An email i recieved!

["Got Disney"]

So, I guess it was lucky for you that your neighbors didn't share your POV on sharing the wealth, huh?

I know...it's different, they chose to give after all. But the irony was just too good to pass up.

Yes you are right it is different....they did not write us a check....and we were not a healthy middle class family. My parents chose to just make it through life instead of bettering it. They chose to drink there days away instead of find the American Dream....

Again this is not about the poor it is about Healthy individuals that have decided that making more moneys is not important to them....that is fine with me and no grips about that......but one should not feel entitled to another's moneys....

It sounds like you had wonderful neighbors who knew how to share.
I am happy they were there for you and your family.

I am still in contact with one family and I have made it very clear to them how wonderfully grateful I am still to this day.

It is also something kind that one family did for another......not the GOV taking from one to give to the other....that is different.


WE send money to my DH mother every month.....we also send moneys to DH brother because he is in danger of being thrown out of his rented home....he does not work....his wife works 2 half days a week.....and they dont want to work anymore than that.....DH years ago had a job lined up for his brother to work as a head Mechanic making $35.00 an hr.....he said no thanks.....he plan did not want to work.

so here we are not wanting to have them on the street so we send them money.....we are enabling them but have no choice unless we want them to be homeless

We as healthy Americans have so much oppertunity that it is staring us in the face....those that choose to reach for the stars go for it...those that dont, dont....

Do you want your children to have the American Dream....well than show them where the stars are and help them reach for them......again giving to the poor is one thing....giving to health able middle class Americans is different.....they should be reaching for htere own stars and not taking someone elses....

 

[rentayenta]

Ridiculous at best.

 

["Got Disney"]

What about those who have an elderly parent that is ill and CAN'T move to where opportunities are better. Or the SAHM who has a developmentally challened or medically disabled child that needs constant care? Or those who tried to get a better education like myself (through a technical college not a regular one) and was unable to find a job in that field after graduation because of the economy? I also worked full to part time and took full or part time classes (depending on the courses available and our finances) as well as being a wife and Mom to 2 DD's. I work at a fast food restaurant for crappy $$ becaue it's a job and I need the flexibility in scheduling because I am once again going back to school next year (real college this time) to be a ....teacher. Doesn't pay great but is something that will provide personal satisfaction as well as more job security. Am I less deserving than a homeless person or someone on welfare BECAUSE I work and am trying to better myself?

I understand the frustration that many feel they worked hard to get to where they are and are in a sense being "punished" for it with higher taxes. But I don't understand the willingness to help those on welfare (some of whom do abuse the system) but balk at the fact that those who are middle class are getting a tax break. Most of whom DO work, pay taxes, have medical insurance (that costs 25% of my DH's gross pay), do not get assistance from anywhere (make too much $$) other than a tax cut at the beginning of the year and while aren't poor definately aren't financially comfortable either. This logic just seems a little skewed to me.

And personally I wouldn't be happy about it but if paying a little more on my taxes or getting less of a check back form the IRS would help balance the buget and reduce our deficit, I would support it. We have to get our country back in better fiscal shape. Otherwise, our children and grandchildren will be paying for the mistakes government made in OUR time. IMHO, at least Obama's plan will make an effort toward this.

I have had every single member living with me at one time or another....I also had there pets. My mom lived with us till she passed and so did my Dad.....they were both in seriuos bad health but being a Nurse I was the best person to care for them..

Also had my troubled niece live with us for 2 years that all she wanted was to get Preg like her other 15 y.o friends were and on Welfare....I wont go into what her life was like except to tell you that is sucked.....she left here this summer to go back home and after teachin gher how to reach for the stars has decided that she wants to be a Labor and Delivery Nurse just like me.....

My parents both lived in Florida and they moved out to us with the help of my brother.

my family and I volunteer at Soup kitchens ..I am on Horse rescue during the Wildfires out here, I volunteer my heart out at the school and donate moneys to the schools as well to get needed supplies.....we are very generous with our moneys.....

As for you having trouble finding work and such....you look else where and move...yes move. DH and I moved from NJ giving up all because we knew that this was where opportunity was at the time. So research, look on the Internet....move where the best Job is....go back to school if that career is not working for you.....if one wants it bad enough one will jump over the excuses that can get in the way....

Obama's redistribution of wealth is not going towards the deficit...it is going to the Middle class.....

My children do not take lightly what we have....they has seen poor and know of the struggles that there DAD and I have been. They also want more and want a life like they have know. They have said that they will not settle for just any job...they already are looking for shooting for the stars....We have shown and told them what the American dream can offer them.....

they want that.....and we want that for them. We have given them the tools and my niece to get it...we have shown by example....and IMO what better way to teach your children than to show them that we have been so low to the ground that we tasted dirt yet we dug our way out and worked hard to reach that American dream.

I am very very proud of what I have accomplished...and have no problem sharing my wealth.....but to the homeless and ill and handicapped and mentally ill and so on....not to Healthy able Middle class Americans...

 

[SplashMtnCrew]

After reading through this thread, I'm wondering something...
If BO is elected will people who currently give to charities stop? Will they say to themselves.. well I'm already giving more and the gov't is taking enough and I'm doing my part. Will people become resentful and stop giving???

 

["Got Disney"]

After reading through this thread, I'm wondering something...
If BO is elected will people who currently give to charities stop? Will they say to themselves.. well I'm already giving more and the gov't is taking enough and I'm doing my part. Will people become resentful and stop giving???

I myself dont think so. And we will still contribute a large amount as we do every year.....but what will happen is that businesses that are higher taxed will pass it on to the consumer....in means of higher prices.....

People need to be fiscally more responsible and not take Disney vacations when they cant pay there rent...or buying a new TV when they already owe $10,000 or more on a charge card...

Living Pay check to pay check is not easy and DH and I had to do that for many many years. We even have a financial plan if we were to loose everything.....we would survive...WHY....because when you have come from as low as you can get as we have....we know that working 2 jobs each if we had to we would do it.....no complaining...we would just do it. Why because we would have to.

When I here people say I cant do this or I cant do that when it is obvious that they can....it is to me just another way of saying ...I dont want to ...not that they cant.....I have been there done that with the worse of circumstances....so with me that ball will never bounce......

 

[marybet]

It just amazes me that we are suddenly calling taxes a "redistribution of wealth". Taxes pay for a lot of things, welfare is just one of them, as is the EIC. We don't get to decide how our taxes are used. Maybe you would all feel better if they enclosed a sheet with the tax forms so that you could decide what areas your taxes went to. For example I might give 1% of mine to pay for wars, 30% to pay for schools, 29% for welfare, and the other 40% to build roads and bridges. That way I am redistributing my own wealth, with the gov't as the middleman.

 

["Got Disney"]

Also I want to add that when I was 18 that summer my girl friend and I hitchhiked from NJ to Ca because we had heard that Ca. had so much to offer.....after being here for that summer...we hitched back....I knew that Ca. was the place to be with loads of opportunity. When I met DH we continued our research of Ca and other states . and we decided that here(Ca.) was the best place to make our dreams come true.....

We were so right.

 

["Got Disney"]

It just amazes me that we are suddenly calling taxes a "redistribution of wealth". Taxes pay for a lot of things, welfare is just one of them, as is the EIC. We don't get to decide how our taxes are used. Maybe you would all feel better if they enclosed a sheet with the tax forms so that you could decide what areas your taxes went to. For example I might give 1% of mine to pay for wars, 30% to pay for schools, 29% for welfare, and the other 40% to build roads and bridges. That way I am redistributing my own wealth, with the gov't as the middleman.

but that is not what we are talking about...we are talking about Obama taking moneys from those making $250,000 and up to give to the middle class.....until he recently changed it he was also going to be giving a check to those that did not even pay taxes.......spreading the wealth around....

 

[Charade]

It just amazes me that we are suddenly calling taxes a "redistribution of wealth". Taxes pay for a lot of things, welfare is just one of them, as is the EIC. We don't get to decide how our taxes are used. Maybe you would all feel better if they enclosed a sheet with the tax forms so that you could decide what areas your taxes went to. For example I might give 1% of mine to pay for wars, 30% to pay for schools, 29% for welfare, and the other 40% to build roads and bridges. That way I am redistributing my own wealth, with the gov't as the middleman.

Taxes ARE in a lot of aspects, redistribution of wealth. Always has been. "Taxes" is just a more palatable term.

In a way we do get some input as to where and how our money is spent by the people we send to Washington.

And it would be nice if we could pick-n-choose where our money is spent. Maybe the clowns in Washington would finally "get it".

 

[Carly_Roach]

Another dumb story written to try to illustrate someone's POV. Hah Hah...the server who had an <Obama><McCain><Nader><whoever> button on his shirt got stiffed on his tip. Haw haw haw knee slap. Haw haw, the college daughter finally got a light-bulb over her head regarding spreading the grades and spreading the wealth.

Tell as many of these as you like. I doubt they'll make any difference on November 4.

 

[L107ANGEL]

Another dumb story written to try to illustrate someone's POV. Hah Hah...the server who had an <Obama><McCain><Nader><whoever> button on his shirt got stiffed on his tip. Haw haw haw knee slap. Haw haw, the college daughter finally got a light-bulb over her head regarding spreading the grades and spreading the wealth.

Tell as many of these as you like. I doubt they'll make any difference on November 4.

Heres your hug

 

[crazyforgoofy]

EITC

The E stands for earned. The I stands for income. How does one get an earned income tax credit if one doesn't earn any income.

 

[Charade]

The E stands for earned. The I stands for income. How does one get an earned income tax credit if one doesn't earn any income.

They don't. But you can earn income, owe no taxes when all is said and done but still get a money back.

Maybe I misunderstood Chris' point.

 

[nosoupforyou]

Tell me about all of the loopholes that the wealthy have been taking advantage of the last several years and I'll show you people who don't pay as much of a percentage of their taxes than middle class people do.

For example, a good friend of mine who is going through a divorce is separated from her husband who was earning upwards of $300k per year or more. He made so much money that when I spoke to him on the phone, he really didn't even know what his true income was. Partly because he paid his workers 1/2 of their salaries under the table, some he paid in full under the table, and paid himself under the table. But, when tax time came around he didn't pay his taxes. Up until last week, he was two years behind on his taxes. He finally had to get his forms filed in order to finalize the divorce. Well, guess what? After paying virtually nothing into the system (because he certainly wasn't paying quarterly social security taxes either), instead of owing a ton of money to the IRS, he's getting back 18K!!!!!!!!! I was so completely outraged at this. He should be owing way more than 18K!

To top it all off, due to a sagging economy, this person had to let many of his employees go, and has seen a decrease in his business, but is still working 6 days a week and while he's not making $300 anymore, he is still making 6 figures and has decided that that is not enough so he is also collecting unemployment right now and also applied to get an EBT card to pay for his groceries, all the while that he is still working (until we turned him in). This is someone who made $300K a year owning his own business.

I know this story does not ring true for most people, but there are a lot of wealthy people out there who are able to skirt paying taxes by hiding money or playing with the books so it doesn't look like income when it is, thus avoiding paying their share of taxes.

You all have it all wrong with your theory of "redistribution" of wealth. This money is not going out specifically to lazy, no good people. It's going to be invested in paying back our country's debt and paying for programs that are needed to help people find that American dream.

Trying to say that everyone in the country can make 250K or more per year is ludicrous. Who would bake your bread? Who would stock your store's grocery shelves? Who would deliver your mail? Who would teach in schools? I could go on and on. Our economy would not be able to function if this were the case. It makes as much sense as does G.W. Bush's the No Child Left Behind Act that said ALL students would be scoring in the 99% by the year 2001 based on standardized testing results. If you know anything about standardized tests, they are normed on a bell-curve, and as the curve changes, the test gets harder. Therefore, it's impossible for everyone to be at that very top tier because the test would not be normed correctly if this were the case.

 

[Purrrrfecta]

I find it so interesting that people are just waking up to EIC. Obama did not event refunds of more than low income earners pay in. Earned Income Credits were implemented when Gerald Ford was in the WH and were voted on and continued through the Reagan and Bush administrations. But now it's all an evil new plot of Obama.

I can't believe people didn't know this. This is just another wonderful talking point the Republicans have put out there that has no merit what so ever.

What I can't understand is how people do not do their homework. I guess they just believe what they want to believe so they can have a rationale for their voting preference.

 

[CowboyCO]

Tell me about all of the loopholes that the wealthy have been taking advantage of the last several years and I'll show you people who don't pay as much of a percentage of their taxes than middle class people do.

For example, a good friend of mine who is going through a divorce is separated from her husband who was earning upwards of $300k per year or more. He made so much money that when I spoke to him on the phone, he really didn't even know what his true income was. Partly because he paid his workers 1/2 of their salaries under the table, some he paid in full under the table, and paid himself under the table. But, when tax time came around he didn't pay his taxes. Up until last week, he was two years behind on his taxes. He finally had to get his forms filed in order to finalize the divorce. Well, guess what? After paying virtually nothing into the system (because he certainly wasn't paying quarterly social security taxes either), instead of owing a ton of money to the IRS, he's getting back 18K!!!!!!!!! I was so completely outraged at this. He should be owing way more than 18K! And you can't collect unemployment if you are self-employed.

To top it all off, due to a sagging economy, this person had to let many of his employees go, and has seen a decrease in his business, but is still working 6 days a week and while he's not making $300 anymore, he is still making 6 figures and has decided that that is not enough so he is also collecting unemployment right now and also applied to get an EBT card to pay for his groceries, all the while that he is still working (until we turned him in). This is someone who made $300K a year owning his own business.

I know this story does not ring true for most people, but there are a lot of wealthy people out there who are able to skirt paying taxes by hiding money or playing with the books so it doesn't look like income when it is, thus avoiding paying their share of taxes.

You all have it all wrong with your theory of "redistribution" of wealth. This money is not going out specifically to lazy, no good people. It's going to be invested in paying back our country's debt and paying for programs that are needed to help people find that American dream.

Trying to say that everyone in the country can make 250K or more per year is ludicrous. Who would bake your bread? Who would stock your store's grocery shelves? Who would deliver your mail? Who would teach in schools? I could go on and on. Our economy would not be able to function if this were the case. It makes as much sense as does G.W. Bush's the No Child Left Behind Act that said ALL students would be scoring in the 99% by the year 2001 based on standardized testing results. If you know anything about standardized tests, they are normed on a bell-curve, and as the curve changes, the test gets harder. Therefore, it's impossible for everyone to be at that very top tier because the test would not be normed correctly if this were the case.

This entire post is why we are in trouble. If he got $18K back, that means he paid in a lot more than $18,000. EIC doesn't apply. Life isn't a bell-curve. Those that are smarter and work harder throughout their life usually make more money than the opposite. How do you know if he is paying his quarterlies? I can tell you he probably has been, because the IRS will come down HARD if you don't. There's also something called the AMT which hits the self-employed in the tail also. When somebody gets a BIG tax return it's because the Government took TOO MUCH OF THEIR MONEY. People who believe that taxes are the governments money are crazy. It's my money and the government is taking it away. If this guy is cheating on his taxes, he'll eventually get tagged, but to use a story like this to support raising taxes is like taking away all entitlement programs because one person abused the system.

Now, with this election we have a promise to tax more and GIVE it to people who pay nothing. That's not the American Dream. It's an American Nightmare!

 

[spaceacewannabe]

Those that are smarter and work harder throughout their life usually make more money than the opposite.

I don't even know what to say to that. We are the only first-world nation that allows the kind of poverty that we have here to continue, that allows so many people to live without health coverage. Not much of an American dream.

 

[Charade]

Tell me about all of the loopholes that the wealthy have been taking advantage of the last several years and I'll show you people who don't pay as much of a percentage of their taxes than middle class people do.

For example, a good friend of mine who is going through a divorce is separated from her husband who was earning upwards of $300k per year or more. He made so much money that when I spoke to him on the phone, he really didn't even know what his true income was. Partly because he paid his workers 1/2 of their salaries under the table, some he paid in full under the table, and paid himself under the table. But, when tax time came around he didn't pay his taxes. Up until last week, he was two years behind on his taxes. He finally had to get his forms filed in order to finalize the divorce. Well, guess what? After paying virtually nothing into the system (because he certainly wasn't paying quarterly social security taxes either), instead of owing a ton of money to the IRS, he's getting back 18K!!!!!!!!! I was so completely outraged at this. He should be owing way more than 18K!

To top it all off, due to a sagging economy, this person had to let many of his employees go, and has seen a decrease in his business, but is still working 6 days a week and while he's not making $300 anymore, he is still making 6 figures and has decided that that is not enough so he is also collecting unemployment right now and also applied to get an EBT card to pay for his groceries, all the while that he is still working (until we turned him in). This is someone who made $300K a year owning his own business.

That's not an example of a loophole, that's tax evasion. Quite different.

Trying to say that everyone in the country can make 250K or more per year is ludicrous. Who would bake your bread? Who would stock your store's grocery shelves? Who would deliver your mail? Who would teach in schools? I could go on and on. Our economy would not be able to function if this were the case. It makes as much sense as does G.W. Bush's the No Child Left Behind Act that said ALL students would be scoring in the 99% by the year 2001 based on standardized testing results. If you know anything about standardized tests, they are normed on a bell-curve, and as the curve changes, the test gets harder. Therefore, it's impossible for everyone to be at that very top tier because the test would not be normed correctly if this were the case.

Not everyone has it within them to make a very lucrative living but the potential is there. That is the American Dream. It's up to you to make it and for the government to stay out of the way as much as possible. They should not be in the business of "leveling the playing field".

 

[CowboyCO]

I don't even know what to say to that. We are the only first-world nation that allows the kind of poverty that we have here to continue, that allows so many people to live without health coverage. Not much of an American dream.

America has the richest "poverty-stricken" people in the world. The next time you are in Tijuana and somebody hits you up for $$ on the street, ask them if you can use their cell phone. They don't have one. Many don't have indoor plumbing, healthcare, and are lucky if they don't have dirt floors. They don't have TVs, cars, cable, government welfare, food stamps.

All I want is equal opportunity and equal reponsibility. I paid for college. I was poor, worked and ate Ramen half the time, but I did it. It took me 8 years to pay off the loans, but I did it. All I needed was the opportunity. The rest is up to me. When somebody is in deep doo, you don't give them money. You give them a shovel and let them dig.

 

[Goofyluver]

Perhaps you'll like this one better.


A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so
many others her age, she considered herself to be a very liberal
Democrat, and among other liberal ideals, was very much in favor of
higher taxes to support more government programs, in other words,
redistribution of wealth.

She was deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch
Republican, a feeling she openly expressed.

Based on the lectures that she had participated in, and the occasional
chat with a professor, she felt that her father had for years harbored
an evil, selfish desire to keep what he thought should be his.

One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to higher
taxes on the rich and the need for more government programs.

The self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be
the truth and she indicated so to her father.

He asked how she was doing in school.

Taken aback, she answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and
let him know that it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was
taking a very difficult course load and was constantly studying, which
left her no time to go out and party like other people she knew.

She didn't even have time for a boyfriend, and didn't have time for
partying with friends because she spent all her time studying.

Her father listened and then asked, 'How is your friend Audrey doing?'

She replied, 'Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes are easy
classes, she never studies, and she barely has a 2.0 GPA. She is so
popular on campus; college for her is a blast. She's always invited to
all the parties and lots of times she doesn't even show up for her
classes because she's too hung over.'

Her wise father asked his daughter, 'Why don't you go to the Dean's
office and ask him to deduct 1.0 off your GPA and give it to your
friend who only has a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and
certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA.'

The daughter, visibly shocked by her father's suggestion, angrily
fired back, That's insane!

How could that be fair???

I've worked really hard for my grades! I've invested a lot of time,
and a lot of hard work!

Audrey has done next to nothing toward her degree. She played while I
worked my tail off!'

The father sheepishly smiled, winked and said gently, 'Welcome to the
Republican party.'

Right.

Because choosing to party your way through school is the same as working your *** off and not being able to make ends meet.

Choosing to drink your way through college is the same as working day after day after day and yet you still aren't able to provide your family with basic needs.

Okay.

I've been "schooled".