An article on "Does DVC save you money?"

[smisale]

Just heard HH passed ROFR got it at a hugh SAVING.yes saved at lot of money that’s money in the bank great savings. Thank for the advice havoc315

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

You just said it yourself — you’re not saving. You’re spending the same. You just are getting more. Which is a great deal, since you like the more that you’re getting.

Ok, I see what you are saying. But the reality is that we would have increased our vacation budget. We were taking 3+weeks of vacations and were ready to up it to 4+. We did it on the same budget with dvc. 2 weeks of cruising (not dcl) and 1+ weeks changed to 2+ weeks at wdw.

 

[havoc315]

I know right! Same thing with selling. Everyone acts like everyone should own this thing for 40 years, like it's two labradors or something! Even the posts about what to buy almost never have an exit strategy, like you're going to be using your kid's 3.5 days off from their stressful, first job out of college to ride Jungle Cruise. I always planned to sell when princesses outgrew it, and resale DVC is an AWESOME way to hit it and quit it.

Agreed in part. But I also see lots of the other extreme -- People entirely counting on re-sale after a set amount of time, and relying on getting a certain amount back in re-sale in their calculations to prove it's worth it. The ability to re-sell is a really nice fallback option. And in the past, it's really worked out well for most people. But as they say with investments, past performance is not a guarantee of future performance. With the addition of re-sale restrictions, many contracts expiring, unknown future changes in travel and vacation patterns/culture.... there really is no way to know what kind of re-sale value will be maintained long-term in DVC. So I'd say nobody should *count* on re-sale in their calculations.

Personally, I foresee keeping DVC for the full 50 years (well, transferring it to my kids). But, I'll be honest and admit that's far from a certainty. If in 10 years, we find we really aren't using it, we will sell it. And I can imagine lots of people who assumed they would only keep it for 10 years, finding they want to keep owning it even after those 10 years.
It's hard enough to map out the next 5 years. I don't think anybody can truly be 100% confident in their vacation plans 10.. 20... 30 years in advance.

 

[havoc315]

Ok, I see what you are saying. But the reality is that we would have increased our vacation budget. We were taking 3+weeks of vacations and were ready to up it to 4+. We did it on the same budget with dvc. 2 weeks of cruising (not dcl) and 1+ weeks changed to 2+ weeks at wdw.

Yes, and we are partially just talking semantics here. But that's where I'm delineating between a "great deal" -- Getting more for your money.
Versus actual "saving" -- Being able to retire early or afford your kid's college tuition thanks to buying DVC!

 

[4luv2cdisney]

@havoc315 I just think your requirements for what is saving money is almost impossible to achieve.

If I buy a loaf of bread from Meijer because they sell it for $2 vs $3 at Fresh Thyme, I'm not factoring in their return policy or the fact that one is 1/4 mile further from my house - however usually less busy so I get out of there quicker thus saving me time, etc and so on. How would I even equate that to dollars? Calculate my gas? My time? At what rate? I get paid a pretty hefty hourly wage. HOwever, I am limited on the # of hours I work, so I couldn't just go to work and get paid instead of going to the grocery store. I don't get paid to sit on Disboards and make comments all day, or clean my house - or wait! maybe there is a $ amount I could put on that! Maybe I am saving money by cleaning my own house, so my time is worth $X? Or no, I'm not saving money, I would be wasting money by paying someone else...? It's just all too confusing. Confusing and individual.

For me, I saved $1 on a loaf of bread. Period.

I will however be sure to show these posts to my husband to show him that I might not be the single most difficult person in the world to deal with when buying a new car (or anything else he wants) Apparently, some of you overthink even more than I do!

Personally, I will never ever ever EVER worry about my $10K DVC purchase that allows me to book a room at Boardwalk for about $130/night and saved me $1400 per set of APs (even if I never see that deal again).

If I have to sell it someday for $1, so be it.

OOPS! Maybe someone doesn't think I saved $1400 on APs because technically I wouldn't heve ever bought them without DVC because I wouldn't have been eligible to buy them. And they do have blackout days, but they don't affect me whatsoever, but.. but.... but.... my head hurts.

 

[havoc315]

Just heard HH passed ROFR got it at a hugh SAVING.yes saved at lot of money that’s money in the bank great savings. Thank for the advice havoc315

I'm confused. You are being paid to take HH? Unless they are paying you... it's not money going into your bank, it's money coming out of your bank.

 

[smisale]

I'm confused. You are being paid to take HH? Unless they are paying you... it's not money going into your bank, it's money coming out of your bank.

Yes they paid me I am so blessed probably the only one this is happened too

 

[Meglen]

If you were 100% gonna buy a 500$ Nicknack you looked around you price checked everywhere else, that 500$ is now in your head out of your bank account. Last min someone gives you a coupon for 30% off now that same item is only gonna cost you 350$. Yes you still bought the item but you were ready to pay at the higher price so you "saved" 150$.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

@havoc315 I just think your requirements for what is saving money is almost impossible to achieve.

If I buy a loaf of bread from Meijer because they sell it for $2 vs $3 at Fresh Thyme, I'm not factoring in their return policy or the fact that one is 1/4 mile further from my house - however usually less busy so I get out of there quicker thus saving me time, etc and so on. How would I even equate that to dollars? Calculate my gas? My time? At what rate? I get paid a pretty hefty hourly wage. HOwever, I am limited on the # of hours I work, so I couldn't just go to work and get paid instead of going to the grocery store. I don't get paid to sit on Disboards and make comments all day, or clean my house - or wait! maybe there is a $ amount I could put on that! Maybe I am saving money by cleaning my own house, so my time is worth $X? Or no, I'm not saving money, I would be wasting money by paying someone else...? It's just all too confusing. Confusing and individual.

For me, I saved $1 on a loaf of bread. Period.

I will however be sure to show these posts to my husband to show him that I might not be the single most difficult person in the world to deal with when buying a new car (or anything else he wants) Apparently, some of you overthink even more than I do!

Personally, I will never ever ever EVER worry about my $10K DVC purchase that allows me to book a room at Boardwalk for about $130/night and saved me $1400 per set of APs (even if I never see that deal again).

If I have to sell it someday for $1, so be it.

OOPS! Maybe someone doesn't think I saved $1400 on APs because technically I wouldn't heve ever bought them without DVC because I wouldn't have been eligible to buy them. And they do have blackout days, but they don't affect me whatsoever, but.. but.... but.... my head hurts.

You are saving money by cleaning your own house lol. And almost everyone I know who has someone else clean their house has had something of worth “disappear,” so you are saving that way too. You are also saving on accounting costs if you are paying your house cleaner as an employee and fail to pay social security for your employee and get audited by the IRS, or just get audited even if you do pay the SS but they want to be sure you did it “correctly.” You’re also saving if the house cleaner gets injured on the job and claims on your homeowners and your insurance rate goes up because of it. Never mind the deductible you had to pay when they claimed on it. The savings possibilities from cleaning your own house are endless.

 

[havoc315]

If you were 100% gonna buy a 500$ Nicknack you looked around you price checked everywhere else, that 500$ is now in your head out of your bank account. Last min someone gives you a coupon for 30% off now that same item is only gonna cost you 350$. Yes you still bought the item but you were ready to pay at the higher price so you "saved" 150$.

Exactly -- That's if you get a coupon for the EXACT same item you were already going to buy.

But now say, the coupon has conditions attached: 30% off but no refunds. Or, 30% off, but you don't get the original packaging. Or, 30% off, when you buy 2 instead of 1.
It has to be the exact same item, with absolutely no conditions, changes or restrictions. Once you add a restriction or condition, it's no longer a savings. It's a different product.

If I buy a Toyota instead of a Mercedes, I didn't "save" $50,000 -- I just bought a cheaper car.

 

[Lee Matthews]

Is there a simple calculation to figure out what the $ cost would be for a resort stay but using your DVC points?

Someone said to me the number of points for the duration of your stay multiplied by the point cost of annual dues?

Im just trying to get a real world cost comparison from paying Out of pocket

 

[havoc315]

@havoc315 I just think your requirements for what is saving money is almost impossible to achieve.

Huh? I achieve it all the time.... Every month, I put money into a retirement account, I put money into college savings accounts for my kids. That's saving money.

Spending money is not saving money.

It's very rare to "save" money while spending. It is virtually impossible. You may "save" in the sense that you bought X, and X is cheaper than Y.
So I saved money when I bought a Lexus for $75,000.... since I didn't buy the $80,000 Mercedes!

If you could buy DVC for $30,000 -- And then re-sell is the exact same day for $40,000 -- Then I suppose you saved $10,000!
But if you bought it for $30,000 -- And you can't immediately get more than $30,000 for it -- Then you bought something worth $30,000... That's paying what something is worth. Not saving.

Put another way --- Would you give me $10,000 today, if I promised to give you $10,500 in 50 years? Why not? Don't you want to "save" $500?

 

[havoc315]

Is there a simple calculation to figure out what the $ cost would be for a resort stay but using your DVC points?

Someone said to me the number of points for the duration of your stay multiplied by the point cost of annual dues?

Im just trying to get a real world cost comparison from paying Out of pocket

Yes and no. It's easy enough to look at the rack rate for a room that is sold as both cash and DVC. It's not too hard to factor in an actual or potential discount to the rack rate.

The much harder part comes with:
1-- How do you value that you can pay cash and book just weeks in advance, you can get fully refunded just weeks in advance with cancellation. But with DVC, you usually have to book months and months in advance. And "refund/cancellation" can in many cases be much more difficult.
2 -- The "cash" room comes with daily mousekeeping, the DVC room does not.
3 -- You pay for the cash room per trip. If you skip a trip for a couple years, you don't pay. Want a nicer hotel 1 year, you pay more. Want a cheaper hotel 1 year, you pay less. And you never have to put out 1 massive chunk at 1 time. With DVC, you have to pay most of the cost far in advance. So now shock -- You're getting that January 2065 room at a big discount! But you have to pay for it 44 years in advance to get the discount.

 

[havoc315]

You are saving money by cleaning your own house lol.

No... You're only saving in comparison to someone who pays to have their house cleaned.
And even then, you may or may not be saving, because time is money. So if I have to use my TIME to clean my house.... The question is whether my TIME is worth more or less than the cost of paying someone to clean my house.

If I have to give up my side job that pays $100 per hour to clean my house... And it would cost $20 per hour to find someone to clean my house, then I'm LOSING $80 per hour by cleaning my own house.

There are 2 types of saving: Relative saving and Absolute/objective saving.
Relative saving is: "I paid less by doing/buying X vs doing/buying Y." Under "relative saving" then ANY action can be defined as a saving. I spent $100,000 on a Mercedes! But I saved $200,000 since I didn't buy the Rolls-Royce!

Absolute/objective savings is: I put $X in the bank instead of spending it.

 

[Lee Matthews]

Oh of course there's a lot of factors like the duration with DVC, less Housekeeping etc, but on a direct comparison of say 2 weeks in July, would the calculation ive been told remotely make sense?

 

[4luv2cdisney]

Huh? I achieve it all the time.... Every month, I put money into a retirement account, I put money into college savings accounts for my kids. That's saving money.

Spending money is not saving money.

It's very rare to "save" money while spending. It is virtually impossible. You may "save" in the sense that you bought X, and X is cheaper than Y.
So I saved money when I bought a Lexus for $75,000.... since I didn't buy the $80,000 Mercedes!

If you could buy DVC for $30,000 -- And then re-sell is the exact same day for $40,000 -- Then I suppose you saved $10,000!
But if you bought it for $30,000 -- And you can't immediately get more than $30,000 for it -- Then you bought something worth $30,000... That's paying what something is worth. Not saving.

Put another way --- Would you give me $10,000 today, if I promised to give you $10,500 in 50 years? Why not? Don't you want to "save" $500?

Saving is not ONLY putting money away for future use.

Saving is also paying less for an item or experience vs full price or by substitution of one item for another.

From Merriam-Webster:

2 a: to put aside as a store or reserve : ACCUMULATE
//saving money for emergencies
b: to spend less by
//save 25 percent

Both definitions of save are valid. So, yes you can save money while spending money.

I would never put money I saved on vacation choices into the savings accounts you are defining. Those are separate funds. If I save money on my hotel room, I have more $ in my vacation savings for more vacation experiences.

Plus at 46 yo I've paid for my kids college and have my retirement funds in place. I also have an emergency fund, a fund for my next car, a fund for house repairs, etc etc. So, they are entirely separate funds and concerns.

My focus is saving money on the things I am spending money on.
Because, if I save money on my kitchen countertops via a sale, I have more left in my household account. So the two are related. But it also doesn't mean I'm not going to just spend it on something else.

 

[princesscinderella]

Huh? I achieve it all the time.... Every month, I put money into a retirement account, I put money into college savings accounts for my kids. That's saving money.

Spending money is not saving money.

It's very rare to "save" money while spending. It is virtually impossible. You may "save" in the sense that you bought X, and X is cheaper than Y.
So I saved money when I bought a Lexus for $75,000.... since I didn't buy the $80,000 Mercedes!

If you could buy DVC for $30,000 -- And then re-sell is the exact same day for $40,000 -- Then I suppose you saved $10,000!
But if you bought it for $30,000 -- And you can't immediately get more than $30,000 for it -- Then you bought something worth $30,000... That's paying what something is worth. Not saving.

Put another way --- Would you give me $10,000 today, if I promised to give you $10,500 in 50 years? Why not? Don't you want to "save" $500?

If you don’t like the word “saved” in regards to DVC I’m going to refer to it as a “discount” on deluxe rooms. I have greatly enjoyed my resale discounted DVC points for many vacations and time with my family that is more valuable than money. The bickering about semantics is ridiculous.

 

[Bing Showei]

smisale---$95-$18100-185-AKV-Mar-0/19, 0/20, 0/21, 185/22- sent 9/30, passed 11/5

I can’t say enough on how much I have saved with this purchase math does not lie.

Just heard HH passed ROFR got it at a hugh SAVING.yes saved at lot of money that’s money in the bank great savings. Thank for the advice havoc315

Maybe you can talk me through this so I understand your math a little better.

Based on what you've shared on these boards, these are your only contracts. Ignoring the HHI contract for moment (which is a whole other ball of wax). On the AKV contract, you have no points until 2022. So you've stayed zero days on your points. You have a March UY so you technically won't even be able to book anything with your full points for another five weeks or so. You've paid $18,100 dollars today, and you have committed to paying Disney dues on those points every year for the next 35 years regardless of where life may take you.

In December this year, you'll be hit with an additional $1,500 in dues. All told, on the AKV contract alone, you'll have put out about $20,000.00 on something you haven't stayed on. After your first one week stay over a year from now, you will have paid about $2,800.00/night. After your second week in 2023, you will have paid $1,500/night. And so on and so on.

I'm not using this calculation to be obtuse. Having bought into the Disney's timeshare system myself, I understand the long term savings I may realize vs. paying cash. But each of us does so at the assumption of a lot of risk; risk that Disney is all too happy to hand off to every last Disney timeshare owner.

While I don't subscribe to havoc315's austere qualifications for savings, his bigger point should not be lost in the back and forth over bread and semantics. And that is that Disney's timeshare first and foremost benefits Disney. As a PP stated, "the house always wins" is apt. For most of us, it will be more symbiotic in that we benefit from staying there more often which we all all apparently value by virtue of owning a Disney timeshare. Or we'll stay in nicer accommodations than we normally stay in. That is also a benefit.

But in terms of dollars and savings, we potentially save because we buy in bulk today. Until we consume the bulk of those points, our savings are only potential. And in the interim, we assume significant risk in exchange.

There is risk that we no longer enjoy Disney in 12 years. There is the risk we face catastrophic life changes in 3 months. There is risk Disney changes the park going experience to focus on content delivery which better serves the bottom line. There is risk Disney changes its timeshare product to a point where it no longer resembles what we bought into.

Regardless of whether or not any or all of these things happen, you are on the hook to pay dues for the life of your contract. That may eventually mean selling your contract, but until you actually do your timeshare remains a financial liability.

The reason some of us on these boards assume the buzzkill role and hammer home the risk elements is in part to balance the optimistic, sometimes Mickey Math justifications for buying a Disney timeshare. If all the "savings" of owning DVC is necessary to make buying make sense, make sure assumption of all the risks makes sense as well.

 

[Lumpy1106]

Far be it for me to de-rail a really good thread tangent, but you guys realize the article that the OP linked to never once mentioned the price of bread, right?

Carry on...

 

[havoc315]

Saving is not ONLY putting money away for future use.

Saving is also paying less for an item or experience vs full price or by substitution of one item for another.

From Merriam-Webster:

2 a: to put aside as a store or reserve : ACCUMULATE
//saving money for emergencies
b: to spend less by
//save 25 percent

Both definitions of save are valid. So, yes you can save money while spending money.

As I said -- those are 2 very different types of saving. One is absolute saving -- Definition "A"
The other is "relative" saving -- But that's amorphous and can be used for ANY purchase.
Kohls has every item in the store marked at 30% off, ALL THE TIME! Woohoo... so I'm saving 30% from shopping there.... Except, the 30% off is the REGULAR Price in actuality.
I "save" $200,000 by substituting a Lexus for a Rolls Royce!
"I saved $30,000 by buying DVC because if I took vacations to the same hotel but without the booking windows and without having to pay 30 years in advance... then I would have paid $30,000 more!"
"I saved $30,000 by NOT buying DVC, because I found a timeshare even nicer, right next door to the DVC, for $30,000 less!"
"I saved $60,000 by not buying DVC... and substituting Staycations!"
"I saved by paying cash for my Disney rooms instead of DVC.. because I looked for the best discounts, and I adjusted my number of nights based on my budget, and because I didn't feel forced to go to Disney every year!"

ie -- the "savings" you are talking about for DVC are entirely subjective. "I feel like I saved money, because I'm personally comparing it to something different that costs more."

And in the same way as buying a Lexus instead of a Rolls Royce, I "save" by paying for my vacations and locking them in 50 years in advance, with lots of booking restrictions, less flexibility, etc. I'm "saving" by buying something that costs less.. because it is objectively worth less. (But subjectively, it's worth it to me, which is why I buy it).

Let me give you an example: The regular rate at the "Havoc 315 Hotel" is $300 per night. Sometimes, when the season is slow, I charge as low as $270 per night.
I'm willing to give you a room in my hotel for October 12, 2038, for $265, right now!!!!
Will you book it?!? Why not!!!! It's SAVING money!! Don't you want to SAVE money! If you book it now, you're going to save at least $5... possibly up to $35!!!!

Or maybe... you don't really want to decide until October 2038, whether you want to stay in my hotel. The $5 discount isn't subjectively worth it for you to give up your decision 37 years in advance. It's not truly a savings.