Americans and Canadians culture Q&A Thread.

[Buzz Rules]

The British won the war of 1812.

The Treaty of Gent would say otherwise….,

 

[GreatLakes]

The British won the war of 1812.

Andrew Jackson won the war of 1812 after it was technically over, at least that is what the Battle of New Orleans effectively accomplished for history.

 

[declansdad]

From Ron Dale’s (acclaimed War of 1812 historian) very clear explanation as to who won the War of 1812.

Britain’s prime goals were to defeat Napoleon, to preserve British North America and to once again bring the United States to the negotiating table. The end result was: Napoleon was defeated; the Americans were at the negotiations; and British North America remained intact.

Britain was a winner.

British North America/Canadian goals were to defend their homes against American invaders; to remain loyal to the British crown and to thwart annexation by the Americans. Although a few thousand lives were lost and houses, farms and mills burned by the Americans, the Maritimes as well as Upper and Lower Canada successfully resisted American invasions in 1812, 1813 and 1814.

Canada was a winner.

The goals of the Haudenosaunee and the Seven Nations of Canada were to defend their homes in Upper and Lower Canada, as well as to retain their independence and sovereignty. These allies of Britain were successful in defending their homes but gradually lost much of their power, influence and independence in the two decades after the war.

For the War of 1812, at least, they were winners.

Western Indigenous Nations were also allies of Britain. Their goals were to defend their territory from westward expansion by the United States and to establish their own sovereign native territory that would be acknowledged and respected by both Britain and the United States. While they fought hard to achieve their aims, the Treaty of Ghent left the Western Indigenous Nations’ lands in control of the United States and Britain resolved not to interfere in American dealings with the Indigenous people. This led to the loss of their lands.

The Western Indigenous Nations were not winners.

The leaders of the United States of America had several goals in mind when they declared war on Britain: To force Britain to rescind the Orders in Council (an order forbidding all trade by any nation with France); to halt the impressment of American citizens into the Royal Navy; to stop the British from supporting the Western Indigenous Nations to thwart U.S. plans for western expansion; to force Britain to accept American sovereignty and, finally, to capture all of Canada and drive Britain out of North America.

The outcome for the United States is quite different than one might expect.

The British had rescinded the Orders in Council on June 23, 1812, before learning of the American declaration of war against them. The Americans did not achieve this goal in the War of 1812.

Impressment of American sailors continued until France and Napoleon were defeated in 1815. The Royal Navy was then reduced in size and there was no longer a need to impress sailors. Note: this impressment issue was not even mentioned in the Treaty of Ghent. So this American goal was not achieved by the Americans through the War of 1812.

As for the Western Indigenous Nations, contrary to popular belief, the British were actually trying to prevent them from declaring war on the United States. It could be considered an American “win” when the British determined to not interfere after the war in any Indigenous issues in the Ohio Valley.

The British did recognize American sovereignty before the war but violated it in their war against the French. Once again, the war had no impact on this sovereignty issue.

The Americans suffered embarrassing defeats in 1812, 1813 and 1814 and failed to annex Upper and Lower Canada or the Maritimes.

The British were not driven from North America.

Final conclusion: the United States was not a winner in the War of 1812.

 

[bcla]

From Ron Dale’s (acclaimed War of 1812 historian) very clear explanation as to who won the War of 1812.

Britain’s prime goals were to defeat Napoleon, to preserve British North America and to once again bring the United States to the negotiating table. The end result was: Napoleon was defeated; the Americans were at the negotiations; and British North America remained intact.

Britain was a winner.

British North America/Canadian goals were to defend their homes against American invaders; to remain loyal to the British crown and to thwart annexation by the Americans. Although a few thousand lives were lost and houses, farms and mills burned by the Americans, the Maritimes as well as Upper and Lower Canada successfully resisted American invasions in 1812, 1813 and 1814.

Canada was a winner.

The goals of the Haudenosaunee and the Seven Nations of Canada were to defend their homes in Upper and Lower Canada, as well as to retain their independence and sovereignty. These allies of Britain were successful in defending their homes but gradually lost much of their power, influence and independence in the two decades after the war.

For the War of 1812, at least, they were winners.

Western Indigenous Nations were also allies of Britain. Their goals were to defend their territory from westward expansion by the United States and to establish their own sovereign native territory that would be acknowledged and respected by both Britain and the United States. While they fought hard to achieve their aims, the Treaty of Ghent left the Western Indigenous Nations’ lands in control of the United States and Britain resolved not to interfere in American dealings with the Indigenous people. This led to the loss of their lands.

The Western Indigenous Nations were not winners.

The leaders of the United States of America had several goals in mind when they declared war on Britain: To force Britain to rescind the Orders in Council (an order forbidding all trade by any nation with France); to halt the impressment of American citizens into the Royal Navy; to stop the British from supporting the Western Indigenous Nations to thwart U.S. plans for western expansion; to force Britain to accept American sovereignty and, finally, to capture all of Canada and drive Britain out of North America.

The outcome for the United States is quite different than one might expect.

The British had rescinded the Orders in Council on June 23, 1812, before learning of the American declaration of war against them. The Americans did not achieve this goal in the War of 1812.

Impressment of American sailors continued until France and Napoleon were defeated in 1815. The Royal Navy was then reduced in size and there was no longer a need to impress sailors. Note: this impressment issue was not even mentioned in the Treaty of Ghent. So this American goal was not achieved by the Americans through the War of 1812.

As for the Western Indigenous Nations, contrary to popular belief, the British were actually trying to prevent them from declaring war on the United States. It could be considered an American “win” when the British determined to not interfere after the war in any Indigenous issues in the Ohio Valley.

The British did recognize American sovereignty before the war but violated it in their war against the French. Once again, the war had no impact on this sovereignty issue.

The Americans suffered embarrassing defeats in 1812, 1813 and 1814 and failed to annex Upper and Lower Canada or the Maritimes.

The British were not driven from North America.

Final conclusion: the United States was not a winner in the War of 1812.

Not unexpected from a Canadian historian. There are of course different views.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/hist...812-quite-differently-americans-do-180951852/​

For people like me, who have got their flags and wars mixed up, I think it should be pointed out that there may have been only one War of 1812, but there are four distinct versions of it—the American, the British, the Canadian and the Native American. Moreover, among Americans, the chief actors in the drama, there are multiple variations of the versions, leading to widespread disagreement about the causes, the meaning and even the outcome of the war.​

*******​

Not surprisingly, the Canadian history of the war began with a completely different set of heroes and villains. If the U.S. has its Paul Revere, Canada has Shawnee chief Tecumseh, who lost his life defending Upper Canada against the Americans, and Laura Secord, who struggled through almost 20 miles of swampland in 1813 to warn British and Canadian troops of an imminent attack. For Canadians, the war was, and remains, the cornerstone of nationhood, brought about by unbridled U.S. aggression. Although they acknowledge there were two theaters of war—at sea and on land—it is the successful repulse of the ten U.S. incursions between 1812 and 1814 that have received the most attention.​

​

By contrast, the British historiography of the War of 1812 has generally consisted of short chapters squeezed between the grand sweeping narratives of the Napoleonic Wars. The justification for this begins with the numbers: Roughly 20,000 on all sides died fighting the War of 1812 compared with over 3.5 million in the Napoleonic. But the brevity with which the war has been treated has allowed a persistent myth to grow about British ignorance. In the 19th century, the Canadian historian William Kingsford was only half-joking when he commented, “The events of the War of 1812 have not been forgotten in England for they have never been known there.” In the 20th, another Canadian historian remarked that the War of 1812 is “an episode in history that makes everybody happy, because everybody interprets it differently...the English are happiest of all, because they don’t even know it happened.”​

https://www.harrisonpl.org/staff-re...-war-nobody-lost-and-the-war-nobody-remembers

 

[Buzz Rules]

Canadians, what American tradition are you confused by?

 

[Aladora]

Canadians, what American tradition are you confused by?

This might open a big ol' can of worms but patriotism. I mean, I love Canada and I am really proud of being Canadian but some Americans take that to an extreme that I just don't get.

 

[prairie_girl]

This might open a big ol' can of worms but patriotism. I mean, I love Canada and I am really proud of being Canadian but some Americans take that to an extreme that I just don't get.

I find it really weird when they say I’m so proud I was born in Texas (for example). Why are you proud when you had zero say in the matter? It’s like saying I’m proud that I have blue eyes. Genetics did that, not me.

 

[Aladora]

I find it really weird when they say I’m so proud I was born in Texas (for example). Why are you proud when you had zero say in the matter? It’s like saying I’m proud that I have blue eyes. Genetics did that, not me.

When I say that I am proud to be Canadian, I mean that I feel good about being a member of a country that has such a good worldwide reputation if that makes sense?

 

[Buzz Rules]

This might open a big ol' can of worms but patriotism. I mean, I love Canada and I am really proud of being Canadian but some Americans take that to an extreme that I just don't get.

Simply put, it started in the A.R. due to the fact that most in authority thought of us as separate colonist vs equal British citizens. It was what moved the idea that we were different. Without getting political, the military tributes at sporting events is part of it, along with American exceptionalism in major events (Olympics/World Cups) because of events involving us in the world.

 

[Buzz Rules]

I find it really weird when they say I’m so proud I was born in Texas (for example). Why are you proud when you had zero say in the matter? It’s like saying I’m proud that I have blue eyes. Genetics did that, not me.

Each state has its own culture and values that make them unique. We are a big country, so state uniqueness is a thing.

 

[Buzz Rules]

When I say that I am proud to be Canadian, I mean that I feel good about being a member of a country that has such a good worldwide reputation if that makes sense?

This is part of where the U.S. passion comes from (our perspective of our country may not be the perspective of the world).

 

[GreatLakes]

This might open a big ol' can of worms but patriotism. I mean, I love Canada and I am really proud of being Canadian but some Americans take that to an extreme that I just don't get.

I'm proud that we were a colony that rebelled, gained independence, and became a superpower. Take a look at most other former colonies and they are either third world countries or still have some official tie back to their former colonizing power like Canada does with England.

I'm proud of our role in the world and history. Putting a man on the moon as an example.

We aren't perfect but I'm glad I don't live anywhere else

 

[Buzz Rules]

I'm proud that we were a colony that rebelled, gained independence, and became a superpower. Take a look at most other former colonies and they are either third world countries or still have some official tie back to their former colonizing power like Canada does with England.

I'm proud of our role in the world and history. Putting a man on the moon as an example.

We aren't perfect but I'm glad I don't live anywhere else

This.

 

[ronandannette]

I'm proud that we were a colony that rebelled, gained independence, and became a superpower. Take a look at most other former colonies and they are either third world countries or still have some official tie back to their former colonizing power like Canada does with England.

I'm proud of our role in the world and history. Putting a man on the moon as an example.

We aren't perfect but I'm glad I don't live anywhere else

(Asking sincerely) Can you mention a few ways your quality of life in the US has benefited from this, as opposed to our quality of life here in Canada?

 

[GreatLakes]

(Asking sincerely) Can you mention a few ways your quality of life in the US has benefited from this, as opposed to our quality of life here in Canada?

I'm not sure it is a quality of life issue, it is an independence issue. I don't want to be politically tied to any other nation at that close of a level.

 

[CdnCarrie]

Canadians, what American tradition are you confused by?

Not a tradition but I'm confused why the USA doesn't care enough about its people to implement policies that all developed countries have in place like a proper maternity leave program. Even mat leave threads on here over the years (remember a doozy from about 10 years ago) when Americans are like "why should I pay for others to have kids" attitude.

I'm proud of the fact that we live in a country that helps their people and that we have those lovely ties to England.

And the Pledge of Allegiance seems like weird cultish thing.

 

[Moliphino]

Not a tradition but I'm confused why the USA doesn't care enough about its people to implement policies that all developed countries have in place like a proper maternity leave program. Even mat leave threads on here over the years (remember a doozy from about 10 years ago) when Americans are like "why should I pay for others to have kids" attitude.

I'm proud of the fact that we live in a country that helps their people and that we have those lovely ties to England.

And the Pledge of Allegiance seems like weird cultish thing.

Some of it is politicians taking money from large corporations (including healthcare and insurance companies) and then legislating in their favor instead of individuals. It's all about money.

 

[Buzz Rules]

Not a tradition but I'm confused why the USA doesn't care enough about its people to implement policies that all developed countries have in place like a proper maternity leave program. Even mat leave threads on here over the years (remember a doozy from about 10 years ago) when Americans are like "why should I pay for others to have kids" attitude.

I'm proud of the fact that we live in a country that helps their people and that we have those lovely ties to England.

And the Pledge of Allegiance seems like weird cultish thing.

In the hope that this thread doesn’t get shut down, taxes is the main answer to the first question (look online to see how much we pay for our military alone). As to the pledge, that started in the 1950’s due to the 1st Cold War.

 

[CdnCarrie]

Each state has its own culture and values that make them unique. We are a big country, so state uniqueness is a thing.

That's no different from Canada. Toronto is very different from Yellowknife, Northwest Territories - or New Brunswick vs Alberta.

I'm not sure it is a quality of life issue, it is an independence issue. I don't want to be politically tied to any other nation at that close of a level.

What kind of ties do you think we still have?

In the hope that this thread doesn’t get shut down, taxes is the main answer to the first question (look online to see how much we pay for our military alone). As to the pledge, that started in the 1950’s due to the 1st Cold War.

Interesting. Didn't know it only started in the 50s. I thought it was really old.
But the culture around mat leave is a great example of the difference in culture between the countries. It shows the vast gap in our collective ideology.

 

[Buzz Rules]

(Asking sincerely) Can you mention a few ways your quality of life in the US has benefited from this, as opposed to our quality of life here in Canada?

We don’t have the Queen of England as any sort of figure head. Our leaders are not of noble birthright or particular status. Our country’s attitude is more of if you work the hardest, you should gain the most (whether this is right is up for debate). It’s a capitalistic attitude vs a socialistic one.