Am I wrong? (School related) *Updated*

[Gina]

We did the SAME thing in my high school 15 years ago. It's basically extra-credit, not a grade on a test or anything. I really don't see the big deal. The kids in that class did in fact earn those "lowest" grades. There is nothing wrong with choosing not to participate in this extra credit assignment.

It wasn't for extra credit, it was to drop a grade. There's a difference.

Quite honestly, I can't believe someone would make a stink about it- there's always got to be one person that ruins things for everyone! And the whole socialism thing is quite a stretch.

What did I ruin and for whom?

 

[Mickeyluver37]

It wasn't for extra credit, it was to drop a grade. There's a difference.






What did I ruin and for whom?

I think we're arguing semantics here. It's not FOR a grade, it's to DROP a grade the students have already EARNED. I don't see this any different than offering extra credit to boost the same bad grade.

As far as ruining it, what exactly are your intentions in calling the principal and teacher and saying you're not going to let it go? I'm sure there are plenty of students that are thrilled at the chance to participate that will not have a lower grade dropped if this program has to end because of a complaint.

 

[Gina]

As far as ruining it, what exactly are your intentions in calling the principal and teacher and saying you're not going to let it go? I'm sure there are plenty of students that are thrilled at the chance to participate that will not have a lower grade dropped if this program has to end because of a complaint.

Then I guess they'll just have to either ask for extra credit and earn their grade the legitimate way, or suck up their lowest grade. That's what my son will haave to do.

 

[disney junky]

I have a question for you guys. My son is in 7th grade, and came home yesterday telling me that for one of his classes, if each student brings in 5lbs of food for the local food bank, the teacher will drop the lowest grade.

I am all for helping charities... and DS and I do that whenever we can, however we can. But I have a very big problem with tying academics to anything else. What if there was a family in his class who relies on a food bank themselves, who couldn't afford to donate food? So their child just has to suck up their bad grade? The message I think this whole thing sends is that you can buy good grades with good deeds, and I think that both should be expected already and independent of each other.

This isn't the first time this has come up this school year... and I'm just wondering what you guys think?


-gina-

I didn't read all of the responses, but I'd like to point something out to all teachers (being one myself) that isn't often considered. It's quite likely that some students in the class are recipients of food from this food bank or whoever this donated food goes to. So not only aren't they able to participate, they face likely (private) embarassment as one of those for whom the kids are "doing their good deed."

And, it is illegal and unethical from an educational perspective to tie grades to anything other than academic performance (didn't mean to get technical-I think the first reason is reason enough).

 

[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]

Thank you for your very coherent thoughts. But I don't want my son to not participate, that's the thing. Not only do I not want to NOT donate food for a good cause, but he flaked out on an assignment and has a zero. My issue is that he is not learning to step up and ask for extra credit or something, try and right his own wrong... He will just have to bring in food and automatically have that zero dropped. What is he learning there? And how can I counter it?

I see. So you're not really willing to put your money where your mouth is. You call to make a fuss that you disagree with a program and then allow your son to participate anyway so that he can gain personal benefit from it? How exactly is that not letting the issue go.

I think you may be right about your concerns. However, you do have a choice - participate or not. Your son can even still bring food in for the food bank if that's not the part you have a problem with and just refuse to have the mark dropped.

I don't think you're teaching your son a good lesson if you say you believe one thing and then do another.

Then I guess they'll just have to either ask for extra credit and earn their grade the legitimate way, or suck up their lowest grade. That's what my son will haave to do.

You just said above that your son is going to participate. And in this post you say that your son is going to ask for extra credit or earn his grade the legitimate way? I don't follow.

 

[Tink888]

IMO, it wouldn't bother me. The same types of things go on in a lot of workplaces.

It's basically offering the kids an incentive to be charitable. It's really not that much food if you think about it. The food pantry gets food to feed the hungry, the participating students get their lowest grade dropped, the students who choose not to (or can't) participate are no worse or better off than they were before.

To me, being charitable goes hand in hand with good citizenship. Both should start at home. The school and community is an extension of that.

In a perfect world being charitable wouldn't be mandated, the schools and students would both being doing their jobs and have perfect grades so you wouldn't need to drop the lowest one and people would not go hungry.

Unfortunately, the world, the schools and people are not perfect so we all just try to do the best we can, when we can, to make things a little better.

 

[Stacerita]

I think its wrong to give them the chance to raise their grade without doing anything for that grade. Grades should be bases on merit. Not what charitable thing you do.

 

[Tink888]

Maybe the teacher could have put a different spin on it. For example:

"Today class, as part of our civics lesson of learning about the individual's role in the community, I will be offering each student a chance to earn 10 extra credit points. You can:

1. Make a list of 5 charitable organizations which directly benefit the community and list 5 ways you as an individual can positively impact your community in a non-charitable way; or

2. Make a donation of 5lbs of food for the local food shelter

Either way, the students choosing to participate have earned the credit, both groups have learned something about the community through action or research, and no student is required to act if they choose not to.

 

[MM27]

I would call the teacher.

I don't understand why schools are in the charity business now anyway.
We are as a family give to charities that we have picked out -thank you very much. I don't need the school to be my social consciousness.

I don't think grades should be tied into something that may be beyond the students control.

My school participates in many charity type community service projects. It's meant to bring awareness to the students that there are in fact people that don't have things that they have and they have the power to do something about it. This year we are doing a pre Thanksgiving food drive for the food bank of NJ and we know that many of the students in our school will be recipients of the baskets that are made. Nobody is forced to bring anything or singled out because of it. I've had kids in the past that have told me that they are donating things that they got in their food baskets that their family didn't like/want/need.

I do agree that grades should not be altered because of participation in these types of activities.

 

[WDSearcher]

I don't understand why schools are in the charity business now anyway.
We are as a family give to charities that we have picked out -thank you very much. I don't need the school to be my social consciousness.

Schools have been in the charity business for decades. I grew up in the 60s -- anyone else remember filling the little UNICEF box every year? You'd get a box to take home and a list of acceptable items: toothbrush, comb, tissues, small toys, etc. No one ever asked us if we could afford it ... it was just something we did. We talked about UNICEF and how it was "children helping children" and then as part of that unit, we filled our boxes and then shipped them off.

UNICEF itself was based on the concept of children being "assigned" charitable work. Was I the only one who ever had a UNICEF carnival in their backyard? That wasn't exactly a volunteered thing -- we got the carnival literature passed out in class.

No one else's school did a "penny drive" for a poorer country, where all the kids bring in the pennies they have and put them in a big jar to see how many we could raise? I did this every year between 2nd and 7th grades.

In Girl Scouts, badges were given for charitable work, be it making quilts for the hospital or collecting food at Thanksgiving.

Schools have been doing charity things forever. While it may not always have been for a grade, I have no doubt that teachers took into account the work done by their kids in these pursuits when deciding, say, the difference between a B+ and an A-. I think that's still true. Even if the teacher had not promised a 'reward' as a result of donating food to the food bank, you know that when it comes to grading time, teachers will remember what kind and generous things their students have (or haven't) done and that will affect their overall impression of that student. In this case, though, it sounds as though the teacher was wanting to give everyone a chance to drop a low grade anyway, and chose food bank donations as something that seemed doable for everyone in the class. I don't know that it automatically teaches kids that they can "buy their grade." What it does teach them, I think, is that "if I help my fellow man, there will be rewards down the road." At least, that's how I'd spin it to my kid.

 

[gina2000]

We do it a bit differently in our school. We just did a "wear a hat day". Pay a dollar, get a sticker, wear a hat all day in school. The proceeds go to cancer. Most kids can scrounge up a buck. It could be extended to kids who are on reduced lunch. Present your lunch card, wear the hat for free.

At my son's private school, it's a similar concept. Dress down days....pay a couple of bucks and dress down. The money goes to the local food bank.

This works far better in the middle schools than donating food. No one has to carry it. No contest. Many contribute.

 

[Todd&Copper]

My school participates in many charity type community service projects. It's meant to bring awareness to the students that there are in fact people that don't have things that they have and they have the power to do something about it. This year we are doing a pre Thanksgiving food drive for the food bank of NJ and we know that many of the students in our school will be recipients of the baskets that are made. Nobody is forced to bring anything or singled out because of it. I've had kids in the past that have told me that they are donating things that they got in their food baskets that their family didn't like/want/need.

I do agree that grades should not be altered because of participation in these types of activities.

That might be the purpose, but lots and lots of kids see it as "bring in more cans, get pizza/ice cream/extra credit/other". I can tell you that when I was in elementary and jr. high school and we had canned food drives, it was all about the reward, not the recipient.

Now, when my law school had a voluntary contest for creating the best Thanksgiving basket for a local needy family, I really got into that project - making sure to include little toys for the kids and nice cloth napkins and candles for the parents - and we ended up winning the "most thoughtful" prize. But in all honesty, I didn't know there was a prize, so we did what we did out of the goodness of our hearts, not to get recognition or prizes.

So I don't really think these elementary school drives necessarily teach the kids anything much about the concept of giving to others when rewards used to encourage participation. Pizza or ice cream parties are bad enough, but to tie academic performance and advantages to an unrelated charitiable coersion is a bit too far.

 

[MushyMushy]

I went through a similar quandary as a teacher last spring. A group was having a drive to benefit the Humane Society and the winning homeroom was to have a pizza party. Todd&Copper is right -- for my homeroom it was all about winning the reward, no matter how much I tried to make it about the animals. I was also "encouraged" to offer extra credit to the students in my own classes for bringing in items (even those not in my homeroom). I didn't like it for the same reasons you guys don't -- some of the kids in my classes were dirt poor! So, how fair was it to basically reward kids for having money to spend? Fortunately the list given to us by the Humane Society wanted lids and rings from milk bottles for cat toys, so even the kids who got free lunches were able to bring those in. They also offered up notebooks, pens, & pencils for office supplies, which are given to them by the school anyway (our school district provides school supplies for every student).

In the beginning, they just did it for the party. But by the end, when they saw how much stuff they were able to collect for the animals and really thought about them being in the cages with no homes, they did feel good about themselves. I'm glad they got something out of it in the end.

 

[disney1990]

I have a question for you guys. My son is in 7th grade, and came home yesterday telling me that for one of his classes, if each student brings in 5lbs of food for the local food bank, the teacher will drop the lowest grade.

I am all for helping charities... and DS and I do that whenever we can, however we can. But I have a very big problem with tying academics to anything else. What if there was a family in his class who relies on a food bank themselves, who couldn't afford to donate food? So their child just has to suck up their bad grade? The message I think this whole thing sends is that you can buy good grades with good deeds, and I think that both should be expected already and independent of each other.

This isn't the first time this has come up this school year... and I'm just wondering what you guys think?


-gina-

I would be asking if I could bring in 20 pounds.

Seriously, grades should only be tied to school work -- and nothing else!

 

[Gina]

I just wanted to update this. The principal called me again today, after speaking with the teacher, and we all came to a compromise that I think will work best. Since she already told the class that she would drop a grade in exchange for the food donation, she doesn't want to go back on that. (Which I completely understand.) And she did clarify that the grade being dropped was a daily assignment grade -- not like a big test grade or something.

But she did understand my feelings, and agreed with my concerns. I didn't want my son let off the hook that easily -- and even my son understood that when I explained it to him. His teacher offered a chance at extra credit in exchange for the food donation -- so now it's in HIS power to right his own mistake. And that is what I wanted. She said she will do it that way from now on, because it benefits everyone in a meaningful, long-term way.

I really appreciate all your thoughts on this, it helped me clarify my own thoughts.


-gina-

 

[C.Ann]

I just wanted to update this. The principal called me again today, after speaking with the teacher, and we all came to a compromise that I think will work best. Since she already told the class that she would drop a grade in exchange for the food donation, she doesn't want to go back on that. (Which I completely understand.) And she did clarify that the grade being dropped was a daily assignment grade -- not like a big test grade or something.

But she did understand my feelings, and agreed with my concerns. I didn't want my son let off the hook that easily -- and even my son understood that when I explained it to him. His teacher offered a chance at extra credit in exchange for the food donation -- so now it's in HIS power to right his own mistake. And that is what I wanted. She said she will do it that way from now on, because it benefits everyone in a meaningful, long-term way.

I really appreciate all your thoughts on this, it helped me clarify my own thoughts.


-gina-

-------------------------------

Good for you! I think that worked out extremely well - and I'm so glad that you spoke to the school about it..

 

[Nicoleclaw]

I've called teachers before - I call the school, and leave a message for the teacher to call me back (I've never known a teacher to give out a phone number). I've found that some teachers are great with emails, and some never check them.

I just have to say my school email S U C K S!!!!!!!!!!!1 If they use Echalk, I would not be surprised if the teacher wasn't getting the messages. We constantly have problems with our emails not going out (and we don't get a message to indicate this), and not receiving emails as well. I only found out when my dh wasn't getting my emails about who was picking up the kids. You can call the school and leave a message for the teacher to call you back.

 

[Anewman]

extra credit comes in many forms.

Depending on the class I see no negative issue with it. I really dont see this as putting any kid from an F all the way to an A.

If a kid has turned in 10 assignments, dropping the lowest graded one will make little difference. Most A students probably average As on their assignments, as C students will average Cs.