Am I the Only One Who Thinks Disney is Failing In Its Progression Vs. Universal

[Princess_Belle]

Yes Harry Potter us a franchise. But it's also a series of novels that will withstand the change in times. I'm not saying the park will still be as popular in 10 years, but we true HP fans will still be reading our books and watching our movies! True HP fans will still be visiting that park. Disney is completely different for me. I love it with all my heart but that doesn't mean I won't go to WWoHP! Disney could have bought the rights to create the park but they didn't. Then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[Planogirl]

Universal with never conquer over Dis. I was never impressed with Universal.
Don't worry, they're not.

Don't worry, they're not what? And worry about what? This isn't about conquering anything. The two resorts can coexist quite nicely in the same market without being a threat to one another. I see it as a win-win situation for everyone if they both do well.

As for the comparison of EE and 'Soarin and TSM to WWOHP (WHERE did that come from?), I could disect those attractions too. They are all flawed when it comes right down to it but I'm not going to attack them because I like WDW too. The point is that WWOHP is a new land with great theming, a fabulous new ride and a restaurant and shops. It's small but it's pretty much like any new area when it starts out. I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't grow in time but personally I'm excited to see it as it is now. I'm excited to try the Butterbeer alone.

I'm not so excited about the new Princess area but I'm not the person it's aimed at. It's clearly for small children and that's fine.

I don't understand the pointless attacks on this thread. Universal has nothing to do with Disney's perceived laziness over the past several years. It's up to Disney to keep the bar high and Universal has nothing to do with that. They logically just hope to attract more people to their parks.

 

[hoverpumpkin]

Yes Harry Potter us a franchise. But it's also a series of novels that will withstand the change in times. I'm not saying the park will still be as popular in 10 years, but we true HP fans will still be reading our books and watching our movies! True HP fans will still be visiting that park. Disney is completely different for me. I love it with all my heart but that doesn't mean I won't go to WWoHP! Disney could have bought the rights to create the park but they didn't. Then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I know. It's such a joke that people on these boards need to repeatedly insult and demean HP just because it isn't Disney. Universal has achieved something REALLY special with the Wizarding World of Harry Potter, and even though there's only one new ride right now, that ride is consistently placing in people's "top 5 rides of all time" lists. Besides, the area is new, and Universal has already said they have plans for expansion. Harry Potter has lasting qualities - otherwise the fandom would have died when the last book came out - and I'm so excited to hear what else Universal will come up with.

But I've lectured on this elsewhere and people would rather clap their hands over their ears and say "lalalala" because the Disney brainwashing machine is so effective.

Besides, Universal is of no consequence when it comes to Disney's personal standards. I LOVE Disney, but they should quit being boring and lazy of their own accord, not just because other destinations are out-innovating them.

 

[Azree]

really? that's quite some insight into the man. personally my money is on Walt also watching the bottom line. Maybe not as much as others, each has their own talents, but i find it hard to believe he didn't care at all.

Read the Gabler biography of Walt. His attitude towards Roy seemed generally to be "Just make me enough money so I can finance my next project." Most of the early animated features - especially "Sleeping Beauty" - actually pushed Disney to the brink of bankruptcy and made back very little, if any, of their initial investments and production costs.

I'm not going so far as to claim that he didn't like money - he did as much as any other red-blooded American.

But he genuinely did not care about the whole cost-benefit analysis economic BS that today's companies are concerned with.

He wanted to be able to see his vision come to life on the page, on the screen, in person. Imagination drove the man, not money. The Disney Corporation today cannot say the same.

Our greatest creative minds - Disney, Jim Henson, Francis Ford Coppola, George Lucas, Jim Cameron, I'm sure you can think of others - put their visions ahead of the bottom line. (Look how much Cameron spent on "Avatar"! Don't tell me he knew it was going to make a billion dollars...). And many of them risked financial security to do it.

Now, I'm not going to sit here and say "Disney should push themselves to bankruptcy to fix WDW!" But I do think they need to be willing to take more creative risks and let the Imagineers work their magic. Look what Lasseter's done with Pixar! The parks need someone like him in charge to spark some innovation.

 

[d1gitman]

Read the Gabler biography of Walt. Sounds like some great reading, I will take that up. His attitude towards Roy seemed generally to be "Just make me enough money so I can finance my next project." Most of the early animated features - especially "Sleeping Beauty" - actually pushed Disney to the brink of bankruptcy and made back very little, if any, of their initial investments and production costs.

I'm not going so far as to claim that he didn't like money - he did as much as any other red-blooded American.

But he genuinely did not care about the whole cost-benefit analysis economic BS that today's companies are concerned with.

wow, i'd hardly call watching the bottom lines as BS. of it was Roy who crunched the numbers and kept things afloat financially, then thank you Roy! artistic vision is great, but in the business world you do have to watch the bottom line if you want to survive, let alone thrive. that is unless you are the federal gov't who is allowed to operate with ridiculous debt. glad Disney has someone minding the store. it may not always bring us the mind numbing creativity we seek (and i do think they are slacking in some areas) but it does keep them in business for us to enjoy. not to cheapen the value of Disney, but a financially healthy Disney is better than NO Disney.

He wanted to be able to see his vision come to life on the page, on the screen, in person. Imagination drove the man, not money (that is true with most every artist, no matter what the medium). The Disney Corporation today cannot say the same. True, but Walt isn't with us anymore. You can't replace a Walt anymore than you can a Picasso. At the end of the day, Walt created a business so it must continue on as a business or we have no Disney.


Our greatest creative minds - Disney, Jim Henson, Francis Ford Coppola, George Lucas, Jim Cameron, I'm sure you can think of others - put their visions ahead of the bottom line (i would venture to say that many starving artists put it all on the line when starting out. the few who are lucky enough to strick it rich end up with a business that they ahve to manage). (Look how much Cameron spent on "Avatar"! Don't tell me he knew it was going to make a billion dollars...) (probably not, but he is already a very wealthy person and even if Avatar bombed, he wasn't going to be homeless. That i think is a safe assumption). And many of them risked financial security to do it.

Now, I'm not going to sit here and say "Disney should push themselves to bankruptcy to fix WDW!" But I do think they need to be willing to take more creative risks and let the Imagineers work their magic (agreed). Look what Lasseter's done with Pixar! The parks need someone like him in charge to spark some innovation. (that sounds good and it may be true, but you never know. Lasseter's genius may be on the big screen with stories best played out in CG. Much like Walt's medium was animation. He could also flop when it comes to the the theme park business.) At the end of the day, bean counters and lawyers are a necessary evil in doing business. If no one is minding the farm, it will collapse.

I'd be willing to bet that the Imagineers have fantastic visions and that it is economics that prevent us from gettting what we suspect is possible froma technical and artistic standpoint. Still, the fact remains, Disney has to remain profitable first. We may not like what that does to some of the creativity, but it is necessary. Like they say 'necessity is the mother of inventions'.

 

[kmk1180]

Is that a personal attack, are you calling me delusional?
Have you even been to Universal or it is lame because it is Universal? I do not compare WWOHP to EE or Soarin but to MK expansion. I bet if Disney was doing Harry Potter, everyone would be excited but since it is Universal, well, enough said. Why people cannot enjoy both worlds, is it so necessary to pick sides. Childish.

No it's not an attack.
It's a HP joke.
Sorry I don't know the HP lingo to know what the name of charm is.
So no don't take it as a personal attack, it was meant as a joke a HP fan could get. Sorry if it didn't work.

I do think people can enjoy both.

I have visited 3 times over the years, most recent made trip to check out the Mummy ride which was new at the time.

I find it funny how the same people who critize WDW lovers for "wearing rose colored glasses" can't stand to listen to anything but HP love.
Just go check out IoA forums. Anything but praise gets bashed.
Just dare mention it's not a whole "HP park" just a land and you get bashed.
Even the dis review gets bashed for saying the ride didn't live up to expectations.
And HP lovers are quick to claim the expansion of fantasyland won't be as good as HP.
Or bash Disney because Disney decided it wasn't worth the cost.
(and if they did, those same people would be loving disney right now)
Many swear it's on everyone's "top 5 list" of greatest rides of all time.
Please!. 99.999% of people haven't even been on it yet.
Include almost everyone here except Orlando locals.
So to me HP fans are just as quick to bash disney right now and defend HP as many disney fans are to bash US. It works both ways.

I personally think people need to take a breath and wait and see if HP
will have a lasting impact or not. That's all.

It's like in sports, when a rookier player comes with with a huge contract and the media hypes him as the next great thing. Well, they haven't done anything yet, let time prove what it really is.
US may be competition in the same town but they have yet to find large demographic that will stay more than a day or so. Maybe they finally have something...maybe they don't.

I personally will probably go check it out in a couple years after the initial hype dies down. I've read the books and seen the movies but it's not worth a day to go there for that ride alone and fight a crowd.

Final thought, I was wondering how many pages it would take for this topic to turn into a HP fight. Took longer than I thought it would.

 

[Azree]

I'd be willing to bet that the Imagineers have fantastic visions and that it is economics that prevent us from gettting what we suspect is possible froma technical and artistic standpoint. Still, the fact remains, Disney has to remain profitable first. We may not like what that does to some of the creativity, but it is necessary. Like they say 'necessity is the mother of inventions'.

We don't disagree, d1gitman. I guess I'd just like to see Corporate loosen the reins a little bit and not be afraid to lose money in the short-term in order to preserve the long-term uniqueness and wonder that was Walt's dream.


And I highly recommend the Gabler bio - a thorough (and pretty dense) picture of a VERY interesting man, warts and all.

 

[d1gitman]

We don't disagree, d1gitman. I guess I'd just like to see Corporate loosen the reins a little bit and not be afraid to lose money in the short-term in order to preserve the long-term uniqueness and wonder that was Walt's dream. I can live with that


And I highly recommend the Gabler bio - a thorough (and pretty dense) picture of a VERY interesting man, warts and all. I am definitely gonna read the Gabler bio, thanks for bringing that to my attention

Also, i don't think WDW or DL do enough to showcase Walt Disney himself. Heaven knows all the ideas that passed through his mind and office that are probably collection dust in some warehouse. They should really add something significant to showcase and better educate everyone about Walt. Walt's are a rare treat in this world and when one comes along and graces us with their talents and generosity, they should be celebrated.

 

[Planogirl]

No it's not an attack.
It's a HP joke.
Sorry I don't know the HP lingo to know what the name of charm is.
So no don't take it as a personal attack, it was meant as a joke a HP fan could get. Sorry if it didn't work.

I do think people can enjoy both.

I have visited 3 times over the years, most recent made trip to check out the Mummy ride which was new at the time.

I find it funny how the same people who critize WDW lovers for "wearing rose colored glasses" can't stand to listen to anything but HP love.
Just go check out IoA forums. Anything but praise gets bashed.
Just dare mention it's not a whole "HP park" just a land and you get bashed.
Even the dis review gets bashed for saying the ride didn't live up to expectations.
And HP lovers are quick to claim the expansion of fantasyland won't be as good as HP.
Or bash Disney because Disney decided it wasn't worth the cost.
(and if they did, those same people would be loving disney right now)
Many swear it's on everyone's "top 5 list" of greatest rides of all time.
Please!. 99.999% of people haven't even been on it yet.
Include almost everyone here except Orlando locals.
So to me HP fans are just as quick to bash disney right now and defend HP as many disney fans are to bash US. It works both ways.

I personally think people need to take a breath and wait and see if HP
will have a lasting impact or not. That's all.

It's like in sports, when a rookier player comes with with a huge contract and the media hypes him as the next great thing. Well, they haven't done anything yet, let time prove what it really is.
US may be competition in the same town but they have yet to find large demographic that will stay more than a day or so. Maybe they finally have something...maybe they don't.

I personally will probably go check it out in a couple years after the initial hype dies down. I've read the books and seen the movies but it's not worth a day to go there for that ride alone and fight a crowd.

Final thought, I was wondering how many pages it would take for this topic to turn into a HP fight. Took longer than I thought it would.

Personally I defend both Universal and WDW as have some others. But it's easy to lump us in with "Universal lovers" I guess. I'm also not a HP lover but I like anything fresh and new whatever the subject matter.

But to each their own. Your opinion is just as valid as mine, no more and no less.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Part of Disney's problem is that they lost out on the KUKA robotic arm ride technology back when Universal won the contract for the Harry Potter characters. That was a technology they were hoping to use in a few new rides according to Jim Hill. ALthough they do have a few arms they are using for Sum of All Thrills.

I don't really blame Disney for losing out on Harry, but I do think they need to find something to attract the male and teenager demographic. The Fantasyland refurb is going to be a good way to attract little girls and their parents, but not boys and bigger kids.

 

[BuzzLightyearInTampa]

While Universal continues to introduce very good and even occasionally great new attractions, they still have major problems. In general, their employees lag far behind from Disney's cast members in enthusiasm and a real willingness to help out the guests. Also, their food service in both parks is significantly lower quality than Disney's. But my biggest problem with them is they really squeeze you for extra cash at every turn. At WDW FastPass is free to all guests. No matter your ticket, it works exactly the same. At Universal their Universal Express is only available for purchase (and it is not cheap!) or if you are staying at one of their hotels, then it's included. And there is no return time, you just get quicker access to the ride. Universal tried it the Disney way when they first introduced it, but obviously either couldn't manage it, or saw an opportunity to make more cash.

While I don't disagree that Disney seems to have hit a bit of a lull in introducing new, exciting rides that will draw in the young crowds, they still have a huge leg up because they are operating on the legacy of a genius and his dream fulfilled of creating someplace the whole family can go and have a great time.

For myself personally, I'll always prefer WDW over Universal, but I can think of one thing that will put the advantage squarely to Disney again for the average theme park goer: It's been said before, and I'll say it again, it's time to open a 5th gate at WDW.

 

[KellyNY]

No it's not an attack.
It's a HP joke.
Sorry I don't know the HP lingo to know what the name of charm is.
So no don't take it as a personal attack, it was meant as a joke a HP fan could get. Sorry if it didn't work.

I do think people can enjoy both.

I have visited 3 times over the years, most recent made trip to check out the Mummy ride which was new at the time.

I find it funny how the same people who critize WDW lovers for "wearing rose colored glasses" can't stand to listen to anything but HP love.
Just go check out IoA forums. Anything but praise gets bashed.
Just dare mention it's not a whole "HP park" just a land and you get bashed.
Even the dis review gets bashed for saying the ride didn't live up to expectations.
And HP lovers are quick to claim the expansion of fantasyland won't be as good as HP.
Or bash Disney because Disney decided it wasn't worth the cost.
(and if they did, those same people would be loving disney right now)
Many swear it's on everyone's "top 5 list" of greatest rides of all time.
Please!. 99.999% of people haven't even been on it yet.
Include almost everyone here except Orlando locals.
So to me HP fans are just as quick to bash disney right now and defend HP as many disney fans are to bash US. It works both ways.

I personally think people need to take a breath and wait and see if HP
will have a lasting impact or not. That's all.

It's like in sports, when a rookier player comes with with a huge contract and the media hypes him as the next great thing. Well, they haven't done anything yet, let time prove what it really is.
US may be competition in the same town but they have yet to find large demographic that will stay more than a day or so. Maybe they finally have something...maybe they don't.

I personally will probably go check it out in a couple years after the initial hype dies down. I've read the books and seen the movies but it's not worth a day to go there for that ride alone and fight a crowd.

Final thought, I was wondering how many pages it would take for this topic to turn into a HP fight. Took longer than I thought it would.

Thank you for appology but word "delusional" is not a good joke, just for future references. I am not what one could call a fan even so I enjoy movies and read first book but I would applause even to Six Flags if they would pull something as big as WWOHP. Big in a sence of cool, new, unusual, emersive, not in a sence of size.

The reason I asked you if you visited US was that many on board did not even see WWOHP (including you) but quick to cry that it will not last, it is just an area and not even worth checking. How do you know, if you haven't been there.

I checked US board many times. I noticed that those who are disapointed, expected the whole new park not the area, like Universal ever said otherwise. Who is to blame if some people did not care to check web page to see what is to expect. Yes, some people like it and some do not, same with Disney, we are not a single brain after all. However at least those people who was there can say from experience what they think of it no matter good or bad and those who never been there act childish but covering their ears, so they would not even hear of Universal success.

As for Harry Potter fame will go away with the last movie, well new generation will read those books, watch those movies, so it will continue, maybe not as strong as now but it will not go away completely and something new will appear and kids will read new books and play new games, after all kids cannot be raised on Princesses stories only.

 

[BuzzLightyearInTampa]

Some of the rides at WWOHP are re-themed and not new at all. These rides (Dueling Dragons, Pteradon Flyers) have been redone and incorporated into the new theme there. I haven't been there yet myself due to summer heat and the reports of super long wait times. We plan on seeing it later this fall over a weekend when we can stay in their hotel and use the Universal Express line.

I indeed like several of the rides there: Spiderman, The Hulk, The Mummy, Men in Black, etc. I just don't like the long waits or money grab to avoid the waits.

 

[d1gitman]

Some of the rides at WWOHP are re-themed and not new at all...

i for one don't think rethemed rides are such a horrible thing. dumbo is going to be updated and doubled, goofly's barnstormer coaster is going to be rethemed. Those are attractions that i think are completely appropriate to be re-used/themed.

Stitch, well that is just an abomination of imagineering. that attraction has be reheated in the microwave for 3 different versions. one makeover was okay, but beyond that it's heresy. That building should be deep sixed and a new attraction related to future or retro future theming needs to go in.

 

[morethananyonex]

Why do people get so offended at any negative talk about the Harry Potter land?

I'm sure it's amazing for Harry Potter fans, and I am not one of them. I would be saying the exact same things if Disney purchased the rights to it. The popularity will fade eventually (I don't mean unpopular, I just mean down to a normal level). I can't see it ever legitimately giving Disney a run for their money by making a noticeable dent in their attendance. It's the nature of this kind of stuff, personally I think it will be similar to Star Wars, still many fans, but the buzz won't last over the land forever. At the end of the day it's just a small section of the park.

That said, from what I've heard this is the closest Universal has come to "Disney" work, but I haven't been to Universal (that I can remember) so I'm just going by what I've heard. What I'm trying to say is good for Universal, they did a good job pulling it off, but I don't think it's going to hurt Disney.

Disney has it's own major issues to worry about, and Bob Iger is INSANE if he actually thinks nothing needs to be done after the refurb, but like I said, it has little to do with Universal at this point.

 

[BuzzLightyearInTampa]

i for one don't think rethemed rides are such a horrible thing. dumbo is going to be updated and doubled, goofly's barnstormer coaster is going to be rethemed. Those are attractions that i think are completely appropriate to be re-used/themed.

Stitch, well that is just an abomination of imagineering. that attraction has be reheated in the microwave for 3 different versions. one makeover was okay, but beyond that it's heresy. That building should be deep sixed and a new attraction related to future or retro future theming needs to go in.

Totally agree on Stitch. The Extra-Terrorestrial Alien Encounter was scary. Stitch is boring and based on a really bad movie and a totally unlikable character in that bad movie. When Disney went on a Stitch craze a couple years back, it seemed he was everywhere on every piece of merchandise, even mixed in with the classic characters like Mickey, Minnie, etc. I think that was when the Pooh characters were sidelined due to a lawsuit, but that seems to have passed now, thank Heaven!

 

[MurphyJoe]

Some of the rides at WWOHP are re-themed and not new at all. These rides (Dueling Dragons, Pteradon Flyers) have been redone and incorporated into the new theme there.

It completely undermines any argument you are trying to make when you can't get the attraction names correct. I assure you, Pteranodon Flyers is still flying over Camp Jurassic.

 

[drag n' fly]

No flames meant here, we all love Disney (in fact I'm a Disney fanatic), but I've been underwhelmed with their progress as of late. For me, I do not see the cutting edge technology and expansions from the 80's and 90's. Universal has come out with a new roller coaster, Simpsons, Harry Potter, the Mummy etc. Disney has come out with Everest and Toy Story Mania. Don't get me wrong, I like these rides, but what's next? An expansion of Fantasyland including a ride based on a movie from the late 80's, a couple of new meet and greet locations and a new restaurant? I honestly think this fails in comparison, terribly.

Across the country we have Disneyland where they added a new fireworks show (which I admit to be excited for), and are creating Little Mermaid and Cars Land. Do we really a whole land dedicated to Cars? The ride may be fun, but a whole land? Why not Pixar land? Do they not remember the failure that is Bug's Land? Is this the best there is?

Sorry for the rant, but I'm frustrated. I've been going to Disney my whole life and for the first time, I'm spending half of my time off site my next visit visiting other parks. Why not create some of the rides Disney has put up in Disney Paris or Asia for that matter? I realize times are tough, but you need to spend money to make money, and Disney is loosing half their profit from me this year.

I 100% agree with you and I too love Disney

 

[palavra]

Sounds to me like you hit the nail on the head

Not even close! We took my then 4 year old daughter to Universal and to Mk in 2007. She liked Mk and loved the universal parks! We spent 2 days at IOA and 2 days at Universal. The water play areas in Universal, Barney's Show, Shrek and Jimmy Neutron and ET were huge hits for her. At IOA, she loved the Seussland of course! She also loved the water rides and Popeye's boat. To us, Universal was easier to navigate and very child friendly. We adults tried some of the "thrill" rides and loved them. Oh, and the shops and theming are amazing. The only Disney park that I like more for theming is Epcot.

 

[SIMJUN]

I think Disney is in a league of it's own amongst theme parks.

There is so much more to Disney than rides.

Disney is total entertainment with something for everyone, parades, shows, fireworks, the attention to detail, the little Disney touches, after twenty years of going to Disney, we STILL find new little things to delight us.

Universal is okay, but it isn't somehwere I would go back to over and over again.

Sea World has a special place in our hearts, but not because of rides.

I am happy to go to Disney these days and spend the whole time on property.

I do wish though, that they would go ahead with the often rumoured Villains Park!! That could be awesome.