Am I the only one NERVOUS about the vaccine? And I’m very PRO-VAX

[AndreaA]

So we don't reach herd immunity, and we never, ever see Disney fireworks in person again. Great plan.

Frankly that beats someone being able to force someone to have a medical procedure - like, HANDS DOWN beats it. But luckily it seems enough people are lining up to get the vaccination that it won’t be an issue, and maybe after a few years of actual long-term effects are known more people will be willing to get it. I truly don’t understand the doom and gloom, “my way or the highway” people who simply put blinders on when others present rational and intelligent but divergent points of view.

I started this thread to hear from people who were nervous, but probably going thru with it anyway, not to have those who have zero concerns come rushing in to bully everyone about their choices. Sheesh.

 

[RamblingMad]

Or, third choice, actually take a little more time to investigate the issues which have cropped up with all the vaccines - clotting issues with AZ and J&J, bleeding issues with Pfizer. Even if all they find is the reason those things happened to THOSE PEOPLE, that would be enough because then we could screen for that and keep those at risk just as safe as those who can get the vaccines without adverse affects. I mean that still doesn’t address the issues that could crop up 15 years down the road, but hell, maybe taking the time to stop and investigate the current issues would lead to other issues being stopped as well.

Let's stay closed for another year to play it safe because some bad side effects impact less than 1% of the population. Mathematically, that makes no sense.

The number of bad side effects are so ridiculously tiny.

"Thirty blood clotting cases were reported in the UK after the first 18 million doses of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine, the medicines regulator has said. "

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19...zeneca-jabs-says-medicines-regulator-12263543

 

[leahgoogle]

Let's stay closed for another year to play it safe because some bad side effects impact less than 1% of the population. Mathematically, that makes no sense.

The number of bad side effects are so ridiculously tiny.

"Thirty blood clotting cases were reported in the UK after the first 18 million doses of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine, the medicines regulator has said. "

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19...zeneca-jabs-says-medicines-regulator-12263543

But, those people matter too. Any many more have been injured or died from the other vaccines too. I just don't get how people can throw insults at people who are not getting the vaccine at the moment because they want to make sure long-term the effects are better known. The people who die or are injured from the vaccine matter too.

 

[TwoMisfits]

It’s just odd. I’m allergic to nothing. I’ve received vaccines before and no rash. And when I googled it said if you get a non injection site rash within 4 hours do NOT get the second shot. I reported it. The message said someone from the CDC may call me.

Frankly that beats someone being able to force someone to have a medical procedure - like, HANDS DOWN beats it. But luckily it seems enough people are lining up to get the vaccination that it won’t be an issue, and maybe after a few years of actual long-term effects are known more people will be willing to get it. I truly don’t understand the doom and gloom, “my way or the highway” people who simply put blinders on when others present rational and intelligent but divergent points of view.

I started this thread to hear from people who were nervous, but probably going thru with it anyway, not to have those who have zero concerns come rushing in to bully everyone about their choices. Sheesh.

It was a great idea for a thread! There are very few places for the likely "largest held 'middle' thought" (worry but willing to give it a try) to talk and just release some thoughts or even stress.

And from me personally, thanks to you and all others who feel like the title thread who still choose to go through with the vaccine even with your doubts. Every one of you protect me and those with my disease more, and we are very, very grateful. I've been feeling very optimistic to start 2021, and nothing about the last few weeks/months has made me less so.

 

[Princessclab]

Not sure where to start with all of this...

1. Yes, I’m very aware of the extensive analysis of data as well as the limitations of what is reviewed & analyzed.
2. I am not running these vaccine trials so I can’t tell you why they didn’t collect safety data directly related to the vaccine. You should ask the manufacturers why they didn’t do that & maybe ask the FDA why they accepted that as I have never heard of that before across my many trials as well none of my colleagues have ever heard of that. And while IRBs can be very good I find more often than not they aren’t protecting study participants as well as they should. The local IRBs tend to be better than the central IRBs.
3. Yes, pretty much all studies give money to trial participants but it is usually nominal ($25 per visit, although sometimes more if the visits are longer or more invasive) so that is why I was astounded to hear that the vaccine trials were paying $1000 or more for study participation... that is coercive in my mind & how the IRBs approved that I will never understand. And no I haven’t reported this the the FDA as 1 they probably already know & don’t care & 2 I only have information off the internet from these forums which is not the best source but several posters have sworn that this is the case.

At the end of the day I can see the limitations that exist in pharma as well as the politics of the FDA. These vaccines were rushed & safety was not adequately studied. I can tell you that if I had been on these studies I would have quit as they are so far out of the norm of what is considered acceptable that I wouldn’t be able to live with myself being involved with a trial like these.

Since it sounds like you have some knowledge of trials how can you support these vaccines knowing how wrong these 2 practices are? You yourself said the payments were coercive & that all safety should be collected. So if we know they went out of bounds for these 2 aspects what else did they do wrong that we don’t know about?

Pharma is filled with a lot of good people & a lot of people who think the ends justifies the means. So they may have believed that the benefits out way the risks but for me I’m going to take a look at all the evidence & make my own conclusions.

I totally appreciate your concerns but I have not been involved in any research that I was concerned about ethics. Any issues of concern were addressed during the trials and corrected. I am not really convinced that there is not unethical research going on.
I believe they did collect safety data on the vaccines so can I ask you where you got that information?
IMO these vaccines were well examined and the follow up is good, based on the science of the vaccine itself.

In my experience there are drugs studies that do shorter follow-up during a study and then follow-up long term after the drug is approved. They look at the science of the half life and the expected effects
Do you have experience with vaccine trials? It would be good to hear your experiences.
The FDA has a reputation of being slow with their approvals; it has nothing to do with the actual studies, science and stats results, they have a reputation for being really slow in the industry. IMO, they stepped up. Previously they were under no obligation to be timely under the duress of pharma and medical device companies; one of the biggest complaints.
I believe the industry is pretty good at monitoring itself and has become more so over the last years with very rigorous requirements for approval or even annual re-aporoval.
It is not a bad thing that people are questioning.

 

[Princessclab]

Are

Is this even for real? From an RN? Do you blame cancer on smokers and heart disease on overeaters? How dare they seek treatment. No one to my knowledge has said to hell with precautions and are hanging out unmasked and "asking" for COVID. I am glad my doctor and her staff are not as rude and callous.

Are you in healthcare?

No one in healthcare would ever ask if someone chose to not follow safe practices in regards to the Covid virus, it was my own personal RHETORICAL question. I would like to make people think about it, it has nothing to do with being an RN. Are you an RN?

Emergent care has nothing to do with longer term life style choices though those choices do seem to influence of Covid.
Best of health to you.

 

[StacyStrong]

Frankly that beats someone being able to force someone to have a medical procedure - like, HANDS DOWN beats it. But luckily it seems enough people are lining up to get the vaccination that it won’t be an issue, and maybe after a few years of actual long-term effects are known more people will be willing to get it. I truly don’t understand the doom and gloom, “my way or the highway” people who simply put blinders on when others present rational and intelligent but divergent points of view.

I started this thread to hear from people who were nervous, but probably going thru with it anyway, not to have those who have zero concerns come rushing in to bully everyone about their choices. Sheesh.

Not to be rude, but maybe you don't get the "doom and gloom" because your family members haven't died. Like mine have. There's very real reasons why some of us are "doom and gloom."

Frankly, I don't want to, as another poster suggested, reach herd immunity "one way or another" and have that "way" be more of my family members dying.

I absolutely get being anxious. I 100% was and still am for my second shot, but I'm also past being patient with people who won't get a vaccine, don't want to mask, can't manage to social distance, etc. My tolerance for people's personal choices all but disappears when they kill the people I love.

 

[tink2424]

Not to be rude, but maybe you don't get the "doom and gloom" because your family members haven't died. Like mine have. There's very real reasons why some of us are "doom and gloom."

Frankly, I don't want to, as another poster suggested, reach herd immunity "one way or another" and have that "way" be more of my family members dying.

I absolutely get being anxious. I 100% was and still am for my second shot, but I'm also past being patient with people who won't get a vaccine, don't want to mask, can't manage to social distance, etc. My tolerance for people's personal choices all but disappears when they kill the people I love.

You do realize that forcing others to have a vaccine could kill their relatives too? I just don’t understand the hypocrisy. So maybe it is fewer deaths but I guess those deaths don’t matter because they aren’t your family or because you felt the risk was worth it. Do you see how that sounds?

 

[tink2424]

duplicate... sorry.

 

[AndreaA]

[

Not to be rude, but maybe you don't get the "doom and gloom" because your family members haven't died. Like mine have. There's very real reasons why some of us are "doom and gloom."

Frankly, I don't want to, as another poster suggested, reach herd immunity "one way or another" and have that "way" be more of my family members dying.

I absolutely get being anxious. I 100% was and still am for my second shot, but I'm also past being patient with people who won't get a vaccine, don't want to mask, can't manage to social distance, etc. My tolerance for people's personal choices all but disappears when they kill the people I love.

And that is all understandable, but that isn’t what I meant by “doom and gloom”. I meant those who think if we don’t have 100% vaccination rate then we will never see fireworks again. Sorry, but I don’t believe that. We also aren’t talking about people who flaunt common sense precautions. We’re talking specifically about vaccination and anxiety about it. If you can’t understand why someone would have anxiety and come to a different decision than you about what to do about vaccinating, well, no one is really asking you to do so.

 

[StacyStrong]

You do realize that forcing others to have a vaccine could kill their relatives too? I just don’t understand the hypocrisy. So maybe it is fewer deaths but I guess those deaths don’t matter because they aren’t your family or because you felt the risk was worth it. Do you see how that sounds?

Could it????????

 

[StacyStrong]

[


And that is all understandable, but that isn’t what I meant by “doom and gloom”. I meant those who think if we don’t have 100% vaccination rate then we will never see fireworks again. Sorry, but I don’t believe that. We also aren’t talking about people who flaunt common sense precautions. We’re talking specifically about vaccination and anxiety about it. If you can’t understand why someone would have anxiety and come to a different decision than you about what to do about vaccinating, well, no one is really asking you to do so.

Many of the people in this thread are restriction, anti-mask etc. You don't seem to be and that's great. I don't fault your anxiety or hesitance. I'm personally speaking of these types of people and people who make it seem like we don't need a vaccine, period, because it'll happen "one way or another" or people who reference the Spanish Flu like that wasn't an absolute catastrophe.

 

[AndreaA]

[

Could it????????

Well yes, that’s exactly what we’re discussing. Already a clotting issue has been discovered which seems to affect younger (under 60) women. That group is actually LESS likely to be seriously affected by covid, but could die from the vaccine. What are the chances? We still don’t know because they haven’t tested it enough - which is really ALL that those who are more hesitant about the vaccine are saying.

Yes, yay vaccine! Hiphiphooray for science! But once the most vulnerable are vaccinated how about pumping the breaks a bit to make sure no bumps in the road have been found.

 

[Princessclab]

Frankly that beats someone being able to force someone to have a medical procedure - like, HANDS DOWN beats it. But luckily it seems enough people are lining up to get the vaccination that it won’t be an issue, and maybe after a few years of actual long-term effects are known more people will be willing to get it. I truly don’t understand the doom and gloom, “my way or the highway” people who simply put blinders on when others present rational and intelligent but divergent points of view.

I started this thread to hear from people who were nervous, but probably going thru with it anyway, not to have those who have zero concerns come rushing in to bully everyone about their choices. Sheesh.

I have to tell you that I loved this discussion. I live in a scientific world and really do not hear from many that are not. Thank you.
With this pandemic, people get affended that healthcare is not the same as it was. Since this can be immediately life threatening it is difficult for us.
I appreciate the worry about long term affects. The doom and gloom comes from the 500,000 people's families who have died from it.
It is a very personal decision to get the vaccine; those of us in healthcare that have science brains do not quite understand why not. We believe we are trying to save your life, just like any other healthcare advice no matter what the medical issue a person may have.
The question is, has your HCP, recommended something that was bad for you before? (this is my heathcare brain asking this)
I hope that people really learn and listen to all of the information before their decision is made to get a vaccine. It is not only about a medical decision it is also a public health and a social decision.
Please, everyone take care.
Hope to see you all at WDW soon!!!!

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

Is this even for real? From an RN? Do you blame cancer on smokers and heart disease on overeaters? How dare they seek treatment. No one to my knowledge has said to hell with precautions and are hanging out unmasked and "asking" for COVID. I am glad my doctor and her staff are not as rude and callous.

In fairness there have been many people on these Covid threads that have said exactly that. They haven't changed what they do, they don't mask and think the rules are stupid and don't follow them. So while they be in the minority, we can't pretend they don't exist.

 

[tink2424]

I totally appreciate your concerns but I have not been involved in any research that I was concerned about ethics. Any issues of concern were addressed during the trials and corrected. I am not really convinced that there is not unethical research going on.
I believe they did collect safety data on the vaccines so can I ask you where you got that information?
IMO these vaccines were well examined and the follow up is good, based on the science of the vaccine itself.

In my experience there are drugs studies that do shorter follow-up during a study and then follow-up long term after the drug is approved. They look at the science of the half life and the expected effects
Do you have experience with vaccine trials? It would be good to hear your experiences.
The FDA has a reputation of being slow with their approvals; it has nothing to do with the actual studies, science and stats results, they have a reputation for being really slow in the industry. IMO, they stepped up. Previously they were under no obligation to be timely under the duress of pharma and medical device companies; one of the biggest complaints.
I believe the industry is pretty good at monitoring itself and has become more so over the last years with very rigorous requirements for approval or even annual re-aporoval.
It is not a bad thing that people are questioning.

I have also not been involved in any studies myself with ethical concerns as I wouldn’t put up with that and would have no problem reporting something to the FDA or whomever I needed to.

You are correct that some drugs go to market with post marketing studies planned to answer additional questions but no drug has only been studied for such a short time & gone to market in these numbers. It just isn’t done & maybe it shouldn’t be done. I can’t answer that question & certainly time will tell if we made the right decision to vaccinate hundreds of millions of people.

The FDA should take its time reviewing drugs but I agree they could do a better job with being timely when submissions are made.

At the end of the day most people in pharma aren’t bad but it is a business & where money is involved there is bound to be corruption. That is why we see time and time again that drug makers are sued & people win because they have proven that they don’t always make the best decisions. And sometimes is just ignorance that causes problems. And you can’t at the end of the day forget that vaccine manufacturers are not held liable for their vaccines. You can’t sue them by law in the US. So there really is no value in them ensuring ethics as there is nothing for the manufacturers to lose.

I have not worked on vaccine studies but have a few friends that have in the past. All in all I don’t know how anyone with knowledge of clinical research can say that these trials weren’t rushed. I completely understand why & I also understand why people are willing to take the vaccines but that doesn’t mean we should force or bully those who are questioning the vaccines to take them. It also doesn’t mean that if you aren’t rushing out to get the vaccine that you are Anti-science or don’t understand the science or that you are a conspiracy theorist.

 

[leahgoogle]

Many of the people in this thread are restriction, anti-mask etc. You don't seem to be and that's great. I don't fault your anxiety or hesitance. I'm personally speaking of these types of people and people who make it seem like we don't need a vaccine, period, because it'll happen "one way or another" or people who reference the Spanish Flu like that wasn't an absolute catastrophe.

Since you have referenced my quote twice now, I should explain. When I said it will happen "one way or another", I didn't mean that everyone should forgo the vaccine and let natural immunity bring us to herd immunity. We will literally get to herd immunity with a combination of vaccine immunity and natural immunity. I do wear masks and distance when necessary, but I also won't be running out to get this vaccine.

 

[AndreaA]

I have to tell you that I loved this discussion. I live in a scientific world and really do not hear from many that are not. Thank you.
With this pandemic, people get affended that healthcare is not the same as it was. Since this can be immediately life threatening it is difficult for us.
I appreciate the worry about long term affects. The doom and gloom comes from the 500,000 people's families who have died from it.
It is a very personal decision to get the vaccine; those of us in healthcare that have science brains do not quite understand why not. We believe we are trying to save your life, just like any other healthcare advice no matter what the medical issue a person may have.
The question is, has your HCP, recommended something that was bad for you before? (this is my heathcare brain asking this)
I hope that people really learn and listen to all of the information before their decision is made to get a vaccine. It is not only about a medical decision it is also a public health abd a social decision.
Please, everyone take care.
Hope to see you all at WDW soon!!!!

My personal situation actually is particularly relevant to my anxiety. First, my Hashimoto’s thyroiditis was so severe when it started that it was diagnosed as lupus and then no one knew what the symptoms were - I was in and out of doctor and ER for over a year. Then I was diagnosed with fibroids but they were “no big deal”. I went on Nuvaring birth control and within a year they had grown so that I looked 3mo pregnant. The “simple” myomectomy to remove them took 4 hrs and I needed a blood transfusion. IVF gave me a textbook twin pregnancy and then a routine 2wk early c-section gave me 8lb and 7lb boys but left me hospitalized for two weeks, hooked to the wall and multiple IVs, having multiple x-rays and ultrasounds to see why my intestines wouldn’t start working again.

So yeah, I’ve seen that medicine may be a science, but it’s not a perfect science, So when a brand new drug comes along and it’s supposed to be the key to “the new normal” I can’t help but remember all the other supposedly easy things that were supposed to happen for me...

I do hope that everyone takes care and is protecting themselves and those around them no matter what they ultimately decide.

 

[Princessclab]

Many of the people in this thread are restriction, anti-mask etc. You don't seem to be and that's great. I don't fault your anxiety or hesitance. I'm personally speaking of these types of people and people who make it seem like we don't need a vaccine, period, because it'll happen "one way or another" or people who reference the Spanish Flu like that wasn't an absolute catastrophe.

Let's stay closed for another year to play it safe because some bad side effects impact less than 1% of the population. Mathematically, that makes no sense.

The number of bad side effects are so ridiculously tiny.

"Thirty blood clotting cases were reported in the UK after the first 18 million doses of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine, the medicines regulator has said. "

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19...zeneca-jabs-says-medicines-regulator-12263543

OMG, I have to tell you, I have a co-worker in the UK (I am in the US), he is in pharmacology there. He said that the AZ vaccine issues are all politically motivated.
The AZ vaccine was developed at Oxford Univ. He said that is was the German press that sensationalized the side effects but that they were not out of the normal side effects reported. He said it was political because of Brexit and that Europe is mad at the UK!
I told him it was just like here, IMO. lol.

 

[AndreaA]

My personal situation actually is particularly relevant to my anxiety. First, my Hashimoto’s thyroiditis was so severe when it started that it was diagnosed as lupus and then no one knew what the symptoms were - I was in and out of doctor and ER for over a year. Then I was diagnosed with fibroids but they were “no big deal”. I went on Nuvaring birth control and within a year they had grown so that I looked 3mo pregnant. The “simple” myomectomy to remove them took 4 hrs and I needed a blood transfusion. IVF gave me a textbook twin pregnancy and then a routine 2wk early c-section gave me 8lb and 7lb boys but left me hospitalized for two weeks, hooked to the wall and multiple IVs, having multiple x-rays and ultrasounds to see why my intestines wouldn’t start working again.

So yeah, I’ve seen that medicine may be a science, but it’s not a perfect science, So when a brand new drug comes along and it’s supposed to be the key to “the new normal” I can’t help but remember all the other supposedly easy things that were supposed to happen for me...

I do hope that everyone takes care and is protecting themselves and those around them no matter what they ultimately decide.