Am I the only one NERVOUS about the vaccine? And I’m very PRO-VAX

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

You still haven’t given any evidence of your claim that vaccine immunity is better than natural immunity.

Uh. The natural way didn't work for Smallpox in over at least 3,000 years. Vaccines took less than 200. Once we finally made the worldwide effort to eradicate it, with vaccines, it took just 13 years from 67-79. to do what the "natural way" couldn't in over 3,000. Letting Covid19 run rampant and kill millions to achieve some sort of "natural immunity" is folly. It simply isn't an option. I would think a clinical trial researcher for big pharma would know these things.

Is this enough? If not, I can link more.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thecon...tter-immunity-than-an-actual-infection-145476
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...ty-than-infection-wellness-partner/index.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/12/05/health/covid-natural-immunity.amp.html
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-01180-x
https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-226857/v1
https://www.texmed.org/TexasMedicineDetail.aspx?id=52584
https://www.acsh.org/news/2021/03/19/natural-immunity-or-vaccination-better-15409
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20201120-why-you-really-dont-want-to-catch-covid-19
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09...e-better-immunity-infection-covid-19/12668050
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...a929e596-9218-11eb-ad98-1ba4861d7286.amp.html

 

[disney4us2002]

That’s true, but there are millions more who can say it hasn’t had that affect on them. We had one family member (SIL) who got it. Only symptom was mild fatigue. Her kids and husband didn’t get it. A girl in my son’s ballet class had it. She was sick for one day. No one else in the class contracted it. I literally do not even personally know one other person who’s had it, nevermind had a severe case. I’m sure that plays into my vaccine hesitancy, and that of others. Tough to take a risk on a vaccine not having long term consequences when the virus has an extremely high survival rate for most people.


Where do you work that you are so sure that pharmaceutical companies are always perfect and quick to admit any mistakes? There are many class-action law-suits which say otherwise...

Let’s face it, these vaccines WERE rushed. No two ways about it. And yay, they seem to work and seem to (hopefully) help more people than they are injuring. But let’s not pretend that issues might not crop up. I’ve read multiple quotes from doctors associated with the AZ clotting cases who say they have no doubt that the vaccine caused the issue. Now it looks like the J&J vaccine might have a similar issue.

But instead of people saying, “whoa, maybe we should slow down because any death is one too many” - a la when everyone said we needed to shut down the world because one death was one too many even though other people were dying and suffering BECAUSE of the shutdowns - it’s still “full speed ahead, because we’re helping more people than we’re hurting”. Well every one of those people who die have families, just like those who die of covid have families. And maybe it’s a risk vs return situation and we just need to accept that, but it’s pretty callous to just dismiss concerns out of hand. Of course I also thought it was callous to dismiss the concerns of those who were losing their jobs, homes, and very lives (suicide) due to covid restrictions.

EVERY life matters, and shutting down RATIONAL fears/uncertainty as being “irrational” or “ignorant” is itself ignorant. After all, when the first few people died after the AZ vaccine, most were shushing anyone who voiced concerns that it might be a real problem. Now lo and behold it’s a real problem and the vaccine is no longer being used in certain cohorts.

I’m sure the people who designed the AZ and J&J vaccines never thought they’d cause clotting issues. No one would produce a vaccine that they thought would hurt people - that’s the point, it’s UNKNOWN.

Now I’m signed up to get the Pfizer vaccine tomorrow, but I sure as heck won’t get any vaccine for my 12 yr old boys.

It seemed as though you were heading one way and then your conclusion was a 360. Color me confused.

I do not believe as stated in a post above that I am misinformed either. I just don't see a dire need as some others apparently do.

 

[Princessclab]

Yes, I’m in research & you’re right that companies need to file annual reports but so many side effects go unreported outside of clinical trials. That is why it takes so many bad events for something to actually gain traction & get an approval overturned.

have you ever had a reaction to anything? If so did you report it to the company or the FDA? Odds are no you didn’t. It is a function of nobody realizes they are supposed to do this & often doctors or patients make their own assessment of if it is drug related or not without reporting it.

what is your source that we have vigorous reporting of AE’s once on the market?

Well, not neccesarily true. Have you ever worked in post market vigellience? Patients and companies rely on the healthcare system to protect them by reporting issues; it happens all of the time.

Also, anything that is reported to the company, FDA or any other government body is reviewed and reported. That is true whether it is a sneeze or a life threatening issue or a death. If people choose not to report things, usually they are ok with the side effects (if they really know it is from the drug etc .) because it is considered acceptable and can be considered a possibility which is based on the clinical research done.

No drug etc. is without its 'side effects' because something foreign is being put into the body. There is not one thing in healthcare that is done to the body that is 100% safe and no company will ever say that.
That does not mean a drug etc. is unsafe; as you know it is not really unsafe unless it is life threatening and/or there is an escalation of clinical issues.
A certain drug or treatment may not be safe for a certain patient population but does not not mean it is unsafe for others.
The whole global heathcare system has been based on this and has proven to be pretty successful .

 

[Princessclab]

Yes, I’m in research & you’re right that companies need to file annual reports but so many side effects go unreported outside of clinical trials. That is why it takes so many bad events for something to actually gain traction & get an approval overturned.

have you ever had a reaction to anything? If so did you report it to the company or the FDA? Odds are no you didn’t. It is a function of nobody realizes they are supposed to do this & often doctors or patients make their own assessment of if it is drug related or not without reporting it.

what is your source that we have vigorous reporting of AE’s once on the market?

Well, not neccesarily true. Have you ever worked in post market vigellience? Patients and companies rely on the healthcare system to protect them by reporting issues; it happens all of the time.

Also, anything that is reported to the company, FDA or any other government body is reviewed and reported. That is true whether it is a sneeze or a life threatening issue or a death. If people choose not to report things, usually they are ok with the side effects (if they really know it is from the drug etc .) because it is considered acceptable and can be considered a possibility which is based on the clinical research done.

No drug etc. is without its 'side effects' because something foreign is being put into the body. There is not one thing in healthcare that is done to the body that is 100% safe and no company will ever say that.
That does not mean a drug etc. is unsafe; as you know it is not really unsafe unless it is life threatening and/or there is an escalation of clinical issues.
A certain drug or treatment may not be safe for a certain patient population but does not not mean it is unsafe for others.
The whole global heathcare system has been based on this and has proven to be pretty successful .

That’s true, but there are millions more who can say it hasn’t had that affect on them. We had one family member (SIL) who got it. Only symptom was mild fatigue. Her kids and husband didn’t get it. A girl in my son’s ballet class had it. She was sick for one day. No one else in the class contracted it. I literally do not even personally know one other person who’s had it, nevermind had a severe case. I’m sure that plays into my vaccine hesitancy, and that of others. Tough to take a risk on a vaccine not having long term consequences when the virus has an extremely high survival rate for most people.


Where do you work that you are so sure that pharmaceutical companies are always perfect and quick to admit any mistakes? There are many class-action law-suits which say otherwise...

Let’s face it, these vaccines WERE rushed. No two ways about it. And yay, they seem to work and seem to (hopefully) help more people than they are injuring. But let’s not pretend that issues might not crop up. I’ve read multiple quotes from doctors associated with the AZ clotting cases who say they have no doubt that the vaccine caused the issue. Now it looks like the J&J vaccine might have a similar issue.

But instead of people saying, “whoa, maybe we should slow down because any death is one too many” - a la when everyone said we needed to shut down the world because one death was one too many even though other people were dying and suffering BECAUSE of the shutdowns - it’s still “full speed ahead, because we’re helping more people than we’re hurting”. Well every one of those people who die have families, just like those who die of covid have families. And maybe it’s a risk vs return situation and we just need to accept that, but it’s pretty callous to just dismiss concerns out of hand. Of course I also thought it was callous to dismiss the concerns of those who were losing their jobs, homes, and very lives (suicide) due to covid restrictions.

EVERY life matters, and shutting down RATIONAL fears/uncertainty as being “irrational” or “ignorant” is itself ignorant. After all, when the first few people died after the AZ vaccine, most were shushing anyone who voiced concerns that it might be a real problem. Now lo and behold it’s a real problem and the vaccine is no longer being used in certain cohorts.

I’m sure the people who designed the AZ and J&J vaccines never thought they’d cause clotting issues. No one would produce a vaccine that they thought would hurt people - that’s the point, it’s UNKNOWN.

Now I’m signed up to get the Pfizer vaccine tomorrow, but I sure as heck won’t get any vaccine for my 12 yr old boys.

I am RN with and advanced graduate degree which only means I know the logistics of it. My experience has been on both sides, the research study site where there are the subjects in the study and the company sponsoring the research to get a drug/medical device to market. my first research job was at a big university known for their research and medical school. Of course it was not perfect but I learned alot about research and what it involves.

If you had knowledge about the scientific vaccine process you would know that the vaccines were not rushed, as you put it. Healthcare people are not dimissing people's concern, we are just trying to educate.

The healthcare people are doing what we are obligated to do by our profession, trying to protect people from illness and disease. This is what we do.
If you choose not to take the advice, will you go to get healthcare if you do get Covid and it is severe? Covid does not descriminate. Will you be taking resources from someone who did their best to protect theselves and others and got it anyways?
Rhetorical question.....
I am pretty sure that no one has died from unemployment.
There are many resources to help people

 

[Princessclab]

Well, not neccesarily true. Have you ever worked in post market vigellience? Patients and companies rely on the healthcare system to protect them by reporting issues; it happens all of the time.

Also, anything that is reported to the company, FDA or any other government body is reviewed and reported. That is true whether it is a sneeze or a life threatening issue or a death. If people choose not to report things, usually they are ok with the side effects (if they really know it is from the drug etc .) because it is considered acceptable and can be considered a possibility which is based on the clinical research done.

No drug etc. is without its 'side effects' because something foreign is being put into the body. There is not one thing in healthcare that is done to the body that is 100% safe and no company will ever say that.
That does not mean a drug etc. is unsafe; as you know it is not really unsafe unless it is life threatening and/or there is an escalation of clinical issues.
A certain drug or treatment may not be safe for a certain patient population but does not not mean it is unsafe for others.
The whole global heathcare system has been based on this and has proven to be pretty successful .



I am RN with and advanced graduate degree which only means I know the logistics of it. My experience has been on both sides, the research study site where there are the subjects in the study and the company sponsoring the research to get a drug/medical device to market. my first research job was at a big university known for their research and medical school. Of course it was not perfect but I learned alot about research and what it involves.

If you had knowledge about the scientific vaccine process you would know that the vaccines were not rushed, as you put it. Healthcare people are not dimissing people's concern, we are just trying to educate.

The healthcare people are doing what we are obligated to do by our profession, trying to protect people from illness and disease. This is what we do.
If you choose not to take the advice, will you go to get healthcare if you do get Covid and it is severe? Covid does not descriminate. Will you be taking resources from someone who did their best to protect theselves and others and got it anyways?
Rhetorical question.....
I am pretty sure that no one has died from unemployment.
There are many resources to help people

Oh my gosh, not, not sure why my messages were combined and repeated....sorry for this!
Too wordy, sorry!!!

 

[tink2424]

Is this enough? If not, I can link more.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thecon...tter-immunity-than-an-actual-infection-145476
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...ty-than-infection-wellness-partner/index.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/12/05/health/covid-natural-immunity.amp.html
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-01180-x
https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-226857/v1
https://www.texmed.org/TexasMedicineDetail.aspx?id=52584
https://www.acsh.org/news/2021/03/19/natural-immunity-or-vaccination-better-15409
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20201120-why-you-really-dont-want-to-catch-covid-19
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09...e-better-immunity-infection-covid-19/12668050
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...a929e596-9218-11eb-ad98-1ba4861d7286.amp.html

Did you actually read these? They actually make my point for me. 3 of them are the exact same article reprinted in different websites. The only one that is remotely on your side is the one study and that study had limitations as well. You can’t site opinion pieces as evidence especially when half of them are from 6 months ago & say they really don’t know.

Now I agree that if there is a safe vaccine that is preferable to getting COVID immunity than getting the virus. I never said otherwise. I do question the safety of these vaccines as well as the one size fits all approach.

So thanks for sending these but all they really did is reinforce what I have been saying... you are spreading misinformation.

 

[disney4us2002]

If you choose not to take the advice, will you go to get healthcare if you do get Covid and it is severe? Covid does not descriminate. Will you be taking resources from someone who did their best to protect theselves and others and got it anyways?

Is this even for real? From an RN? Do you blame cancer on smokers and heart disease on overeaters? How dare they seek treatment. No one to my knowledge has said to hell with precautions and are hanging out unmasked and "asking" for COVID. I am glad my doctor and her staff are not as rude and callous.

 

[AndreaA]

The healthcare people are doing what we are obligated to do by our profession, trying to protect people from illness and disease. This is what we do.
If you choose not to take the advice, will you go to get healthcare if you do get Covid and it is severe? Covid does not descriminate. Will you be taking resources from someone who did their best to protect theselves and others and got it anyways?
Rhetorical question.....
I am pretty sure that no one has died from unemployment.
There are many resources to help people

Have you missed the multiple stories about people committing suicide, and especially young people - teenagers - killing themselves due in large part to depression brought on by school closures?

My point isn’t that people shouldn’t take the vaccine. Apparently you also missed the part where I am getting vaccinated? My point is that it isn’t cut and dried. As mentioned by YOU, not every drug works for every person, but that’s exactly what we’re doing - giving the vaccine to everyone and not even really pausing when a snag is hit. How about doing more research to see exactly who is affected by the clotting issues BEFORE continuing to give it out? Because if some young woman “follows the advice” and is then hospitalized with complications, will all those who didn’t get a reaction be paying her hospital bills? Taking care of her children?

Your suggestion that anyone who doesn’t immediately rush to get vaccinated with a BRAND NEW DRUG doesn’t deserve medical care that HAS been researched for decades is honestly disgusting. That attitude in someone who works in healthcare is just disturbing. Do you also think obese people shouldn’t be treated because they didn’t listen to advice and let themselves get fat? Drug addicts shouldn’t be helped because they’re taking up a bed that someone who didn’t hurt themselves could be using? Really, where does that train of thought end? Eeesh.

 

[tink2424]

Oh, ok. It doesn't appear that you understand the whole picture. In my experience everyone works really hard to make sure errors of the past are not repeated.

Have you been directly involved in the extensive analysis involved before something is sent for market approval? As a study manager you may not be involved in the statistical and clinical significance and Regulatory steps past the study itself. This does not stop once a study is done, there are many more steps involved.
My question is why is the study not collecting safety data? Is there no IRB involved?

Are you saying the studies you work on give money to subjects? This is considered biased and very unethical in the industry.
Reimbursing subjects for their expenses is not paying a person to participate in research.
Are you reporting this unethical practice to the FDA to protect subjects, which you are obligated to do?
Your statements just do not appear to sound like some one involved in research. I hope I am wrong.
I have been in research and healthcare for many years, I do not want people to think that there are not ethical researchers.
Best of luck to you.....

Not sure where to start with all of this...

1. Yes, I’m very aware of the extensive analysis of data as well as the limitations of what is reviewed & analyzed.
2. I am not running these vaccine trials so I can’t tell you why they didn’t collect safety data directly related to the vaccine. You should ask the manufacturers why they didn’t do that & maybe ask the FDA why they accepted that as I have never heard of that before across my many trials as well none of my colleagues have ever heard of that. And while IRBs can be very good I find more often than not they aren’t protecting study participants as well as they should. The local IRBs tend to be better than the central IRBs.
3. Yes, pretty much all studies give money to trial participants but it is usually nominal ($25 per visit, although sometimes more if the visits are longer or more invasive) so that is why I was astounded to hear that the vaccine trials were paying $1000 or more for study participation... that is coercive in my mind & how the IRBs approved that I will never understand. And no I haven’t reported this the the FDA as 1 they probably already know & don’t care & 2 I only have information off the internet from these forums which is not the best source but several posters have sworn that this is the case.

At the end of the day I can see the limitations that exist in pharma as well as the politics of the FDA. These vaccines were rushed & safety was not adequately studied. I can tell you that if I had been on these studies I would have quit as they are so far out of the norm of what is considered acceptable that I wouldn’t be able to live with myself being involved with a trial like these.

Since it sounds like you have some knowledge of trials how can you support these vaccines knowing how wrong these 2 practices are? You yourself said the payments were coercive & that all safety should be collected. So if we know they went out of bounds for these 2 aspects what else did they do wrong that we don’t know about?

Pharma is filled with a lot of good people & a lot of people who think the ends justifies the means. So they may have believed that the benefits out way the risks but for me I’m going to take a look at all the evidence & make my own conclusions.

 

[AndreaA]

Is this even for real? From an RN? Do you blame cancer on smokers and heart disease on overeaters? How dare they seek treatment. No one to my knowledge has said to hell with precautions and are hanging out unmasked and "asking" for COVID. I am glad my doctor and her staff are not as rude and callous.

Right???? I couldn’t believe what I was reading!

 

[tink2424]

I was advised to report my adverse reaction to my doctor, who referred me to an allergist for final opinion on whether it was safe to get the 2nd Pfizer shot.

Maybe checking with an allergist will be helpful.

Did you also report your reaction to VAERS?

 

[Princessclab]

Is this even for real? From an RN? Do you blame cancer on smokers and heart disease on overeaters? How dare they seek treatment. No one to my knowledge has said to hell with precautions and are hanging out unmasked and "asking" for COVID. I am glad my doctor and her staff are not as rude and callous.

No bad intent meant, it has nothing to do with being rude or callous. That might be the problem that peopk believe that. Ther are only so many resources.
Do you know what rhetorical means? It was a question to make people think about what is really happening in our healthcare system.
Personal responsibilty is a real thing even though people are not held to be responsible....
No, I am not perfect and have my own, probably self-inflicted health issues, so I am in the group.
It is just that with Covid that resources are/were limited and people did not get the care they were entitled to because of a variety of issues.

You are lucky they were able to take care of you, what would think if they just couldn't? This is very real whether people want to hear this or not.
Take care.

 

[RamblingMad]

Have you missed the multiple stories about people committing suicide, and especially young people - teenagers - killing themselves due in large part to depression brought on by school closures?

My point isn’t that people shouldn’t take the vaccine. Apparently you also missed the part where I am getting vaccinated? My point is that it isn’t cut and dried. As mentioned by YOU, not every drug works for every person, but that’s exactly what we’re doing - giving the vaccine to everyone and not even really pausing when a snag is hit. How about doing more research to see exactly who is affected by the clotting issues BEFORE continuing to give it out? Because if some young woman “follows the advice” and is then hospitalized with complications, will all those who didn’t get a reaction be paying her hospital bills? Taking care of her children?

Your suggestion that anyone who doesn’t immediately rush to get vaccinated with a BRAND NEW DRUG doesn’t deserve medical care that HAS been researched for decades is honestly disgusting. That attitude in someone who works in healthcare is just disturbing. Do you also think obese people shouldn’t be treated because they didn’t listen to advice and let themselves get fat? Drug addicts shouldn’t be helped because they’re taking up a bed that someone who didn’t hurt themselves could be using? Really, where does that train of thought end? Eeesh.

What are your choices? Don't get it and live with the consequences. If enough people do this, then we can continue with our limitations indefinitely. We will never reach her immunity. If you get the vaccine, then you have to deal with any ill effects, which impact a very, very tiny population. In the UK, they're advising against AZ for the younger population, so they're giving them Moderna instead. We do have choices.

So should everyone get it, and we lift limitations? Or should we let people not get it, and live with limitations for the foreseeable future? Take your pick.

 

[tink2424]

Uh. The natural way didn't work for Smallpox in over at least 3,000 years. Vaccines took less than 200. Once we finally made the worldwide effort to eradicate it, with vaccines, it took just 13 years from 67-79. to do what the "natural way" couldn't in over 3,000. Letting Covid19 run rampant and kill millions to achieve some sort of "natural immunity" is folly. It simply isn't an option. I would think a clinical trial researcher for big pharma would know these things.

That wasn’t the argument. The OP said that vaccine immunity was better than natural immunity & she was wrong. None of her evidence even said that. It said either we don’t know or natural immunity is better but we don’t know how long it lasts.

 

[leahgoogle]

Uh. The natural way didn't work for Smallpox in over at least 3,000 years. Vaccines took less than 200. Once we finally made the worldwide effort to eradicate it, with vaccines, it took just 13 years from 67-79. to do what the "natural way" couldn't in over 3,000. Letting Covid19 run rampant and kill millions to achieve some sort of "natural immunity" is folly. It simply isn't an option. I would think a clinical trial researcher for big pharma would know these things.

Smallpox was a different beast. It killed 3 out of 10 who contracted it. Covid works differently. It will more than likely become like the common cold.

https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-common-cold-virus-future.html

 

[AndreaA]

What are your choices? Don't get it and live with the consequences. If enough people do this, then we can continue with our limitations indefinitely. We will never reach her immunity. If you get the vaccine, then you have to deal with any ill effects, which impact a very, very tiny population. In the UK, they're advising against AZ for the younger population, so they're giving them Moderna instead. We do have choices.

So should everyone get it, and we lift limitations? Or should we let people not get it, and live with limitations for the foreseeable future? Take your pick.

Or, third choice, actually take a little more time to investigate the issues which have cropped up with all the vaccines - clotting issues with AZ and J&J, bleeding issues with Pfizer. Even if all they find is the reason those things happened to THOSE PEOPLE, that would be enough because then we could screen for that and keep those at risk just as safe as those who can get the vaccines without adverse affects. I mean that still doesn’t address the issues that could crop up 15 years down the road, but hell, maybe taking the time to stop and investigate the current issues would lead to other issues being stopped as well.

 

[leahgoogle]

What are your choices? Don't get it and live with the consequences. If enough people do this, then we can continue with our limitations indefinitely. We will never reach her immunity. If you get the vaccine, then you have to deal with any ill effects, which impact a very, very tiny population. In the UK, they're advising against AZ for the younger population, so they're giving them Moderna instead. We do have choices.

So should everyone get it, and we lift limitations? Or should we let people not get it, and live with limitations for the foreseeable future? Take your pick.

See, that statement there is where many have a problem. It is a personal choice. There should be no "letting or not letting" involved. Especially with this being an experimental and "emergency" use vaccine.

 

[fortwildernessishome]

No one to my knowledge has said to hell with precautions and are hanging out unmasked and "asking" for COVID.

There are plenty of folks on the Dis and some are participating in this very thread that have quite proudly stated that they are hanging out unmasked and basically to hell with precautions! They arent going to "live in fear", they go out and "live life" and have no worries about Covid at all.

 

[RamblingMad]

See, that statement there is where many have a problem. It is a personal choice. There should be no "letting or not letting" involved. Especially with this being an experimental and "emergency" use vaccine.

So we don't reach herd immunity, and we never, ever see Disney fireworks in person again. Great plan.

 

[leahgoogle]

So we don't reach herd immunity, and we never, ever see Disney fireworks in person again. Great plan.

We will get to herd immunity one way or another, don't worry. But, yes, I would forgo fireworks to make sure the vaccine I am injecting into my body is safe for me. I went to Disney last October and still had a great time without the fireworks.