Am I the only "mean" mom during the summer?

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Disneyrsh said:
No where in my martyr quote did I state that working moms did not raise productive children. The post referred to the fact that raising children is a very tough job that requires a lot of dedication.

That's it.

You are muddying the waters by pulling that old chestnut "I turned out ok".

It has nothing to do with the topic.

Again, when people use words like "abusing their kids" and "uncaring neglectful working moms" the argument devolves as people start accusing each other of actually USING those words on each other.

Your martyr quote (and actually the rest of your gems on this topic) insinuated that you are a superior parent because you stay at home. Since Working Moms do everything in your martyr quote PLUS work a full time job, I don't see why you needed to throw it in for any reason other than to emphasize how superior of a parent you are.
You are after all the one that started throwing stones at working Moms. So really if you're going to accuse anyone of muddying the waters I'd suggest you look in the mirror first.
 
Children need HAPPY moms. I just recently quit working to be a full-time mom (my dd is 4) because I felt like I was missing SOO much of her childhood. She was not in daycare and didn't have a nanny....she came to work with me, but that was hard on her, too. But, if a mom is unhappy being a stay-at-home mom...then, by all means, work. This is not a one-size-fits-all solution. No one thinks less of a dad who continues to work after the birth of a child...why should anyone think less of a woman who does the same. If I ever truly felt that I was "sacrificing" to be home with my dd, I would RUN to get a job!! I am LUCKY to get to stay home. We had to move across the country to a cheaper area to make this happen, and we are thrilled to be here. If you feel you are sacrificing something to be with your kids...this has got to be affecting them. My mom (who, btw was single and worked), used to tell us EVERYTIME we needed anything, "I hope you girls realize how much I sacrifice for you. Where would you be if I ran off like your father did?" Did she sacrifice for us? Yes. Were her sacrifices TOTALLY overshadowed by her bitterness? Absolutely.

I also think that families who choose to have mom stay home, with the result being that kids have NO exposure to activities that cost, are making their children sacrifice for the choices they made. These children, at best never develop the skills that boost confidence, and at worst, have too much time on their hands. I taught a neighbor girl for free at my children's theatre because I felt SOO sorry for her. She was 16 and never had any activities that were non-school related outside of the home. I thought if I got her involved in theatre, she would be SOOO happy. Instead, she spent 2 years at a studio, feel ing bad because all the girls could dance, sing, and run circles around her in the acting arena....they had been in lessons since they were 5. This young girl couldn't keep up. She had three younger siblings, and broke down one day in lessons. She asked my why her parents had her if they weren't willing to make the sacrifices needed to give her opportunities. She wondered if she was "this far behind" in everything. She resented her mom and dad, moved out the DAY she turned 18, got a job at a daycare (babysitting her siblings was her primary focus job in the home), and is looking for a "husband". Before I moved, I asked her what she wanted to be when she grew up....her reply, "Well, I don't think there are many things I can do....but, I know I can raise kids. I'll probably just get married and be a mom." She has had NO experiences to build her self-esteem and find her "niche", and she is 18 and floundering. This young lady desperately needed a mom who pushed her out of her safety zone. She needed LOTS of experiences so that she could have some idea who she is.

I am not saying that all SAHM's are bad (I am a SAHM). But honestly, some women stay at home because they are too lazy or selfish to go to work, not becuase they have a "burning desire" to make sure their kids get attention.

Likewise, I know many moms who have taken part-time jobs JUST to support their kids' activity "habits". Rather than tell their dd, "I'm sorry honey, you can't try out for cheerleader because we don't have the $2500 you'd need for the season", they get a job to cover the cost. Children's activities are expensive....but, in my mind, they are PRICELESS for teaching your children that they CAN excel physically, and learn to depend on themselves. I don't necessarily think cheerleading is a skill my dd needs, but the passion with which she approaches "practices" (she is only 4) is AMAZING!!! My dd is small for her age, and has already been pegged as the "flyer" in her classes (a term I didn't even know about 6 months ago), and is SOOO excited everytime she gets on top of a pyramid. She is accomplishing things at 4 that I could not have done at 8. If the choice came to my family of me getting a part-time job, or pulling my dd out of cheer, gymnastics and dance....well, there is no choice in my family. I would certainly sacrifice my free time to support my dd's "habit". And, unlike my mom, my dd will never know any of my "sacrifices", all she hears is how glad I am that God chose to put her in my tummy...and, how amazed I am at how he knew to pick just the perfect baby for me....I wouldn't have wanted any other baby but her!!!
 

Crankyshank said:
Since Working Moms do everything in your quote PLUS work a full time job
.


I absolutely disagree with this statement. It is physically impossible for a woman who works a full time job to spend as much time with her children as one who stays with them all day.

You CAN'T do everything that I do with my kids unless you give up sleeping.

And that's your priority. If you read back, what I said was, originally, "well, we all have our priorities", not, "well, we all have our priorities and yours are bad."

They're different, and they're certainly not MY priorities. Do I think my way of doing things is better? Well, yeah, because otherwise I'd have to change!

Are a lot of people getting really angry because I feel I'm doing it right? Evidently!!!!
 
Disneyrsh said:
Are a lot of people getting really angry because I feel I'm doing it right? Evidently!!!!

Nope, because you assume that what you are doing is right for everyone!
 
Beca said:
I also think that families who choose to have mom stay home, with the result being that kids have NO exposure to activities that cost, are making their children sacrifice for the choices they made. These children, at best never develop the skills that boost confidence, and at worst, have too much time on their hands. I taught a neighbor girl for free at my children's theatre because I felt SOO sorry for her. She was 16 and never had any activities that were non-school related outside of the home. I thought if I got her involved in theatre, she would be SOOO happy. Instead, she spent 2 years at a studio, feel ing bad because all the girls could dance, sing, and run circles around her in the acting arena....they had been in lessons since they were 5. This young girl couldn't keep up. She had three younger siblings, and broke down one day in lessons. She asked my why her parents had her if they weren't willing to make the sacrifices needed to give her opportunities. She wondered if she was "this far behind" in everything. She resented her mom and dad, moved out the DAY she turned 18, got a job at a daycare (babysitting her siblings was her primary focus job in the home), and is looking for a "husband". Before I moved, I asked her what she wanted to be when she grew up....her reply, "Well, I don't think there are many things I can do....but, I know I can raise kids. I'll probably just get married and be a mom." She has had NO experiences to build her self-esteem and find her "niche", and she is 18 and floundering. This young lady desperately needed a mom who pushed her out of her safety zone. She needed LOTS of experiences so that she could have some idea who she is.

I am not saying that all SAHM's are bad (I am a SAHM). But honestly, some women stay at home because they are too lazy or selfish to go to work, not becuase they have a "burning desire" to make sure their kids get attention.

Likewise, I know many moms who have taken part-time jobs JUST to support their kids' activity "habits". Rather than tell their dd, "I'm sorry honey, you can't try out for cheerleader because we don't have the $2500 you'd need for the season", they get a job to cover the cost. Children's activities are expensive....but, in my mind, they are PRICELESS for teaching your children that they CAN excel physically, and learn to depend on themselves. I don't necessarily think cheerleading is a skill my dd needs, but the passion with which she approaches "practices" (she is only 4) is AMAZING!!! My dd is small for her age, and has already been pegged as the "flyer" in her classes (a term I didn't even know about 6 months ago), and is SOOO excited everytime she gets on top of a pyramid. She is accomplishing things at 4 that I could not have done at 8. If the choice came to my family of me getting a part-time job, or pulling my dd out of cheer, gymnastics and dance....well, there is no choice in my family. I would certainly sacrifice my free time to support my dd's "habit". And, unlike my mom, my dd will never know any of my "sacrifices", all she hears is how glad I am that God chose to put her in my tummy...and, how amazed I am at how he knew to pick just the perfect baby for me....I wouldn't have wanted any other baby but her!!!

My goodness. Interesting idea. So all of the families (whether 1 or 2 income families) unable to afford or unwilling to put forth the ridiculous prices of these activities are depriving their children? Frankly any kid who is too spoiled to live a happy life without cheerleading, dance etc., is pretty sad. What a spoiled brat. One doesn't have to live extravagantly to live well, IMO. I see those spending so much to be just another sign of one generation living out their issues through their children's lives.

"My mom wouldn't let me take ballet and horseback, so my daughter will do both, and throw in soccer and piano...because I wish I could play those too."

I think kids should know when people are making sacrifices for them. (Not a continual martydom) Our kids know that life is not a free ride. 3 kids in college means weekend day trips this year, rather than weeklong Disney trips. That is a sacrifice, and one well worth making. How will kids learn that they too will be making those choices when they are adults?
 
popcorn:: :drinking1 (what happened to the beer mug - there used to be one, wasn't there!?)

anyway, this IS like a train wreck, isn't it...

can't believe the mods have let this go on...and on...
 
Disneyrsh said:
And one more thing; for the woman who posted "frankly, being a stay at home mom isn't that tough", well, then, you're not doing it right.

I'm not a "martyr", I have no plans on dying for my cause, :rotfl: , I recognize, though, that raising kids to go out into the world and make a positive contribution, not just take up space on our increasingly overburdened planet, takes work, forethought, planning, and a he** of a lot of dedication, every day.

So where does that fall under 'not so tough'?
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Thanks for letting me know I was doing it wrong - I've always wondered about that!!!!

Let me go give my children the update - they've always known I was wrong about everything anyway, so this will make them very happy!!!!

A question for you - what will happen if your daughters decide to do it differently than you? Will you tell them they're doing it wrong, too? I ask because my mother had a friend who felt very strongly that if you weren't going to stay at home, you shouldn't have chidlren. I think she even asked my mom why I had a baby if I had to go back to work. Oddly enough, that woman now has a very close relationship with the daughter who did stay home, and is almost estranged from the working one. Is that what you want to happen to your daughters when they aren't 6 and 7 anymore, but 26 and 27, or 36 and 37??? I always wonder how girls work those issues out with their husbands when mama is in the background carping about their choices...
 
Disneyrsh said:
I absolutely disagree with this statement. It is physically impossible for a woman who works a full time job to spend as much time with her children as one who stays with them all day.

You CAN'T do everything that I do with my kids unless you give up sleeping.

Precisely why I'm a night nurse and work 7p-7a 2 nights a week. My husband is home with them when I'm at work. When they were babies, my mother watched them while I slept for 5 or so hours during the day. Regardless, I'd still work even if I didn't have the night option.

If I could have been a SAHM while my kids were babies and preschool, I would have done it because it would have been a heck of a lot easier than being a full time Mom and a Part time or full time worker. Sorry, that's just fact. You don't worry less, plan less, clean less, play less, talk less, etc because you work. You have to take away from your own personal time to do both. So while you're watching TV at night and sleeping next to your husband, I'm working.

I chose to work because any woman that can make $50,000 a year in 2 nights worth of work and doesn't, is a darn fool.

I chose to work because I want my kids to be able to go to college.

I chose to work because my husband should only have to work one job and not feel the weight of the world on his shoulders.

I chose to work because I'd have a nervous breakdown if my bathroom roof were falling down.

I chose to work because my parents worked darn hard to send me to college and was I supposed to burn my Bachelor's Degree when I had my first baby at 24 years old?

I chose to work because I chose to set the example for my children that both parents should be cooking, cleaning, playing, shopping, worrying, and working. You see, by me working, my husband is one of the most superior parents I've ever seen and could put any woman to shame. I have many friends whose husbands can't bathe a kid, give a kid medicine, cook for a kid, or take a kid to a birthday party. Thank God, my DH is an absolutley EQUAL parent to me.

I chose to work because I have a skill and a profession that is in demand and I almost feel I ethically have to practice Nursing because if I don't, who will? And don't we all want someone to take care of us, or our kids, or our parents if they ever had to go to the hospital?

Now that my kids are in school all day...what is it that I supposed to be doing for them if I'm not working? You're not spending time with them if they're in school.

Oh, and I have a Honda Accord and a Honda Odyssey...no BMW's here...they're hard to fit a family of 5 in.
 
Disneyrsh said:
I absolutely disagree with this statement. It is physically impossible for a woman who works a full time job to spend as much time with her children as one who stays with them all day.

You CAN'T do everything that I do with my kids unless you give up sleeping.

Well since my statement was that women who work can raise "
kids to go out into the world and make a positive contribution, not just take up space on our increasingly overburdened planet, takes work, forethought, planning, and a he** of a lot of dedication, every day" Plus work a full time job you just contradicted your previous response of "No where in my martyr quote did I state that working moms did not raise productive children. The post referred to the fact that raising children is a very tough job that requires a lot of dedication." to me

You can spend 24/7 with your children and not have as much productive time spent with them as someone who only spends 4hrs a day plus weekends with their kids. It's about quality not quanity. So disagree all you want but in reality there's no reason why one can't work and manage to spend time with their kids and raise productive contributing citizens and also get sleep. I know plenty of them that do it and do it well.
 
Disneyrsh said:
I absolutely disagree with this statement. It is physically impossible for a woman who works a full time job to spend as much time with her children as one who stays with them all day.

You CAN'T do everything that I do with my kids unless you give up sleeping.

And that's your priority. If you read back, what I said was, originally, "well, we all have our priorities", not, "well, we all have our priorities and yours are bad."

They're different, and they're certainly not MY priorities. Do I think my way of doing things is better? Well, yeah, because otherwise I'd have to change!

Are a lot of people getting really angry because I feel I'm doing it right? Evidently!!!!

I was going to stay out of this, but...

You have absolutely no idea what any individual working mom's reasons are for working, and absolutely no justification for judging any of us. In my case I make CONSIDERABLY more than my DH. Yes, with my salary we can afford a pool membership and an occasional low budget Disney trip, but without my salary there is no way we could afford to live in even the modest house we live in and pay for more than the barest of necessities. (For the record, my DH is very hard working and very under paid.) Editing to clarify: you could look at my lifestyle from the outside and think, "she doesn't need to work; she's just paying for the pool membership, the vacations, the music lessons...", without knowing the whole story. And also to clarify that I hesitated to post this because I don't want it to seem disrespectful in any way to my - again - hardworking and underpaid DH.

You also have absolutely no idea what we working moms sacrifice so that we "can" work full time jobs and still spend time with our kids.

I know a LOT of working moms, and I don't know ONE who doesn't put their kids first. I don't know ONE who is working simply to pay for a luxurious lifestyle.

You owe working moms an apology. Seriously. I respect you for your decision to sacrifice extra income to stay home with your kids; please respect me for my decision to work to provide for them.
 
Barb D said:
I know a LOT of working moms, and I don't know ONE who doesn't put their kids first. I don't know ONE who is working simply to pay for a luxurious lifestyle.

I don't either. I know a couple that whine about working, and probably could quit if they looked at the issue in whole (only because they are not paid whta they are worth) but I don't know any living the high life, while their kids suffer.

This isn't a fight can be won, but some respect would be a good thing. In the end all of our kids will be running the world, and we should be supporting one another at raising the best generation possible.
 
noodleknitter said:
I don't either. I know a couple that whine about working, and probably could quit if they looked at the issue in whole (only because they are not paid whta they are worth) but I don't know any living the high life, while their kids suffer.

This isn't a fight can be won, but some respect would be a good thing. In the end all of our kids will be running the world, and we should be supporting one another at raising the best generation possible.

Exactly! Well said. My health benefits have always been much better than my husband's...another good reason to work.
 
Divamomto3 said:
Exactly! Well said. My health benefits have always been much better than my husband's...another good reason to work.

No kidding! Who would have ever thought that we would be planning our lives around healthcare?
 
noodleknitter said:
My goodness. Interesting idea. So all of the families (whether 1 or 2 income families) unable to afford or unwilling to put forth the ridiculous prices of these activities are depriving their children? Frankly any kid who is too spoiled to live a happy life without cheerleading, dance etc., is pretty sad. What a spoiled brat. One doesn't have to live extravagantly to live well, IMO. I see those spending so much to be just another sign of one generation living out their issues through their children's lives.

"My mom wouldn't let me take ballet and horseback, so my daughter will do both, and throw in soccer and piano...because I wish I could play those too."

I think kids should know when people are making sacrifices for them. (Not a continual martydom) Our kids know that life is not a free ride. 3 kids in college means weekend day trips this year, rather than weeklong Disney trips. That is a sacrifice, and one well worth making. How will kids learn that they too will be making those choices when they are adults?

You are certainly entitled to your opinions, but I find it very strange that you would respond with such animosity to my post.

There is a big difference between "living thru your children" and supporting their passions. My dd does not have a choice to not be active...I do require that of her, but the classes she takes are her interests, not mine. I would be just as happy to be a soccer mom...if that is what she chooses to do.

And to imply that my kid, or any other kid who lives for her interests is spoiled, is totally inappropriate.

On the part of sacrifice, we will just have to agree to disagree. How much money my family has or does not have is something my dd should not have to hear about. She is a child, and can do NOTHING about it. She has no concept of how much money we have or do not have, and I plan to keep it that way as long as possible.

Children can see and recognize that parents make sacrifices for them without having to remind them of it. I certainly would've respected those made by my mom if she had not reminded me of it every time I needed money for something. I used to feel so badly for being a "burden" to her, that I wouldn't tell her when I had a cavity because I didn't want her to stress about how to pay for it. For two years in elementary school, I would throw the health check notices away. Trust me....I was too well aware of how much we "didn't have".

Childhood is about "possibility". It is a time for activity, exploration and discovery. How can a girl dream of becoming a dancer if she is not allowed try her hand at it? Finding out who you are is often by way of finding out who you are not. I do see a parent's job as providing their children the opportunity to experience things. And, that is the way I choose to parent. These beliefs would not change whether I was a SAHM or a working one...I would do whatever I can to provide opportunities for my child.

And, as far as answering your question of "How will kids learn that they too will be making those choices when they are adults?" That is an easy answer....children learn by example. We all know that the best way to foster reading in young children is not to require a certain number of minutes reading per day, but rather to read to them, with them, and also spend time letting your children see YOU read. Have books that you love available in the home, and discuss some of your favorite stories. If they see that reading is something you love to do, they are more likely to read themselves.

The best way to teach children that family is a BIG deal, is to make family your first priority....whether you work in the home or out. The best way to make sure that your children know that children should be presented with lots of opportunities, is to provide lots of opportunities for your children. Just the wonderful memories of all the activities a child participated in is enough to make them want the same for their children.

The best way to encourage your child to be loving and supportive of their children, is to be loving and supportive of them. Trust me, they SEE the sacrifices. I don't buy a lot of clothes for myself. I often pick them out, and later put them back. I didn't think my dd noticed this at all. Seriously, I am a SAHM mom...I don't need a lot of clothes...it's not that big of deal to me...something cute will catch my eye, and then I will think better of it.

My dd needed new gymnastics clothes the other day (her torso is getting LONG), so we went to a dance studio to buy them. The sales girl made a comment to my dd about how "lucky she was" to be getting so many clothes. My dd acted shy and didn't say anything. My plan was to leave the studio and go to Toys r Us to buy her a new "floaty" swimsuit, as her other one was giving her a serious wedgy. My dd was very quiet, and when we pulled into the parking lot she finally said, "Mom, don't worry about buying me a swimsuit....really, Mom my other one is fine." I was FLOORED. I told her that her other one was NOT fine, and asked why she didn't want to buy one. She said, "You just spent all this money on me, but you put the clothes you wanted back the other day. I am really lucky, Mom. I don't need a new swimsuit...my old one is fine." I immediately called my dh, and was crying as I told him the story. Trust me....kids see
 
Are a lot of people getting really angry because I feel I'm doing it right? Evidently!!!!

Nahh--I think it's great that you feel you're doing it right. More power to you. I think people are getting angry over the superior attitude being displayed while you 'do it right'.

It's right for your family, and that's great. Your situation would not be the right one for my family, and again, those are just facts.
 
Beca said:
I also think that families who choose to have mom stay home, with the result being that kids have NO exposure to activities that cost, are making their children sacrifice for the choices they made. These children, at best never develop the skills that boost confidence, and at worst, have too much time on their hands.

:rotfl2: :rotfl: :rotfl2: :rotfl:

Seriously though, what makes you think that all SAHMs are broke? :confused3
 
Beca said:
You are certainly entitled to your opinions, but I find it very strange that you would respond with such animosity to my post.

There is a big difference between "living thru your children" and supporting their passions. My dd does not have a choice to not be active...I do require that of her, but the classes she takes are her interests, not mine. I would be just as happy to be a soccer mom...if that is what she chooses to do.

And to imply that my kid, or any other kid who lives for her interests is spoiled, is totally inappropriate.

On the part of sacrifice, we will just have to agree to disagree. How much money my family has or does not have is something my dd should not have to hear about. She is a child, and can do NOTHING about it. She has no concept of how much money we have or do not have, and I plan to keep it that way as long as possible.

Children can see and recognize that parents make sacrifices for them without having to remind them of it. I certainly would've respected those made by my mom if she had not reminded me of it every time I needed money for something. I used to feel so badly for being a "burden" to her, that I wouldn't tell her when I had a cavity because I didn't want her to stress about how to pay for it. For two years in elementary school, I would throw the health check notices away. Trust me....I was too well aware of how much we "didn't have".

Childhood is about "possibility". It is a time for activity, exploration and discovery. How can a girl dream of becoming a dancer if she is not allowed try her hand at it? Finding out who you are is often by way of finding out who you are not. I do see a parent's job as providing their children the opportunity to experience things. And, that is the way I choose to parent. These beliefs would not change whether I was a SAHM or a working one...I would do whatever I can to provide opportunities for my child.

And, as far as answering your question of "How will kids learn that they too will be making those choices when they are adults?" That is an easy answer....children learn by example. We all know that the best way to foster reading in young children is not to require a certain number of minutes reading per day, but rather to read to them, with them, and also spend time letting your children see YOU read. Have books that you love available in the home, and discuss some of your favorite stories. If they see that reading is something you love to do, they are more likely to read themselves.

The best way to teach children that family is a BIG deal, is to make family your first priority....whether you work in the home or out. The best way to make sure that your children know that children should be presented with lots of opportunities, is to provide lots of opportunities for your children. Just the wonderful memories of all the activities a child participated in is enough to make them want the same for their children.

Sorry, children who behave as the one described make me crazy. Her parents raised and supported her, and she storms off in a temper tantrum at 18. That family obviously had issues, and to put them all on the parent's not giving some lessons, etc. was ridiculous.

I have no clue whether your kid is spoiled or not. I do believe that if a child, or an adult needs something so silly to be happy, that is a problem. And children can be presented with multitudes of activities that do not require paren'ts to take out a second mortgage. To insinuate that a family unable to provide such expensive classes is not doing as much for their child as you are seems seriously judgmental.

You are right, in that children learn by example, but I also believe they learn by open verbal communication. I have no need to be covert with my kids. If they want to do something extravagant (one of mine is studying in France this fall) everyone knows that it will make for a tight budget. And then we talk about cuts we are willing to make (Disney) and those we are not willing to make (zoo and museum memberships).
 
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