Am I just old-fashioned?

[pperfectmom]

I couldn't believe what was on Lilo and Stitch this morning. My kids usually only watch a few cartoons a day just because most of them seem like junk. We almost always watch "Lilo & Stitch" and Pooh and sometimes Dora the Explorer. Today they had another character on-Kim Possible I think she was called. She had a tiny little waist and pants way too large, but, the thing that got me was that she had a belly shirt on!!!!!I don't want my 3 year old daughter thinking that is appropriate attire. Why would Disney mess with a perfectly good children's cartoon by adding stuff like this? I love Lilo because she is short and pudgy and wears muumuus(sp?). Also, I don't understand why Disney doesn't even show real cartoons like Mickey, Donald, Chip & Dale, etc. I know they have to own the rights to these, don't they? One of the reasons I agreed to let my husband sign us up for Dish network was so we could watch all the awesome cartoons. Needless to say, I am very disappointed in the offerings. Not only is Disney sorely lacking, but I can't find Bugs Bunny, Scooby Doo, Flintstones and so on, anywhere!!I know my kids would love these shows. What's up?

 

[lnh'smom]

well, if you are old fashioned, then I am too. There aren't that many cartoons my kids are allowed to watch either. They watch Dora and Diego and they also like Lilo and Stitch. There is some cartoon on Disney that is Mickey and all. Can't think of the name right now, maybe Mickey's Clubhouse or something? Anyways, we couldn't find any of the cartoons you talked about either so my husband found Looney Tunes to watch on the internet. Kids loved them so much that we ordered 2 Looney Tunes collections off Amazon. Now the kids can and would rather watch those!

 

[karmom27]

I agree as well. Mickey Mouse Clubhouse if pretty good, but it is not on very often and seems to be a weird times where I live.

My daughter actually prefers to watch the channel "boomerag" They show the old stuff I remember growing up like Tom and Jerry, Scooby, Finstones, smurfs, etc.

I wish as well that Disney had more classic cartoons.

Good luck!

 

[Chuck65]

Boomerang is an excellent choice for watching old cartoons. They don't offer much in the way of classic Bugs Bunny but they do have a lot of the older stuff. My kids really love Tom and Jerry. They would rather watch Boomerang than any of the other kids shows.

 

[NotUrsula]

Kim Possible is a character who is supposed to be 15 yo, and the show has been on for several years. It is also shown on the ABC broadcast network. It is not targeted at the preschool market, but at grade-school aged kids. I happen to love it, not only because it is well-written, but because it is one of only two kid's cartoons where the character's mother is portrayed as an educated woman with a serious career. (The other one is Rugrats, which I don't care for very much because of the rudeness of the characters.)

The classic Fab5 cartoons are shown in the show House of Mouse. The other cartoons you were asking about are Hanna-Barbera properties, and are shown quite frequently on the Cartoon Network.

BTW, if you're old-fashioned, then the so-called "belly shirt" should be no shock, as they have been showing up in girls' play clothes since the 1940's. I have plenty of photos from the 40's, 50's & 60's that have children wearing them; and I wore them all the time when I was 3, during the Kennedy administration, and through the Johnson, Nixon, and Ford administrations, too. I assure you that my parents were VERY conservative; but like most people of their generation they didn't impute sexual implications to exposed skin on children. (Here is a link to an 1940 Simplicity sewing pattern for play clothes in a size 12; note the midriff blouses: http://www.lanetzliving.net/inc/sdetail/5979)

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

I'm another Kim Possible fan. To me this show is about looking past the initial image you have of someone -- Kim is an attractive, teenage, girl who is on her school's cheerleading team, is very into fashion etc . . . She is also smart, independent, athletic, and very creative. Although at times she can appear like your stereotypical self-absorbed teenager, if you watch for more than a few minutes you realize that she's anything but. She also comes from a strong, functional family with 2 well educated, professional parents.

I'm going to set myself up to be flamed here -- but I'd much rather have my child watch Kim Possible with all it's positive messages, than have him watch Cinderella and grow up thinking that who you marry and what you wear to the ball are equated with your happiness or self worth.

 

[Hannathy]

Not Ursula I agree with you more than 3 yr olds watch tv. i am pleased to see some cartoons aimed at the elementary ages for a change Kim Possible, Proud Family, American Dragon. I also like in all three of these they show an intact nuclear family. Kim's clothes are far from revealing! And I had a few of those midriff shirts in the sixties that you refer to. So did my Mom.

 

[sara74]

I have a four and two year old and am pretty picky about what we watch. I think more the content than the clothing - it's funny, I haven't let her watch KimPossible because I've assumed it is for older kids, but I also haven't ever let her watch Lilo and Stitch, Rugrats, SpongeBob and several others because I think they are fresh! I have watched Kim Possible myself and aside from the clothes I think it is a good show and would let DD watch in a few years. Even though High School Musical is way too old for her, I let her watch it (and watch it with her!) because I think it has a decent message, even if much of it goes over her head. And she thinks she wants to marry Troy Bolton when she grows up.

Our favorites are Dora, Diego, Mickey Mouse Clubhouse, Little Einsteins, Little Bear, Franklin and the Berenstain Bears. Wish I could get the kids to watch Boomerang, but DD thinks it is boring to watch Mommy's shows!

 

[scouthawkk]

Sadly, I have to agree that it is hard to find the older cartoons on TV these days. DH and I talk about this all the time. But, you can rent or even buy them. That's what we do.

Actually, the Lilo and Stitch series has been bringing in the characters from other shows for a while now. I have also seen the one that has The Proud Family and The American Dragon one. A little strange, but makes for interesting character interaction. I think Disney is trying to bring back some of the older kids that aren't intersted in the same old stuff on Lilo. My son, who is 3, doesn't like watching it anymore. It was fun for him to begin with, now he tells me he's bored.

And if you are concerned about Kim Possible's clothes, how do you feel about Nani's short tops? I know she doesn't make as many appearances in the series as she did in the movie, but that is her standard top. She may not have the tiny little waist, but her belly is hanging out all the same!

 

[pperfectmom]

I didn't realize that I would offend people by my post. Sorry! I,too, remember wearing tube tops as a child and I have no problem with the short tops, per se. What I do have a problem with is the early sexualization(is that a word?) of our daughters through negative role models. One very prominent one that I can think of came from the ranks of the Mickey Mouse Club. I just want our little girls to stay little girls for as long as possible. I admit that I know absolutely nothing about Kim Possible and cannot make a judgement. I just did not think it was appropriate for a show geared towards toddlers. For the record, I think the Bratz dolls are pretty sleazy also. As for the cartoons, I've never heard of Boomerang so I don't think we get it and I've never seen any old cartoons on Disney or the Cartoon network. I have seen some of the Bugs Bunny DVD's and I would love to get some of those.

 

[Hannathy]

But that is the point Kim Possible is not geared to toddlers! It is geared to elementary kids. The older kids deserve some cartoons also.

 

[DaisyD]

Speaking of Lilo and Stitch have you noticed what Lilo's sister is always dressed in? She always runs around with belly shirts on. I don't think a 3 year old really notices though so it isn't something I'd be worried about.

 

[castleeto]

My daughter is too young for Kim Possible, but I think it's a great show for older girls. I agree with the pp that it's so great to see a girl who can be feminine, pretty and a cheerleader, AND smart, strong and independent. Usually girls are portrayed as one way or the other. I agree that the belly might not be the best choice, but doesn't really offend me. It also depends on the context, which I'm not sure of because I didn't see the show. I wouldn't let my daughter dress like at school, but she wears 2 piece swimsuits, and I wouldn't have a problem with her showing her belly in a dance costume. I live in Southern California though, so I might be a little less conservative.

Personally, I think most of the new cartoons are better for kids than the old ones! Most of the old ones have alot of violence and fighting, even Mickey ones! I bought a DVD of old Mickey cartoons for my dd to watch, and the fighting was upsetting to her. Today, cartoons and kid shows focus much more on problem solving and talking things out. Does anyone else feel that way?

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

I for one wasn't offended, just wanted to offer another perspective on Kim Possible.

Having said that, I've thought about this some more and decided that I really don't like this either, for totally different reasons. My guess is that having Kim Possible on Lilo and Stitch is an advertising gimmick -- either to lure L&S viewers to K.P. or vice versa. That said, I really don't like the practice of advertising to young children, and I like it even less when it's "hidden" like this and when the product they're pushing -- in this case more TV viewing -- is one that isn't beneficial to young children. So, while I don't see K.P. as particularly sexualized, and I don't see one show as better than the other, I really don't like this practice of having characters from one show visit another. In my mind it's yet another reason to stick with P.B.S. for young children.

 

[JoyG]

OP, I totally understand what you're saying.

I am not loving what I see in cartoons either. Although I think Kim Possible is not as bad as the ones on Cartoon Network.

I've forbidden my boys to watch most of those esp. Grim Adventures of Billy an Mandy.

There is one that is pretty innocent but too bad it's always sandwiched between garbage. I like Krypto the Superdog and the boys like that one too.

But mostly we watch dvds instead of network cartoons. I guess that's why I have such Disney fans!

 

[NotUrsula]

IMO, Lilo & Stitch is not geared to toddlers, not like Jojo's Circus or the Koala Brothers. It is geared more to kids in the early primary grades; I would think probably ages 5-9 or thereabouts. Your average toddler wouldn't get a lot of the jokes and puns. My 9 yo still likes L&S for the monsters, but he wouldn't watch Jojo's Circus on a bet.

The crossovers are certainly about Disney trying to get kids to watch new shows, and Kim Possible from Lilo is a natural match, as they both have female lead characters. I also think that KP is a LOT less sexualized than Barbie.

I'm one of those freaky people who likes Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy, though I could certainly live without Billy's nose. I think it is hilarious that Mandy is actually a more powerful character than the Grim Reaper. Of course, this is one of those shows that you have to be selective about with kids; they need to have a certain level of sophistication to appreciate the level of irony in it. My favorite cartoon show for this age group is Code Name Kids Next Door; it has motivated DS to read/watch a lot of classics that he otherwise would not have been curious about.

As to the violence in classic Disney cartoons, absolutely much more violent than today's kids are used to. There was a very different standard for physical comedy 70 years ago, when corporal punishment was also pretty universally accepted. You have to make it clear to kids that cartoon violence isn't like real violence, that real violence hurts people. My favorite Disney classic compilation is the Silly Symphonies DVD set, but it is out of release at the moment, unless you buy a used copy.

 

[aes74]

OP, your post and thoughts are not offensive at all. I think that sometimes we moms just get defensive sometimes if we think someone might even be close to judging our "mommy-ness." Ask if someone should breastfeed or work/stay at home and watch out for the fireworks.

You might want to try Noggin, it is a great, quiet, commercial-free kids channel, but it does end at six and switches to the N, a channel geared for teens (that you definitely do not want your toddler to watch!)

I also do not like belly shirts. I don't allow my daughters to wear them. I also prefer for my daughters not to wear bikinis. I haven't allowed my daughters to buy the costumes of Jasmine, Ariel, or even Belle if the sleeves are off the shoulder. That is purely my and my husband's choice. I don't want my 5 year old dressing like a 25 year old. It doesnt mean you are old-fashioned or prudish, you and all of us are just doing the best we can. It also does not mean you are evil or misguided if your children do wear them. I am a former teacher and just from some of my experiences feel like it's the right choice for us. I do like the cartoon for all the other reasons everyone has listed, and if your kid does or does not watch it, their life will still be successful.

btw, my 3 year old does notice whether or not someone's belly is showing. Toddlers are very observant about everything. I always thought it was interesting that Walt Disney himself did not allow belly shirts or bikinis on any of his characters, you can read about a talk he had with Annette Funicello about them.

"Finally the bikini caught on, and by 1963, the movie Beach Party, starring Annette Funicello (emphatically not in a bikini, by mentor Walt Disney's personal request) and Frankie Avalon, led a wave of films that made the bikini a pop-culture symbol." (From the Wikipedia entry for bikinis)

Just my thoughts. Just what works for us.

 

[NotUrsula]

"Finally the bikini caught on, and by 1963, the movie Beach Party, starring Annette Funicello (emphatically not in a bikini, by mentor Walt Disney's personal request) and Frankie Avalon, led a wave of films that made the bikini a pop-culture symbol."

Take a look at this site, which has images of all of the posters from Funicello's Beach movies. http://www.briansdriveintheater.com/beach.html Funicello wore midriff-baring costumes in all of those movies.

What Funicello did NOT do in the Beach movies was bare her navel, which was what the definition of "bikini" was all about in that era. The first real bikini to show up in a mainstream movie was on Ursula Andress in James Bond flick Dr. No in 1962. The no-navel rule was also invoked for the costume of Barbara Eden in I Dream of Jeannie.

Notably, the famous Coppertone billboard was all over the nation's highways in the same era, and at the time, while the pulled-down bloomers were eye-catching, no one ever bothered to snicker over the fact that the little girl wasn't wearing a top at all. Honestly, there is nothing sexual about a naked toddler.

So, are we talking about tops or bottoms here? One's navel will not show in a midriff blouse, but it will if you wear hip-slung bottoms. Personally, I *don't* think low-cut bottoms are appropriate for children. (They are not appropriate for most adults, either, but for different reasons: very few people have the figure for them. KP does, but she's a cartoon.)

 

[KJMAX1]

I for one am not against letting my 4 or 7 yr old watch Lilo and Stitch or Kim Possible, but for totally different reasons. I watched a Tom and Jerry cartoon with my son a few weeks ago and Tom was smoking! My son quickly became interested in smoking....So its even in those good old cartoons! We have stuck pretty much to Playhouse Disney and PBS with selection. I recently started letting them watch The Magic School Bus on Discovery channel and the kids have really learned a lot. I was shocked!

 

[aes74]

Not that it matters, but I read that Annette didn't show anything until her last couple beach films. Haven't seen them myself in years so I don't remember.

I think what we are talking about is personal feeling and common sense. We do the best we can. That's it.