Am I alone in thinking this is dumb?

[Kurby]

Day to day bookings

would it really be so hard for Disney to say ok - call 11/7 months from check in date NOT check out date?

it's not like most people here are booking for 3, 4, 5 weeks at a time

from what i see 7-12 days seems to be the magic number people stay

why would Disney set up such a pain in the

system?

 

[Dean]

Actually most systems do it this way though they generally require either a 7 day stay or a minimum of 7 days. For points systems, Bluegreen will allow you to make a reservation up to 14 days at 11 months from the check in day. For 6 days or less, it's 5 months. Marriott will allow you to reserve 12 months out but if you reserve multiple weeks either concurrently or consecutively, it's 13 months out FROM THE FIRST WEEK. I don't know the others well enough to be sure. Maybe someone from the other points systems will state how theirs work. I know we have starwood, FF, Worldmark, Sunterra, Hyatt and Hilton owners here.

Certainly DVC is different. The way I read the POS, the most you could link for reservaiton would be 5 days and even then you'd have to institute a minimum stay of 5 days that far out. To change that to require a longer time, you'd need to have a direct vote of the membership. What would likely work better is to link the weekends and weekdays. Say you had to do Fri to Sunday for a minimum of 3 days or Mon-Fri for a min of 4 days. If you included Sunday or Fri, you'd have to do 7 days to get the group. Certainly the min stays are covered easily under the POS, the ? would be requiring certain days linked together. I'll have to think about that one to decide what I think is within the rules as written.

 

[DVC4US]

Truthfully, the day to day calling is not that bad. Really the only time you might have to do this is if you are trying to book at Christmas or Easter, or want a std view, or grand villa at BWV. We have been members for 9 years now and the only time I had to call day to day was when I booked a GV at Boardwalk, and for our our Christmas trip this December.

Things might change over time, but I called in Sept this year and got a GV at Saratoga Springs for spring break.

 

[Granny]

Day to day bookings

would it really be so hard for Disney to say ok - call 11/7 months from check in date NOT check out date?

it's not like most people here are booking for 3, 4, 5 weeks at a time

from what i see 7-12 days seems to be the magic number people stay

why would Disney set up such a pain in the

system?

Actually, the way Disney has it set up is not dumb at all. It's the only fair way I can see for them to do it.

Why? Because too many people would "game the system" to get their vacations booked for hard-to-book periods.

Let's say they set a limit of 12 nights from check in, though that is arbitrary.


And let's say I have a ton of points (wouldn't that be sweet!).

And finally, let's say that we both own at BWV.

You want to book BWV SV 1BR from December 23-28. So you call on January 23 to book your room for those dates.

I also want to book BWV SV 1BR from December 23-28. But I have enough points so I call on January 16 and book December 16-28. I then call up at my leisure some time after that and cancel out my December 16-22, leaving me with December 23-28.

We both go after the same reservation, but I got a full week booking advantage over you, even though we are both booking at our home resort.

The way Disney has it set up right now is the only fair way unless they do some of the things that Dean suggests. And frankly, those would reduce the flexibility of the program and its appeal to many.

So really, Disney isn't so dumb after all. No surprise there, huh?

 

[Dean]

Actually, the way Disney has it set up is not dumb at all. It's the only fair way I can see for them to do it.

Why? Because too many people would "game the system" to get their vacations booked for hard-to-book periods.

Let's say they set a limit of 12 nights from check in, though that is arbitrary.


And let's say I have a ton of points (wouldn't that be sweet!).

And finally, let's say that we both own at BWV.

You want to book BWV SV 1BR from December 23-28. So you call on January 23 to book your room for those dates.

I also want to book BWV SV 1BR from December 23-28. But I have enough points so I call on January 16 and book December 16-28. I then call up at my leisure some time after that and cancel out my December 16-22, leaving me with December 23-28.

We both go after the same reservation, but I got a full week booking advantage over you, even though we are both booking at our home resort.

The way Disney has it set up right now is the only fair way unless they do some of the things that Dean suggests. And frankly, those would reduce the flexibility of the program and its appeal to many.

So really, Disney isn't so dumb after all. No surprise there, huh?

There are ways to game any system, including DVC's current system. But in the scenario in question, it would have to be a cancellation and rebooking to drop the days just like it is currently to use non home resort points. One could still get ahead of you if they booked a longer time and/or booked earlier but would not be able to end up at the same place by simply canceling days. Besides removing the need to call day by day, it'd decrease and likely remove the possibility of having multiple people get part of the days and then wait listing the rest each holding what the other is looking for.

 

[DisDaydreamer]

Actually, the way Disney has it set up is not dumb at all. It's the only fair way I can see for them to do it.

Why? Because too many people would "game the system" to get their vacations booked for hard-to-book periods.

Let's say they set a limit of 12 nights from check in, though that is arbitrary.


And let's say I have a ton of points (wouldn't that be sweet!).

And finally, let's say that we both own at BWV.

You want to book BWV SV 1BR from December 23-28. So you call on January 23 to book your room for those dates.

I also want to book BWV SV 1BR from December 23-28. But I have enough points so I call on January 16 and book December 16-28. I then call up at my leisure some time after that and cancel out my December 16-22, leaving me with December 23-28.

We both go after the same reservation, but I got a full week booking advantage over you, even though we are both booking at our home resort.

The way Disney has it set up right now is the only fair way unless they do some of the things that Dean suggests. And frankly, those would reduce the flexibility of the program and its appeal to many.

So really, Disney isn't so dumb after all. No surprise there, huh?

Very well explained, Granny... This is exactly why. And since I only have 200 points at BWV... I am grateful.

 

[Granny]

There are ways to game any system, including DVC's current system. But in the scenario in question, it would have to be a cancellation and rebooking to drop the days just like it is currently to use non home resort points. One could still get ahead of you if they booked a longer time and/or booked earlier but would not be able to end up at the same place by simply canceling days. Besides removing the need to call day by day, it'd decrease and likely remove the possibility of having multiple people get part of the days and then wait listing the rest each holding what the other is looking for.

Dean....interesting concept. But I'm still not sure I'd trade that for the reduced ability to easily drop a day at the beginning of a trip, for instance, if plans changed. As usual, there are trade-offs to any set of rule changes.

And you're right, any system can be gamed especially if it is set up to be "consumer friendly". Some would even say that calling day by day is gaming the system. I'd have to say that I would disagree with them.

 

[Dean]

Dean....interesting concept. But I'm still not sure I'd trade that for the reduced ability to easily drop a day at the beginning of a trip, for instance, if plans changed. As usual, there are trade-offs to any set of rule changes.

There is a cost to the extra flexibility of the system that DVC uses, my estimate is about 30% of the dues go to this alone and the fall out from it, quite a cost if you ask me. I think DVC made a mistake by not having a min stay of longer than 1 day and not reserving the right to move it to 7 days instead of the 5 quoted in the POS. While I know many like the flexibility, I doubt it affects most of them at all. And while I guess a few would not have bought if the system were more restrictive, I suspect it's very few. It was also likely a mistake not giving priority to those that would book a week and that's coming from one who's stayed a total of two weekend days on points and essentially all points stays are Sun-Fri.

And you're right, any system can be gamed especially if it is set up to be "consumer friendly". Some would even say that calling day by day is gaming the system. I'd have to say that I would disagree with them.

My take is anything not specifically against the rules and allowed by the system is OK. Calling day by day, canceling the first day of a reservation at 7 months then rebooking with non home resort points using the freed up points to add on at the end, booking one resort and wait listing another all come to mind. The only things I'd take issue with might be reservations that were not open to all that own at that resort like special season preference lists, lottery's or having a CM friend who goes in and books for you prior to the phones opening and yes, all have happened.

The rules are the rules, they are set and I figure out how they work for me. If they change and that change affects me in any way, I adapt my strategies and plans accordingly. I specifically bought 3 Marriott weeks in large part due to their reservation system rules. So I invested some $47K into putting myself into a position to get what I want and what works for me. One could do the same with DVC. Buy enough points and multiple home resorts to book at 11 months out or at least enough to hold multiple reservations while either waiting on the wait list or to see what unit type/size you need then canceling the rest.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

But I'm still not sure I'd trade that for the reduced ability to easily drop a day at the beginning of a trip, for instance, if plans changed. As usual, there are trade-offs to any set of rule changes.

Your first explanation was right on the money, and I also agree with your above statement.

I think the current system, although not perfect, is the best way to do it. The day by day booking is a small price to pay for the fairness, and flexibility the current system provides.

MG

 

[Caskbill]

There is a cost to the extra flexibility of the system that DVC uses, my estimate is about 30% of the dues go to this alone and the fall out from it, quite a cost if you ask me.

And just what is the basis for your 30% figure? Sounds like something you're just pulling out of the air.

Dean, first of all you're not serious stating 30% of the dues, are you.

Obviously the portions of the dues that go toward taxes, housekeeping expenses, engineering, landscaping, management salaries, and so on, are not impacted one cent by someone calling in day-by day to make a reservation.

The major impact would be on CM's at MS who are answering the phones. And I would doubt even there it would be anywhere near 30% of the cost to run MS operations.

Let's just take CM's time on the phone as a basis. Say the average reservation takes 3 minutes to make, and average day-by-day reservation for subsequent days takes 1 minute to make. (This would be the added burden you're refering to, as the initial reservation would be required anyway)

Without considering the CM's breaks between calls, then in 1-hour's time (60 minutes), and using 30%, you're saying that 18 of those minutes were for day-by-day bookings, and the remaining 42 minutes was for regular bookings.

Using our 3:1 ratio of time, the 42 minutes accounted for 14 members making their initial reservation, and the 18 minutes accounted for 18 members adding on additional days. So 32 members total, of which you say 56% of them, that is 56% of all the calls coming in every day, every hour, are by members adding on days to an existing reservation?.

Highly doubtful. On January 31st the highest number of day by day callers are probably calling in for New Year's Eve. But to say that kind of ratio extends for 365 days is quite a leap.

If you have any factual data to back up your claim that it's 30% of the total dues paid., I'd be very interested in seeing it.

 

[Snookies]

...
My take is anything not specifically against the rules and allowed by the system is OK. Calling day by day, canceling the first day of a reservation at 7 months then rebooking with non home resort points using the freed up points to add on at the end, booking one resort and wait listing another all come to mind. The only things I'd take issue with might be reservations that were not open to all that own at that resort like special season preference lists, lottery's or having a CM friend who goes in and books for you prior to the phones opening and yes, all have happened.

The rules are the rules, they are set and I figure out how they work for me. If they change and that change affects me in any way, I adapt my strategies and plans accordingly...Buy enough points and multiple home resorts to book at 11 months out or at least enough to hold multiple reservations while either waiting on the wait list or to see what unit type/size you need then canceling the rest.

Dean, If you ever write a book about DVC or timeshares in general, these passages would be a perfect introduction. I think your last sentence is an important point that newer members need to understand. I'll bet I was a DVC member for at least 2 years before I did.

 

[Dean]

And just what is the basis for your 30% figure? Sounds like something you're just pulling out of the air.

Dean, first of all you're not serious stating 30% of the dues, are you.

It is my personal estimate, no more or less. I am including the additional staff, housekeeping, lost use days, increased wear and tear inherently associate with more of a hotel usage, etc. This is not simply an issue of calling day by day but reserving and using for those days as well for non full week usage. Taken to it's nth degree, it would take about 5 times the staff for MS to handle these calls if ALL reservations were done day by day. Also DVC dues are more than 30% higher than comparable Orlando resorts of similar quality. Obviously part of that is the transportation but that's the only part that should be truly different with possibly minor differences in RE taxes.

 

[Dean]

Dean, If you ever write a book about DVC or timeshares in general, these passages would be a perfect introduction. I think your last sentence is an important point that newer members need to understand. I'll bet I was a DVC member for at least 2 years before I did.

Your still ahead of most members.

 

[dvc_john]

Maybe someone from the other points systems will state how theirs work. I know we have starwood, FF, Worldmark, Sunterra, Hyatt and Hilton owners here.

Hilton is based on check-out date. But they do have a minimum of 3-day reservations (unless booking less than 30 days out, then it's a minimum of 2-days).

Hyatt is based on pre-determined fixed time periods of 2-days, 3-days, 4-days, or 7-days. At one resort, a 3-day will be Fri,Sat,Sun. At another, a 3-day will be Sat,Sun,Mon. A 4-day may be MTWT at one resort, SMTW at another. You don't really have a choice.

I prefer the DVC check-out day method. I'd never be able to book Dec 31 if booking was based on check-in day. And just about the last thing I'd want to do is spend Christmas week at WDW just to get Dec 31. And Dec 31 is about the only time I felt I had to book day-by-day.