Allocated seating trial at Fantasmic***Now with another new twist, see page 15, #288***

[SureAsLiz]

Thank you. Still not convinced...

I'm not sure I am either. But this is why they are testing so many different forms - so they can see what works and what doesn't

A quick comment about seat widths.

The report is that the seats at Fantasmic are 20 inches apart and there are a lot of complaints that that is way too small for comfort.

Some quick Google searching revealed these facts:

1. The average airline seat is 17 inches, and in some cases 16 inches

Airline seats have armrests between them which I think help with the boundary issues. You don't get that at F! I went on Star Tours yesterday and those seats are definitely close, but the buffer provided by the arm rests definitely makes me a little more comfortable. I can't speak to the sports stadium - the only stadiums I have gone to I have sat in seats (Coors Field, the old Mile High, Pepsi Center, different college arenas)

I can't tell if you are speaking just about the time at which you got to the seating area.

1. Did they not "assign seats and arrival times" for over half of the theater? (Standby and Dining Pkg.)

2. Was "standby" simply regular walk-up and no "pass" was required to sit there?

3. Did they only require FP guests to arrive at a set time and sit in assigned seats?

1. I was speaking for the time at when I got to the seating area. I'm not sure if I articulated what I meant well - They started letting people in early (they have been pushing the 30 minute arrival prior to this test, so I don't believe anyone had an arrival time prior to 8:25) and there was a steady flow into the stadium since everyone wasn't held at the tapstiles in a herd before being let in.

2. Yes, standby was the normal walk-up with no pass. You just were only able to sit on that half of the stadium.

3. Yes. Only those with FP had an arrival window (standard to having the MDX FP) and a seat. Standby they filled in by row rather than just letting people choose their own seat/section

I wonder if the lower down the seat is they assign earlier arrival times, maybe they are trying to fill bottom up by time of arrival.
That would be an improvement and maybe I wouldn't feel the need for the dinner package. I just can't stand in that line with a mob of people 45 minutes prior to the show.

I sat in the same section both times, but the top for one and the bottom for the other. The arrival window opened 35 minutes for both, and the sections seemed to fill in pretty similarly so I don't believe this is the case.

SureAsLiz, thanks for the report, very interesting. (I'm one who likes to pick my seat so I don't get stuck behind tall people, etc.; luckily F! is not a must-do for me.)

BUT - my real question is: Characterpalooza!?!?!???? How on earth did you score that!? Just lucky? I'm not meaning to threadjack, so that's probably a topic worth its own thread, but do tell!

It seems to have been happening pretty regularly since the whole blow-up with KtP being told it was changing has died down. I just plan to spend some time at the ToT exit around 6 (but off to the side. It seems like they will cancel if a crowd forms. There are places to wait that you can still see the gates without it being obvious what you are waiting for)

 

[LOL!]

View attachment 111518 My assigned seat...

Wow. If I had to squeeze my butt into that space I'd either be making two very close new friends or enemies.

I don't think comparing that space to other types of seating that have physical separators like armrests or side bolsters is an accurate comparison at all - unless you are trying to illustrate just how uncomfortable it could be.

In this case, people's thighs and butts serve as space demarcation and that's just plain uncomfortable.

 

[ELSA711]

Wow. If I had to squeeze my butt into that space I'd either be making two very close new friends or enemies.

I don't think comparing that space to other types of seating that have physical separators like armrests or side bolsters is an accurate comparison at all. In this case, people's thighs and butts serve as space demarcation and that's just plain uncomfortable.

I was thinking that this angry personal space momma, may need to use 2 of my 3 kids spots and they can sit on laps. And I'm only 125, just annoyed with personal space issues

 

[wisblue]

Wow. If I had to squeeze my butt into that space I'd either be making two very close new friends or enemies.

I don't think comparing that space to other types of seating that have physical separators like armrests or side bolsters is an accurate comparison at all - unless you are trying to illustrate just how uncomfortable it could be.

In this case, people's thighs and butts serve as space demarcation and that's just plain uncomfortable.

Well then, think about the football stadiums that have no separators.

 

[grimley1968]

Well then, think about the football stadiums that have no separators.

Except for the layer upon layer of clothing people normally wear at football stadiums. That's not normally present at WDW.

 

[wisblue]

Except for the layer upon layer of clothing people normally wear at football stadiums. That's not normally present at WDW.

I mentioned that, but that cuts both ways. It may provide a buffer, but it also makes people larger. Some of those September games at Michigan Stadium can be played in 90 degree weather too, and that's for an event that takes 3 1/2 - 4 hours.

I really wonder how much space some people usually take up at Fantasmic without assigned seats. When they squeeze people to the middle of the row to make room for more people, things have always gotten pretty tight. Even with 20 inch seats, which are reasonably generous, I wouldn't see SITTING for 45 minutes or so to see Fantasmic being anywhere near as uncomfortable as STANDING for 30 minutes or so to see fireworks. Besides standing, it feels more claustrophobic because you really can't get out.

 

[LOL!]

Well then, think about the football stadiums that have no separators.

I try not to because those cheap seating areas are notoriously uncomfortable. If that's your point, I totally agree. But even with those there is some relief when standing to cheer, etc.

I think the camaraderie of groups cheering on the same team helps to minimize the infringement on personal space. Totally different situations in my opinion.

 

[Planogirl]

I like extra space at events like this because those hard bleachers get uncomfortable after a while. Being able to stretch just a little helps but then I have a touch of claustrophobia.

I agree that the armrests actually help. How do you deal with people who overlap their assigned inches?

 

[SureAsLiz]

Well then, think about the football stadiums that have no separators.

I think it is expected to be close in that environment. Plus it is acceptable to stand which helps a lot.

I really wonder how much space some people usually take up at Fantasmic without assigned seats. When they squeeze people to the middle of the row to make room for more people, things have always gotten pretty tight. Even with 20 inch seats, which are reasonably generous, I wouldn't see SITTING for 45 minutes or so to see Fantasmic being anywhere near as uncomfortable as STANDING for 30 minutes or so to see fireworks. Besides standing, it feels more claustrophobic because you really can't get out.

This is my personal experience, but I have never had to touch anyone while watching F! which I would have had to do in my assigned seat last night. People I think naturally give themselves at least an inch or two buffer between themselves and someone they don't know but these assignments eliminates that option.

With standing for fireworks, again, I don't have to be touching anyone while waiting which does a lot with feeling like there is more space. Yes, standing for that long is uncomfortable, but not necessarily anxiety inducing since there is enough space to "shuffle" if need be

 

[tmoo]

So they just have to adjust the process to give people of size 2 seats and make sure all of the tall families are grouped together. They could have a height gauge, 'You must be less than this tall to sit in this section'.

Seriously, it really depends on your desires. I thrived under the paper fast pass system because I was willing to get there early and run all over the park gathering passes for my family in the morning. People who like to come in the park at noon probably do better with FP+. It is the same thing here, I am NOT willing to wait in line 2 or 3 hours just to get a better seat so taking my chances on a pass with a random assigned seat and avoiding the stress is much better for me but a disappointment for those that didn't mind waiting in line to get a great seat.

Maybe they will end up with a hybrid approach where the late show is still standby. That way they get rid of congestion on Sunset Blvd and both types of people can be somewhat satisfied.

 

[momof2n2]

So....

If this continues as some sort of same-day FP, I guess they are admitting that (prebooked) FP+ failed here?

I'm quite comfortable saying they'd never admit such a thing.
But - if this continues as some sort of same-day FP thing, it will show that FP+ failed here.
I'm okay with them NOT saying it here. They are more than welcome to never say it. I'm okay if they decide to not say it next door at TOT, too. And over at RnRC. Or over at TSMM... They can not say it anywhere they'd like. ♥

 

[ArwenMarie]

I haven't read every single post so if someone has already mentioned this I apologize but..........

Maybe Disney decided that they couldn't fit as many people into each showing as they'd like because guests were "occupying" too much individual space, so the best way to increase the number of guests per show was to create 20" wide slots and assign everyone a slot? So perhaps what used to be a theater filled with 5,500 people creating their own space is now filled with 8,000 people seated in defined spaces?

I mean, everything they've done lately seems to be about squeezing more out of existing resources. My bet is the need for a third (or fourth?) showing on particular days resulted in someone pointing out that if they could just get people to sit closer together during the shows they already have...............

Really good point.

Well then, think about the football stadiums that have no separators.

So because some football stadiums are uncomfortable, it's ok to be smushed up against people at Fantasmic? I'm not following your logic here.

In that case, I hope they hand out deodorant with these paper FPs!

 

[mom2rtk]

So they just have to adjust the process to give people of size 2 seats and make sure all of the tall families are grouped together. They could have a height gauge, 'You must be less than this tall to sit in this section'.

So maybe they would need to rename the sections. They could have a Jafar section. And a Pooh section. And a Dwarf section.

I'm starting to think this could work............

 

[socrateze]

I'm quite comfortable saying they'd never admit such a thing.
But - if this continues as some sort of same-day FP thing, it will show that FP+ failed here.
I'm okay with them NOT saying it here. They are more than welcome to never say it. I'm okay if they decide to not say it next door at TOT, too. And over at RnRC. Or over at TSMM... They can not say it anywhere they'd like. ♥

Wholeheartedly agree! I would be happy if they slowly reverted back to legacy without ever admitting that FP+ was a failure. I think if FP+ was such an overwhelming success, they would've made Fantasmic a FP+ admission in the MDE app.

Also, I can understand why the seats are shrinking in arenas, airplanes and theaters, but for Fantasmic? Disney isn't generating additional revenue......yet. So why not allow the guests to be as comfortable as possible.

 

[wisblue]

There's obviously nothing I can do to change the minds of people who have convinced themselves that individually assigned seats (if it even turns out that way) would be physically less comfortable than the traditional seating method. The assumption seems to be that assigned seats would result in more people per row than there were before. But, if you factor in the large number of children who attend these events, you could actually end up with fewer people per row. Look at it this way. At 20 inches per seat, 4 adults would get 80 inches of space, or a total of 6 feet, 8 inches. That's a not insignificant 8 more inches than the same 4 people would get at a bleachered football stadium. If that family includes 2 younger children, they will still get that 80 inches, even though they would probably take up less space than that in a "move down the row to make room for everyone" system.

I still think that the end result of this testing is going to be either no change or the adoption of an assigned section system, so I'll worry about the personal space issues another day.

 

[SureAsLiz]

There's obviously nothing I can do to change the minds of people who have convinced themselves that individually assigned seats (if it even turns out that way) would be physically less comfortable than the traditional seating method. The assumption seems to be that assigned seats would result in more people per row than there were before. But, if you factor in the large number of children who attend these events, you could actually end up with fewer people per row. Look at it this way. At 20 inches per seat, 4 adults would get 80 inches of space, or a total of 6 feet, 8 inches. That's a not insignificant 8 more inches than the same 4 people would get at a bleachered football stadium. If that family includes 2 younger children, they will still get that 80 inches, even though they would probably take up less space than that in a "move down the row to make room for everyone" system.

I still think that the end result of this testing is going to be either no change or the adoption of an assigned section system, so I'll worry about the personal space issues another day.

I think part of the problem is that F! is not a "move down the row" event. It is a "find a spot any spot" atmosphere and if someone wants to give themselves a few extra inches (or naturally occupies a few extra inches) then they are perfectly free to do so.

Obviously I am just one person and am not indicative of the whole population, but the individually assigned seat was physically less comfortable than the traditional method - that's not an assumption rather than a first-hand observation. That compounded with the fact that my "guaranteed" seat was in a worse location than my traditional entry would have gotten me makes this seem like it is not the best system.

That being said, there are absolutely aspects that worked well, and if Disney found a way to keep those while also giving me the freedom to choose my seat then I would be happy.

 

[wisblue]

I think part of the problem is that F! is not a "move down the row" event. It is a "find a spot any spot" atmosphere and if someone wants to give themselves a few extra inches (or naturally occupies a few extra inches) then they are perfectly free to do so.

Obviously I am just one person and am not indicative of the whole population, but the individually assigned seat was physically less comfortable than the traditional method - that's not an assumption rather than a first-hand observation. That compounded with the fact that my "guaranteed" seat was in a worse location than my traditional entry would have gotten me makes this seem like it is not the best system.

That being said, there are absolutely aspects that worked well, and if Disney found a way to keep those while also giving me the freedom to choose my seat then I would be happy.

I think that's why they do testing. They can see what works and what doesn't work and make adjustments accordingly.

That's why I think that assigning sections would be the best alternative. It gives you assurance that you will get in while still giving you some flexibility to choose where you want to sit. Some people want to sit as far up front as possible, while others prefer to stay further back and stay near the aisle to make it easier to get out.

I don't see that giving everyone the freedom to take as much space as makes them comfortable is realistic. All that does is significantly reduce the number of people who get to see the show.

 

[SureAsLiz]

I think that's why they do testing. They can see what works and what doesn't work and make adjustments accordingly.

That's why I think that assigning sections would be the best alternative. It gives you assurance that you will get in while still giving you some flexibility to choose where you want to sit. Some people want to sit as far up front as possible, while others prefer to stay further back and stay near the aisle to make it easier to get out.

I don't see that giving everyone the freedom to take as much space as makes them comfortable is realistic. All that does is significantly reduce the number of people who get to see the show.

I am going to the section testing next week as well - it's the one that I think would also work best.

As far as capacity, this probably partially in response to the fact that people don't seem to care that the second showing is only ever half-full. Tram operators say this. Signs around the park say this. People just don't seem to want to go to the later showing for whatever reason. If a small amount of the 9pm show would defer to the 10:30 showing, then everyone would be able to have that buffer space

 

[Angel Ariel]

Photos:
View attachment 111517What the seat numbers look like
View attachment 111518 My assigned seat
View attachment 111519The stadium was full for the 9pm showing
View attachment 111520The stadium was not as full for the 10:30 showing. Note the empty center. The two sections on the other side of me were also empty.
View attachment 111521 What the fast passes looked like. Different colors for different shows.

Maybe it's just me, but that assigned seat does not look like 20". I have had more space than that at sporting events that I've attended that have bench seating. I could barely fit in that space, and I am a medium size build person. DH, who is much taller than I am, would have a hard time fitting in that space...again, not an issue that he's ever had at football games.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I think it is expected to be close in that environment. Plus it is acceptable to stand which helps a lot.

Not just acceptable to stand...in some places - mostly college - DH and have I attended football games with bleacher seating, people stand for the whole game (and sit during TV breaks/half time). DH's height is less of an issue then, as his legs aren't smushed up into him to sit down in that tiny space - he's standing instead.