Alligator Incident Discussion/Fence being built at Grand Floridian?

[tink'smom2B]

We were invited to build sandcastles on the beach every night. How could anyone think it wasn't safe? This little three rope fence won't stop an alligator.

 

[GPC0321]

We were invited to build sandcastles on the beach every night. How could anyone think it wasn't safe? This little three rope fence won't stop an alligator.

It's not meant to stop an alligator. It's meant to stop a human.

 

[Don_Air]

Hey, I'm one of the people who didn't know! That's great that you get to finally talk to one of us. I am firmly in the camp that assumed a $700 a night resort didn't have alligators in it's man-made lake feet from the beach on their resort. The same beach they host movie nights, and sandcastle competitions. The ones where you have to get water from the lake to build the sand castles.

So now that you are actually talking to someone who 100% didn't know, now what? Thank you Disney for putting a sign up to let people who also didn't know in 50 years from now.

50 years from now, people will walk along the fence lines of the lakes and lagoons at WDW and vaguely remember that those were put there because a child lost his life when attacked by a gator.

There, you said it yourself. Mission accomplished Disney. They really did the right thing.

 

[PlutoPony]

My first thought when I saw the new fence - how many times are CM's going to have to tell parents to get their kids down from climbing on the ropes.

My hope out of all of this is that CM's are now actively encouraged to tell guests NOT to do things that are against rules and even common sense. Most of us are tired of CM's being lax with rule enforcement (to be fair to CM's the reason seems to be because Disney doesn't want to tell their guests NO about anything) so hopefully this empowers them to be more assertive when they see things happen

 

[tink'smom2B]

We were invited to play on the beach. Maybe because you live here you wouldn't do it, but my family and I had no idea there would be danger. Just because it wasn't my 2 year old granddaughter, doesn't make it any easier.

 

[PlutoPony]

We were invited to play on the beach. Maybe because you live here you wouldn't do it, but my family and I had no idea there would be danger. Just because it wasn't my 2 year old granddaughter, doesn't make it any easier.

Playing on the beach is fine. Watching a movie on the beach is fine. Getting in the water (which includes wading/splashing around) is not. The latter is where an element of risk comes in.
Hence following the rules is a good idea and minimizes risk

 

[tink'smom2B]

How do you build a sandcastle on the beach without water?

 

[plutolovr]

How do you build a sandcastle on the beach without water?

 

[tink'smom2B]

Fence is being erected at Poly now.

 

[Shellyb84]

I am not from Florida and I knew all about them. And yes if I was traveling somewhere else I would be aware of natural dangers. That is my responsibility to keep myself and family safe.

Exactly.

 

[tink'smom2B]

Who are you people?? I really can't believe what I'm reading.

 

[theSurlyMermaid]

View attachment 176120

That's right. Disney makes it perfectly clear that you have to stock up on bottled water to go build sand castles on their beaches. This is the single most ridiculous thing I have ever seen on these boards. Some of these posts defending Disney are so flat out ludicrous, I just assume people are taking advantage of Internet anonymity and trolling. As for me, the more I learn, the more I hope Disney has to pay through the nose.

 

[wdwrule]

Who are you people?? I really can't believe what I'm reading.

Either: A) SOME people without kids/grandkids who may not fully understand B) people who refuse to put themselves in that family's shoes, C) people who are simply insensitive and enjoy arguing, or D) people who can't set down the Disney Kool-Aid, or E) all of the above.

 

[Jennasis]

Maybe you don't build a sand castle.

 

[goofy4tink]

This was a horrible accident! Accidents happen. There have been people wading in these waters for ages. For heaven's sake, people were actually swimming in there many years ago. I can't begin to imagine how those poor parents feel. Bad enough to lose a child, but to watch it being dragged into the water, by an alligator? No words.
I've been going to WDW since '99. More times than I can count. And I've seen alligators on almost every trip. Even from the tram at MCO! They're everywhere. Was Disney correct in the way they handle signage? Probably not. If they knew, and they did, that kids wade in the water, there should have been signs. There should never have been night time activities planned by the water...way too inviting for little ones. This particular accident was a perfect storm...dusk, when alligators normally start hunting, at a time when breeding and nesting are happening, which makes alligators more aggressive than usual, a little kid splashing around in shallow water, which the alligator translated into a small animal. Not to mention all the weedy growth in that area. Here's the thing...alligators don't normally come up onto land, to attack. You're in the water splashing around? His home, his territory. So yes, there should be signage that alerts people to exactly 'why' they should stay out of the water. In all honesty? I'm more concerned about the bacteria that's in that shallow water!!! Or the snakes!! I know that when I walk on the far sidewalks at Pop, I'm walking on the side that's further away from the lake!!!! Especially if anywhere near sundown!!!
I'm from NE, we don't have alligators up here. But, I know they exist in Florida. The whole idea that Disney needs to remove them all is ludicrous. That's just not going to happen. But, hopefully the signage will keep people away from the water. And if Disney wants to do night time activities, outside, they should move them away from the water! Just makes sense. And stop selling those stupid pails and shovels. If people want to go to a beach, then perhaps Disney can start a service where they will shuttle guests to Cocoa Beach for the day.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Most "man-made" lakes aren't especially isolated, and are not built as closed ecosystems. Disney is built on reclaimed swampland. All "man-made" waterways within WDW should be referred to as drainage.

Alligators are not purely aquatic and are not simply restricted to staying in connected waterways. This is how they get into happy little ponds on happy golf courses: They walk.

 

[GPC0321]

We were invited to play on the beach. Maybe because you live here you wouldn't do it, but my family and I had no idea there would be danger. Just because it wasn't my 2 year old granddaughter, doesn't make it any easier.

I see ads all the time with images like that inviting families to come play at real beaches along the Atlantic seaboard. Does that mean there is no danger? Do people from the inland U.S. and other regions of the world know about sharks and rip currents? Off the coast of my state (NC) alone last year, between June 11th and July 4th, 8 people were attacked by sharks including two (a 12 year old and 16 year old) who each lost part of an arm and others who sustained several critical injuries to the back, hands, buttocks, and legs. These people were often waist-deep, walking on the ocean floor mere yards from dry land.
And yet? No fences. No closed beaches. No warning signs about sharks, at least that I've seen. People still go swimming in the ocean every year. There are still advertisements enticing families to come to the Outer Banks to enjoy the beach and ocean.

I don't mean to keep harping on this, but until people take some responsibility for their own safety and employ a little common sense and good judgment, these kinds of tragedies will continue to occur. And I'm not talking specifically about the parents of this child. I'm talking about the people feeding the gators, the people ignoring signs about feeding wildlife, the people going into water (even ankle deep) where NO Swimming signs are posted, the people who even after this tragedy, STILL want their kids to be able to wade into the water to get sand for sandcastles. I can just envision a parent or grandparent, tired of dealing with a kid who wants water for his/her sand castle, telling the child to just crawl under/through the ropes really quickly and grab a pail full of water. Nobody will care. It'll happen, you mark my words. There is always someone who doesn't think the rules apply to them. We see it every day in all sorts of situations.

Anyway, I'm glad they're jumping on this with gusto. I wish the fences and signage had been in place prior to this so that sweet little one was still here and his parents could have been spared the anguish. My brother was killed in a freak accident on the water 23 years ago when a drunken teenager ran his boat over my brother's. A few years before that, my 4-year old cousin ran into the street beside her house and was run over and killed by an older man who never saw her and never stopped. Her father and twin sister witnessed it, but could do nothing until it was too late. Her mother had taken her eyes off of her for a split second and that's all it took. Plenty of blame could be passed around for both tragedies, but in the end, nothing done now can bring those loved ones back and spare our family the pain we endured. We are more cautious now, that's all we can do. That's all Disney can do at this point. That's all the Graves family can do too. That's all any guest at Disney can do. And if people cannot stand the thought that there are alligators an snakes on the property, then they'll make a decision about whether or not they want to vacation there any longer. Totally understandable if some choose to stop going.

 

[Beca]

You cannot credibly attack the parents for not following the rules when Disney has allowed wading in that water for decades. Disney knew that children played on the edges of that water and did nothing. It didn't put up a barrier to make clearer that the water was off-limits. It didn't ask people to get out of the water when it saw them in it. It didn't change the wording of the sign from No Swimming to Stay Out of the Water. Disney's own actions make it clear that it was not a violation of the rules to play at the edges as long as one didn't swim. Indeed, it makes little sense to have a beach lead directly into water if the strict rule is not to touch the water under any circumstances.

Disney likely concluded that there existed little risk in allowing guests to play in the water at the edge. The reasonableness of that decision can be debated on both sides. But stop blaming the parents for doing something Disney has allowed thousands of others to do.

Interesting...we have always assumed there IS a strict rule not to touch WDW water, even when it is next to a beach. We just told our kids the water was to look, and not touch. We own DVC at the Beach Club, and every trip we spend a great amount to time on the beach. We swing, watch movies, eat s'mores, enjoy an adult beverage after sunset, and have a wonderful time...but, never once have my kids so much as stuck a single toe in that nasty swamp water. I always thought the beach was the amenity, not the water. Of course, my primary concern has always been bacteria and amoebas, but snakes and alligators as well. Beyond the safety issue...it's just nasty.

 

[bean]

We stay across the street at Shades of Green where there are signs warning of alligators/wildlife and the laws against feeding them. Because of this I've always been extra cautious walking by those bodies of water. Naively I've never had that same level of caution when we visit the Poly or GF. Honestly, I am very surprised that Disney would know that the immediate areas around those resorts are infested with alligators and didn't put up a warning.

 

[Kevin355]

This alligator was on Buffalo Creek Golf Course in Ellenton/Palmetto, FLA. The course is built next to a reservoir that has steep rock walls, fencing, and shrubbery to deter alligators from getting on the course. I have golfed on this course 20 times at least. Alligators are native to Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, and some other southern states. Alligators have very few predators, except for man, and the population keeps growing.

Both sides make some valid points, but WDW can try to get every alligator they see and still will not get them all. It is estimated that there are 1.3-1.6 million alligators in Florida. Almost all of Florida is built on a swamp. WDW and Florida Wildlife can try to move every gator at WDW but it is impossible. Alligators are very adaptable animals.

Retaining walls will not deter them.

I do not know if this tragedy was avoidable or not. We can wring our hands and complain...I feel bad the for the family, but trying to find fault in every incident is insane. I live in Ohio and have hit 3 deer with cars. Animals are unpredictable. Try as we might, we cannot stop these situations from happening...they are wildlife.