Alligator dragged 2 year old into 7 seas lagoon

[kimmar067]

....Now, I fully get that in places like Florida, local custom may give it a different interpretation because of snakes and gators, but Disney (especially) has guests from all over the US, and (indeed) the world. I think signs should be MUCH clearer to make sure there is no misunderstanding..."DO NOT GO IN THE WATER." Hard to misinterpret that. I'll bet anything signs are changed following this terrible tragedy...

....I was thinking that maybe now WDW will install some kind of low fencing [in the water] at the water's edge to keep folks OUT and keep wildlife IN....just my 2c....prayers go out to the family....

 

[DisneyChula]

I have tremendous empathy for this boy and his family regarding this tragic loss. I also have "what were they thinking" on my mind.

They were probably thinking about what a nice night it was and how cute it would be to watch their little one play in the shallow water. As shown in this thread, the posted sign is interpreted in different ways by different people. In the end, it doesn't matter. They are dealing with a horrific loss which could easily happen to anybody, even those who are absolutely SURE that they would never allow anything like that to happen.

I know that the lagoon is home to all sorts of nasty stuff so there is no way I would even wade in it, but I would never assume that everyone has the same knowledge. I also would interpret the sign to mean stay out of the water, where others would interpret it to mean that wading is fine. I don't see the point in laying blame on anyone in this situation. That poor family is living a nightmare right now and will never be the same. The last thing that they need is random strangers questioning their judgement or claiming what they would have done differently.

 

[asta]

According to several news sites the scheduled 6pm press conference has been moved to 4pm. They think this is because the gator involved might have been located but that is just speculation.

 

[cabanafrau]

I've seen some comments elsewhere that anyone who travels to WDW and doesn't realize the potential for alligators hasn't done their research. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not so sure if I was from somewhere where knowledge of Florida was minimal and my only destination in Florida was going to be WDW that I would gravitate to information about Florida wildlife, or even think that I needed to do so in order to visit WDW. I'm not even sure that once on the ground at WDW for what I took to be my well researched visit -- ADR's, check; fast pass selections, check; resort and room selection, check; that I would understand that what's billed as the beach at my resort could present a hazard beyond a sunburn if I have no intention of swimming there. We've stayed at the Poly multiple times and I know we received no verbal info at check in, nor printed info in the materials they handed us or left in our rooms indicating anything to be aware of at the beach or anywhere else at the resort for that matter.

The more I think of it, the more I understand some of the reports I'm seeing that foreign visitors in particular were under the impression the beaches were genuine and had no inkling about alligators or amoeba threats. I can easily see without having contextual clues or something else leading you to look for it, you could be lulled into accepting the manufactured charm for exactly what it appears to be.

 

[Ziggie]

Did anyone post this guy yet? This was from the video at a Florida golf course a few weeks ago

Yes, I did up above. In the video. Actually, he's been seen again since the first taped sighting.

 

[cabanafrau]

According to several news sites the scheduled 6pm press conference has been moved to 4pm. They think this is because the gator involved might have been located but that is just speculation.

Cannot understand what it must be to be a parent in the horrible situation of holding out hope they find remains of my child as being the most I can hope for at the moment. God bless this family.

 

[Goofy_Disney_Dad]

Did anyone post this guy yet? This was from the video at a Florida golf course a few weeks ago

That should speed up play.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Still trying to imagine the pictograph for a brain eating amoeba.

How about a video...

 

[Ziggie]

My heart truly, truly goes out to the father in particular. Knowing he tried desperately to free his son (who might've been crying) while sustaining cuts and bruises would leave any parent feeling completely helpless and devastated. The sounds never leave your brain.

 

[Dizneefamily+4]

I'm not a FL native, just a frequent tourist who lives in the north - and in my opinion, one with common sense. We go to Disney often and have stayed at the Polynesian several times - which is also on the 7 seas lagoon. Even I know that an alligator can be in any body of water in FL. I suppose they could put up signs, but it it seems like it should be common sense. Just because you're in Disney, it doesn't mean you're ACTUALLY in fantasy land. It's like being in a city of it's own and there are always stories of gators on golf courses, in residential swimming pools, etc. This is so tragic and my heart breaks for this family. I just don't think people are being realistic when they say "but it's Disney, there shouldn't be alligators!"

 

[MPB82]

You can bet starting today at check in EVERYONE will be made aware of alligators on the property

 

[mummabear]

Definitely have mixed feelings about this. Certainly saddened by the thought of a family losing such a young child like this, BUT the signs clearly say "no swimming."

Maybe it is just because I've been going to Florida for a large portion of my life, but when you see "no swimming" it is to be expected it is because of alligators, poisonous snakes, Naegleria fowleri (brain eating amoeba - definitely found in 7 Seas Lagoon), and other dangerous things. Basically, you don't go anywhere near that water.

So I will definitely pause to think of the family and their loss, but also shake my head at a very, VERY, preventable loss. Like a PP mentioned, "Disney Syndrome" is certainly a thing, and I've seen it far too many times to count while on vacation.

I would hope most people know that Florida = Alligators (It's even their University mascot).

The problem with Seven Seas Lagoon, and why it was closed for swimming, was most certainly the brain-eating amoeba. I believe a few cases popped up in River Country, which was subsequently closed. The water there was from the Lagoon, so they know it is in there as well. Basically any warm, freshwater in the South will house Naegleria fowleri.

I do agree with you, though, that Disney does not do enough to emphasize how dangerous that water is. Even wading/splashing could cause the water to enter one's nasal cavity and that is all it takes to get infected with Naegleria fowleri.

Regardless of how little they advertise the dangers of the water, at the end of the day "no swimming" means just that...stay out.

I saw it on my Facebook feed from a news outlet I'm not familiar with, and I honestly didn't believe it was a real story at first. What a sad, scary thing!

That said, I do wonder at all the people who look at a "no swimming" sign and think that's not the same as "stay out of the water". I don't live in gator country. I live in a state that is essentially without venomous snakes or other wildlife that could pose a hazard to swimmers. But when I see a place marked "no swimming" I read that as "not safe to go in the water". Underwater hazards, strong currents, bacterial levels... there are lots of reasons a beach might not be suitable for playing in the water and not all of them take being in deep water or completely submerged to effect a person.

Put me in the group that says no swimming means just that don't swim not don't touch the water. Surely you can see the difference between Don't enter the water Alligators and Brain eating bacteria and no swimming signs.
I do think Disney should be responsible for adequately and clearly stating the dangers.
I for one did not realise there was brain eating bacteria (or whatever it is) in the water, I also had no idea about alligators being in the seven seas lagoon, we have waded with our small children after dark while waiting for wishes. Had there been signage warning us we wouldn't have gone near the water.

I am devastated for the family, but with regards to signage and stuff, I feel like maybe it should have posted the potential hazards.

I am from the Philadelphia area, while I am more familiar with Florida from having visited many, many times, I know that gators are a real threat down there. We did the swamp tours when I was younger on the air boats and got a nice lesson on gators and how they are all over in Florida. Heck, I heard many stories of gators being found in back yard swimming pools. I also wanted to move down a few years ago and visited some chat rooms about Florida living and learned, that if you are looking at houses, try not to get one built on a lake, or at least lake front property, especially if you have a pet, cuz gators are a very real threat. BUT, for people who may not be familiar with all of that, I could see someone being naïve about them.

I have seen a few gators in around the Disney area, one right on the side of a road about 10 years ago, must have come from a river that the road was parallel to, and on Disney property. That made me a little nervous. I would never go near a body of water in Florida, other than a pool, but that is just me. But, since the resort had a beach with public access, I would have definitely gone down to the beach. I would have headed the sign of no swimming, but to me, no swimming means no submerging myself in the water. I too probably would have walked on the shore line with my feet, possibly up to my ankles in the water. Swimming, verses walking ankle deep means 2 different things to me, even knowing the threat of gators as much as I do. That may be stupid on my part, but who ever thinks they will be attacked by a gator at a Disney beach. If it's not safe, I wouldn't think I would have access to even get that close.

With regards to Disney, yes, I feel like we fall into a false sense of security. Not for nothing, but if they knew there were gators in that lake, is it even wise to have any type of beach, with public access, even if there is a sign that says no swimming?? Gators come up on land, even if people don't go in the water at all, they still have access to a beach, where they could come up and get very close to people, why take that type of chance?

I feel anyplace, including Disney owes it to the public to post a sign warning of something as serious as an Alligator. Now unfortunately I feel like Disney is liable. (that hurt me saying that, as I think in this day and age everyone is to sue happy) But I think just to cover their own butts, they should have posted no going in the water at all due to threats of alligators, snakes and brain eating bacteria. It wouldn't make me think less of Disney and I would welcome the warning. Too many other things to do in Disney then to put my family in harms way just to walk along a stupid, man made beach IMHO.

I don't know, again, on the fence about the signage, maybe Disney thinks it will keep guests from visiting? I guess for me I would rather know. I mean look at all the other stupid signs posted all over and on products. For Goodness sake, they had to put caution, Hot Coffee on a coffee cup at McDonalds because someone burned themselves. Um we all know coffee is hot, but there it is. I have seen signs posted at lakes down south warning of the potential bacteria in them. I have seen signs posted on trails at local parks up here warning of dangerous snakes on trails. Disney has signs posted to stay seated on the parking lot tram car! Heck, I can't ride down the pool slide at POR with my 3 year old nephew for some reason, cuz it's dangerous, but they can't post about gators? Just think they should have said, no swimming, Alligators possibly in area or something like that.

This exactly, Disney is so infuriatingly safety conscious that they tell grown adults how to walk in a car park, the micro manage everyone for safety reasons but don't warn about brain eating bugs or alligators?

The problem is everyone was gotten so sign happy, no one follows them. They really need a fence

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calif...edia/File:Disneyland_Prop_65_Warning_crop.jpg

I think this is quite different, I have seen these signs at Disneyland, this is more of a covering your butt warning not a people need to do something to keep out of danger warning.

This is false in so many ways and underscores the impossible expectations that some people have.

Visitors have no legal expectation to be safe from non-human predators that are not owned or kept by Disney. There is a significant legal distinction between keeping/maintaining wild animals and simply owning/maintaining property containing wild animals. In other words, an alligator escaping from its cage at Animal Kingdom carries a different level of liability for the owner than alligators in the wild. Further, there is no legal responsibility to "clearly warn" guests of these dangers nor does Disney have any obligation to block off potentially dangerous areas. Finally, there is no duty in this situation to provide specific signage (and really, if you think that "No Swimming" is meant solely to restrict full immersion in water or doing the backstroke then no sign is going to help you - I really can't believe people are making this argument.)

Take a look at the Florida Court of Appeals case of Palumbo v. Game & Fresh Water Fish Commission. http://www.leagle.com/decision/1986839487So2d352_1752/PALUMBO v. GAME & FRESH WATER FISH COM'N

Some quotes from the case:

"The law of Florida does not require the owner or possessor of land to anticipate the presence of or to guard an invitee or trespasser against harm from wild animals unless one of two conditions exists: the animal has been reduced to possession, or the animal is not indigenous to the locality but has been introduced onto the premises."

"Here, appellees clearly did not create the dangerous condition, i.e., the presence of the alligator, and we agree with the trial court that liability against appellees may not be predicated upon their decision, clearly discretionary and judgmental, of whether to fence, block or otherwise prevent alligators from moving from Paynes Prairie State Park to adjoining Lake Wauberg, if indeed it would have been possible to do so."

"We also agree with the trial court's finding that appellant's total disregard of the clear warning signs present at the facility was the sole proximate cause of his injury. A sign posted at the boat launch area where appellant entered the water read "No Swimming Allowed.""

Disagree with the bolder, as many posters here have noted, "no swimming" in their area means just that no swimming due to rips, drop offs etc not "no entering the water" it is quite a different instruction.

I had assumed the no swimming was because of all the boat activity making it dangerous.

As far as if the appellees created a dangerous situation, well Disney created a man made lake which they built a fake beach on, they provide water sports on said lake, they host events including after dark events on the waters edge, without any warnings either announced at the event or by signage/information handout of the dangers.
It seems to me that Disney did in fact create the situation.

 

[7165red]

Also why would you want to get in that water. It looks so dirty.

My heart goes out to this family. I would have to be sedated to deal with this. I can't even imagine.

I feel so sick over this, I agree with you I would have to be sedated or I would go mad. I feel for the for the poor child and the parents. I can't get the image out of my mind. God help them.

 

[cepmom]

its insane to me that anyone here thinks that the "No Swimming" sign isn't adequate to warn people to stay out of the water. Yes, swimming a different action than walking, true, but really?? You think that walking in the water is ok because you aren't physically in the act of swimming?? I rarely swim, don't care for it, not good at it, however when I go to a pool or the beach (an ocean beach not Disney "beaches") I walk in the water, often up to my shoulders. My feet are always touching the bottom and I am walking along trying to stay cool. I am not swimming. So by the people here's interpretation that the sign is not adequate enough to warn people, it would be ok for one to walk in the water even up to there armpits, because its "not swimming"?? Thats just ridiculous, if they don't want you swimming gin the water, they don't want anyone there period.

And this isn't to place blame on the family at all...My heart is breaking for this family, I can not even imagine the shear horror of going through this. Just pointing out the idiocy of the comments that the sign doesn't adequately warn people to stay out of the water.

 

[cabanafrau]

I'm not a FL native, just a frequent tourist who lives in the north - and in my opinion, one with common sense. We go to Disney often and have stayed at the Polynesian several times - which is also on the 7 seas lagoon. Even I know that an alligator can be in any body of water in FL. I suppose they could put up signs, but it it seems like it should be common sense. Just because you're in Disney, it doesn't mean you're ACTUALLY in fantasy land. It's like being in a city of it's own and there are always stories of gators on golf courses, in residential swimming pools, etc. This is so tragic and my heart breaks for this family. I just don't think people are being realistic when they say "but it's Disney, there shouldn't be alligators!"

It may not be realistic to say, "but it's Disney, there shouldn't be alligators!", however I never realized until this tragedy that it's likely many people travel to Disney without having a background to reasonably suggest they should either understand that reality or have very good likelihood to be pointed to that information. To be honest, I'm surprised the Poly didn't have signage regarding alligators down at the beach. I guess I never paid attention because I only swim in pools, never natural bodies of water. I understood the likelihood of alligators being in the water there because of general knowledge I have outside of my Disney experience or researching for a WDW visit. If I were visiting from a part of the world where I knew little of Florida I could research the heck out of a WDW visit, even visit the boards here many times(prior to today) and never come across mention of an alligator and never have an idea I should be looking for that kind of info.

 

[Ziggie]

It seems to me that Disney did in fact create the situation.

Agreed.

It's all about the illusion.. the psychological "what a pretty beach, nice clean sand, cute buckets & shovels" that implies, to me, a sense of "I'm in a safe environment". That plus the fact they offer movie night right there...mere feet from potential danger. People who work at Disney surely must know that gators primarily hunt at dusk or during the night.

My daughter was sitting on that section of GF beach just this past Sunday evening.

 

[mjkacmom]

its insane to me that anyone here thinks that the "No Swimming" sign isn't adequate to warn people to stay out of the water. Yes, swimming a different action than walking, true, but really?? You think that walking in the water is ok because you aren't physically in the act of swimming?? I rarely swim, don't care for it, not good at it, however when I go to a pool or the beach (an ocean beach not Disney "beaches") I walk in the water, often up to my shoulders. My feet are always touching the bottom and I am walking along trying to stay cool. I am not swimming. So by the people here's interpretation that the sign is not adequate enough to warn people, it would be ok for one to walk in the water even up to there armpits, because its "not swimming"?? Thats just ridiculous, if they don't want you swimming gin the water, they don't want anyone there period.

And this isn't to place blame on the family at all...My heart is breaking for this family, I can not even imagine the shear horror of going through this. Just pointing out the idiocy of the comments that the sign doesn't adequately warn people to stay out of the water.

That would be swimming. When I swim in a pool or ocean, I'm basically standing fully submerged in the water. I'm keeping cool, not exercising. Standing in a foot of water is much different than standing with the water up to your neck. Many here, including myself, believed the No Swimming signs were to prevent folks from drowning, or at least to cover themselves if someone drowned. There are many places you can wade and not swim.

 

[aristocatz]

CNN is reporting that they found the little boy's remains My heart is broken for this family.

 

[cabanafrau]

Anyone above the age of a toddler should have common sense to understand putting fingers or hands into a door that can close on them is risky, yet Disney repeatedly reminds guests of this very common sense risk, in multiple languages no less, multiple times every day -- and they even sell t-shirts with the warning phrase as souvenirs.

 

[cepmom]

just pointing out the comments that walking in the water is different than swimming....yes they are and technically when I'm in the water up to my shoulders I am walking. Its not swimming. So the people that are saying walking is different than swimming are for whatever reason trying to justify the difference. And really, when sign says no swimming one doesn't to need to understand or like the rule, just follow it.
edit - this was supposed to have a quote added, not sure why it didn't go through
I'm not just randomly spouting off at no one lol