All You Bought Was a Room

[kilik64]

People buy dvc for the parks sure, but buying DVC and feeling like you are owed the ability to get a annual pass because of it? Nope, you bought a room homie. You're not owed anything else.

 

[Rochester Disney Fan]

My feelings toward Disney are invariably colored by the full duration of our DVC ownership. We took our first family trip to WDW in late 2002 and became members about a year later. And here's how things compare to those early days:

Magical Express: Did not exist

Magic Bands: Did not exist

Dining Plan: Did not exist, and we've never used it

Extra Magic Hours: Not operating (post 9/11). The current variant isn't my favorite, but it's gone thru many revisions over the years.

FastPass: Paper tickets. Personally I prefer the recent FP+ variant, but I still like the current Genie+ system better than the original paper FP which required running across the parks and standing in lines for tickets. Genie does have the advantage of no tiered attractions and multiple parks per day, plus it's more realistic to get more than 3 rides per day.

Park Pass: It's an annoyance, but can be overcome with a minuscule amount of advance planning. Certainly less effort than making FP+ reservations 60 days in advance. And if I'm taking the "glass is half full" approach, on a day when MK attendance is so high that they aren't allowing any more Park Pass reservations, I'd prefer to choose another park anyway.

DVC perks: No Moonlight Magic, no private lounges, no merchandise discount, dining discounts limited to about 20-30 locations

Number of DVC resorts: 7

Annual Passes: available but no DVC discount. Also we were never heavy AP buyers, having them only about 15-20% of the time. Non-expiring tickets were the greater loss.

Often it's a case of Disney giveth and Disney taketh away. New attractions, perks, performers, fireworks make way for the old. Some additions are better. Some are worse. The cost is undoubtedly higher, and we all have to perform our own cost/benefit analysis. I don't begrudge anyone who decides that their 100th ride on It's a Small World will be their last. At the same time, I can't really pinpoint any exact period in time when WDW was superior, with the expectation that things remain unchanged or continue to only improve.

I haven't been a Member quite as long as you, I joined in 2008. I looked at your list though and did my own comparison. The biggest difference was the discount for an annual pass, ME, and the dining plan did exist but I stopped using the dining plans when the kids turned 10 because it lost it's value. You have really made me feel better about my membership because you have reminded me of some of the new perks which helps offset what they took back. Suddenly some of my recent bitterness towards Disney has been blunted a little . Thanks !!

 

[DVCsloth]

People buy dvc for the parks sure, but buying DVC and feeling like you are owed the ability to get a annual pass because of it? Nope, you bought a room homie. You're not owed anything else.

That's pretty much how I look at it, but they sure show a lot of extras with all their sales literature.

 

[lowlight]

People buy dvc for the parks sure, but buying DVC and feeling like you are owed the ability to get a annual pass because of it? Nope, you bought a room homie. You're not owed anything else.

People always argue this, but I never see anyone saying they're owed an AP. I said it in the last thread- DVC works for me because of the AP. I won't keep DVC if I don't have an AP, because it doesn't make sense to have over a weeks worth of DVC points and no AP (to me). I'm not owed it, but I also realize the synergy they have and how many sales they must have gotten with the allure of it, promises or not.

 

[jakenjess]

Yes, I know I only bought a room. But, to agree with WilsonFlyer, we never would have bought a room at DVC were it not for the entirety of WDW. The resorts are wonderful and we enjoy our trips, even without spending as much time in the parks as we used to, but the decline in value of the parks really bothers me. I'm so happy our kids were little when things were different. As empty nesters we enjoy many things outside the parks and feel we are getting our money's worth for now. We'll see what happens in the next few years. We were fortunate enough to already have APs and have continued to renew them, but I really don't understand DVC members not being able to buy APs.

 

[BeachClub2014]

People buy dvc for the parks sure, but buying DVC and feeling like you are owed the ability to get a annual pass because of it? Nope, you bought a room homie. You're not owed anything else.

Well, you aren't actually "buying" the room in the truest sense of the word buy. You're prepaying for the use of the room at a fixed rate, absent the annual dues, and that right to use the room expires at a specific date.

I don't think anyone really argues that point, at least I don't. I do, however, think that I am "owed" the opportunity (opportunity being the key word here) to purchase an annual pass to get into the parks that are the primary reason DVC exists.

We can have endless debates about legalese language in contracts, disclaimers on websites, etc. but at the end of the day, I bet the overwhelming majority of people buying DVC are buying access to magical vacations, not just a room.

 

[kilik64]

Well, you aren't actually "buying" the room in the truest sense of the word buy. You're prepaying for the use of the room at a fixed rate, absent the annual dues, and that right to use the room expires at a specific date.

I don't think anyone really argues that point, at least I don't. I do, however, think that I am "owed" the opportunity (opportunity being the key word here) to purchase an annual pass to get into the parks that are the primary reason DVC exists.

We can have endless debates about legalese language in contracts, disclaimers on websites, etc. but at the end of the day, I bet the overwhelming majority of people buying DVC are buying access to magical vacations, not just a room.

And you have the access, you just gotta buy tickets if you don't have an AP.

 

[BeachClub2014]

And you have the access, you just gotta buy tickets if you don't have an AP.

Actually, I do have an AP, so I am all set.

But that wasn't the point, which I am also sure you understood. We won't agree, which is fine, but I do feel as if DVC members are owed the opportunity to purchase an AP. DVC markets and sells the dream, then the rug gets pulled from under many DVC'ers who are reliant on AP's.

 

[tjkraz]

The only constant with Disney is change. Over the years, point charts have changed making certain date more expensive while others are cheaper. This was especially true of the weekday / weekend rebalance.

FastPass / Genie has changed several times.

Transportation has changed, not just to/from MCO but things like Uber and Amazon Fresh have opened up new opportunities.

Dining prices and discounts often influence how much time we spend in Disney sit down restaurants vs counter service vs eating out of our villa.

Tickets are kind of the same. There was a time where we could buy 10-day non-expiring passes and stretch it over multiple trips. There was a time when we would occasionally buy APs and squeeze in multiple stays using 2 or 3 years worth of points.

Now longer trips may be the way to go. You can get a 10-day park hopper for less than the cost of a Sorcerer AP. So maybe we focus our usage on one trip per year. Combine that with the occasional non-park trip, maybe adding a 1 day Disney ticket or visiting Universal. Or we use some points for Aulani/HHI/Vero. Or we sell the excess points that would push us beyond 7-10 nights per year.

Some would probably view this as me letting Disney "win", changing my habits in accordance with their whims. But the game has always been changing. Walking away out of anger or spite isn't my style. It's not "all or nothing." Me quitting Disney on philosophical grounds hurts exactly one person: me. As long as our family enjoys the destination and sees value, we'll maintain some attachment to Disney / DVC. But I can confidently say that I don't blindly open my wallet to them. I still have the power to make every one of those purchase decisions.

And if Disney eventually suffers because myself and thousands of others are not visiting as often, not buying more DVC points, not eating in their restaurants, going to Universal, that's on them.

 

[lowlight]

The only constant with Disney is change. Over the years, point charts have changed making certain date more expensive while others are cheaper. This was especially true of the weekday / weekend rebalance.

FastPass / Genie has changed several times.

Transportation has changed, not just to/from MCO but things like Uber and Amazon Fresh have opened up new opportunities.

Dining prices and discounts often influence how much time we spend in Disney sit down restaurants vs counter service vs eating out of our villa.

Tickets are kind of the same. There was a time where we could buy 10-day non-expiring passes and stretch it over multiple trips. There was a time when we would occasionally buy APs and squeeze in multiple stays using 2 or 3 years worth of points.

Now longer trips may be the way to go. You can get a 10-day park hopper for less than the cost of a Sorcerer AP. So maybe we focus our usage on one trip per year. Combine that with the occasional non-park trip, maybe adding a 1 day Disney ticket or visiting Universal. Or we use some points for Aulani/HHI/Vero. Or we sell the excess points that would push us beyond 7-10 nights per year.

Some would probably view this as me letting Disney "win", changing my habits in accordance with their whims. But the game has always been changing. Walking away out of anger or spite isn't my style. It's not "all or nothing." Me quitting Disney on philosophical grounds hurts exactly one person: me. As long as our family enjoys the destination and sees value, we'll maintain some attachment to Disney / DVC. But I can confidently say that I don't blindly open my wallet to them. I still have the power to make every one of those purchase decisions.

And if Disney eventually suffers because myself and thousands of others are not visiting as often, not buying more DVC points, not eating in their restaurants, going to Universal, that's on them.

This isn’t just Disney removing AP’s, it’s Disney raising prices on everything and removing AP’s. I feel like AP’s are just a symptom to what many of us are really feeling, which is priced out. Every way frequent goers used to be able to squeeze out value is/has been eliminated. Unlike a normal timeshare, everything that happens on property affects DVC. It’s great that you are so flexible, but you have been a member for awhile and your kids are likely older. Many of us didn’t get “the glory years” out of our membership yet.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

And you have the access, you just gotta buy tickets if you don't have an AP.

Actually, I do have an AP, so I am all set.

But that wasn't the point, which I am also sure you understood. We won't agree, which is fine, but I do feel as if DVC members are owed the opportunity to purchase an AP. DVC markets and sells the dream, then the rug gets pulled from under many DVC'ers who are reliant on AP's.

Exactly, @kilik64 … Everyone has access to an AP right now. The problem is it would cost roughly $25k.
So, what Members here really want (think they are owed?) is a discounted AP.

When I purchased in 2002 everything was spelled out very clearly for me, as in no guarantee the parks would remain open. I took my chances and won, but if they did close it was on me for taking the risk.

 

[tjkraz]

This isn’t just Disney removing AP’s, it’s Disney raising prices on everything and removing AP’s.

The world is more expensive than it was 2-3 years ago and sadly, Disney is no different. The same factors that are causing my grocery bill and auto expenses to rise are impacting Disney. And I know Disney's profits are quite healthy but....capitalism. Expecting Disney to hold the line on prices amidst higher operating costs and healthy consumer demand simply isn't realistic.

I'm not just speaking from a "been there, done that" perspective after 20 years. I've lived countless price increases and service adjustments. I've had kids go from free to child prices to adult prices, while having rate hikes piled on top of it.

The first time we ate dinner at Crystal Palace (2004), the cost was $21.99 per adult. And we had one child and one under age 3. A 6-day Park Hopper ticket was $293.94. MVMCP was $39.36 per person. 2022 isn't the first year for rate hikes. Pandemic or no--Chapek or no--2019's rates are gone. For every trip, it's always a game of give and take. Where am I willing to alter my patterns vs tweak my budget to land within my comfort zone?

Crystal Palace dinner costs $10 more than last time we visited? I guess we'll eat a cheaper lunch. Or we'll find another place to eat. Or we'll throw a "resort day" into our trip and eat sandwiches at the pool to save money. Or we'll suck it up and pay the extra.

No more free MagicBands? I'll use an old one. Or my phone. Or get a KTTW card from the desk.

Now I have to pay for Genie+ to skip lines? I'll do it 2 or 3 days during my visit to load-up on the most popular attractions, while sticking to the more moderate waits other days. And I'll use EMH and Late Night Hours if necessary.

 

[BeachClub2014]

Exactly, @kilik64 … Everyone has access to an AP right now. The problem is it would cost roughly $25k.
So, what Members here really want (think they are owed?) is a discounted AP.

When I purchased in 2002 everything was spelled out very clearly for me, as in no guarantee the parks would remain open. I took my chances and won, but if they did close it was on me for taking the risk.

It's silly to suggest that everyone has access to an AP now and that it would cost $25K. That's simply not true.

I am not asking for a discounted AP and it is somewhat condescending for you to suggest that is what all members here are asking for.

Again, we can agree to disagree on whether DVC owners should feel as if they are owed the opportunity to buy an AP. If you don't share that feeling, then marvelous. Not all of us are willing to just shrug our shoulders and accept the mantra of "all you bought was a room."

 

[dez1978]

I knew what I was getting going into it becasue I'd been on these boards reading and researching ahead of time. I knew that in the fine print was the whole "perks are subject to change and not guaranteed". I think it's silly that we don't have the opportunity to buy AP. We bought DVC Jan 2020 while we were there on our 2nd trip. Planned to get AP's for our next trip the following year. Never had that chance. So no, not everyone has had access to them. I will also say that while I knew going in what I was getting, it's shady that it's not mentioned any time during the tour or sales pitch that it could go away. The guide made sure he really pushed the discounts and AP and magic express etc. Never once was it mentioned that those could be taken away. And for those who aren't researching and just fall for the pitch, I can see why they would be mad, even tho they should have done some research before hand.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

It's silly to suggest that everyone has access to an AP now and that it would cost $25K. That's simply not true.

I am not asking for a discounted AP and it is somewhat condescending for you to suggest that is what all members here are asking for.

Again, we can agree to disagree on whether DVC owners should feel as if they are owed the opportunity to buy an AP. If you don't share that feeling, then marvelous. Not all of us are willing to just shrug our shoulders and accept the mantra of "all you bought was a room."

Actually it is true, it’s just not practical.
You can purchase 36 ten day tickets for about that, giving you 365 day access.

 

[BeachClub2014]

Actually it is true.
You can purchase 36 ten day tickets for about that, giving you 365 day access.

Or you could buy 365 1-day tickets for even more money.

I knew what you meant and it's still just a condescending, sarcastic response.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Or you could buy 365 1-day tickets for even more money.

I knew what you meant and it's still just a condescending, sarcastic response.

Sorry you took it that way. I was just illustrating that Members are not denied park access, but rather the price went up.

 

[kilik64]

Actually it is true, it’s just not practical.
You can purchase 36 ten day tickets for about that, giving you 365 day access.

With no blackout dates!

 

[BeachClub2014]

Sorry you took it that way. I was just illustrating that Members are not denied park access, but rather the price went up.

LOL, I'm not sure there is another way to take it, but whatever.

And, just to set the record straight, I have been referring to the lack of access to AP in my comments. At no point did I say that DVC members have been denied park access.

I stand by my belief that DVC members are owed the opportunity to buy AP's, DVC is selling the dream and the magic. Heck, our original guide was the one who showed us how to manipulate vacation planning to overlap vacations within the year to maximize the use of an AP. I guarantee you in that the discussion the guide never mentioned for us to be cautious as Disney might stop selling AP's. I readily admit that our guide made no promises or false representations, but let's at least have the intellectual honesty that guides are inextricably linking the parks, the magic and the "dream" when selling DVC.

 

[kilik64]

LOL, I'm not sure there is another way to take it, but whatever.

And, just to set the record straight, I have been referring to the lack of access to AP in my comments. At no point did I say that DVC members have been denied park access.

I stand by my belief that DVC members are owed the opportunity to buy AP's, DVC is selling the dream and the magic. Heck, our original guide was the one who showed us how to manipulate vacation planning to overlap vacations within the year to maximize the use of an AP. I guarantee you in that the discussion the guide never mentioned for us to be cautious as Disney might stop selling AP's. I readily admit that our guide made no promises or false representations, but let's at least have the intellectual honesty that guides are inextricably linking the parks, the magic and the "dream" when selling DVC.

For which you don't have to have an AP to enjoy. You can buy all the park tickets you want.

The sense of entitlement over AP purchasing is truly something else.