Alcohol at Be Our Guest

[Magpie]

Still not seeing where he indicated anything about single people nor adults without children. And I'm sure the Disney company has just 'hated' this single woman's 30+ WDW visits and 5 or so DL visits, though they seem to take my money quite readily. If you want to go down a path of 1950s marketing, of which I am not sure that he ONLY marketed to the nuclear family (again, citation please), then we better check to make sure there was marketing, if any, to people of color --the 50s being what they were.
Which is what makes all these arguments about what Walt would have wanted, before his death, in 2012. NO ONE KNOWS!!!

I'm not sure why you're taking this so personally. Clearly I'm not explaining myself well...

Back in the 50's Disney was marketing to the white, middle-class nuclear family. The "rowdy element" weren't bringing their kids, and didn't fit that picture. They were ADULTS looking for alcohol and a good time, and Walt didn't want to attract that element at first.

Of course the Disney company has enjoyed your multiple visits. AFTER the 60's the company gradually expanded their offerings to appeal to more than just mom-dad-and-2.5 kids. To appeal to YOU, in fact.

And no, of course they weren't originally marketing to people of colour. Just look at some of the original offerings, Aunt Jemima's pancake restaurant - definitely not intended to appeal to African Americans. Though I'm not sure why that's relevant to this discussion, except to note that marketing changes with the times and the Disney corporation has wisely decided to broaden their appeal to more segments of society.

I don't care or know what Walt wanted, myself. I'm merely noting that the company has evolved - in a GOOD way - over the decades.

And I'm happy about that!

 

[BEASLYBOO]

A couple of questions for those of you against this:

1) Since EPCOT is full of falling down drunk people, do you confine your Disney vacation to just the MK so you can avoid this? I believe AK and HS also serve drinks. While I have never seen anyone falling over drunk I am sure there are people walking around under the influence in all three other parks.

And, aren't these drunken people peeing in the bushes at Epcot the same people you then see at MK, DHS etc.. Gosh and Park Hoppers, the perfect vehicle for drunken people to travel from park to park... Walt would be against Park Hoppers, he wouldn't want the drunks to be able to intermingle!2)

Since you do not want your children exposed to drinking, do you avoid all establishments that serve alcohol - including Applebees?

3) Those of you who claim to know what Walt wants over 40 years later - are some of you the same folks who slammed me when I used this argument a few months back? I know now how silly it is to claim to know what someone I never met, who has been dead for quite a while, and was a true visionary would want today.

4) Why do some of you feel that having a drink and enjoying your family are mutually exclusive? Do you really feel that wine is anti-family?

I applaud you and here, just in case the flames get too bad!

 

[ironz]

I'm not sure why you're taking this so personally. Clearly I'm not explaining myself well...

Back in the 50's Disney was marketing to the white, middle-class nuclear family. The "rowdy element" weren't bringing their kids, and didn't fit that picture. They were ADULTS looking for alcohol and a good time, and Walt didn't want to attract that element at first.

Of course the Disney company has enjoyed your multiple visits. AFTER the 60's the company gradually expanded their offerings to appeal to more than just mom-dad-and-2.5 kids. To appeal to YOU, in fact.

And no, of course they weren't originally marketing to people of colour. Just look at some of the original offerings, Aunt Jemima's pancake restaurant - definitely not intended to appeal to African Americans. Though I'm not sure why that's relevant to this discussion, except to note that marketing changes with the times and the Disney corporation has wisely decided to broaden their appeal to more segments of society.

I don't care or know what Walt wanted, myself. I'm merely noting that the company has evolved - in a GOOD way - over the decades.

And I'm happy about that!

We are definitely agreeing more than we disagree, but I am just not seeing anywhere that Walt indicated either way about childless adults. I cannot see your jump from the "rowdy element" to that at all. That is why I am "taking it personally" or rather, just trying to understand why you made the jump from "rowdy element" to childless adults (married or not). If anyone wants to make the jump from 'child molester' to childless adult, then they are so hugely misguided, I can't even fathom. And I don't fully get that while the advertising may have been targeted to the nuclear family, that wouldn't necessarily indicate that Disney didn't want childless adults to visit. Advertising for laundry soap is most often targeted at busy moms, but single people do laundry, too.

From a Saturday Evening Post interview, I believe in 1956, this is supposedly the full quote (copied and pasted from another forum):

Pete Martin: Let's talk a little about Disneyland and how it's so different from other amusement parks.

Walt: It really takes a person more than a day to see the park without exhausting themselves. And as I get these new things in, it's going to take more time. It's one of those things that people who come in here for the first time and everything's there and they sort of make a hog of themselves, you see? Well, a lot of people come back the third time and just like to sit and listen to the band, see the horses going around. I like to go down and sit by the river and watch the people. Chewing gum sticks up things so we don't sell it. And peanut shells. We sell the unshelled. But shelled peanuts, they just crumble them and throw them all over the place. And nothing with round sticks. People trip on them. The ice cream bars got flat sticks and I won't sell any of this spun candy because the kids get it and get it all over everything and people get it on their hands. No liquor, no beer, nothing. Because that brings in a rowdy element. That brings people that we don't want and I feel they don't need it. I feel when I go down to the park I don't need a drink. I work around that place all day and I don't have one. After I come out of a heavy day at the studio sometimes I want a drink to relax. When it comes to Disneyland, I feel I've given the public everything I can give them. My daughter, Diane, says that I spend too much time around the house talking about how I can give them more for their money when they come to the park. You've got to build. You've got to keep it clean. You don't want to walk in a dirty toilet. I won't have 'em. My toilets are **** and span. And you know another thing, I have to have police so there's no child molesters there. I've got plainclothesmen. They can leave their kids to run around and I have safety inspectors. It's run in a high class manner and I have a high class clientele. The people who go to the park are from all walks of life but they look like solid Americans. That's pretty high class.

 

[LunaCup]

A couple of questions for those of you against this:

1) Since EPCOT is full of falling down drunk people, do you confine your Disney vacation to just the MK so you can avoid this? I believe AK and HS also serve drinks. While I have never seen anyone falling over drunk I am sure there are people walking around under the influence in all three other parks.

2) Since you do not want your children exposed to drinking, do you avoid all establishments that serve alcohol - including Applebees?

3) Those of you who claim to know what Walt wants over 40 years later - are some of you the same folks who slammed me when I used this argument a few months back? I know now how silly it is to claim to know what someone I never met, who has been dead for quite a while, and was a true visionary would want today.

4) Why do some of you feel that having a drink and enjoying your family are mutually exclusive? Do you really feel that wine is anti-family?

Haha, love this. My personal opinion is that we don't know what Walt wanted. His opinions may have evolved with the time as he was very innovative. I don't think offering beer/wine at one single location in MK is going to effect the park atmosphere. People won't be going there to get drunk but rather will drink to enhance their dining experience. This argument seems to be getting way too heated IMO. I can see people being upset if they offered alcohol at stands throughout MK but at one location to go with the theming (I mean come on it is French) and only at dinner time, is it really something to get that upset about?

On a side note in reference to the above quote, Epcot is one of my favorite parks and I have been there more times than I can count. I can honestly say there was only once that I ever saw people who were obviously intoxicated and that was on St. Patrick's day.

 

[Princess_taffy05]

Back in 1984 there was a murder at Disneyland (yes, right in tomorrowland). The people involved had been drinking. They arrived at the park already drunk.
This can happen at anytime, anywhere. It happened at Disney.
Serving a limited amount of wine and beer at dinner only at one restaurant in MK will not harm anyone anymore than a drunk idiot who has been drinking elsewhere entering the park and causing trouble.

Just a thought on a broader, scarier scale...

 

[Princess_taffy05]

Oops..it was 1981.

 

[PaulaSB12]

I'm not sure why you're taking this so personally. Clearly I'm not explaining myself well...

Back in the 50's Disney was marketing to the white, middle-class nuclear family. The "rowdy element" weren't bringing their kids, and didn't fit that picture. They were ADULTS looking for alcohol and a good time, and Walt didn't want to attract that element at first.

Of course the Disney company has enjoyed your multiple visits. AFTER the 60's the company gradually expanded their offerings to appeal to more than just mom-dad-and-2.5 kids. To appeal to YOU, in fact.

And no, of course they weren't originally marketing to people of colour. Just look at some of the original offerings, Aunt Jemima's pancake restaurant - definitely not intended to appeal to African Americans. Though I'm not sure why that's relevant to this discussion, except to note that marketing changes with the times and the Disney corporation has wisely decided to broaden their appeal to more segments of society.

I don't care or know what Walt wanted, myself. I'm merely noting that the company has evolved - in a GOOD way - over the decades.

And I'm happy about that!

You are definitely not making yourself clear, first you say I can't be drinking sensibly then you say that people like me (single no kids) are not what Walt wanted as guests. The main reason I go to disney is because how welcome I am made to feel as a single. Yes I have a drink or two when I am at disney but I didn't even bother with a hire car last visit and I am not going to next time so I am being very sensible. I can't drink to the point of being drunk two a day is my limit and that is what I stick with after that I just don't want to drink any more.

 

[buffettgirl]

We are definitely agreeing more than we disagree, but I am just not seeing anywhere that Walt indicated either way about childless adults. I cannot see your jump from the "rowdy element" to that at all. That is why I am "taking it personally" or rather, just trying to understand why you made the jump from "rowdy element" to childless adults (married or not). If anyone wants to make the jump from 'child molester' to childless adult, then they are so hugely misguided, I can't even fathom. And I don't fully get that while the advertising may have been targeted to the nuclear family, that wouldn't necessarily indicate that Disney didn't want childless adults to visit. Advertising for laundry soap is most often targeted at busy moms, but single people do laundry, too.

From a Saturday Evening Post interview, I believe in 1956, this is supposedly the full quote (copied and pasted from another forum):

Pete Martin: Let's talk a little about Disneyland and how it's so different from other amusement parks.

Walt: It really takes a person more than a day to see the park without exhausting themselves. And as I get these new things in, it's going to take more time. It's one of those things that people who come in here for the first time and everything's there and they sort of make a hog of themselves, you see? Well, a lot of people come back the third time and just like to sit and listen to the band, see the horses going around. I like to go down and sit by the river and watch the people. Chewing gum sticks up things so we don't sell it. And peanut shells. We sell the unshelled. But shelled peanuts, they just crumble them and throw them all over the place. And nothing with round sticks. People trip on them. The ice cream bars got flat sticks and I won't sell any of this spun candy because the kids get it and get it all over everything and people get it on their hands. No liquor, no beer, nothing. Because that brings in a rowdy element. That brings people that we don't want and I feel they don't need it. I feel when I go down to the park I don't need a drink. I work around that place all day and I don't have one. After I come out of a heavy day at the studio sometimes I want a drink to relax. When it comes to Disneyland, I feel I've given the public everything I can give them. My daughter, Diane, says that I spend too much time around the house talking about how I can give them more for their money when they come to the park. You've got to build. You've got to keep it clean. You don't want to walk in a dirty toilet. I won't have 'em. My toilets are **** and span. And you know another thing, I have to have police so there's no child molesters there. I've got plainclothesmen. They can leave their kids to run around and I have safety inspectors. It's run in a high class manner and I have a high class clientele. The people who go to the park are from all walks of life but they look like solid Americans. That's pretty high class.

OMG noes to the cotton candy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and noes to all the candy in the candy store...on round sticks!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and I guess all the Budget Boarders are out of luck because Walt didn't want you either - only high class people. Not people who cook food in the coffeepot in their room.

Back in Walt's day respectable women didn't drink in public, so if you had alcohol it was only going to be consumed by men. Views on alcohol in 2012 are vastly different. Drinking doesn't make someone low class and it doesn't take away from the family environment he was going for. Many very high class people drink wine (wine tastings anyone?) and many very high class people brew and taste beer. These are not the evils walt was trying to avoid.

 

[Magpie]

We are definitely agreeing more than we disagree, but I am just not seeing anywhere that Walt indicated either way about childless adults. I cannot see your jump from the "rowdy element" to that at all. That is why I am "taking it personally" or rather, just trying to understand why you made the jump from "rowdy element" to childless adults (married or not). If anyone wants to make the jump from 'child molester' to childless adult, then they are so hugely misguided, I can't even fathom. And I don't fully get that while the advertising may have been targeted to the nuclear family, that wouldn't necessarily indicate that Disney didn't want childless adults to visit. Advertising for laundry soap is most often targeted at busy moms, but single people do laundry, too.

From a Saturday Evening Post interview, I believe in 1956, this is supposedly the full quote (copied and pasted from another forum):

Pete Martin: Let's talk a little about Disneyland and how it's so different from other amusement parks.

Walt: It really takes a person more than a day to see the park without exhausting themselves. And as I get these new things in, it's going to take more time. It's one of those things that people who come in here for the first time and everything's there and they sort of make a hog of themselves, you see? Well, a lot of people come back the third time and just like to sit and listen to the band, see the horses going around. I like to go down and sit by the river and watch the people. Chewing gum sticks up things so we don't sell it. And peanut shells. We sell the unshelled. But shelled peanuts, they just crumble them and throw them all over the place. And nothing with round sticks. People trip on them. The ice cream bars got flat sticks and I won't sell any of this spun candy because the kids get it and get it all over everything and people get it on their hands. No liquor, no beer, nothing. Because that brings in a rowdy element. That brings people that we don't want and I feel they don't need it. I feel when I go down to the park I don't need a drink. I work around that place all day and I don't have one. After I come out of a heavy day at the studio sometimes I want a drink to relax. When it comes to Disneyland, I feel I've given the public everything I can give them. My daughter, Diane, says that I spend too much time around the house talking about how I can give them more for their money when they come to the park. You've got to build. You've got to keep it clean. You don't want to walk in a dirty toilet. I won't have 'em. My toilets are **** and span. And you know another thing, I have to have police so there's no child molesters there. I've got plainclothesmen. They can leave their kids to run around and I have safety inspectors. It's run in a high class manner and I have a high class clientele. The people who go to the park are from all walks of life but they look like solid Americans. That's pretty high class.

"Solid Americans" in 1956 had kids, or were planning to have kids ASAP. They had homes. They had jobs. And they were not ethnic or of any other race than white. (Even the Irish didn't qualify as "solid Americans" in the 1950s, as my own mother found out when she was deemed "too Irish" to date a nice Protestant boy.)

"All walks of life" just meant that they wouldn't discriminate against blue collar workers. It was playing to the egalitarian American small town ideal which was a pretty insular and isolationist thing at the time.

You are definitely not making yourself clear, first you say I can't be drinking sensibly then you say that people like me (single no kids) are not what Walt wanted as guests. The main reason I go to disney is because how welcome I am made to feel as a single. Yes I have a drink or two when I am at disney but I didn't even bother with a hire car last visit and I am not going to next time so I am being very sensible. I can't drink to the point of being drunk two a day is my limit and that is what I stick with after that I just don't want to drink any more.

Folks, I am NOT talking about today's single adult happily visiting Walt Disney World. I am NOT saying Disney doesn't love you, or that you can't drink responsibly, or that you are in any way a lesser human being.

All I am talking about is that when Disneyland opened, Walt wanted to create a park that didn't attract the "rowdy element", such as you might see on Bourbon Street after dark. People who are out to get drunk and have a good time. People without children either in the literal sense, or in the sense that they sensibly left them at home.

Thankfully things have changed. In many, many ways. Disneyland wasn't a welcoming place to gay couples in the 50's and 60's. Today it is. Hurray!

And, in case this has been lost in this discussion, I am PRO wine and beer at BOG. In fact, yesterday I sent a letter to guest services congratulating them on their decision to serve alcohol with dinner. I am also a non-drinker, so I have no personal stake in this.

As I sign off, here's some vintage advertising to enjoy:

 

[Scrappy_Tink]

The only thing I'm upset about, is they don't have Rosa Regale on the menu...I guess because it's an Italian wine, not French. *sigh* Anyone familiar with the other wines on the menu...I like 'em sweet!

 

[Scrappy_Tink]

Okay, i'm too lazy to go through every post again to see if it's already been posted, but here's a good link to the full Wine and Beer Menu...

http://i1.disneyfoodblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/be-our-guest-menu-beverage.pdf

 

[Pygoplites]

The only thing I'm upset about, is they don't have Rosa Regale on the menu...I guess because it's an Italian wine, not French. *sigh* Anyone familiar with the other wines on the menu...I like 'em sweet!

They have a Sauternes (think: "dessert in a glass'). The Tavel rose, although dry, has a lot of fruit notes and a floral/fruity aroma and is very "food-friendly."

 

[Jafar30]

There are some good beers on that list

 

[maediya]

There are some good beers on that list

Yeah I do like Chimay a lot, its strong though. Hoegaarten has a funny aftertaste that I don't care for, I have tried that in Belgium. Wish they had some Leffe, thats a good, not too strong, beer.

I am really looking forward to trying this new restuarant and I for one am happy to see they are serving alcohol!

 

[jekajekalynn]

I for one am happy about this..

IMO "It's a Small World", can only be somewhat tolerated with a little imbibing .

 

[Waltgirl]

A couple of questions for those of you against this:

1) Since EPCOT is full of falling down drunk people, do you confine your Disney vacation to just the MK so you can avoid this? I believe AK and HS also serve drinks. While I have never seen anyone falling over drunk I am sure there are people walking around under the influence in all three other parks.

2) Since you do not want your children exposed to drinking, do you avoid all establishments that serve alcohol - including Applebees?

3) Those of you who claim to know what Walt wants over 40 years later - are some of you the same folks who slammed me when I used this argument a few months back? I know now how silly it is to claim to know what someone I never met, who has been dead for quite a while, and was a true visionary would want today.

4) Why do some of you feel that having a drink and enjoying your family are mutually exclusive? Do you really feel that wine is anti-family?

1) Just because I have seen a couple of excessively drunk people at Epcot, as have others, no one has said "it is full of drunk people" you are being facetious and sarcastic and there is no reason for that. We are adults here. Personally, I have not noticed an issue in AK or DHS, as much as in Epcot. I do not go looking for it, I only notice when it affects me in some manner.

2) We never go to Applebees or other chain type restaurants because the food quality is terrible. But to answer your question, yes, I avoided restaurants that included a bar, not just that served alcohol-there is a difference, especially in the evenings when they tend to fill up with patrons there solely to imbibe. I also avoid Epcot in the evenings-save for a single night each trip to view Illuminations-because I love that show so much.

3) Don't know if others claimed to KNOW what Walt would have wanted. I think most are really attempting to express Walt's opinion regarding alcohol in the MK. Also that TDC itself decided to uphold that tradition for decades.

4) I have no idea what you are talking about here, re: antifamily? Perhaps someone else can answer or clarify.

Sorry to jump in here if this was directed to someone else.

 

[buffettgirl]

1) Just because I have seen a couple of excessively drunk people at Epcot, as have others, no one has said "it is full of drunk people" you are being facetious and sarcastic and there is no reason for that. We are adults here. Personally, I have not noticed an issue in AK or DHS, as much as in Epcot. I do not go looking for it, I only notice when it affects me in some manner.

2) We never go to Applebees or other chain type restaurants because the food quality is terrible. But to answer your question, yes, I avoided restaurants that included a bar, not just that served alcohol-there is a difference, especially in the evenings when they tend to fill up with patrons there solely to imbibe. I also avoid Epcot in the evenings-save for a single night each trip to view Illuminations-because I love that show so much.

3) Don't know if others claimed to KNOW what Walt would have wanted. I think most are really attempting to express Walt's opinion regarding alcohol in the MK. Also that TDC itself decided to uphold that tradition for decades.

4) I have no idea what you are talking about here, re: antifamily? Perhaps someone else can answer or clarify.

Sorry to jump in here if this was directed to someone else.

I think everything you just said says far more about your own attitudes regarding alcohol than anything else. The fact that you avoid any restaurant that has a bar severely limits the places where you must eat as most restaurants (other than...cracker barrel?) have alcohol and bars. Most restaurants at WDW have sub par food as well - do you avoid them?

Now, there is nothing wrong with having those attitudes, for yourself, and for your family, but expecting others to uphold this very very narrow view of alcohol is a bit unrealistic.

If BOG bothers you because someone might be drinking near you, then stay away from it. If the policies of WDW bother you, stay away. It's really that simple.

 

[Scrappy_Tink]

They have a Sauternes (think: "dessert in a glass'). The Tavel rose, although dry, has a lot of fruit notes and a floral/fruity aroma and is very "food-friendly."

OMG, we had Chateau Doisy Vedrines at Remy on our Dream Cruise...I just looked at the label and it says "Sauternes"....if the one on the menu is 1/2 as good as that one, I'll be in love!

There are some good beers on that list

Ack!! I was a late bloomer when I had my first drink (19) and tried beer...I could never figure out why someone would waste time drinking something so gross to "acquire" the taste....I'd rather have my Pepsi! I like my frou-frou drinks though!!

I for one am happy about this..

IMO "It's a Small World", can only be somewhat tolerated with a little imbibing .

The last guy I saw up in the window running IASW looked like he was either intoxicated or on drugs....or just plain went around the bend, dancing around waving his hands in the air...me and DH were laughing about it. I would have to wear earplugs if I worked there...I wonder if that's where they send the "bad CMs"?

 

[JimmyV]

Anyone familiar with the other wines on the menu...I like 'em sweet!

Here's a link to a thread on the wine list.
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2992596

There is only one sweet wine on the list: The La Fleur d'Or Sauternes. It is described on the menu as having flavors of peach and plum, but I would say that it is more in line with orange marmalade and apricot. The price per glass is fair, but the bottle price is rather high. The retail price of this wine is around $18-$20. If you notice, most wines on the list have a bottle price that is around 4.5 times the per glass price. But the La Fleur bottle price is more than 7 times the per glass price. Not sure how many people they think they are going to fool here. You are much better off getting it by the glass, even if everyone at the table is going to have some. A party of 6 can have 6 glasses for $54. Why buy a bottle at $67?

 

[Scrappy_Tink]

Here's a link to a thread on the wine list.
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2992596

There is only one sweet wine on the list: The La Fleur d'Or Sauternes. It is described on the menu as having flavors of peach and plum, but I would say that it is more in line with orange marmalade and apricot. The price per glass is fair, but the bottle price is rather high. The retail price of this wine is around $18-$20. If you notice, most wines on the list have a bottle price that is around 4.5 times the per glass price. But the La Fleur bottle price is more than 7 times the per glass price. Not sure how many people they think they are going to fool here. You are much better off getting it by the glass, even if everyone at the table is going to have some. A party of 6 can have 6 glasses for $54. Why buy a bottle at $67?

You know I didn't even think of the whole bottle issue...if you don't finish the bottle, are they going to re-cork it for you? Somehow I doubt it, as that would open another whole can of worms...unless they have it waiting for you at the exit gate!!