AK Attendence

Scoop, I think you are ignoring my point about the majority of WDW ticket purchases "bundling" all the parks together. Just for my edification, please type "GC, I don't think that the fact that AK is available with UPH's, PH's, PH+'s, FLRSP's, FRAP's, FRPAP's, AP's and PAP's has anything to do with it's attendance nor gives it an advantage over IOA, USF & SWO which are not bundled together with the majority of ticket purchases that include two of three most highly attended theme parks in the USA." That way, I'll know that you disagree with the statement and are not just ignoring it. Thanks.
 
The only park that I believe would have totally portable attendance (i.e. wherever you put it, it would not lose any appreciable number of guests is the Magic Kingdom.
I agree. However, I truly believe this would not have been the case twenty years ago with EPCOT. It is the stagnation and lack of direction for this park that causes it to be lumped into the “lesser” category. When it was truly innovative it really did rival the Magic Kingdom!!

And Greg’s point is really dead on the money!

(Normally I wouldn’t give personal, anecdotal evidence but since: )
Personal taste is an indispensible element of one's evaluation of Disney.

In my case, when I DO NOT have annual passes, NONE of my family members visit AK! It is considered a waste of time and of a ticket! However, when we have annuals we always spend a half a day there, just because it’s there. It is a diversion and it isn’t “HORRIBLE”. Yes Scoop, it is ‘not bad’, which unfortunately is a far cry from “GREAT!!” Or even ‘very good’. But it ‘isn’t bad’ and just barely worth a half a day’s visit when we’re there for three weeks.
 
Here's some unavailable numbers that I would love to see... Number of single day tickets bought per year by park. I think that would tell some sort of story about AK's stand alone attendance. I think the "piggyback" factor would really be revealed.
 

I personally think that each park feeds off the others to a certain extent; they all also profit from the mere presence of the other three.

Think about it - when you go buy a car you're given a brochure boasting all of the car's good points. I don't know about you but to be honest I couldn't give a damn about half of them - what do I care if every wheel is individually pressureised using pine scented noble gasses? All I care about is the presence of an engine, seats and a stearing wheel. But I would NEVER consider even LOOKING at a car that didn't come with an impressive looking, 50 page long brochure...

Point is, although we're all different and may care less for one park than another, the park we care little for will still influence us into coming more than we think. Unless you positively hate animals, Animal Kingdom is likely to act as a positive in deciding whether to go or not to WDW at all.



Rich::
 
Originally posted by DVC-Landbaron
And I still contend that you have to level the playing field somehow, or give quite an edge to AK just because it shares the same zip code as the Magic Kingdom and EPCOT! I really don’t understand how you can’t see that.
Oh come on ... we do see that. We're not as stupid as we look ... really. But YOU can't dispute that the park is heavily attended. If it flat-out sucked, as many people seem to think it does, then it's zip code would be irrelevant. People wouldn't go, and people wouldn't come back. Of course the numbers wouldn't be the same if it was across the street from Universal. But Universal's attendance wouldn't be nearly as high without IOA next door either. And, if we want to further THAT discussion, do you think Universal and IOA would have the attendance figures they do if WDW wasn't right down the road?

The contention here was that DAK was a ghost town. Someone went to the park in Novebmer 2002 and decided that because it wasn't crowded that day, it absolutely positively never is. The numbers I posted were meant to dispute and disprove that claim. I never said that the numbers, and the numbers alone, proved that DAK was the best darn park ever built. They were simply meant to prove that DAK was, in fact, one of the top five most attended parks in North America. Whether it's well-attended because it's next door to the other most attended parks in the world was irrelevant to that discussion.

:earsboy:
 
Based on the available financial data of the theme parks & resorts segment of the WDW company, AK was successful in increasing operating income pre-9/11. Had AK fallen short of attendance expectations, this would not have been possible. After 9/11 there are too many variables in the financial data for it to be useful in making assumptions about AK, but that doesn't do anything to reduce the validity of the pre-9/11 information. I think that fact-based assumptions derived from the company's financial numbers hold more weight than individuals' conjectures based on limited personal experience.

On another note, on my last trip I was told by two seperate CM's that AK was at capacity for 3 days during Spring Break. I know MK hit capacity 5 days during that time, but does anyone know of any other Orlando area parks that were actually turning guests away?

-Josh
 
Hey... how did this become my thread ?
Phoebesaturn was the first to threw [sic] AK into the mix.
You were the first one to speak solely on Animal Kingdom, so you win the Quewpie Doll!

Seriously, I can split threads, but not comments within threads (without a LOT of work). Sorry you got stuck, Vike.

Sarangel
 
The contention here was that DAK was a ghost town.
That was already retracted. It was hyperbole.

AK was successful in increasing operating income pre-9/11. Had AK fallen short of attendance expectations, this would not have been possible.
That's just not true.

A park, or any other business venture, can fall short of expectations and still make a profit. It just doesn't make the profit that was expected. (Unless costs are cut more than planned...)

First, for locals/regular weekenders/Florida residents it is not uncommon for them to own both Universal and Disney annual/seasonal passes. Combine that with the very inexpensive SeaWorld local/Florida resident deals and it all comes down to choice...do we use our pass to go to IOA today or DAK today...it does not cost them anything extra.

Sorry, Scoop. Must have missed the reports that told of the throngs who have annual passes to both Universal and WDW. Please re-post.


As for the more traditional vacationeer, the average WDW vacation I'm told is now between 5 and 6 days. Guests often buy 5 day park hoppers (very popular with 3d party package deals)...that means that they are choosing on their own to spend those extra hundred bucks anyways. They are just choosing to do it at a Disney park rather than a Univeral or Busch park.
???
IF your numbers are correct, this is exactly what the Head was saying. You take a 5 or 6 day vacation, you naturally buy a ticket package encompassing your stay.

Certainly much more simple than buying a shorter hopper (at a higher price per day), then looking for individual tickets for Universal.


These guests could easily downgrade to a 4 day or even 3 day park hopper (yes, not available at the gate or on the website but still available). If they downgraded to the 4 day park hopper, they'd come close to saving enough to do a day at Universal or a Busch park at break even.
Close, but still at an extra cost. And that's not including the time and effort to make the off-properaty trip, never mind the cost of transporatation.


Listen folks, I agree that DCA is getting lousy attendance, but DAK's attendance is strong and WDW is plenty pleased with it.

If they are, they are delusional.

They maybe pleased based on lowered expecatations after the first few years of disappointment, but that's hardly anything to brag about.

DAK was never expected to compete with the Magic Kingdom in terms of attendance.
That's a more strategic problem.

Again, that doesn't mean its a sterling hit, but its nothing more than speculation to suggest that its high attendance figures are the result of being at Disney.
Its also nothing more than speculation to suggest that its "high" attendance figures are not the result of being at Disney.

ANY reason for its attendance, whether you call it high or disappointing, is speculation.

There's just quite a bit of compelling evidence to suggest it gets a significant bump.

No, the reality is that pretty soon DAK is likely to become the second most profitable at WDW from what I hear.
Intresting speculation...

if it was really as much of a leech as some speculate...you'd expect that four or fifth day of the park hopper to be spent at one of the three other parks or at a competitor park with a downgraded park hopper.
Yes you would, for the three other parks. And the attendance figures support that happening at the other three parks.

We've already been through why that is too simplistic an assumption for the "competitor" parks.
 
I think the "piggyback" factor would really be revealed.

The 'piggyback factor'? is a Null issue - see below.

Ok doke here's the scenario - you are a Baronial family from the wild's of 'Central' America. You are given a choice - purchase an (N) day pass or an (N-1) day pass on your visit to WDW - You choose (N-1) of course because you think AK is less valuable than being Vice President and you simply aren't going to waste a day on it.

It is considered a waste of time and of a ticket!

So there we have an interesting point that no one seems to mention - just because a multi-day pass includes the POTENTIAL of a visit to AK, it doesn't GUARANTEE a visit to AK.

Anyone that has visited AK will decide whether they want to visit it again - whether or not they have a multi-day pass in their hot little hands or not.

Ok, wait a minute then - what about the people that don't know that they aren't going to find value in using part of their multi-day pass to visit AK - ie AK First Timers?

AK has been open for 6 years now and lots of folks have visited it so my personal opinion is that the number of people visiting AK without any 'previous information' (they haven't seen it themselves, their neighbors didn't see it, etc) is probably quite small. Let's pick a BIG number - 25% or 1 in 4 people.

So let's subtract what? 15%? from the AK attendance numbers (some of the 25% will actually like AK - as hard as it is for some folks to understand). That still puts AK attendance at something like 6.4 million - still ahead of IoA and way ahead of Seaworld.

Animal Kingdom may not have been executed the way it should have been (Asia there at the start and Beastly Kingdom within 3 years), but to ignore it's success and pronounce it a failure it WAY off the mark.
 
IF your numbers are correct, this is exactly what the Head was saying. You take a 5 or 6 day vacation, you naturally buy a ticket package encompassing your stay.

Certainly much more simple than buying a shorter hopper (at a higher price per day), then looking for individual tickets for Universal.

I'm not sure it's so natural to buy something you don't want - no one is being forced to visit AK.

A Disney 5 Day Hopper is $265 and a 3 Day 3 park pass is $165 (the difference between a 3 day and 5 day UMP is ~$110). A Universal 2 Day 2 Park pass is $108 at the gate (I paid $83 for a three day pass at my local Sam's Club) so the price difference is at most $8, and might actually be cheaper depending on how/where you buy - also as a note - the convenience of buying the pass locally was unbeatable.
 
Oh - if AK is a Ghost Town...

Which of the 4 WDW Theme Parks had to close their gates to further visitors one day earlier this year because they were at capacity?
 
I'm not sure it's so natural to buy something you don't want - no one is being forced to visit AK.

No, which is why some don't. The point is, however, many do because its simply the path of least resisitance.

so the price difference is at most $8, and might actually be cheaper depending on how/where you buy - also as a note - the convenience of buying the pass locally was unbeatable.

That's assuming somebody would want to give up 2 days of their 5 or 6 day WDW vacation to go off-site. Sure, some will, but many, especially the less "Disney-astute" majority are going to ask themselves why are they paying all this money to stay on-site at WDW just to rent a car and drive off for two days.

The $8 also doesn't include increased transportation costs. And no matter how convenient it is to purchase that 2 day Universal pass locally, it's still an extra step above and beyond.
 
Methinks people will visit Animal Kingdom if they want to?

Just as a point of interest, if five million people visit Magic Kingdom and come out happy but three million people visit Animal Kingdom and come out REALLY happy, each park having had ten million people that day, the remainder of which had all come out satisfied, which park would you judge to be the greater triumph?



Rich::
 
Originally posted by dcentity2000
Methinks people will visit Animal Kingdom if they want to?

Just as a point of interest, if five million people visit Magic Kingdom and come out happy but three million people visit Animal Kingdom and come out REALLY happy, each park having had ten million people that day, the remainder of which had all come out satisfied, which park would you judge to be the greater triumph?



Rich::
Huh? :confused:
 












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