Ahsoka

[BrianL]

And that’s where the problem lies. I completely understand and acknowledge most casual fans aren’t interested in watching the animated shows because they think they’re aimed more at kids (when it actuality there’s some pretty dark stuff that’s clearly aimed more towards adults in both of those shows) or they simply don’t have the time to catch up on x amount of shows with multiple seasons but this show is a continuation of those storylines and that’s where some of the confusion about certain characters and plot points etc is coming from.

This show was originally meant to be an animated sequel to Rebels and was announced as much at Star Wars Celebration a few years back until it suddenly changed direction and became a live action show instead. But I get it. Ahsoka and the Ghost Crew are Dave’s babies and he obviously wanted to see them come to life in a different medium and see where he could take their stories from there.

ALL Star Wars is aimed at kids really - it's just kids of any age!

 

[BrianL]

MMA fights are organized in weight classes, you are reaching. You are also ignoring biological fact, as a “college level professor”. Is there a woman here or there that is an elite fighter that can compete with a man in a fight, sure. However, it is disingenuous and frankly dangerous to tell young females they can engage in hand to hand combat with a male. Musculoskeletal structures are night and day different and I would think you as an AP instructor would know that. Once again biological facts don’t care about how you feel about a topic.

I don’t want my wife or daughter ever to be forced to trade punches with a male. Not because of misogyny, but because I love them dearly and they are precious to me.

Men and women are 100% equal, but drastically different creatures. To deny that is foolish.

You act like you've never watched action or fantasy movies before. No, it's not realistic, but it's also not a problem. It's fun to watch the 108 pound Batgirl beat up on some huge thugs with some sweet moves. The second you start watching these movies and worrying about things being realistic, you've really missed the point.

 

[leiaorgana]

Anyway just to add an air of positivity back to this thread, I’ve been looking forward to tonight’s episode all week and really hope it lives up to my expectations and that we get to see Ahsoka shine.

 

[Suger Mag]

MMA fights are organized in weight classes, you are reaching. You are also ignoring biological fact, as a “college level professor”. Is there a woman here or there that is an elite fighter that can compete with a man in a fight, sure. However, it is disingenuous and frankly dangerous to tell young females they can engage in hand to hand combat with a male. Musculoskeletal structures are night and day different and I would think you as an AP instructor would know that. Once again biological facts don’t care about how you feel about a topic.

I don’t want my wife or daughter ever to be forced to trade punches with a male. Not because of misogyny, but because I love them dearly and they are precious to me.

Men and women are 100% equal, but drastically different creatures. To deny that is foolish.

lol... night and day different musculoskeletal structures? Have you ever looked at muscle under a microscope? You think you can tell JUST by looking at a sample of tissue if they are male vs female? I am not talking any genetic analysis but simply looking at muscle cells or even whole muscle structure.

Not even a medical doc could tell the difference. What do you think the cells are shaped or composed different between ,males and females?... That males have different myosin and actin?

You need to take some biology classes... then maybe A&P, but first basic biology. Here is a hint... we have the same muscles and the same muscular structures. In a few instances, say for example the dartos muscle (wrinkles the scrotum skin)... still there in females under the labia.

Human Individuals can vary in the fiber content of their muscle (fast, intermediate, slow) which can affect performance.... but that is an individual thing more than gender... sprinter vs endurance runner for example. Any major differences in performance and metabolism between genders can be explained by size and body comp.

so yes in your example, an equally sized male vs an equally sized female, of similar training status etc.... would be a fair fight.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

There are obvious differences in bone density and muscle mass on average. Which directly correlate to physical strength, speed, and the ability to take a hit. Also men are bigger on average, if you can’t tell the difference in a male versus a female muscular and skeletal structure, I’m not sure I can help you much.

Fastest runner in the world, male or female?

Strongest weightlifter (Bench Press) in the world, male or female?

Strongest weightlifter (Squat) in the world, male or female?

Strongest weightlifter (Deadlift) in the world, male or female?

Hardest puncher in the world, male or female?

Hardest leg kick in the world, male or female?

Fastest marathon time in the world, male or female?

Fastest decathlon time in the world, male or female?

Fastest person to climb Mount Everest, male or female?

If we are exactly the same should be about 50% of those records held by both genders correct?

 

[leiaorgana]

As Yoda says in Empire “Size matters not” when using the Force.

 

[Suger Mag]

There are obvious differences in bone density and muscle mass on average. Which directly correlate to physical strength, speed, and the ability to take a hit. Also men are bigger on average, if you can’t tell the difference in a male versus a females muscle and skeletal structure, I’m not sure I can help you much.

Faster runner in the world, male or female?

Strongest weightlifter (Bench Press) in the world, male or female?

Strongest weightlifter (Squat) in the world, male or female?

Strongest weightlifter (Deadlift) in the world, male or female?

Hardest puncher in the world, male or female?

Hardest leg kick in the world, male or female?

Fastest marathon time in the world, male or female?

Fastest decathlon time in the world, male or female?

Fastest person to climb Mount Everest, male or female?

Is we are exactly the same should be about 50% of those records held by both genders correct?

You your example was about a fight where two individuals were the same size and the only difference was gender.

"If I put you in an octagon with a male mma fighter your exact weight, who is the odds on favorite to win the fight? Is that misogyny?"

I repeat, and this is not just MY belief, but also shared by many sports experts. Any major differences in performance and metabolism between genders can be explained by size and body comp. If those two things are the same, then there is no difference.

Newsflash, there are women who are bigger than average men... and men who are bigger than average women.

 

[BrianL]

You your example was about a fight where two individuals were the same size and the only difference was gender.

"If I put you in an octagon with a male mma fighter your exact weight, who is the odds on favorite to win the fight? Is that misogyny?"

I repeat, and this is not just MY belief, but also shared by many sports experts. Any major differences in performance and metabolism between genders can be explained by size and body comp. If those two things are the same, then there is no difference.

Newsflash, there are women who are bigger than average men... and men who are bigger than average women.

Yes, exactly. While it's true that men do tend to more easily build muscle and have a higher ceiling for speed and strength, that is not across the board. If a woman is the exact same weight muscle-wise, then she should have comparable abilities to a man of of that weight. Yes at an elite level, the fastest male runner is faster than the fastest female, but there are still many females out there who can outrun the vast majority of males - and plenty who could absolutely kick MY butt, regardless of weight!

Sure, it is unrealistic when the 98 pound woman beats up the 240 pound thug, but it would be the same if it were a 98 pound man. There is a reason why sports like boxing have weight classes. Even a small difference in weight means a significant power difference. Usually the smaller person would get clobbered. But, you know, when you know super-Batman-style-kung-fu, Jedi training and The Force, Vulcan nerve pinches, and all that stuff, then it doesn't matter!

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Ok, then why don’t you see women fighting in the men’s weight class in mma? You are in denial. An equally ranked male mma fighter would submit a female fighter of the same size in minutes. Your narrative will get people hurt.

A few years back the 203rd ranked male tennis player whipped the Williams sisters in back to back sets. Here’s a news flash, he was around their same exact size. He beat them 6-1 and 6-2 in case you are wondering.

Sunny Edwards is the current flyweight boxing champ in the 115 lb weight class. How would the worlds best 115 female boxer fare vs Sunny?

Our US World Cup women’s soccer team was recently beaten 5-2 by a 15 and under boys team from Dallas Texas. Just in case you don’t know much about soccer 5-2 is getting demolished! The entire countries best women soccer players, vs a group of 14-15 year old boys in Dallas!

 

[RedHead0186]

Ok, then why don’t you see woman fighting in the men’s weight class in mma? You are in denial. An equally ranked male mma fighter would submit a female fighter of the same size in minutes. Your narrative will get people hurt.

A few years back the 203rd ranked male tennis player whipped the Williams sisters in back to back sets. Here’s a news flash, he was around their same exact size. He beat them 6-1 and 6-2 in case you are wondering.

Sunny Edwards is the current flyweight boxing champ in the 115 lb weight class. How would the worlds best 115 female boxer fare vs Sunny?

Our US World Cup women’s soccer team was recently beaten 5-2 by a 15 and under boys team from Dallas Texas. Just in case you don’t know much about soccer 5-2 is getting demolished! The entire countries best women soccer players, vs a group of 14-15 year old boys in Dallas!

Because size/height/weight is not the only determination in someone's athletic ability. Soccer requires much more than strength to be good at it. Same thing with tennis. You can't make your point with those two examples because there are other variables that could explain why the males beat out the females.

 

[BrianL]

Because size/height/weight is not the only determination in someone's athletic ability. Soccer requires much more than strength to be good at it. Same thing with tennis. You can't make your point with those two examples because there are other variables that could explain why the males beat out the females.

Exactly. Weight matters a lot in combat sports becuase it directly relates to the force behind a strike. If a woman has the same muscle mass as a man though, they should have the same power behind a strike. It is harder though for a woman to build the kind of muscle mass that male fighters have at an elite level, so the discourse is purely academic. There is always the skill and strategy factor too.

Nobody is saying it's realistic. It's not supposed to be. This is STAR WARS for crying out loud. Movies like that alwyas have smaller people beating up on larger ones. Even Batman isn't like the biggest dude, but he whips Bane and other big guys all the time. Another common trope is that those really big guys are slow. Yeah, in a video game maybe, but in reality, that muscle mass equates to speed, and that punch is coming that much faster. They might not win an endurance race, but the pure speed is there. Sprinters are actually quite built, but they exhaust themselves faster. Movies don't show this though - the little guys (and gals) always move faster so they can have some kind of advantage.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

You your example was about a fight where two individuals were the same size and the only difference was gender.

"If I put you in an octagon with a male mma fighter your exact weight, who is the odds on favorite to win the fight? Is that misogyny?"

I repeat, and this is not just MY belief, but also shared by many sports experts. Any major differences in performance and metabolism between genders can be explained by size and body comp. If those two things are the same, then there is no difference.

Newsflash, there are women who are bigger than average men... and men who are bigger than average women.

You keep searching for an exception to the rule or the one in a million woman who is elite. I don’t doubt that there is an elite female athlete that can out run me a middle aged engineer. However, on average that’s not the case. Also you are correct that there are some really large women and some really small men, but on statistical averages that is simply not the case.

The average woman in America is 5’4” and 163 lbs

The average man in America is 5’9” and 199 lbs

The average man in america is significantly bigger and stronger than the average woman in America. That’s not my opinion, that is fact.

The “healthy” body fat % for males is 8-19%, and for females is 21-32%. So in most cases of the exact same height and weight the male will still have significantly more muscle mass. For a woman to have the same muscle mass as an average male would take many years of intense training and likely testosterone treatment as well.

Once again men and women are 100% equal, but drastically different.

 

[Suger Mag]

These are fictional aliens, who says they have the same body composition?

Excellent point. Spock had two hearts I believe as a Vulcan.

Even on our own little planet, you can see some extreme sexual dimorphism in some species and massive differences in size. Angler fish come to mind... the tiny male latches onto the side of the much larger female and then becomes her parasitic sperm donor for the rest of his life, losing his eyes and the ability to live on his own. Hard to find a mate in the deep dark ocean.

https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/bizarre-love-life-of-the-anglerfish.html#:~:text=Males in the suborder Ceratioidei,the ability to attract prey.

Humans, not so much.

 

[Suger Mag]

You keep searching for an exception to the rule or the one in a million woman who is elite. I don’t doubt that there is an elite female athlete that can out run me a middle aged engineer. However, on average that’s not the case. Also you are correct that there are some really large women and some really small men, but on statistical averages that is simply not the case.

The average woman in America is 5’4” and 163 lbs

The average man in America is 5’9” and 199 lbs

The average man in america is significantly bigger and stronger than the average woman in America. That’s not my opinion, that is fact.

The “healthy” body fat % for males is 8-19%, and for females is 21-32%. So in most cases of the exact same height and weight the male will still have significantly more muscle mass. For a woman to have the same muscle mass as an average male would take many years of intense training and likely testosterone treatment as well.

Once again men and women are 100% equal, but drastically different.

I am not searching for any exceptions, you are the one searching. I repeat, for the third time now...

Any major differences in performance and metabolism between genders (in humans) can be explained by size and body comp. If those two things are the same, then there is no difference.

But we are not talking Earth humans, we are talking aliens in a fantasy show, and no one knows what their physiology is like.

BTW... you definitely should never watch Clone Wars ... the Nightsisters will really mess with you.

 

[Suger Mag]

Sigh.... only 4.5 hours to go. Enjoy Tano Tuesday folks if you are watching tonight.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

I will also repeat for the 3rd time put two highly trained 140 lb mma fighters in an octagon one male and one female and I will show you a fight that won’t last long and the guy will overwhelmingly dominate the fight. This is not my opinion.

Once again your narrative will get people hurt.

Your point about having the same height and weight is possible, but same muscle mass exactly is pretty hard to accomplish. It will take a smaller than average male and an above average female though. For a woman to get the muscle mass of a highly trained male of the same weight would likely take intense training and tons of PEDs as well.

 

[Suger Mag]

I will also repeat for the 3rd time put two highly trained 140 lb mma fighters in an octagon one male and one female and I will show you a fight that won’t last long and the guy will overwhelmingly dominate the fight. This is not my opinion.

Once again your narrative will get people hurt.

Your point another the same height and weight is possible, but same muscle mass exactly is pretty hard to accomplish. It will take a smaller than average male and an above average female though. For a woman to get the muscle mass of a highly trained male of the same weight would likely take intense training and tons of PEDs as well.

you keep applying a one size rule to everyone. To get to an elite status takes intense training no matter what gender you are. Also a few favorable SNPs doesn't hurt.


Narrative, LOL.

 

[BrianL]

I will also repeat for the 3rd time put two highly trained 140 lb mma fighters in an octagon one male and one female and I will show you a fight that won’t last long and the guy will overwhelmingly dominate the fight. This is not my opinion.

Once again your narrative will get people hurt.

Your point another the same height and weight is possible, but same muscle mass exactly is pretty hard to accomplish. It will take a smaller than average male and an above average female though. For a woman to get the muscle mass of a highly trained male of the same weight would likely take intense training and tons of PEDs as well.

Everyone understands that it is difficult and unlikely to have a male and female fighter with the same muscle mass - it's just not impossible. It's not going to "get people hurt" because nobody is going to run out and start fighting because of it!

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

No, but this narrative in modern society will
convince a teenage girl somewhere she is capable of holding her own in a street fight with a dude. This is dangerous, plain and simply. I have been very clear with my daughter, knee him in the crotch and run like the wind.

 

[BrianL]

No, but this narrative in modern society will
convince a teenage girl somewhere she is capable of holding her own in a street fight with a dude. This is dangerous, plain and simply. I have been very clear with my daughter, knee him in the crotch and run like the wind.

You mean the "narrative" that action heroes can fight and win against guys that are twice their size? Yeah, that one's been around for like 60 years or so and I don't think it's gotten anyone killed yet. You may as well be calling out movies for people waking up from being knocked out and being perfectly fine or gas tanks the explode when you shoot them. It's all fantasy, man, and everyone knows that.