agree to disagree? gray areas everywhere

[lonegirl]

I hope this is not too "apples to oranges" thinking, but here goes.

Serving jury duty is a civic responsibility. No one argues that. But IF the court offers an excuse (primary caretaker of elderly or child under ten, EMS, firefighter, student, etc) and IF your excuse is granted who is going to say no to that?

IF you were speeding and got pulled over, it is your responsibility to pay the ticket, take defensive driving, etc. But IF you were granted a warning that day, who is going to say no to that?

Not to say you'll never get pulled over again, or never get a speeding ticket, or never serve jury duty. But sometimes temporary reprieves are granted and we graciously accept.

 

[Mkrop]

What a bunch of holier than thou people on this thread....lot of assumptions out there!


Not every state has the same jury duty requirements, some of you have one day, some have more than that, some get week's notice, some have to call in every night. It is much easier to get one day's coverage for kids than it is if you actually get picked for a jury. PA let me fill in the request and I was excused bc I had younger children at home. I was not given a deferrment, I was excused.

You can not compare the world apples to apples. Sure I might find a sitter that can stay until 5, then what if court runs over. Same for the working mom whose daycare closes at 6. Not everyone has adequate childcare in their area. Once again if you do count yourself blessed. I have many people who could help me out for a day or a couple hours but IF I actually got picked would have been a huge problem.

And vacation is an ok excuse over caring for kids, WOW!

And many employers are not family friendly or jury duty friendly to a spouse. If you or your spouse work for a company like that, consider yourself lucky. Dont assume everyone's company is like yours. Personally I would be annoyed if my surgeon took the day off so his wife could serve jury duty.

Until the courts understand this, they will have people trying to get out of it.

And I personally think that until the courts find a better way to call people fairly then they should realize that people are going to try and get out of it.

DH has never been called, I have been called twice, both times I got excused as SAHM to young children. There needs to be a more fair and equitable way for being called.

And for the poster who would not sign up for the courthouse in a "bad neighborhood" but then cricitizes others for not serving, that is quite hypocritical. All people are entitled to a jury of their peers, not just the ones in "good" neighborhoods.

Also the poster who says your lifestyle choice doesnt excuse you from jury duty, sure it does, convicted felons, lawyers, the business owner with only two employees, the SAHM casring for 5 kids under 10, the person caring for the parent with dementia. They are all lifestyle chocies, that may or may not get you excused. each one could have chose differently, they didnt, they should not be penalized or judged by anyone else.

 

[Sandi]

What about the defendant who is a SAHM with young children, one of whom has a disability. Where are her peers on the jury? Just saying . . .

I am a transactional lawyer who has served on juries in the past. Without jurors, the system does not work.

 

[Mkrop]

What about the defendant who is a SAHM with young children, one of whom has a disability. Where are her peers on the jury? Just saying . . .

I am a transactional lawyer who has served on juries in the past. Without jurors, the system does not work.

Is the jury for the young boy only filled with young men like himself -NO

Is the jury for the corrupt businessman only filled with other middle aged businessmen-NO

Is the malpractice suit only filled with doctors and nurses-NO

It isnt nor will it ever be a complete jury of ones peers.

If they actuall called everyone who was registered to vote or through DMV records like they are suppose to then they would be more likely to get a better selection.

 

[ccgirl]

Is the jury for the young boy only filled with young men like himself -NO

Is the jury for the corrupt businessman only filled with other middle aged businessmen-NO

Is the malpractice suit only filled with doctors and nurses-NO

It isnt nor will it ever be a complete jury of ones peers.

If they actuall called everyone who was registered to vote or through DMV records like they are suppose to then they would be more likely to get a better selection.

I believe it is done by lottery to try to make it more fair. Looks like you were just lucky enough to be called twice. So sorry, your DH works for such a rigid company and wasn't allowed to help you. I do consider myself lucky that I work for a company that puts the family first. But, then again, I turned down job offers with a lot more money so I can have that. I know not everyone has that choice. I'm just feeling lucky today I guess.

 

[jodifla]

What a bunch of holier than thou people on this thread....lot of assumptions out there!


Not every state has the same jury duty requirements, some of you have one day, some have more than that, some get week's notice, some have to call in every night. It is much easier to get one day's coverage for kids than it is if you actually get picked for a jury. PA let me fill in the request and I was excused bc I had younger children at home. I was not given a deferrment, I was excused.

You can not compare the world apples to apples. Sure I might find a sitter that can stay until 5, then what if court runs over. Same for the working mom whose daycare closes at 6. Not everyone has adequate childcare in their area. Once again if you do count yourself blessed. I have many people who could help me out for a day or a couple hours but IF I actually got picked would have been a huge problem.

And vacation is an ok excuse over caring for kids, WOW!

And many employers are not family friendly or jury duty friendly to a spouse. If you or your spouse work for a company like that, consider yourself lucky. Dont assume everyone's company is like yours. Personally I would be annoyed if my surgeon took the day off so his wife could serve jury duty.

Until the courts understand this, they will have people trying to get out of it.

And I personally think that until the courts find a better way to call people fairly then they should realize that people are going to try and get out of it.

DH has never been called, I have been called twice, both times I got excused as SAHM to young children. There needs to be a more fair and equitable way for being called.

And for the poster who would not sign up for the courthouse in a "bad neighborhood" but then cricitizes others for not serving, that is quite hypocritical. All people are entitled to a jury of their peers, not just the ones in "good" neighborhoods.

Also the poster who says your lifestyle choice doesnt excuse you from jury duty, sure it does, convicted felons, lawyers, the business owner with only two employees, the SAHM casring for 5 kids under 10, the person caring for the parent with dementia. They are all lifestyle chocies, that may or may not get you excused. each one could have chose differently, they didnt, they should not be penalized or judged by anyone else.

So this thread a good wake-up call for all of us who have young kids in our care. We should be familiar with our state's requirements, what exemptions there are, and be thinking of possible arrangements in case we are ever called.

I certainly don't begrudge anyone who takes advantage of the court's acceptable reasons for postponement or exemption. But it's important to note that the judges are in charge, and plan accordinginly.

 

[Mkrop]

I believe it is done by lottery to try to make it more fair. Looks like you were just lucky enough to be called twice. So sorry, your DH works for such a rigid company and wasn't allowed to help you. I do consider myself lucky that I work for a company that puts the family first. But, then again, I turned down job offers with a lot more money so I can have that. I know not everyone has that choice. I'm just feeling lucky today I guess.

Then you are very fortunate. Be glad that you had many job offers to turn down, many people dont have that

The two companies I worked for prior to becoming a SAHM would not have been too keen on me taking off for my spouse to serve jury duty. For me it would have been prefectly fine, I never got called during that time. I quit my job at the second company because they were not family friendly at all yet claimed that they were. I was reprimanded for staying home with my sick child, when my mom(babysitter) was sick, my DH was in another state, and my normal backup plan had just gotten out of back surgery the day before.

My DH travels a lot for his companies. It would be very hard for him to cancel appointments the night before IF I got called in, like some people have for their jury duty. The clients, nor his boss are not going to care about me, unless it is a medical emergency. They want him meeting clients or the company loses money. Once again if he got called, they allow this and pay him. And once again if I got picked for a trial, not him, his employer would not be happy for him to take a week or more time off for ME to serve.

And like I said before would you be happy to hear that your doctor stayed home to be with his/her kids so a SPOUSE could serve or would you be annoyed that your appointment was cancelled.

My point has been that not eveything is black and white. You work for a great company, some dont. Some live in areas with great drop in programs, some dont. Some have family and friends who can help out, others do not. I just dont feel it is fair to judge.

 

[Mkrop]

So this thread a good wake-up call for all of us who have young kids in our care. We should be familiar with our state's requirements, what exemptions there are, and be thinking of possible arrangements in case we are ever called.

I certainly don't begrudge anyone who takes advantage of the court's acceptable reasons for postponement or exemption. But it's important to note that the judges are in charge, and plan accordinginly.

I truly wonder if they OP was caring for a aging parent with dementia if yours and others advice would be the same. For some reason I think she would garnish more sympathy.

It is a wake up call but if the resources are not there, they are not there. You cant make there be an opening in child care centers if they dont exist. You cant make family available if they are not etc.

 

[Shleedogg]

So you leave your young children with people you've never met? As my signature says, I wouldn't even to that with my dog. He is a snowflake.

. We go out of our way to make sure our cats are cared for by people we trust when we go on vacation, I wouldn't just call a random pet sitter I find online or in the phonebook. I could NEVER EVER leave my child with random, unknown people for an entire day. I've read threads on other message boards of outraged parents whose children have gotten abused at a daycare/babysitter that they interviewed and knew. There are some scary people out there, why would anyone think it's ok to leave your child with just anyone. Ok, sure I'll call someone out of an online directory. First person with space is where I'll send my daughter. Are you all crazy or do you just not have kids?

It's not about the money, at least for me. It's about having a safe place for my child to go. Again, I'm lucky in that I have options, DH's flexible job, SIL who runs an in-home daycare, ILs that are retired (although they travel a lot). If those backups fell through, DH was on a business trip, there is no way I would just leave my daughter at a drop in daycare or with some random babysitter from a list. I would ask for a postponement. I actually look forward to getting called for jury duty, I'm 27 and have lived in this city for my entire life and have never gotten called. But if it came down to my duty to my country vs my duty to the health and safety of my child, child wins, hands down.

 

[melancholywings]

I bolded.
I disagree. My parents did not find childcare. On the extremely rare occassion that we needed to be taken care of we had a relative keep an eye on us. They had no other backup etc.

You proved my point. Even though it was a rare occassion they still had to find child care. It's something that every parent deals with. It sucks. But it's part of raising children.

Yes, my kids do go to public school now. I guess I was not clear that I was referring to private sitters since the 6 daycare centers in my area do not take drop-ins. The difference is that in school the kids are in a controlled environment where there are other children and adults around. That is extremely different than hiring a person I don't know to come into my home to watch my children or dropping my children off at a sitters home. Interviewing, background checks, or even doing trial runs while you are around do not give you any indication of what goes on when you are not around.

Schools are not exempt from weirdos and pedos. They still get in. You can't stop trusting all people because of one bad person. I mean people drive drunk all the time and kill other people. But that doesn't stop you from getting on the road with your kids. There have been reports of pedos at DisneyWorld - yet we all still go. Sometimes horrible things happen to people we love, no matter how much you prepare or how careful you are. All you can do is do the best you can.

Believe me, it was extremely hard confronting my neighbors when I saw their son being treated poorly by their nanny. The entire neighborhood saw, heard, and knew what was going on, but no one said a word to them.

I'm sorry that happened to their son. Did the parents press charges? I seriously hope they did.

I would have had big problems finding someone to care for 3 preschool aged kids. Finding someone to watch ONE child would have been a challenge at the time since I had no family or friends in the area, but to find someone that I trusted to take 3 would have been almost impossible.

You never know until you try. And many of the posts on here don't even seem to want to try. Unless a free babysitter who has the background of Jesus shows up to watch their kids - they don't think they should have to serve or even make the effort to see if there are any childcare options. And that someone else should have to take on their burden.
What if they were one of several witnesses to a horrible crime - would they take the time to stand up in court and testify then? Or should being a SAHM exclude them from that as well.

What works for you doesn't work for me. If you don't care who is watching your kids it only becomes my problem when they turn up in my office having been assaulted.

Are you suggesting that people who use child care services don't care about their kids? That all us working parents, day care users, sitter hirers don't love our children as much as you love yours? I haven't seen a single person on here say...'All you pedo's come watch my babies'. Maybe I missed it?

Having workEd in this county for 25 years I know every scumball out there. Their wives and their children have been my clients.

I am really blessed to live in a smallish town.

You live in a small town and know every scumball out there? I think one of my neighbors is a scumball...maybe you know him?

 

[badblackpug]

As others have said, the truth of the matter is that jury duty is inconvenient for a lot of people, whether they stay at home or not. Just because someone works does not mean they have child care. I work nights so that my 11m old doesn't have to go to child care. If I am called, not only do I lose salary, I also have to pay for child care. A double whammy.

I will be honest, and you may flame away, I do not like jury duty, and I truly don't care if I am never called. It is a huge inconvenience. That being said, I have reported both times I have been called. It is my responsibility. The last time (last year) was for petit jury. The way it works in my county is this. You call after 5 pm the night before to see if you have to report the next day. Now, I work 7pm-7am. If I call at 5pm and I am told I have to report the next morning I will have been up all night working, then have to report in the morning, as 5pm is too late to call off from my job. In addition, I have to have a sitter for my baby during the day, and someone to pick my 2y old up from preschool. So obviously working people are disrupted, too and have to make last minute arrangements. For everyone's education, there is (at least in my state) no exemption for medical personnel, nurses, doctors, paramedics, or EMTs.

On an off topic note, the last time my father was called, before he passed away, he was retired. He drove to the courthouse in the snow, walked the several blocks from the parking lot and reported. He sat all day waiting, had to walk several blocks back and forth in the snow to get lunch (he was 71) and when he was finally called in he told the judge as he was retired he would be happy to serve, but since he was hearing impaired he would need a translator so that he didn't miss any important details. He read lips, but it is difficult to do when people are moving around or not making an effort to maintain eye contact. Rather then pay an interpreter, they dismissed him.

 

[Michelle and crew]

Hmmm... isn't "I have no options at all for childcare" an example of black and white thinking? Look for the grey!

yep. i've said all along that it is smart to have a backup. Several times. I just get not having them. New to the area, women with little ones are often isolated (not a postive, but a reality), women caring for their elderly parents, etc. Or there is a strong chance that there are not back ups for the back ups, and stuff happens.

As I have also said, life is far more grey than black or white.

 

[Jitzy]

OP said she would know by Monday. So, I was just wondering what happened?

 

[bartleby1]

Schools are not exempt from weirdos and pedos. They still get in. You can't stop trusting all people because of one bad person. I mean people drive drunk all the time and kill other people. But that doesn't stop you from getting on the road with your kids. There have been reports of pedos at DisneyWorld - yet we all still go. Sometimes horrible things happen to people we love, no matter how much you prepare or how careful you are. All you can do is do the best you can.



I'm sorry that happened to their son. Did the parents press charges? I seriously hope they did.



You never know until you try. And many of the posts on here don't even seem to want to try. Unless a free babysitter who has the background of Jesus shows up to watch their kids - they don't think they should have to serve or even make the effort to see if there are any childcare options. And that someone else should have to take on their burden.
What if they were one of several witnesses to a horrible crime - would they take the time to stand up in court and testify then? Or should being a SAHM exclude them from that as well.




Are you suggesting that people who use child care services don't care about their kids? That all us working parents, day care users, sitter hirers don't love our children as much as you love yours? I haven't seen a single person on here say...'All you pedo's come watch my babies'. Maybe I missed it?

You are right. Schools are not exempt from weirdos or pedos. However, I do think that in a group setting with many more eyes watching, bad things are less likely to happen than in a situation where it is one adult left alone with a child. And yes, things can happen anywhere which is why we all need to be so careful and do our best to reduce the chances. Pedos can and do go to places like disneyworld. I don't not go because of this, but I wouldn't leave my young kids unattended there either. Idiot drivers/drunk drivers do exist. I don't stop driving because of it but I do make sure we are all buckled up and the kids are in appropriate car seats to reduce the chances of injury and ensure their safety to the best of my ability. You stated that all we can do is do our best. I absolutely agree with that. However, I don't consider it "my best" to leave my children with a sitter or nanny I pulled off the internet, out of the newspaper, or from a random agency. I would consider a daycare center that I was able to check out where there are multiple adults present and I knew someone who could recommend it. That is how I chose a preschool for my kids when they were younger. Of course there are no guarantees, but I knew I did my best to put my kids in a safe environment. Unfortunately, the daycare centers around here do not take random drop-ins. I wish the preschool/daycare center where my kids went did. It would have come in quite handy and I would have definitely rather have paid to have them watch my kids when they were younger so I could go to the dentist or ob/gyn appointments without dragging 3 little ones with me. Believe me, SAHM's who drag kids to their ob/gyn appointments don't do so because they "can't be bothered checking out childcare options" as you stated. They do it because they have exhausted all other options. Many times, it isn't even a matter of cost. It is a matter of not having a safe place to put them.

As far as my neighbor pressing charges... unfortunately, no they did not. Thankfully, they did get rid of her (but only after giving her two weeks notice and paying her until the end of the month. ) After she left, they put their son in the preschool/daycare center that my kids had gone to.

 

[Michelle and crew]

well said, bartleby.

I am not a person that shelters my kids. They are now 16, 13 and 11, and have traveled out of the country on their own several times. But, there is a time and place for everything. When they are tiny, and don't have a voice, one needs to be more careful than when they are in a crowd of grade schoolers, etc. I would see that as common sense. But as I have seen here, some find it appropriate.

 

[Mkrop]

You never know until you try. And many of the posts on here don't even seem to want to try. Unless a free babysitter who has the background of Jesus shows up to watch their kids - they don't think they should have to serve or even make the effort to see if there are any childcare options. And that someone else should have to take on their burden.
What if they were one of several witnesses to a horrible crime - would they take the time to stand up in court and testify then? Or should being a SAHM exclude them from that as well.




Are you suggesting that people who use child care services don't care about their kids? That all us working parents, day care users, sitter hirers don't love our children as much as you love yours? I haven't seen a single person on here say...'All you pedo's come watch my babies'. Maybe I missed it?

What poster said that?

I am sure you worked very hard to find safe, appropriate daycare for your child.

I could do that same research and then line it up with either a center or a babysitter and that can fall through. Even if I called a Nanny Service and they sent Jane and Jane was great with the kids, come jury time can Jane do more than one day or is she now booked up with someone else?

What if I did the research in my area and found none of the places appropriate for my child, I should be forced to use it? We both know there are good childcare centers out there and lousy ones.

We do not have drop in locations here, I just googled it. But when I was pregnant and trying to decide what childcare options were best for my child, I looked at several daycares for my kids. Some of them I wouldnt have my child step foot in the place, they were gross. Some were wonderful but had waiting lists a mile long. I am not leaving my kids with just anyone, that would be irresponsible, more irresponsible than trying to be excused or deferred from jury duty IMHO.

 

[Michelle and crew]

I didn't see that post. I'm not against childcare and daycare at all! I apologize if I sounded that way. I am against randomly leaving kids with strangers. There are no guarantees, I know. I've known people I THOUGHT were good people who weren't. You just do the best you can, and hope that intuition or 'gut" is with you when you are interviewing, etc. Not to mention that some are just plain nasty dirty, etc.

 

[Leajess99]

What works for you doesn't work for me. If you don't care who is watching your kids it only becomes my problem when they turn up in my office having been assaulted. Call yourself a patriot all you like. Military gals are one of my prime concerns. They are the ones moving into town most often who have no connections. We work hard to change that. Lol, but I'd never suggest to one if them that they leave their little ones with strangers, even govt. Sanctioned strangers either.

You, of course, feel free to do so. I just don't expect it of people. Thankfully, it isn't an option here. So the courts don't either.

I sure hope you homeschool your kids if you have any especially since they can be assaulted just as easily at school by any number of people to include other students. Yep, know all about that thanks to one victim being in my youngest DD's class and then the Sheriff Detective that I had as an instructor for my Juvenile Justice class sharing what had taken place at a middle school here. It just so happened to be the same middle school my child was in. These cases both involved students as the assaulter.

It amazes me that you think that someone leaving their children in a daycare is leaving them with a stranger. Oh, and most military installations that I have been on offer drop in daycare at the centers.

 

[VAfamily1998]

Oh, and most military installations that I have been on offer drop in daycare at the centers.

Not the one my husband is currently stationed at...the one we lived at previously did when we were first there, but discontinued it (I think around 2005?) Even then, you could only make reservations up to 2 weeks in advance, no earlier. Many, many times I would call and try to make a reservation, and they were already booked solid. I remember one time in particular when Dh was deployed, and I had something I needed to go to (can't remember exactly what!) I called at exactly the minute the center opened, exactly 2 weeks prior to the date I needed care---and they told me they were already booked!
There were only 2 drop in spaces for each "age range" and apparently if you regularly use the drop in care, you get priority. For example, if you book "drop in" care every mon. wed. fri--you can submit your request in writing and you get priority over the person that just needs it on "monday the 27th from 9am-11 am". So even though I called first, I was out of luck.

Even still, not all military spouses live close to a major base. Plenty of service members on recruiting duty, the AD staff at reserve units, etc. are far from bases with typical base services.

 

[Mkrop]

I sure hope you homeschool your kids if you have any especially since they can be assaulted just as easily at school by any number of people to include other students. Yep, know all about that thanks to one victim being in my youngest DD's class and then the Sheriff Detective that I had as an instructor for my Juvenile Justice class sharing what had taken place at a middle school here. It just so happened to be the same middle school my child was in. These cases both involved students as the assaulter.

It amazes me that you think that someone leaving their children in a daycare is leaving them with a stranger. Oh, and most military installations that I have been on offer drop in daycare at the centers.

I dont recall reading that anywhere.

If a person does not use a daycare center regularly then yes those people are strangers to you and your child. If a person uses a drop off care facility like people have suggested either a private one and or the suggestion of having a court designated one, those people are strangers to you and your child. If I call a nanny service and have never had that person come to your house before, then that person is a stranger.

Most military bases having drop off centers does not help the majority fo the civilian population.