agree to disagree? gray areas everywhere

[IDoDis]

Having been a plaintiff and seeing the vior dire from the inside, I found the process of jury selection fascinating. Our attorneys hired a jury consultant to help select the best jury. Here are some interesting things I learned:

1) There were 50 people on the jury panel. Each juror is assigned a number 1 - 50. If your number is above 25, it's less likely you'd be selected because they start with #1 and go down the list that way eliminating potential jurors in numerical order.

2) The jury consultant(s) and attorneys are able to pick up the juror list a day or two before the trial. Our trial started on a Monday. The consultant was able to pick the list up on Friday. She spent a good part of the weekend researching each juror and rating them on a scale of +3 (very good) to -3 (get rid of 'em). She rated them based on background checks, what their political party was, what kind of job they had, history with the courts, posts by them on message boards, my space, facebook, etc.. For example, she eliminate one person because of his myspace page that had a really weird photo of him in some kind of creepy costume. Another juror had an anti-semitic web page and our attorney was Jewish, so he was asked to be dismissed. I could go on and on.

4) Potential jurors are asked many questions by the attorneys before the attorneys from both sides start choosing. Each side gets to choose a juror or get rid of a juror on the list. They can each only get rid of 3 jurors when selecting a pool of 12 jurors unless both sides agree to dismiss a juror. If both sides agree to dismiss someone based on some fact about that juror, then that dismissal doesn't count towards the three jurors each side can eliminate.

5) Before final selection, potential jurors are allowed to come up to the judge and state privately why they cannot serve. If the reason is valid, the judge will dismiss them. For example if it's a DUI case and someone on the jury pool had a family member die as the result of a drunk driver and thought this would skew his/her ability to be fair and impartial, that juror would be dismissed if he/she asked.

Saying you are a SAHM will not get you dismissed. We had one juror try that and she actually was chosen to be on the panel and ended up being the the jury forwoman. If you want to get out of serving, just say you cannot be fair because you believe XXX. Or put up a creepy myspace page! You can also get your dates rescheduled once if you are not available for the dates given to you. That happened to my DH twice. Both times he was selected he was not able to serve, and therefore was given different dates 4 or 6 months later.

Our case took a week in court. We appreciated the jury's time and attention that week! Their service really helped justice be served.

 

[dogluva]

EXACTLY!!! I work at night and keep my DD at home during the day. I am also a per diem worker which means I have no benefits like paid time off, so when I don't work, I don't get paid, nor do I get paid for jury duty by my employer.

I got called for jury duty two months ago, and Shelby County, TN doesn't give a flip whether you are breastfeeding or not. The clerk said, 'Oh, you'll just have to pump, I guess.' I was a pumping mom, not that it was any of her business, but some moms don't. What do they do? After I took my colicky
child to the clerks office and let her scream while I asked for a release, they THEN told me I could pick a week in January to serve, and 'I had better make
some arrangements, because they wouldn't reschedule me again.'

Frankly, I don't care whether it's my civic duty or not at this point in time. I am exhausted, I'm trying my best to keep myself, my child, home, marriage, and career intact, and I could care less about sitting in a courtroom deciding whether Joe Q. Public stole that car or not.

I have been there, done that, six times and I am horrified by your attitude. You obviously have no respect for our justice system and for your sake, hope you never have to use it. Sorry, you live in this country with your FAMILY so it is your civic duty and you should care. I, too, am exhausted. I have six kids and when I was picked to serve on a jury, I dealt with it because it is important to me. My family, career, marriage and myself survived.

 

[merrily]

I confess I haven't read the entire thread, but I wanted to share an alternative. Just last week, I was assigned jury duty here in NH. I'm a SAHM with three small children and limited childcare options. I requested a waiver and was granted a one year extension. I will be called to jury duty again a year from now. I'm not sure my situation will be any different, but at least I'll have more time to make childcare arrangements. Just my 2 cents - no judgement, just sharing an alternative. hopefully, it might be helpful to someone in a similar situation.

I am also in NH. When I was called my husband was in Washington State for a 3 month work assignment. I was working part time and had limited childcare options. It was winter and there were several teacher workshop days at school and the potential for snow days was high. I requested an extension and was granted one for three years. I was called again in exactly three years. I never did get picked for a jury. I was actually a little bummed about that.

 

[karice2]

My $.2

All I read is how much of an inconvenience it is for a SAHM. Jury duty is inconvenient for everyone. It isn't like you get one day notice for JR. You get at least a couple of weeks. That is plenty of time to develop and vet some sort of short term child care plan.

I have seen people plan on this board how to do a Disney Vacay with two weeks notice and a budget of $2500 for a family of four but it is impossible to plan for child care. Seriously.

No one is entitled to skip their civic duty because an individual made two separate and distinct choices. One, you had a child and two you became a SAHM and didn't develop an alternate child care plan.

How about the inconvenience you cause me because I get called twice as much due to people having excuses? How about the work that I am not getting done that is directly related to the overall safety of every citizen of this country? That is an inconvenience.

So technically you being a SAHM and getting out of jury duty is a direct inconvenience to me and to the citizens of the US. I'm not complaining, just saying jury duty is something that we all have to sacrifice for.

Ok, maybe that was $.3 but the parent entitlement mentality works my last nerve some days.

 

[Michelle and crew]

So, did the op make such extravagent plans or is that a random broadbrush generealization? Those are always so accurate and pleasant.

I don't know about where you live, but where I live there are about 50 people called a day when they need a small handful. Someone not serving does not cause you to be called twice as many times. Talk about entitlement, etc. Poor thing.

So, everyone who is excused has made choices that brought them to that place.

 

[karice2]

So, did the op make such extravagent plans or is that a random broadbrush generealization? Those are always so accurate and pleasant.

I don't know about where you live, but where I live there are about 50 people called a day when they need a small handful. Someone not serving does not cause you to be called twice as many times. Talk about entitlement, etc. Poor thing.

So, everyone who is excused has made choices that brought them to that place.

You missed the entire intent of the message. When things are pleasant and fun people are willing to move heaven and earth to get it done. When things need to be done out of necessity then people want to make excuses as to why they can't get it done. It was a metaphor for the banal attempts to justify why it is so difficult to get child care for JD.

I live in a pretty decent sized city and I do get called more often than people on my own block. I have only lived here for five years and have been called 6 times. This is my personal experience. I don't complain about it or whine that I will have to do twice as much work when I get back. I suck it up and drive on.

You also missed the point about being entitled. Maybe you don't undertstand the definition. Entitled means "to furnish with a right or claim to something". So my having to do jury duty more often does not accurately fit the definition. If I said that I should get better services because i do it more often would imply that I thought I was entitled. A SAHM who wants to be excused for that reason is acting entitled.

As for the excused question, you are trying to introduce a slippery slope argument that is not a valid response to what I wrote. I specifically addressed choices that were made to have children and be a SAHM and then using those choices to get out of jury duty.

Now had I made an generalized statement like 'There is never a reason to miss jury duty', then the question about choices and excuses would be valid.

We all make choices in our life and sometimes those decisions causes an individual a little bit of hardship but we still have to live with them.

 

[memy26]

My $.2

All I read is how much of an inconvenience it is for a SAHM. Jury duty is inconvenient for everyone. It isn't like you get one day notice for JR. You get at least a couple of weeks. That is plenty of time to develop and vet some sort of short term child care plan.

I have seen people plan on this board how to do a Disney Vacay with two weeks notice and a budget of $2500 for a family of four but it is impossible to plan for child care. Seriously.

No one is entitled to skip their civic duty because an individual made two separate and distinct choices. One, you had a child and two you became a SAHM and didn't develop an alternate child care plan.

How about the inconvenience you cause me because I get called twice as much due to people having excuses? How about the work that I am not getting done that is directly related to the overall safety of every citizen of this country? That is an inconvenience.

So technically you being a SAHM and getting out of jury duty is a direct inconvenience to me and to the citizens of the US. I'm not complaining, just saying jury duty is something that we all have to sacrifice for.

Ok, maybe that was $.3 but the parent entitlement mentality works my last nerve some days.

 

[disfan07]

My $.2

All I read is how much of an inconvenience it is for a SAHM. Jury duty is inconvenient for everyone. It isn't like you get one day notice for JR. You get at least a couple of weeks. That is plenty of time to develop and vet some sort of short term child care plan.

I have seen people plan on this board how to do a Disney Vacay with two weeks notice and a budget of $2500 for a family of four but it is impossible to plan for child care. Seriously.

No one is entitled to skip their civic duty because an individual made two separate and distinct choices. One, you had a child and two you became a SAHM and didn't develop an alternate child care plan.

How about the inconvenience you cause me because I get called twice as much due to people having excuses? How about the work that I am not getting done that is directly related to the overall safety of every citizen of this country? That is an inconvenience.

So technically you being a SAHM and getting out of jury duty is a direct inconvenience to me and to the citizens of the US. I'm not complaining, just saying jury duty is something that we all have to sacrifice for.

Ok, maybe that was $.3 but the parent entitlement mentality works my last nerve some days.

I completely agree. One of the families I babysat for had 4 kids. At the time they were 6 months, 4, 7 and 9. She was called for jury duty at the same time that her husband was going to be out of town for work. I was there usual (and really only) babysitter but this was during the week when I had to work as well. Talk about bad timing. She has back up care (I mean really....you HAVE to when you ahve that many kids) but since she didnt know how long it was going to be, she didnt want them to have to be responsible for all 4 kids when it involved 3 different school drop offs, pick ups, etc. She was still able to figure out care for them.

The 6 month old and 4 year old spent the day with one of the parents from the preschool and the 7 and 9 year old spent the day with a family friend. I was able to get off of work at 5 that day and so I went and picked all 4 of them up and took them home to give them dinner and to get ready for bed. We ended up having to do this for 3 days.

Was it convenient. Heck no. Did she whine and complain about it. Heck no. I dont understand how people have NO ONE for back up care. Everyone I know has at least 1 person they can call on in an emergency. Also, where I lived, we had drop off daycare centers that would keep spots open for drop in care. A lot of parents used them when our canter was closed for Jewish Holidays.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I just wanted to respond to something I have read here over and over. Some people can't believe that parents don't have some sort of back up child care. I don't know why they can't believe it. In these days many grandparents work full time. Many people don't have family near by. Many people don't go out often if at all and don't even have a Saturday night sitter. Also, many people simply cannot afford to send their kids to some kind of drop in care. It is very expensive. In a true emergency I am sure that many people can call on a friend. For something like being a juror on a trial for an extended time period that is not a possibility. That is just asking way too much of someone.

Also, if you are nursing it is not as simple as "just pump." Some kids will not take a bottle. Try all you want and they will not take it. If you are at court you can't just pump whenever you need to. You have to follow their schedule. You also need time to actually have enough milk pumped in storage to last a day. Think about how much formula a baby drinks a day. Now keep in mind that breastmilk is digested quicker. A Mom can't just put an order in for 32oz of milk for the day. It takes time to up your supply etc. It is not a fountain.

I think that jury duty is a hardship for most people whether you have kids or not. I do think though that we need to require people to do it. There are plenty of people who would love to volunteer to do it. Why not offer that as an option to people?

 

[disfan07]

I just wanted to respond to something I have read here over and over. Some people can't believe that parents don't have some sort of back up child care. I don't know why they can't believe it. In these days many grandparents work full time. Many people don't have family near by. Many people don't go out often if at all and don't even have a Saturday night sitter. Also, many people simply cannot afford to send their kids to some kind of drop in care. It is very expensive. In a true emergency I am sure that many people can call on a friend. For something like being a juror on a trial for an extended time period that is not a possibility. That is just asking way too much of someone.

But the thing is, as a parent, that is your responsiblity when you choose to have kids. I just dont believe that you should be allowed to use it as an excuse. Other people than have to be inconvenienced because of choices you made. Jury duty is inconvenient for probably 99% of the people who have to serve. Your inconvenience is no more important than someone elses.

An about the sitter issue. I am on many peoples babysitter call list but they dont go out on saturday nights. Or really at all. When they called or emailed me they specifically said that they like to have a list of people to call in case of emergencies. I am on the list for 5 families. 4 of them , I have never sat for because they dont usually go out unless family is in town and than the grandparents watch them. 1 family has used me twice when one of their kids was sick and they didnt want to have to take the other one to the doctors with them. You dont have to use a babysitter normally to have a list of possible sitters.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

But the thing is, as a parent, that is your responsiblity when you choose to have kids. I just dont believe that you should be allowed to use it as an excuse. Other people than have to be inconvenienced because of choices you made. Jury duty is inconvenient for probably 99% of the people who have to serve. Your inconvenience is no more important than someone elses.
An about the sitter issue. I am on many peoples babysitter call list but they dont go out on saturday nights. Or really at all. When they called or emailed me they specifically said that they like to have a list of people to call in case of emergencies. I am on the list for 5 families. 4 of them , I have never sat for because they dont usually go out unless family is in town and than the grandparents watch them. 1 family has used me twice when one of their kids was sick and they didnt want to have to take the other one to the doctors with them. You dont have to use a babysitter normally to have a list of possible sitters.

I bolded. Nowhere did I say that my issues with it were more important than anyone else's. In fact at the end of my post I stated that jury duty is probably very difficult for most people. I was just stating the issues that SAHM's have.
As for being on a sitter list. Well, I am happy that you have found families that want to use you. In my area there simply are not tons of babysitters at my beck and call. I also will not leave my children with a teen. I also have 5 children. That is not something that a lot of sitters can handle appropriately. It is also a fortune to pay for babysitting which is why I stay home. In an emergency I can rely on my family and a few friends. However, once again, jury duty is not an emergency. It is like all of a sudden getting a full time job.

What if someone was getting married and jury duty interfered with their honeymoon? Is that a good excuse? They could reschedule you know.

I am not saying one reason is more important than another because to everyone their reasons are important. I do think that it is more of a hardship though on some people than it is on others. So that I why I think we should have volunteer lists for jurors. I know that if my children were grown I would sign up so someone else could have a break.
YMMV.

 

[EKW]

Haven't read the posts. Can only say, it's never convenient. But, it's not an option to not appear when called. You can delay for 6 months...that's the longest you can delay doing your service. If 6 months would help, request the delay. Surely, given 6 months, you could arrange for a sitter for a week if needed.

Every time this topic gets posted here, and it's come up several times in the past 5 years, the poster always feels the circumstances of their life make jury duty an unbearable burden for them. You can be angry, upset, worried...but you're going to have to do jury duty, that's life. Make sure you get your certificate before you leave...it exempts you from being called again by any other court for the next 12 months.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Haven't read the posts. Can only say, it's never convenient. But, it's not an option to not appear when called. You can delay for 6 months...that's the longest you can delay doing your service. If 6 months would help, request the delay. Surely, given 6 months, you could arrange for a sitter for a week if needed.

Every time this topic gets posted here, and it's come up several times in the past 5 years, the poster always feels the circumstances of their life make jury duty an unbearable burden for them. You can be angry, upset, worried...but you're going to have to do jury duty, that's life. Make sure you get your certificate before you leave...it exempts you from being called again by any other court for the next 12 months.

For some people it is an unbearable burden. Especially in this economy.

 

[Michelle and crew]

So for all of the high and mighty always have a plan folk, what do you do when your back up can't back up. What happens when gma has the flu, the sitter has a dentist appt., and husband is out of town for training. Yes, this did happen to me once, not for jury duty, but a day that I was supposed to be in court as an expert witness. In that case I had to take my 3 boys 5, 3, and 1 to court with me, and the bailiff who was a friend's dad watched them.

The thing is you can plan to have care for the dependent parent, or the children that you made the "choice" to have, lol, and crap still happens. Being all high and mighty, looking down on others is just plain stupid. The world is never made worse by compassion. Some people would rather be proved "right" than realize that life isn't black and white, right and wrong.

 

[herdtoDisney]

But the thing is, as a parent, that is your responsiblity when you choose to have kids. I just dont believe that you should be allowed to use it as an excuse. Other people than have to be inconvenienced because of choices you made. Jury duty is inconvenient for probably 99% of the people who have to serve. Your inconvenience is no more important than someone elses.

.

The 'inconveniences' are living, breathing, children. The most vulnerable of our citizens I just can't get over the idea that they are considered merely an inconvenience, rather than treasures and the future of our nation! If they need mom/dad for a few years, that's fine with me. That's a sacrifice for the better of our society.

Although I was very blessed to have extended family around when my babies were little and I was called-I didn't have outside the family sitters and I would never leave my kids with anyone who thinks they are an inconvenience and an excuse...

 

[Michelle and crew]

lol, I've even seen a juror dismissed because her dog was having puppies. I love small town life.

 

[kacaju]

In an emergency I can rely on my family and a few friends. However, once again, jury duty is not an emergency. It is like all of a sudden getting a full time job.

Jury duty is not an emergency, but it is a civil duty and family and a few friends would not help you out if you told them you got called? Really??

When I was a SAHM my friends and I were always willing to help each other out if we got called for jury duty.

It certainly cannot be compared to suddenly getting a job.

DH was called for grand jury and right before he was due to report we found out he needed heart surgery. The day he had to report, they said they will not except excuses at that time. He had to bring his Dr note explaining that in no way did the Dr realize before that he needed this surgery. He got excused for 6 months and got called again. this time to petit jury.

 

[kaytieeldr]

However, once again, jury duty is not an emergency. It is like all of a sudden getting a full time job.

Well, if anything, it's like finding out you'll be working a temp job... several weeks from now. As far as I know - and barring emergencies like judges having to send deputies to malls to subpoena jurors - like someone stated above recently, jury duty isn't a surprise. Potential jurors are given a great deal of notice.

What if someone was getting married and jury duty interfered with their honeymoon? Is that a good excuse? They could reschedule you know.

Reschedule, sure - but it appears most of the SAHMs in this thread expect that status and its accompanying potential hardship to get them OUT of jury duty.

No, I really do realize many of them say they'll serve 'later', when the kids are older - but that's not rescheduling the way the courts intend it; and it's not reasonable compared to all the other inconvenienced people called for jury duty

What really concerns me about this entire thread is the OP stating that she sent in her regular excuse (non-employed, caring for three small children) - that anyone
a "regular excuse" to avoid jury duty.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Jury duty is not an emergency, but it is a civil duty and family and a few friends would not help you out if you told them you got called? Really??
When I was a SAHM my friends and I were always willing to help each other out if we got called for jury duty.

It certainly cannot be compared to suddenly getting a job.

DH was called for grand jury and right before he was due to report we found out he needed heart surgery. The day he had to report, they said they will not except excuses at that time. He had to bring his Dr note explaining that in no way did the Dr realize before that he needed this surgery. He got excused for 6 months and got called again. this time to petit jury.

My friends and family work. A true emergency would be a different situation. They can't tell their boss that their friend or relative got called to jury duty so they need some time off to help.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Well, if anything, it's like finding out you'll be working a temp job... several weeks from now. As far as I know - and barring emergencies like judges having to send deputies to malls to subpoena jurors - like someone stated above recently, jury duty isn't a surprise. Potential jurors are given a great deal of notice.

Reschedule, sure - but it appears most of the SAHMs in this thread expect that status and its accompanying potential hardship to get them OUT of jury duty.

No, I really do realize many of them say they'll serve 'later', when the kids are older - but that's not rescheduling the way the courts intend it; and it's not reasonable compared to all the other inconvenienced people called for jury duty

What really concerns me about this entire thread is the OP stating that she sent in her regular excuse (non-employed, caring for three small children) - that anyone
a "regular excuse" to avoid jury duty.

Well I dont expect anything, but if I really did make the effort to make it work and I just couldn't then yes, that should be sufficient. That goes for anyone that is called to jury duty not just SAHM's.