agree to disagree? gray areas everywhere

[chicagodisneyfan]

Can't homeschooling be done at night?

oh please don't be the voice of reason!

My issue is it never seems to end with the SAHP - first it is no one to watch the baby, then it is no one to pick the kids up from school, then it is no one to drive the snowflakes to their activities. So it is not just a 4 or 5 year exemption from jury duty people are asking for, but potentially 15 years! Especially if you have several children.

 

[uconndz]

I haven't read all the posts so I'm sorry if this was posted already. I know someone who's done federal jury duty, this is not like regular jury duty. It lasts 18 months and it involves 3 days a month. Granted some days they cancel you- but the person I know on it was rarely cancelled.

 

[QVCshopper]

I don't feel that the justice system always operates fairly. I live in PA and have been married to DH for 12 years. I was a transplant to PA (formerly NY). I have been called for jury duty 2 times in my county and 1 time in a county I've never lived in since being married. DH has never been called--in 12 years! Same last name, political views, etc. So, I don't know how they go about picking people, but it seems like "transplants" are called more than "lifers" around here. I dialed in for the first time in my county (number not chosen), declined the other county as I don't live there, and indicated I'm a SAHM the second time I was called--by then I had two very young kids.

 

[Jex]

Not directed at anyone in particular, but people in general. If a husband missing a few non paid days off from work is going to cause financial hardships, and cause child care problems, maybe having children should have been better thought out.

 

[dogluva]

Not directed at anyone in particular, but people in general. If a husband missing a few non paid days off from work is going to cause financial hardships, and cause child care problems, maybe having children should have been better thought out.

That is what I am thinking, especially if it is one income. Maybe the SAHM's should be looking for some work if they have to live from paycheck to paycheck (husband's).

 

[Hannathy]

Not directed at anyone in particular, but people in general. If a husband missing a few non paid days off from work is going to cause financial hardships, and cause child care problems, maybe having children should have been better thought out.

I agree. but don't you know you aren't allowed to say that anymore...............

 

[allison443]

I haven't read all the posts so I'm sorry if this was posted already. I know someone who's done federal jury duty, this is not like regular jury duty. It lasts 18 months and it involves 3 days a month. Granted some days they cancel you- but the person I know on it was rarely cancelled.

I think you are talking about a grand jury (which decides whether to indict people) instead of a petit jury (which sits on trials.) Both state and federal courts have both kinds of juries. A grand jury usually has a schedule like what you're describing. Federal jury is not always like that, only for the grand jury.

 

[Leajess99]

Wow, you were very fortunate to have a mother willing to do all that for you. Not everyone's mother is willing/able to do that. I honestly can't believe why some people don't understand that.

So you have no friends or in home childcare providers that you can get to know and get help with?? I was stationed at Fort Lewis, Washington when my now ex first got stationed in Korea (gotta love the Army married couples program that sends one parent one way and the other another way) and I still had back up sitters. Most of my friends were active duty but I did find one friend who was a sahm willing to help if I needed her. I also had in-home childcare providers set as a backup. As a single parent (by choice or by chance) I always found help because I knew my kid(s) could not be left home alone (hmm, could have done what one set of Army parents did and lock the baby in the closet all day ) and at any time I could be deployed. Even after getting out of the military I always found someone who could help if need be. I find it amazing that so many have only working friends and no sahm friends.

 

[Michelle and crew]

Not directed at anyone in particular, but people in general. If a husband missing a few non paid days off from work is going to cause financial hardships, and cause child care problems, maybe having children should have been better thought out.

Eh, maybe you are right.bit obviously what is done is done...so, should they just take the extras out and drown them? What is your point? Unless it is just to stir the pot.

 

[Leajess99]

what a sexist comment. nice. If people like you would quit making this us against them and get the fact that some people do not have childcare this would make it a whole lot easier to find ways to work things out.

It is amazing how many people are willing to "assume" about the lives of others. If you haven't lived it your opinion is based on nothing speculation from the outside. That would be like me assuming what it would be like to be an older single, childless person. I can guess, but in the end it is just a WAG.

NOT sexist but quite true. If a single father or stay at home father tried to use the same excuse that so many women on here are using they would be blasted. Just like it is okay to take an older boy into the girl's bathroom but not the other way around. That is still how this society works. Oh and I do know a single father who has served Jury duty without having to resort to the same excuse I keep seeing here.

If one puts out the info and keeps using the "I can't find childcare" over and over than they are proving the point to all. There is childcare and there are resources to find childcare. Does no one know about 4Cs or other childcare assistance places?? Does no one claiming to not have childcare not know how to contact their state's childcare licensing agency?? I am just so amazed at the continued excuses. You know I could find everything out I needed to find out for a daycare in my ex's very small town for when he was to have summer visitation with our younger 2 to include violations and such just by doing research and contacting the licensing agency. I am 11 hours from where he lives in a whole different state but I did what I needed to for MY children to be cared for. In the end the need was no longer there due to a change in visitation but I did what I needed to in order to insure my children were taken care of and I had NO excuses.

 

[Leajess99]

It's easy to judge when YOU had the perfect situation and someone there to care for your children. It's very easy to not see other people's perspectives, but I think some in this board should try to. Again, I would jump through the hoops to go into court if called for jury duty, but I can understand how it'd be a significant hardshipAs for your comments on SAHDs, yes of course that's just as legitimate an excuse as a SAHM! Why wouldn't it be? They're still the primary care giver for a young child. My husband is leaving the military and will be being a SAHD for the next few years while he goes back to school. It will present just as many problems for him to go into jury duty as it would if it were me home instead. Of course, in my opinion it's easier now since both our kids are school aged, but childcare would still be pretty expensive. I don't see a problem with asking for compensation for that childcare, whether working or not. If you insist that parents serve on jury duty instead of deferring it for a few years, then in my opinion the court system needs to eat the cost of it.

I'm sorry but at NO point in time did I have the "perfect" situation. Yes, my mother moved down here AFTER I was stationed here for almost a year and AFTER I had already PCS'd from Fort Lewis, Washington where my ex and I were dual military and he was sent from there to Korea so I was a single parent. Kind of hard for him to help me out since he was overseas. I planned for situations as I had been taught all my life. It is NO one else's fault that other parents choose NOT to plan for situations.

The court should NOT have to "eat the cost" of your child's childcare. It is YOUR civil obligation to serve and stop making excuses for why you can't. Single people serve and don't get extra compesation so why should the court be required to treat you any differently??

ETA - My mother also had a job as it does require money to live on and the little bit she got as my dad's death benefits from the Army was NOT enough to live on.

 

[MrsPete]

Jury duty aside, I think it's a poor idea to have NO backup plan whatsoever for your children's care.

Suppose you become sick? Suppose you're sick enough that you need to be in the hospital? Suppose your husband is getting an award at an adults-only evening event (I use that example because it happened to us -- and the award ceremony was on the other side of the country)? Suppose you need to visit your lawyer, accountant, gynocologist, whatever, and it's really better not to take the kids to that appointment? Suppose you want to take one child out somewhere for a special "just me and mom" day? At some point ALL OF US have some sort of need to get out of the house and do some really important task.

If you don't have relatives whom you can trust for a day's childcare, it's really in your best interest to seek out like-minded friends with whom you can exchange the occasional day of child care.

I'm not saying that this is something that you should use all the time, or even something that you should absolutely love. But at some point we all have a need to do some adult chore, and it's better to have that back-up plan in mind before an emergency happens.

 

[Leajess99]

It is different, because in that case, the SAHM's (or SAHD) spouse could use FMLA to get time off work to care for the family. However, no such act exists for jury duty-maybe it should.

Not everyone has FMLA and it also does not apply until an employee has worked at their job for 1 year. Next attempt.

 

[SoonerSarah]

Really, do you actually refer to him as "the head of the household"?. This seems so fifties to me. Once you are married, aren't you both the heads? Maybe people do it but, I have never heard anyone I know refer to their husbands in this way.

I'm not sure why you care what I do or do not call my husband. Just because you think it's 50's doesn't mean that is the correct thing to do it, and even if someone calls their spouse "the head" doesn't mean that their spouse dominates and dictates their lives. I know a lot of people that call their husband the head of the household. I also know a lot of people that say that the wife is the neck, she holds up and supports the spouse in addition to turning his head to which way it should go.

Perhaps the 50's is a time period that I would prefer to live in. Perhaps calling my spouse the head is one of the ways that I show him respect. And perhaps I was quoting what someone else posted, which is in the post that you quoted.

I asked my hubby and he said that I've never referred to him as the head of the household. And he said it would be really weird if I were to do so. But he is. Which is my decision. And it's not the way I grew up.

 

[stitchlovestink]

Or - based on years of reading the DIS forums - the potential jurors with childcare issues not knowing/trusting even bonded or certified child care persons on such a list, or being unwilling to leave their children with anyone they don't know,,, yet, based on this thread and others, not being able (willing?) to get to know people whom they'd trust with their children for geographic or other reasons.

I have always been selective of whom I left my children with as once they are abused/lost/killed, NOTHING can be done to change the situation back to what it was prior. I allowed DH's parents to take older DD years ago at age 3 and they LOST her on a crowded public beach. YES, their own Grandchild. THANK GOD that she was found safe and sound. But sorry, after that episode I hardly left my children with anyone.
And if you know anyone who has had a child abused by a caretaker, you do tend to be much more protective as you can see that damage that is done first hand. One day's care is one thing, but what if you are chosen for a trial that lasts days or even weeks??? When my children were young that would have been a problem for me to find someone to keep them that much. Truthfully, I can't say that I'd want to be responsible to watch someone else's children for that long. I'd have to rearrange appointments I made and the like. So now, you're not only creating a problem for the person called to jury duty but their child care provider too.

Not a popular choice, but tell them you fully believe in the death penalty. No defending lawyer wants to hear that.

OH but Truly I DO believe in the death penalty!!

lol, while the dis seems to have its share of snowflakes, do you really know a lot of people like that irl? I don't. Most people I know are pretty practical. But maybe that is related to geographical area.

I don't see people having an issue with strangers watching their small children to be extreme. Do you all really just leave your kids with strangers? That is pretty stupid. Hell, I don't even drop my dog off with people I know nothing about. It has nothing to do with snobbery, but with common sense.

bolding is mine...
me either... My dog was abused by a man prior to our getting her. It has taken 7 years for her to 'get over it' and not be fearful of men. I would not chance having her mistreated or abused.

Respectfully, no. Serving on a jury is one's civic duty. It's not as if it's expected on a daily or even monthly basis - there are rules regarding how frequently one can be called, and jury duty can be deferred for a period of time. But if parents need to make care arrangements, or find funding for care, they should use the deferment option - not expect the court system to PAY them, which is what "eating the cost" of daycare would be.

bolding is mine...
but that's the crux of the problem is the inconsistency in what is considerd a reasonable deferment option by location.

The point I am trying to make is that-as a nation, either remove the blocks to SAHM's serving, or willingly give a requested deferrment. They'll still be serving, but maybe not at that particular moment in time. I have not seen a single poster in here who doesn't WANT to serve-just that it may be impossible at this particular moment. The system for deferrment seems to be wildly varied and not consistent.

Yes, exactly!

NOT sexist but quite true. If a single father or stay at home father tried to use the same excuse that so many women on here are using they would be blasted. Just like it is okay to take an older boy into the girl's bathroom but not the other way around. That is still how this society works. Oh and I do know a single father who has served Jury duty without having to resort to the same excuse I keep seeing here.

If one puts out the info and keeps using the "I can't find childcare" over and over than they are proving the point to all. There is childcare and there are resources to find childcare. Does no one know about 4Cs or other childcare assistance places?? Does no one claiming to not have childcare not know how to contact their state's childcare licensing agency?? I am just so amazed at the continued excuses. You know I could find everything out I needed to find out for a daycare in my ex's very small town for when he was to have summer visitation with our younger 2 to include violations and such just by doing research and contacting the licensing agency. I am 11 hours from where he lives in a whole different state but I did what I needed to for MY children to be cared for. In the end the need was no longer there due to a change in visitation but I did what I needed to in order to insure my children were taken care of and I had NO excuses.

bolding is mine...
No what is the 4Cs or other childcare assistance places? Yes, we are very aware of our state's daycare licensing agency. HOWEVER, MD has pretty strict in home day care laws. NONE of the centers around her accept drop-ins or temporary care children. And the in home daycares can only have 2 children under the age of 2 (considered an infant) at ANY TIME! These spots go very quickly and seldom to a part-time child. Many a day care mom (and I have known many) had NO problem filling their 'infant' spots. Heck I have known many working moms who had to start paying a portion of the weekly cost to 'hold' a spot for their baby in order to have somewhere to take them when they go back to work. It is fairly customary in this area to have to pay 1/2 of the weekly rate to hold a spot. Otherwise the provider can fill in usually in days. Not sure how other areas are. But around here, infant care would be in fact a hardship. JMHO

I'm sorry but at NO point in time did I have the "perfect" situation. Yes, my mother moved down here AFTER I was stationed here for almost a year and AFTER I had already PCS'd from Fort Lewis, Washington where my ex and I were dual military and he was sent from there to Korea so I was a single parent. Kind of hard for him to help me out since he was overseas. I planned for situations as I had been taught all my life. It is NO one else's fault that other parents choose NOT to plan for situations.

The court should NOT have to "eat the cost" of your child's childcare. It is YOUR civil obligation to serve and stop making excuses for why you can't. Single people serve and don't get extra compesation so why should the court be required to treat you any differently??

bolding is mine....
True, BUT they can't go to jail or be held in contempt because they couldn't find childcare or chose to leave their children home unattended.

 

[Leajess99]

Well, if this poster had not had the perfect situation, she would have been out of a job. You see, single parent military members (this goes for all, not just active duty) must have a family care plan on file whereby they list people willing to take their children and provide full-time care to them on short notice for as much as 18-24 months at a time. Without such a plan in place, the military member can be processed out and I've known a couple of people that happened to.

As a working single parent from time to time (thanks to deployments), I can tell you that my planning for child care and all possibilities related thereto, takes on a new meaning and urgency when you know there is only one responsible party for your children and you better believe I had 10 backup plans during those times. When DH is home, it's not as urgent. Also, now being a mostly SAHM, child care, when it is needed, is 10x more difficult to arrange and manage than it was when I was working 50+ hours a week. Even a simple thing like going to the dentist is more difficult. DH has to take off work and/or go with us whereas before, I'd just go over lunch during the workday, without a care knowing my kids were taken care of with no further action needed on my part.

-Astrid

Thank you and so very true. I had a few NCOs that had issues if I had to take my child to an appointment or take time off for them being sick or injured. I ended up having to take one day because my son was injured at the daycare and I had to do head injury percautions so no sleep for me. It stunk but thankfully my NCO was more understanding at that time. Other ones I had had previously probably would not have been.

 

[Peanut Giggleface]

I just got a notice of jury duty summons a couple of weeks ago. Of course the first day I was scheduled to appear fell 1 business day before we leave on our upcoming trip. I panicked!! We have planned this trip for close to a year, and no we didn't buy insurance. I sent in my request to be excused and didn't hear anything. So I called them and explained the situation. The lady was very understanding and accommodating. She rescheduled my jury duty assignment and we all lived happily ever after.....LOL

 

[sookie]

i think it shouldnt matter that just because you choose to not work, just because you choose to pop out kids - that you should get out of jury duty. i think the only way this should happen is if you have a breastfeeding mom and if pumping or bringing baby to momma would be disruptive. that being said - most people dont breastfeed (i did for my babys whole first year of life) and the general public is very un-understanding about breastfeeding and in general unsupportive. i love it when i meet someone who insists they nursed their baby, but i have only seen their babies with bottles.

ok off my soap box. but i think that it doesnt matter - if yuo have an emergency, get a deferral otherwise you need to serve your duty.
i wish i would get called but never have!

 

[Michelle and crew]

Jury duty aside, I think it's a poor idea to have NO backup plan whatsoever for your children's care.

Suppose you become sick? Suppose you're sick enough that you need to be in the hospital? Suppose your husband is getting an award at an adults-only evening event (I use that example because it happened to us -- and the award ceremony was on the other side of the country)? Suppose you need to visit your lawyer, accountant, gynocologist, whatever, and it's really better not to take the kids to that appointment? Suppose you want to take one child out somewhere for a special "just me and mom" day? At some point ALL OF US have some sort of need to get out of the house and do some really important task.

If you don't have relatives whom you can trust for a day's childcare, it's really in your best interest to seek out like-minded friends with whom you can exchange the occasional day of child care.

I'm not saying that this is something that you should use all the time, or even something that you should absolutely love. But at some point we all have a need to do some adult chore, and it's better to have that back-up plan in mind before an emergency happens.

You are right, and you said it nicely. Everyone should have a support system for emergencies. Many don't for various reasons. Some good and some not so good. I always feel so bad for those who don't have family, etc.

As for the hs comment, of course, school can be done in the everning. It is again just the issue of childcare, but some people just want to stir the pot.

 

[herdtoDisney]

i think it shouldnt matter that just because you choose to not work, just because you choose to pop out kids - that you should get out of jury duty. i think the only way this should happen is if you have a breastfeeding mom and if pumping or bringing baby to momma would be disruptive. that being said - most people dont breastfeed (i did for my babys whole first year of life) and the general public is very un-understanding about breastfeeding and in general unsupportive. i love it when i meet someone who insists they nursed their baby, but i have only seen their babies with bottles.

ok off my soap box. but i think that it doesnt matter - if yuo have an emergency, get a deferral otherwise you need to serve your duty.
i wish i would get called but never have!

Yeah ...being a SAHM or SAHD is work, you know. I worked when I was a SAHM, and I work now outside the home. Why is it ok to give a deferral to someone who runs a business that they cannot leave, but not ok to give a deferral to a parent that has CHILDREN they cannot leave? Shows what our society puts value on I don't see anyone in this thread hauranging small business owners-just moms who 'choose not to work' and 'pop out kids'.