Agree to Disagree! DISUnplugged Show March 22!

[jenrose66]

The point I was trying to make was I hate all the "new" add-ons. That aren't "new" they are just rehashing old experiences as something you now have to pay extra for now. If Disney holds a special event like Club Villain, Mickey's Very Merry Christmas Party, etc those are additional experiences that provide something extra then what a normal day ticket provides that is completely acceptable, and good for Disney for thinking of new services to provide and make money on. What bothers me is when they take something that was a free/first-come, first-served experience and find ways to charge people for it. Recently we've seen preferred parking, but how close are we to having to pay to meet Mickey? When will a "bronze level" ticket only allow me to watch Hall of Presidents from the back row?

Can Disney charge people extra and label it as providing a service that you don't have to pay for? Sure they are a Fortune 100 company in a capitalist society. But Disney used to be the Happiest Place On Earth for anyone that could afford to walk in the front gates, now I am afraid, and this is speculation that we might see a tiered system where the rich get the full experience while the rest get a shell of the experience unless they pay for the add-ons that used to be free.

If Disney wants more of my money then make the ticket prices more expensive, don't give me some tiered experience where I have to count my dollars every time I want to do something. When will Disney World feel like a carnival where I have pay for every experience?

I have not been to Disney since February of 2014. During that trip we had an ok time but it wasn't the greatest. I left that trip feeling like I didn't get a good value for my money. I had never felt that way before and I didn't like it.

Anyway I am one of the few people who decided to vote with my wallet. My family of 5 took our vacation dollars to Universal. At first I was nervous but as soon as we stepped into the hotel we didn't give Disney another thought. We stayed at RPR for 7 nights and went into the parks every day of our trip. We never once felt bored. We also felt like the hotel was a tremendous value given the front of the line passes.

For roughly the same money as we spent at Disney for POR we had a relaxing vacation in deluxe accommodations. We ate mostly sit down which is much cheaper than Disney sit down. Oh and I have an annual pass so I didn't have to buy a new ticket for my trip this year.

So regarding this after hours event. I think it makes Disney look greedy. I know I don't have to buy tickets to the event but I still feel like Disney doesn't value me as a customer they just want to suck every cent they can out of my family while providing little to no extra value. For that reason I am done with Disney World until this money grabbing calms down.

 

[TiggerTrigger]

Hi, my name is Scott and I'm a hypocrite. (Hi, Scott). Why you ask? Seeing this post made me think...perhaps Disney will start an Early morning experience that would allow you to ride BEFORE park opening. For years we have made Breakfast reservations for 8am so that we could get in the park, eat (really just an excuse to get in) and be ahead of the crowd at RD. I was willing to drop $140 (for the family) to have 'early' access. Did I want the breakfast, not really. Had we already met every character at these breakfasts, yes. I was though still interested in getting a leg up on the crowds as proven here in this shot:

View attachment 157779

The 6 people outside of my 2 kids in this shot are associated with Disney.

So, I'm a hypocrite because I condemn Disney for creating "paid" early or late access, but that's very similar to what I've been doing for years. Granted I get a meal out of the deal and it's not really an exclusive event, but I am obviously willing to pay a little to have access.

I'll admit...I'm pretty proud of this picture...there was literally no one near us as everyone was going to Anna and Elsa and the crowds coming from the gate were well behind us. #obssessed #uberplanner #enabler #whatcanisayilovemykids #verucasalt

You not only make a good point, but you've made it clear that I am guilty of this same kind of hypocrisy. I always tell newbies how much I love pre-park opening meals...say I'm killing 2 birds with one stone by getting breakfast (which we need) along with character interaction (which keeps the kids from asking for M&Gs during park hours) + you get some good photo ops. And while it's not $150 a head, it's also only about an hour and I'm getting no rides out of it. When you consider CRT breakfast is over $55 per adult and this trial 3-hour evening pkg breaks down to $50 an hour and includes rides, characters and treats (again- how many Mickey premium bars can I eat in 1 hour and keep down after riding Space Mountain )- in reality, maybe the evening event really isn't that different when considering the pre-park opening meal rationale. Still, when MVMCP and MNSSHP are a fraction of the price and for now, we don't know of any special hooks to justify this event costing that much more...it really makes me wonder over where all of this is going.

 

[pontikes67]

This will not change anyone's mind one way or another, but I still like the thought. A couple of years ago Dallas Mavericks Owner and Billionaire Mark Cuban put this on his Facebook page:

"It's the same thing I tell my businesses and would tell every business. You shouldn't try to get every last second of a person's attention or every last penny that you can squeeze from them.

There is a big difference between optimizing the relationship you have with your customers and maximizing short term revenue. Building customers for life is about building relationships and anticipating customer wants and needs.

Customers/Fans/Advertisers know when they are being pushed. They know when they are being squeezed. It always ends up costing the business in the end."

 

[cxcelica]

Still, when MVMCP and MNSSHP are a fraction of the price and for now, we don't know of any special hooks to justify this event costing that much more...it really makes me wonder over where all of this is going.

I wonder if it will be the exclusivity of the event. I went to MVMCP and MNSSHP last year and both events had crowds comparable to that of a normal day at Magic Kingdom. It seems that Disney has done away with limiting the tickets to the holiday parties like they did when they first started.

If this party is limited to 5,000 people (just a random number), I think that will be a huge draw for people considering doing it.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I wonder if it will be the exclusivity of the event. I went to MVMCP and MNSSHP last year and both events had crowds comparable to that of a normal day at Magic Kingdom. It seems that Disney has done away with limiting the tickets to the holiday parties like they did when they first started.

If this party is limited to 5,000 people (just a random number), I think that will be a huge draw for people considering doing it.

Fully agree - if it literally is you can walk onto any ride with no wait and meet tons of characters (potentially some rare ones) then I think there is value to that, especially during peak seasons ....

... but we will have to see how it plays out. I know people used to feel that the crowds were small at Parties and it was a great opportunity to get on rides with lower waits, but that they have gotten much more crowded in recent years and the value for that aspect of them is not longer there

 

[TheMaxRebo]

This will not change anyone's mind one way or another, but I still like the thought. A couple of years ago Dallas Mavericks Owner and Billionaire Mark Cuban put this on his Facebook page:

"It's the same thing I tell my businesses and would tell every business. You shouldn't try to get every last second of a person's attention or every last penny that you can squeeze from them.

There is a big difference between optimizing the relationship you have with your customers and maximizing short term revenue. Building customers for life is about building relationships and anticipating customer wants and needs.

Customers/Fans/Advertisers know when they are being pushed. They know when they are being squeezed. It always ends up costing the business in the end."

I absolutely agree with that - and Disney knows that ... but it is finding the tipping point. How much can you push people before you lose them as a future customer and how many to you lose vs the increased revenue from those that stay

That is, if they lose 10% of their audience from these actions, but revenue from the remaining 90% increases by 30%, then it is worth it ... but if it costs them 40% of the customers and the remaining 60% don't increase their spending enough then it is past that tipping point

You can increase total revenue by increased number of sales or increasing the price per sale ... Disney parks are already pretty maxed out as far as numbers (or in some views past the saturation point) so they are trying to get more from what they have ... and if that costs them 5% of the people it is probably worth it

I think the risk is the potential damage to the brand long term. If people still go but don't have the same warm feelings about it, does that impact their memories and then trickle down to their kids, etc.?

 

[amberg93]

So I have a problem with the fact that they took the fp viewing areas away and a problem with the way that it was dismissed so quickly by Kevin yesterday. I respect Kevin and I understand where he's coming from. However, it really bothered me that he kept trying to talk over Teresa (I can't be the only one who noticed this?) and she didn't get to express her thoughts as fully. I heard a lot more about what Kevin thought than Teresa and I wanted to hear them more equally.

I am okay with there being premiums for experiences. I've paid for the fantasmic dining package, I understand dessert parties and I have no problems with fireworks cruises (I was fortunate enough to be able to go on one thanks to the generosity of a fellow DISer). My problem is when the only two options are wait two hours on a curb or pay for a spot. There are tons of people who don't have the money to pay for that extra expense or the ability to wait two hours on a curb and the fastpass viewing area really allowed people who couldn't pay and couldn't wait to make the choice to use one of their passes for an attraction for that purpose instead and that was a service to everyone.

However, without that option it's now really a crappy situation. We took a large family trip this past November and used the fastpass option for the parade and it was a Godsend. My mom and Grandma physically couldn't sit down on the curb or stand in a spot for two hours. I'd like to see anyone managing to get kids to sit still for that long either. Nor did I want to take away my Aunt and Uncle's time with their kids or force my brother and his fiance to wait for that time to get the best experience. Obviously, my wife and I could have done it. We could not save seats for 9 other people though. Let's be realistic, no one is on board for that. The fastpass option really gave people with large families and limited time (who didn't want to use fastpasses or couldn't use them for the bigger attractions) a good option to save some actual time and still get the top notch experience. That's my problem with the doing away with things.

If people are willing to pay extra for something, fine, but give people a free option as well that's worth something. Fantasmic is split into stand-by, fastpass and paid dining packages and I fully agree with that program and was happy for a while Wishes had those options too.

 

[Andrew Collier]

So I have a problem with the fact that they took the fp viewing areas away and a problem with the way that it was dismissed so quickly by Kevin yesterday. I respect Kevin and I understand where he's coming from. However, it really bothered me that he kept trying to talk over Teresa (I can't be the only one who noticed this?) and she didn't get to express her thoughts as fully. I heard a lot more about what Kevin thought than Teresa and I wanted to hear them more equally.

I am okay with there being premiums for experiences. I've paid for the fantasmic dining package, I understand dessert parties and I have no problems with fireworks cruises (I was fortunate enough to be able to go on one thanks to the generosity of a fellow DISer). My problem is when the only two options are wait two hours on a curb or pay for a spot. There are tons of people who don't have the money to pay for that extra expense or the ability to wait two hours on a curb and the fastpass viewing area really allowed people who couldn't pay and couldn't wait to make the choice to use one of their passes for an attraction for that purpose instead and that was a service to everyone.

However, without that option it's now really a crappy situation. We took a large family trip this past November and used the fastpass option for the parade and it was a Godsend. My mom and Grandma physically couldn't sit down on the curb or stand in a spot for two hours. I'd like to see anyone managing to get kids to sit still for that long either. Nor did I want to take away my Aunt and Uncle's time with their kids or force my brother and his fiance to wait for that time to get the best experience. Obviously, my wife and I could have done it. We could not save seats for 9 other people though. Let's be realistic, no one is on board for that. The fastpass option really gave people with large families and limited time (who didn't want to use fastpasses or couldn't use them for the bigger attractions) a good option to save some actual time and still get the top notch experience. That's my problem with the doing away with things.

If people are willing to pay extra for something, fine, but give people a free option as well that's worth something. Fantasmic is split into stand-by, fastpass and paid dining packages and I fully agree with that program and was happy for a while Wishes had those options too.

I agree with this! I am a new listener, and was sort of shocked by all of yesterday's podcast, but especially this segment. I don't know how anyone could think it was okay to tell people they should either spend two hours of precious park time sitting on a curb, or pay extra money for seating. Things like parades, fireworks, should be equally enjoyed by everyone in the park, and not dependent on your salary or savings account. Disney is for families to enjoy spending time together, and it isn't fun if you have to sit on a curb and miss out because you can't afford to get a good seat otherwise.

 

[JJZMgailey]

I agree with this! I am a new listener.....

Welcome to the party, Andrew!! Glad you're here!

 

[TheMaxRebo]

So I have a problem with the fact that they took the fp viewing areas away and a problem with the way that it was dismissed so quickly by Kevin yesterday. I respect Kevin and I understand where he's coming from. However, it really bothered me that he kept trying to talk over Teresa (I can't be the only one who noticed this?) and she didn't get to express her thoughts as fully. I heard a lot more about what Kevin thought than Teresa and I wanted to hear them more equally.

I am okay with there being premiums for experiences. I've paid for the fantasmic dining package, I understand dessert parties and I have no problems with fireworks cruises (I was fortunate enough to be able to go on one thanks to the generosity of a fellow DISer). My problem is when the only two options are wait two hours on a curb or pay for a spot. There are tons of people who don't have the money to pay for that extra expense or the ability to wait two hours on a curb and the fastpass viewing area really allowed people who couldn't pay and couldn't wait to make the choice to use one of their passes for an attraction for that purpose instead and that was a service to everyone.

However, without that option it's now really a crappy situation. We took a large family trip this past November and used the fastpass option for the parade and it was a Godsend. My mom and Grandma physically couldn't sit down on the curb or stand in a spot for two hours. I'd like to see anyone managing to get kids to sit still for that long either. Nor did I want to take away my Aunt and Uncle's time with their kids or force my brother and his fiance to wait for that time to get the best experience. Obviously, my wife and I could have done it. We could not save seats for 9 other people though. Let's be realistic, no one is on board for that. The fastpass option really gave people with large families and limited time (who didn't want to use fastpasses or couldn't use them for the bigger attractions) a good option to save some actual time and still get the top notch experience. That's my problem with the doing away with things.

If people are willing to pay extra for something, fine, but give people a free option as well that's worth something. Fantasmic is split into stand-by, fastpass and paid dining packages and I fully agree with that program and was happy for a while Wishes had those options too.

I do think there is something more "off" to this than other things they have added in that they created this FP+ opportunity and even built the new viewing area ... and then remove it to, presumably, make it a pay/premium option. It's like they wanted to get you hooked on it for free and then start charging you for it. (come and get ya Disney crack - first hit is free!)

I like your idea of maybe having multiple areas - one for reserving with FP+ and then one as a pay/premium area that maybe includes mickey bars or something as well

 

[SorcererHeidi]

I agree with this! I am a new listener, and was sort of shocked by all of yesterday's podcast, but especially this segment. I don't know how anyone could think it was okay to tell people they should either spend two hours of precious park time sitting on a curb, or pay extra money for seating. Things like parades, fireworks, should be equally enjoyed by everyone in the park, and not dependent on your salary or savings account. Disney is for families to enjoy spending time together, and it isn't fun if you have to sit on a curb and miss out because you can't afford to get a good seat otherwise.

Yes, welcome Andrew!

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I agree with this! I am a new listener, and was sort of shocked by all of yesterday's podcast, but especially this segment. I don't know how anyone could think it was okay to tell people they should either spend two hours of precious park time sitting on a curb, or pay extra money for seating. Things like parades, fireworks, should be equally enjoyed by everyone in the park, and not dependent on your salary or savings account. Disney is for families to enjoy spending time together, and it isn't fun if you have to sit on a curb and miss out because you can't afford to get a good seat otherwise.

welcome Andrew! I will say I think yesterday's show was definitely more argumentative (for lack of a better word) than most. I think the point Kevin was making was against the question of fairness ... you don't "have" to pay to see the parade, you can stake out a spot if you want. I agree that it isn't a great solution and would be better to not have to wait (and why I think it kinda sucks that they offered the FP+ spot and now taking it away).

I actually think Theresa had a great comment when she said "it's not that it isn't fair, it's that it's sad"

 

[SorcererHeidi]

I actually think Theresa had a great comment when she said "it's not that it isn't fair, it's that it's sad"

Haven't watched the entire show yet, but that's what I've been saying for awhile......it all makes me very, very sad.....both for myself (because I know how great it used to be, and how happy it made me), and for those that don't even know what they're missing, if that makes any sense.

 

[J'Adore Disney]

I enjoyed this show, as I enjoy most all of them, but this one in particular was so right on! I agree with Kevin 100%.

 

[SarahDisney]

For those who haven't seen it yet, there's an article up on the Disney Parks Blog:

https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/b...of-nighttime-fun-at-walt-disney-world-resort/

They specifically say that this does not replace EMH. Let's hope that continues to be the case.
Nothing about special character meets or fireworks shows. Guests will be allowed in at 7pm, event is from 11 pm to 2 am.

From the comments ... apparently people want to know what Disney's definition of limited is.

 

[DisneyKevin]

I don't know how anyone could think it was okay to tell people they should either spend two hours of precious park time sitting on a curb, or pay extra money for seating. Things like parades, fireworks, should be equally enjoyed by everyone in the park, and not dependent on your salary or savings account. Disney is for families to enjoy spending time together, and it isn't fun if you have to sit on a curb and miss out because you can't afford to get a good seat otherwise.

I guess I'm confused by this definition of fairness.

Guests staying onsite can book fast passes 60 days in advance. Everyone else can book at 30 days.

Seems to me that getting preferred seating has always been based on your salary or savings account.

If you can afford to stay on site, you have a far better chance of getting the space you want...otherwise it's the curb.

I actually think this new option has leveled the playing field.

Now, the options are time versus money, but now it's an option open to everyone.

You get to decide which is more important, your time or your money...but the option to see the fireworks/parade etc is still part of your admission.

In my mind it's like valet parking. It's there if you want it....but the regular parking is still there.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I guess I'm confused by this definition of fairness.

Guests staying onsite can book fast passes 60 days in advance. Everyone else can book at 30 days.

Seems to me that getting preferred seating has always been based on your salary or savings account.

If you can afford to stay on site, you have a far better chance of getting the space you want...otherwise it's the curb.

I actually think this new option has leveled the playing field.

Now, the options are time versus money, but now it's an option open to everyone.

You get to decide which is more important, your time or your money...but the option to see the fireworks/parade etc is still part of your admission.

In my mind it's like valet parking. It's there if you want it....but the regular parking is still there.

I fully agree with you that so far everything announced or rumored is still fair (now if it moves to something where you have to pay extra just to see the fireworks or a parade, etc. at all, that is something else)

That said, for them to have had a FP+ viewing area for the parades, etc. which some people appreciated - especially if you have health concerns or little kids which can make waiting on the curb for hours a real challenge - and then to take that away is kinda sucky and unfortunate. And I think things can be fair, but kinda sucky for some individuals at the same time

 

[kbelle8995]

Here's the thing. The $149.00 for three hours park time will be a success if Disney learned anything from Villians Unleashed party. If they didn't and this three extra park hours is crammed to the top of the castle with guests than no it will not be a success.

 

[pontikes67]

I actually think this new option has leveled the playing field.

I don't see it so black and white. It's really a conundrum, but I don't think it has leveled the playing field.

Of course, I'm arguing from the standpoint, I, like you, can afford the privileges but still think it's an entirely new set of rules. I am also totally a Capitalist, but I still see how this excludes or changes the experience for many.

regarding FP+ : I think, because of the Value Resorts on property which are priced more comparable to non-property hotels, you could still get the advantage of booking FP+ early AND still have a more comparably priced room rate to the non-property AND you receive the same benefit as those staying in the POLY Bungalows, so the size of your wallet doesn't change the 'accessibility'. That's an even playing field.

Like I said, I'm a hypocrite. I can argue both sides of this issue, but to this point, I've been willing to open my wallet and pay to receive perks. Shame on me

 

[DisneyKevin]

I fully agree with you that so far everything announced or rumored is still fair (now if it moves to something where you have to pay extra just to see the fireworks or a parade, etc. at all, that is something else)

That said, for them to have had a FP+ viewing area for the parades, etc. which some people appreciated - especially if you have health concerns or little kids which can make waiting on the curb for hours a real challenge - it is kinda sucky and unfortunate. And I think things can be fair, but kinda sucky for some individuals at the same time

I guess I'll have an opinion when I see a change, until then it's all speculation.

I have been very vocal about my dislike of the whole fastness system and I've given my reasons why.

I have been told that I have a "nostalgic look" at Walt Disney World and that I need to understand that things change.

I agree not all change benefits everyone, but the old saying is true here...you can't make everyone happy.