Aggressive anti-rental email response from MS

[lawboy2001]

I've booked a reservation that I intend to offer for rent on a well-known timeshare rental/sale platform.

An advisor at the platform emailed and indicated they would be verifying the rental details and asked me to contact the resort to let them know they would be calling to "expedite" verification.

So, I emailed Member Services and told them this and just gave them a heads up. In hindsight, on a better day, I would have been more coy about what I was doing and maybe not bothered contacting MS at all. I have a bad cold today

But regardless I am frankly stunned by the email response I received:

Thank you for contacting Disney Vacation Club®.

While Members of Disney Vacation Club do have the ability to rent out Disney Vacation Club accommodations through their Membership on an occasional basis, use of Disney Vacation Club accommodations for commercial purposes is expressly prohibited. Commercial purposes include a pattern of rental activity. We view rentals of Disney Vacation Club accommodations over the Internet as a pattern of rental activity, which is prohibited under the Membership rules. Furthermore, we reserve the right not to honor any accommodations purchased or rented on the Internet. Please let us know if we may be of further assistance. Thank you and have a magical day I am well aware of the restriction on commercial renting, but the suggestion that a rental "over the internet" constitutes a "pattern" of prohibited rental activity is surely wrong, is it not? It's 2023 -- unless we are limited to renting to our personal friends, any rental will be conducted "over the internet." And it can't be because of my past activity -- although I have rented from time to time in the past, I've used my membership 3x since my last rental! I took them up on their offer of further assistance and asked for the email of a supervisor to complain. Either the advisor is off base, or the approved messaging is off base, IMHO.

 

[RoseGold]

Wow. Yes, "over the Internet" is new. Haven't seen that before. And that would be a billion rentals. It's not like it would be hard to figure out what those confirmed rentals are all over the internet. Are they shutting down all of those?

I was thinking this was just the standard copypasta response, but this is weird one.

 

[DonMacGregor]

I've booked a reservation that I intend to offer for rent on a well-known timeshare rental/sale platform.

An advisor at the platform emailed and indicated they would be verifying the rental details and asked me to contact the resort to let them know they would be calling to "expedite" verification.

I'm wondering if it was because you emailed member services about the rental company reaching out to them to verify (never heard of that before). Could it be a response specifically to using a third party broker ("over the internet"), as third party sites are a commercial enterprise and, in essence, advertise either points or confirmed rentals for a fee?

Just thinking pout loud here, but they may be considering using a third party site to advertise your points over the internet to be commercial activity.

 

[kes601]

I'm wondering if it was because you emailed member services about the rental company reaching out to them to verify (never heard of that before). Could it be a response specifically to using a third party broker ("over the internet"), as third party sites are a commercial enterprise and, in essence, advertise either points or confirmed rentals?

Just thinking pout loud here, but they may be considering using a third party site to advertise your points over the internet to be commercial activity.

I was about to say the same thing. Since they prohibit renting for commercial purposes, perhaps they are going to start viewing these third party rental sites as commercial and therefore not enforcing it by number of rentals, but rather the way it is being rented. From what I gather there is no set in stone definition so they could change what constitutes commercial whenever they want to.

ETA: I'm also not sure how the rental company could contact MS (or the resort) to confirm the reservation. They'd need all of your other information (membership #, last 4 of social, etc) just to get MS to release the info.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I want to know who you're using, because the "call to verify" is bananas, as per @kes601 - they'd need all your info and need to masquerade AS you to get the info, and that is gross.

 

[Matty B13]

I wouldn't use this rental company either.

 

[DonMacGregor]

ETA: I'm also not sure how the rental company could contact MS (or the resort) to confirm the reservation. They'd need all of your other information (membership #, last 4 of social, etc) just to get MS to release the info.

Exactly. There's so much there that would raise all sorts of red flags for me, and for DVC.

 

[DonMacGregor]

I want to know who you're using, because the "call to verify" is bananas, as per @kes601 - they'd need all your info and need to masquerade AS you o get the info, and that is gross.

I mean, at that point they don't need to "verify" anything, as they can control/change the reservation as they see fit and you no longer have control over your points (ALL of your points), right?

 

[Best Aunt]

That's really odd.

Neither David's (https://dvcrequest.com/) nor the Board Sponsor DVC Rental Store (https://dvcrentalstore.com/) ever said anything about "verifying the rental details" and there have been no reports of either company asking the Owner to "contact the resort to let them know they would be calling to "expedite" verification."

If you use either of those two companies, you forward your rental confirmation email to them. As far as I know, that is all that they do to verify the rental details.

And, if you did want to verify, wouldn't you do it with DVC Member Services, not with the resort? Shouldn't a rental agency know that?

Smells fishy to me.

 

[RoseGold]

I agree this "verification" sounds sus, I mean what on earth?

But I'm more concerned about MS just making up this new stuff that "the internet" means it is a pattern of commercial use. That doesn't even make sense, and it would be a brand new rule.

 

[CarolynFH]

I've booked a reservation that I intend to offer for rent on a well-known timeshare rental/sale platform.

I'm with the folks above who would like to know which platform this is. However, from reading regularly on TUG as well as from recent personal experience, I have a strong suspicion of which platform it is (and it doesn't specialize in DVC rentals).

 

[lawboy2001]

That's really odd.

Neither David's (https://dvcrequest.com/) nor the Board Sponsor DVC Rental Store (https://dvcrentalstore.com/) ever said anything about "verifying the rental details" and there have been no reports of either company asking the Owner to "contact the resort to let them know they would be calling to "expedite" verification."

If you use either of those two companies, you forward your rental confirmation email to them. As far as I know, that is all that they do to verify the rental details.

And, if you did want to verify, wouldn't you do it with DVC Member Services, not with the resort? Shouldn't a rental agency know that?

Smells fishy to me.

Thanks to all for this input!! I agree, this verification is pointless...in the fog of my cold I didn't catch that. But not to worry, this is a very legit company, I have used them with my Hyatt timeshare. redweek.com In case that gets caught in the filter it is a well known company in existence since the 1990s as far as i know.

 

[lawboy2001]

I agree this "verification" sounds sus, I mean what on earth?

But I'm more concerned about MS just making up this new stuff that "the internet" means it is a pattern of commercial use. That doesn't even make sense, and it would be a brand new rule.

If I get a supervisor's email I'm going to focus on that -- this claim that because the rental was secured "on the internet" through a rental facilitation platform makes the rental (ANY such rental) a "commercial" rental. Unless they have some solid legal support for that, it is just their interpretation and maybe I will call their bluff! The membership rules permit rentals provided the ownership is primarily for personal use and prohibit commercial use of the membership. The occassional rental, arranged through whatever means including online professional platforms, isn't a commercial use of the DVC membership.

And the other problem as you point out is them just making this up. Surely the members should be notified of a brand new rule, that they make up.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

While it may be making stuff up on the MS side, I think "member is giving all this info to a broker" is going to trip MS' wires. You can't just call MS and "verify" a booking unless you are the owner. You should not be giving that much information about your contract to anyone, even if it is a "reputable" company. DVC tends to be stricter about discussing bookings than many other timeshares.

 

[kes601]

While it may be making stuff up on the MS side, I think "member is giving all this info to a broker" is going to trip MS' wires. You can't just call MS and "verify" a booking unless you are the owner. You should not be giving that much information about your contract to anyone, even if it is a "reputable" company. DVC tends to be stricter about discussing bookings than many other timeshares.

It is interesting though, I went to the site the OP linked and there are a lot of "Verified" DVC rentals available.....

 

[_auroraborealis_]

It is interesting though, I went to the site the OP linked and there are a lot of "Verified" DVC rentals available.....

I just... barely give that much info to people I even like!

 

[DonMacGregor]

It is interesting though, I went to the site the OP linked and there are a lot of "Verified" DVC rentals available.....

But DVC Rental Store and David's both "verify" the reservation too: by requesting that the member provide a printout of the reservation. Regardless of how a reservation is purportedly "verified", we all know an owner can modify or cancel a reservation 5 seconds after someone "verifies" it. "Verified" means absolutely nothing.

 

[DonMacGregor]

And the other problem as you point out is them just making this up. Surely the members should be notified of a brand new rule, that they make up.

But the issue is, there is no "old rule". DVC has never tied themselves to any codified definition of what "commercial" means. Sure, there is the tangential reference to "20 reservations", but nowhere do they tie themselves down to that. It's about as undefined and ambiguous as the ROFR process.

 

[lawboy2001]

While it may be making stuff up on the MS side, I think "member is giving all this info to a broker" is going to trip MS' wires. You can't just call MS and "verify" a booking unless you are the owner. You should not be giving that much information about your contract to anyone, even if it is a "reputable" company. DVC tends to be stricter about discussing bookings than many other timeshares.

Really all I gave them was the confirmation….none of the other info that others have pointed out the company would need to have MS actually talk to them. And you can’t rent a reservation without sending the other side the proof of a confirmed reservation so….

 

[RoseGold]

But the issue is, there is no "old rule". DVC has never tied themselves to any codified definition of what "commercial" means. Sure, there is the tangential reference to "20 reservations", but nowhere do they tie themselves down to that. It's about as undefined and ambiguous as the ROFR process.

Sure, there was no old rule. But this response, internet = pattern, is a completely new rule.