Advice needed ASAP- SIL at SSR now given NS room but...

[erikthewise]

I think making people sign a form that they will be charged $xxx if they smoke in the room works as a deterrent for most smokers, just as the possibility of a ticket keeps most people from going more than 5-10 miles over the speed limit. Yes, there will probably be some smokers who smoke anyway and then yell at the hotel management when they are charged a fee, but I bet the threat of a fine keeps most people from breaking the rules. The amount of the fine also appears to be significant. I read an article about this where a hotel manager said that when the fine was $100, some people still smoked in the room. So they raised the fine to $200 (or maybe $250?) and since then, nobody has smoked in the rooms.

Absolutely. Just because a solution doesn't work 100% of the time doesn't mean it's not worth doing. If there is something reasonable that can be done to prevent 50-90% of the cases, it may be worthwhile.

 

[Sammie]

Fines lead to some interesting process questions - would they require DVCers to leave a credit card as a deposit? Not everyone does. If they don't would they append your charge to next years dues bill? Overcomable, but interesting.

The timeshares we stay in at the beach require a credit card to cover the possiblity of smoke or other damages.

This would have an interesting affect on renting.

 

[CarolMN]

Fines lead to some interesting process questions - would they require DVCers to leave a credit card as a deposit? Not everyone does. If they don't would they append your charge to next years dues bill? Overcomable, but interesting.

Remember the thread in which a poster said DVC "froze" his account due to a room bill / credit card problem? (Not even his bill, belonged to his BIL and it sounded like it was resort's fault to begin with).

I think all they'd have to do would be to freeze the member's account until paid. IMHO, that would be more effective than just adding a fine to to next year's bill. Even if DVC ended up "giving in" on the fine, who would want his/her account frozen while the dispute raged?

 

[ReneeQ]

Some of the time share units we have stayed in at other locations make you sign a $500 agreement and have smoke sensitive alarms in the room. They won't even allow smoking on the patios or balconies.

This sounds WONDERFUL!!! Where is this? I'd love to stay there. Why couldn't Disney do something like this? Wouldn't something as simple as cigarette smoke alarms solve everything?

 

[Dean]

Sorry to beat a dead horse here but non smoking rules are only enforcable if you can prove the person smoked. Unless cought in the act they can just deny it, and someone saying it smells like smoke is not proof. Smoke may have come in through the window or been on the persons clothing. Go to a smokey club then come home and thow your clothes in the hamper. the next day the whole room smells like smoke. The easiest way is to have enough smoking rooms so when a smoker wants one they can get it. And keep them all together so it won't blow out thier door and into the next room. OP is correct about dvc not being obligated to fill any request, contract clearly states requests are not garanteed. I would think they would do everthing possible especially for medical reasons.
For the record I am a nonsmoker it just dosn't seem to bother me as much as some, a little air freshener and rooms are usually ok. Do enjoy the non smoking resturants and bars in the states that have passed the law. don't know what PA is waiting for..

Not necessarily true. But not that hard to prove in most situations regardless. The ones I know of that have this type of rule only enforce it for obvious situations. It's no different than any other damage situation. IMO, the fear that somone will be falsely accused it unfounded and a remote possibility at best. But I agree that having smoke detectors, hopefully that turn on the sprinkler system (only mostly joking), would go a long way.

 

[nanajoyx2]

When DH and I stayed at the Grand Californian in 2001 we awoke to the fire alarm going off. The entire hotel was evacuated. There was no fire and we returned to our room without an explanation. The next morning I asked at check-in what the problem had been and was told someone was smoking in their room and they would face a stiff fine. Maybe the Disneyland hotels do have tobacco smoke detectors.

 

[dianeschlicht]

When DH and I stayed at the Grand Californian in 2001 we awoke to the fire alarm going off. The entire hotel was evacuated. There was no fire and we returned to our room without an explanation. The next morning I asked at check-in what the problem had been and was told someone was smoking in their room and they would face a stiff fine. Maybe the Disneyland hotels do have tobacco smoke detectors.

Hey, I LIKE that one!!!

 

[fishermouse]

I completely disagree; you're splitting hairs, and this attitude is letting the resort off the hook.

A smoked-in room is absolutely NOT habitable for myself or my son (and obviously a lot of other people), whether a particular resort considers it to be or not. I didn't spend thousands of dollars for a room I can't stay in because of someone else's bad habits -- DVC needs to accommodate the majority, not the minority in this case.

DisneyLand resorts are all smoke-free .... it's time for WDW to take the same stance.

Not taking the smokers side here just being a little bit of a devils advocate, I guess. Where would DVC stand legally with the smokers who bought in with the belief they would be able to get a smoking room.
Do agree with OP that the threat of a fine even if unenforcable would drastically reduce the problem. I'm sure this is a bit of a legal tightrope for Disney. A state wide smoking ban that includes lodging would be the best solution for everyone. Until then wer'e probably going to have to cope with it as best we can. Really feel bad for the folks with medical problems from it, for most of us it's just an anoyance. I doubt if the smokers who break this rule realize they could be putting a childs health at risk. Have a coworker whose daughter gets sick if someone in the next room smokes, Thats why all smoking rooms should be located in one area.

 

[Groucho]

Not taking the smokers side here just being a little bit of a devils advocate, I guess. Where would DVC stand legally with the smokers who bought in with the belief they would be able to get a smoking room.

I don't think they (the smoker) would have a leg on. I don't believe that any of the fine print guarantees one the right to smoke. Apparently they don't guarantee your right to a smoke-free room, either. There probably isn't a guarantee that you can have a handicapped room, either (outside of FL state laws.)

The only issue is when it makes more people happy than unhappy... and I think it's definitely getting to that point.

One thing not mentioned is that Disney has many international guests, and often smoking is more common in other parts of the world. They might get more complaints (and more difficulty enforcing) than somewhere like Disneyland, which I assume has a much higher percentage of Americans, who are more used to anti-smoking laws. Still, DVC is probably mostly Americans, it would be great to see them go smoke-free.

 

[Sammie]

This sounds WONDERFUL!!! Where is this? I'd love to stay there. Why couldn't Disney do something like this? Wouldn't something as simple as cigarette smoke alarms solve everything?

Renee all of the resorts we stay in at Destin do this. They are also very strict about occupany levels, have you sign an agreement when you check in that you are aware of the rules, about not smoking, occupancy levels, noise late at night, etc. Before you get your key you have to read it and sign it. A credit card is required to cover the possiblity of fines.

We have seen people asked to leave due to violations.

 

[Pinnie]

Here is an interesting situation that happened to us this week. On Monday we checked into a studio (1105) Congress Park at SSR. The room was fine UNTIL we went into the bathroom and that annoying fan went on. When it went on, we were able to smell cigarette smoke in the bathroom. After a few minutes the fan went off and the smell disappeared. This issue lasted until Tuesday. We checked outside to see if anyone was smoking outside the room, but no one was ever there. We have to wonder if those fans aren't allowing second hand smoke to be disapated into other rooms.

pinnie

 

[DrTomorrow]

To Chuck S: You're right, my "sniff test" comment was a bit too glib - which was sort of my point, in that verification of offenses committed is important and costly.

Renee all of the resorts we stay in at Destin do this. They are also very strict about occupany levels, have you sign an agreement when you check in that you are aware of the rules, about not smoking, occupancy levels, noise late at night, etc. Before you get your key you have to read it and sign it. A credit card is required to cover the possiblity of fines.

We have seen people asked to leave due to violations.

Sammie, I'd be quite interested in any info you have on how they enforce & verify violations. While having the TS Police catch 3 people smoking on a certain balcony is a no-brainer, interior smokers, extra people, etc. seem a little harder to deal with. Not saying I disagree (actually, I agree), but I'm always a bit worried that the cure may be worse than the disease....

 

[smjj]

When they say they have no rooms available I just don't buy it. There may not be any available for a short period of time but that about it. As large as the Disney resorts are, there is bound to be someone checking out many times a day. When we got our smoked in non-smoking room at OKW this last Nov. we complained. At first they had no rooms but when I refused to back down a manager "found" a room for us at OKW. You just have to be persistent but polite...smjj

 

[freediverdude]

Well I know I for one would definitely not want to be evacuated from the hotel in the middle of the night, just because someone smoked a cigarette in their room. I would be hopping mad. That's a horrible inconvenience. Now if there was a lot of smoke and maybe a fire, that's different, but the detector that sensitive to catch the smoke from one cigarette and trigger a building wide fire alarm and an evacuation?? I don't think so. That better not be the case, or I won't be staying at the Grand Californian.

 

[crisi]

When they say they have no rooms available I just don't buy it. There may not be any available for a short period of time but that about it. As large as the Disney resorts are, there is bound to be someone checking out many times a day. When we got our smoked in non-smoking room at OKW this last Nov. we complained. At first they had no rooms but when I refused to back down a manager "found" a room for us at OKW. You just have to be persistent but polite...smjj

At ten in the morning, I agree with you. After six or eight at night, its believable. DVC runs at a high capacity - unlike hotels where 80% is considered pretty good, DVC runs at 93-97%. A certain number of the 3-7% rooms unavailable are out of service. The remaining ones could be smoking, just like the room you are leaving. So many people HATE a smoking room (I do) that it is likely that the CMs have already made several switches during the day from people who don't find their room acceptable. And with so many people having asthma (or claiming it), its not unlikely that many of these claimed "medical." At a high capacity time, with a late check in, its believable that there is no room that suits your needs any better than the one you are in.

The next morning, when people start checking out, then it may be possible to switch again

 

[jade1]

Just reading some internet related subjects:

Florida voters overwhelmingly approved the Smoke-Free for Health constitutional amendment in November of 2002. The ban on smoking in most Florida workplaces went into effect last July.

“Protecting Floridians from the dangers of secondhand smoke has always been our number one goal,” said Marty Larsen, volunteer chairperson for Smoke-Free for Health. “The health benefits are clear but we are now seeing that what is good for health, is also good for business.”

According to a study conducted by the Bureau of Economic and Business Research at the University of Florida, the smoke-free amendment has not had a negative impact on the hotel, restaurant or tourism industries. Complete results will be released Monday by Smoke-Free for Health.


Maybe some day this will be as important as the Red Cross 78 degree swimming pool recommendation that was implemented.

 

[Sammie]

To Chuck S: You're right, my "sniff test" comment was a bit too glib - which was sort of my point, in that verification of offenses committed is important and costly.

Sammie, I'd be quite interested in any info you have on how they enforce & verify violations. While having the TS Police catch 3 people smoking on a certain balcony is a no-brainer, interior smokers, extra people, etc. seem a little harder to deal with. Not saying I disagree (actually, I agree), but I'm always a bit worried that the cure may be worse than the disease....

Some of the ways are actually very easy, housekeeping finds evidence of cigarettes in the trash cans, etc. Also neighbors have reported violators smoking on balcony, security comes and verifies it. Any violations are almost always caught in the act and not after the guest leaves.

As to occupancy, usually it has to do with too many cars for the unit, security patrols the grounds constantly and they watch for too many people coming and going, reports of excessive noise and security goes to the door and does a check. We have actually seen this happen. They were sent packing that night. Even too much garbage can be a give away. Plus security is very tight getting in the resort and out with only one gate, I truly do not think you could sneak any extra people in unless they came in the trunk.

The check in area is outside the security gate. When you check in, they specificially ask you again how many in your party. Once when checking in this man had added a guest and they gave him two options, a larger unit, or leave. They go over the agreement not to smoke, noise, occupancy levels, etc. and you sign the agreement there and agree to the fines or you don't check in. Then you are given a packet with your keys and on the outside it gives you your condo assignment and the total number in your party. Then you go to security for check in and parking pass. They count the number in your car to match your reservation. If someone in your group has not arrived, you have to leave their name, description of their vehicle, state of license plate. When they arrive they must present photo id to be admitted. Then they get their parking pass. Visitors are signed in and out with photo id.

I know to some this would be too hard nose for them, but it works at this particular resort. People who book there know this before they check in. If it does not appeal to you, then you book elsewhere. I can say we have never gotten a unit that was smoked in and no signs of burnage by cigarettes either. The units are set up very much like OKW and it is very easy to determine if too many people are coming and going on a regular basis from a unit. And Yes people do report violators.

 

[SueM in MN]

Well I know I for one would definitely not want to be evacuated from the hotel in the middle of the night, just because someone smoked a cigarette in their room. I would be hopping mad. That's a horrible inconvenience. Now if there was a lot of smoke and maybe a fire, that's different, but the detector that sensitive to catch the smoke from one cigarette and trigger a building wide fire alarm and an evacuation?? I don't think so. That better not be the case, or I won't be staying at the Grand Californian.

That detector might work in a regular hotel, but I have a feeling that a smoke detector that powerful might be going off all the time in DVC units from the cooking.
I know some don't use the decorative stove, but even something left in the microwave a bit too long or a tiny bit burnt piece of toast might set off a smoke detector that sensitive.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Here is an interesting situation that happened to us this week. On Monday we checked into a studio (1105) Congress Park at SSR. The room was fine UNTIL we went into the bathroom and that annoying fan went on. When it went on, we were able to smell cigarette smoke in the bathroom. After a few minutes the fan went off and the smell disappeared. This issue lasted until Tuesday. We checked outside to see if anyone was smoking outside the room, but no one was ever there. We have to wonder if those fans aren't allowing second hand smoke to be disapated into other rooms.

pinnie

Pinnie, it could have been that someone in another unit near you was smoking too. The bathroom vents seem to carry the smoke from unit to unit. We have had that situation at OKW in the past.

 

[Chuck S]

That detector might work in a regular hotel, but I have a feeling that a smoke detector that powerful might be going off all the time in DVC units from the cooking.
I know some don't use the decorative stove, but even something left in the microwave a bit too long or a tiny bit burnt piece of toast might set off a smoke detector that sensitive.

Nor do I think I'd want to have to evacuate my room in the middle of the night just because someone in another unit decides to light up a cigarette.