Advice from all perspectives

[2Tiggies]

I want some objective advice from all sides here.

I have planned a trip (booked) for October next year. I am a single mom and it is just DD(7) and me. This one I am doing as a total surprise. She is basically going to find out on the morning she gets up that we are going to Disney. I have therefore told no-one except for a few posts on the DIS and I am going to keep it that way. The last surprise trip in April turned out to be announced by someone accidentally months in advance and I am not having a repeat. So if I need to explain my absence, I am accepting my friend's invitation to go visit her and her new baby in Spain! (She does exist and did invite us by the way).

Now here is my dilemma:

My ex husband doesn't live in the country anymore and travels around a lot with his work. He has been to visit DD twice since he left when she was 2. A lot is to do with his work schedule and the rest, I don't think he is used to ever having her around so he thinks in an adult world. DD loves him dearly and recently asked when he is going to see her again. He then spoke to me and when he asked about our April trip, I mentioned that if he doesn't come here, we could maybe meet at WDW.

The trouble is, I have now booked this trip, haven't told him yet, but I know he will need a reasonable amount of notice for it to be a fair option to him as he is contracted out to film companies as his job and sometimes works 4 to 6 months at a time on a crazy schedule. He would need to know when he signs up for something that he is not going to be absent during it. I am just worried that if I tell him, because he speaks to his daughter so rarely that he will inadvertently announce the trip, whether he is coming or not. He is not malicious in any way at all, but the risk is very real on this one and I really don't want to ruin the surprise as this is really important to me.

The reason I am asking for input is that I need to make a decision based on DD, not on me and what I want or what her dad would like. I want to be totally objective about this and need to decide now what to do, so that I don't have to make a rash last minute decision under time pressure or obligation.

To clarify a few things that are likely to be asked, no, he would not be sharing a resort room with us, and coming from wherever he will be at the time, we will not be travelling together either. It will purely be a meet up for part of the vacation. I am keen to hear from anyone. Thanks in advance.

 

[leslie826]

If your DD has only seen him twice in 5 years and is asking to see him, I think you need to make every effort for it to happen. Just reiterate to him repeatedly that it is a surprise and hope for the best. If the surprise gets ruined, don't let it ruin your trip.

 

[MrsAlly]

So play the "what if" card - "Hay DD's Dad, if I were happen to be able to get everything together for let's say October do you think that's enough notice for you to maybe meet us there? Oh and by the way don't say anything to DD because if I'm not able to do it I would hate to break her heart" and then just figure out from there. If he says it is enough time and he's able to do it, then make it out to be a big surprise for her to see him "Wouldn't it be great if she didn't know she was going till that day, then I brought her there and you were at the airport or magic kingdom and surprised her" "You know if she knows she's going to Disney she would then ask if you were going too and we wouldn't want to break her heart either way"

Pin it all back on HIM breaking HER heart and you'll be golden - if he cares for her at all he will know and remember to keep his mouth shut the times he does talk/see her!

 

[2Tiggies]

So play the "what if" card - "Hay DD's Dad, if I were happen to be able to get everything together for let's say October do you think that's enough notice for you to maybe meet us there? Oh and by the way don't say anything to DD because if I'm not able to do it I would hate to break her heart" and then just figure out from there. If he says it is enough time and he's able to do it, then make it out to be a big surprise for her to see him "Wouldn't it be great if she didn't know she was going till that day, then I brought her there and you were at the airport or magic kingdom and surprised her" "You know if she knows she's going to Disney she would then ask if you were going too and we wouldn't want to break her heart either way"

Pin it all back on HIM breaking HER heart and you'll be golden - if he cares for her at all he will know and remember to keep his mouth shut the times he does talk/see her!

Now THAT is BRILLIANT! Thank you. I will hang in until the new year and make sure he gets at least six months or so notice and then put it to him. Still open to any other suggestions and opinions.

Yes, like the second poster said, I will make every effort for them to be together. There is no gain for anyone from being selfish or opinionated. He is a great dad - he just doesn't seem to have had the opportunities to show her what he can do! Thanks guys.

 

[happymommy]

What are the odds that if he plans it, he won't show? Is he the type that something could come up? I am asking since he's only seen her TWICE in 5 years?!

He doesn't sound like he really cares that much if he sees her or not, or he'd have been making more of an effort thus far. I would definitely communicate that she misses him, and he needs to make a visit to see her for sure.

I think that for your upcoming trip, I'd keep it as planned. Just mom and daughter time. I think that reduces the possible stress. I wouldn't even let him know about the trip.

 

[daisyduck123]

If he's only seen her twice in 5 years, I wouldn't have his 3rd time be with you and your DD on your WDW vacation together. Let him come see her some other time. Why does it need to be then?

You also mentioned that he is a great dad...if he's only seen her TWICE in five years, he's not a great dad. Keep the trip between just you and your DD. If he really wants to see her a 3rd time, let him plan it on his own.

 

[brymolmom]

Tough one and I am not in your shoes so I can't say exactly what I'd do. However, even tho you THINK you are planning the best for dd by trying to have dad there, it might actually be best for her not to have him there. Twice in 5 years isn't enough to put ANY effort in on him - ESPECIALLY on a very special vacation. What if he doesn't show and you've already ruined the surprise? THAT will surely ruin the trip. No way would I put my faith into a deadbeat dad like that on what I'm trying to make a very special trip. I would put your faith where you KNOW it can be trusted....IN YOU! The one who is ALWAYS there for dd.

Then perhaps I would go through separate plans to try to have a meet up with dad trip. SOLELY for that reason - not at WDW. Try to have him come to you - and, if not, offer to meet in the middle. Ask for when is convenient for him. Then, if that gets planned and he doesn't show - that would be the last time I would try.

I KNOW your dd really wants to see him. But perhaps its for the best that she doesn't get very close to the type of person who would choose to see his own daughter twice in 5 years. Being a parent is way more than blood...And it doesn't sound to me like he really is her dad.

 

[luvsJack]

OP, I realize you didn't actually ask anyone's opinion of your ex-husband or his abilities as a dad and I just don't believe any of us know enough to judge that.

I think its really wonderful of you to be willing to share your vacation with your ex and it would be great for your dd to see her dad. I would definitely approach him about it and then just stress that it is a secret and that you need to keep it that way so that she's not hurt if something happens. (to either your trip or his being able to be there)

You sound like a very loving mom who puts her daughter above all. I think that is great.

 

[momto2js]

I think that it is difficult to incorporate anyone that is not around your kids on a regular basis into a WDW vacation. They may not understand that the kid's interest really do run the show and if that means MK instead of HS that is what you do and that every discision has consequenses and you must, as the adult consider them. This applies to grandparents, cousins, long lost BBF, ect...

The other consideration when vacationing with another party is to consider parenting style and expectations. Touring vacations can be stressful enough without differences in these areas. It doesn't sound like you will be able to "practice" before this trip so my vote is no, WDW is not the place for a reunion.

I hope you can find somewhere else that will work for both parties.

 

[2Tiggies]

What are the odds that if he plans it, he won't show? Is he the type that something could come up? I am asking since he's only seen her TWICE in 5 years?!

He doesn't sound like he really cares that much if he sees her or not, or he'd have been making more of an effort thus far. I would definitely communicate that she misses him, and he needs to make a visit to see her for sure.

I think that for your upcoming trip, I'd keep it as planned. Just mom and daughter time. I think that reduces the possible stress. I wouldn't even let him know about the trip.

I know what you are saying and my parents have that view as well. I don't think it is that he doesn't care - just that he lives in an adult world and doesn't seem to have an understanding of family life. I just don't want him to miss out on my account. If he turns down opportunities, that is his decision. It is just that I believe it is important for me to do whatever I can within reason to foster a good relationship between them. The practicalities of actually taking up opportunities presented are up to him and I am not responsible for his decisions, but I am accountable for my own. At this stage it is a bit harder perhaps because of the child's age, she needs an adult to facilitate the interaction. This will change over time and gradually release me of much of the responsibility of "keeping them in touch", but at the moment and due to the distance factor, it is not possible for DD to do that herself just yet. Yes, there is a possibility that he won't make it over, but as he would need to book a package for the trip, he is unlikely to do so at the last minute as this would be costly, especially as he would be booking an international trip and the penalties for cancellation are pretty heavy. But this is what I wanted - different opinions so that I can look at the situation objectively. Thank you.

 

[luvsJack]

I know what you are saying and my parents have that view as well. I don't think it is that he doesn't care - just that he lives in an adult world and doesn't seem to have an understanding of family life. I just don't want him to miss out on my account. If he turns down opportunities, that is his decision. It is just that I believe it is important for me to do whatever I can within reason to foster a good relationship between them. The practicalities of actually taking up opportunities presented are up to him and I am not responsible for his decisions, but I am accountable for my own. At this stage it is a bit harder perhaps because of the child's age, she needs an adult to facilitate the interaction. This will change over time and gradually release me of much of the responsibility of "keeping them in touch", but at the moment and due to the distance factor, it is not possible for DD to do that herself just yet. Yes, there is a possibility that he won't make it over, but as he would need to book a package for the trip, he is unlikely to do so at the last minute as this would be costly, especially as he would be booking an international trip and the penalties for cancellation are pretty heavy. But this is what I wanted - different opinions so that I can look at the situation objectively. Thank you.

Just wanted to tell you that I think you are doing a good thing. I was in a similar situation while my boys were growing up. I made sure that I gave their father every opportunity to be in their lives. I never wanted to feel that I could have done something to get him there, or wanted them to think that I didn't let him come around. Whether he really wants to be there or not is not something you can change or control. But you are taking the high road by continuing to communicate and by giving him the opportunity and by letting him know he is welcome. I think that's great.

 

[2Tiggies]

Just wanted to tell you that I think you are doing a good thing. I was in a similar situation while my boys were growing up. I made sure that I gave their father every opportunity to be in their lives. I never wanted to feel that I could have done something to get him there, or wanted them to think that I didn't let him come around. Whether he really wants to be there or not is not something you can change or control. But you are taking the high road by continuing to communicate and by giving him the opportunity and by letting him know he is welcome. I think that's great.

Second post I have read by you today and second time you have made me cry. Good thing, by the way - you just made me feel good about myself. It also made me realize that this is more important to me than I thought. Thank you. I just need to do a constant check that my head and heart are each in the right place - easier said than done ....!

 

[kwitcherkicken99]

I agree with PP. Try your best to make it happen. I'd hate to be in the position that "daddy may see you at WDW" and it doesn't come true. If she believes he will be there and he doesn't show, it may complicate her relationship with him.

I'd lay it out to him that he should try his best to be there. Remind him several times not to bring it up or he owes you a REALLY big favor. Do you ever stay on the phone line when he calls? Maybe ease-drop and if he starts to mention it, do major intervention/damage control.

It's hard being in both positions (yours AND DexH), two completely different worlds. good luck.

 

[brergnat]

It is just that I believe it is important for me to do whatever I can within reason to foster a good relationship between them.

I understand that this is what YOU believe. But, if I can be honest, it is NOT up to you to establish and maintain a relationship between your child's father and your child. It is HIS responsibility, 100%. He is an adult, and he is the father. He is not in any way incapacitated, and does not need your help (as far as I know). He sounds like he has a successful career that he puts above ALL else, which is probably why you are no longer together. I hate to be so blunt, but he likely never wanted to be a father, or he is at the point in his life where he is not ready. Unfortunately, you can't take back that decision to have a child, and moms (and dads) all over the world are in your position. It's a sad reality.

It sounds to me like you are making excuses for him. It's time to stop doing that, both for your own good and your daughter's. It's best to be honest with her, even now at 7. Her father has seen her TWICE in FIVE YEARS? He doesn't give a darn about her, I'm sorry to say. Using work as an excuse is ridiculous. It's time for you to accept that he does not want to be an active part of her life and begin to move on. You seem to be on a self destructive path if you continue with this way of thinking. Your daughter deserves better. She deserves to grow up with a healthy attitude of who she is and how much she is loved by those presently in her life. If you continue trying to interfere and get your Ex involved in her life, she will simply grow up with a false idea of what a father is, and she will have issues with men for the rest of her life. It's time for you to be straight with your DD. When she asks about her father, tell her the TRUTH. Explain to her that being a good daddy is very hard for some people. And, rather than try, they get afraid and don't know what to do, so they just disappear. Reiterate that you will NEVER abandon her, and that you will always be there for her, but that her father , at this time, is not ready for the big responsibility, and rather than be a bad father, decided not to be there at all. Tell her that one day, he might be ready, but that will be his decision.

As for your trip, it's YOUR trip with your DD. Do you want him taking credit for it? If he goes, she will have it in her head that it was HIS idea to go, or to suprise her, and that is simply not the reality. Don't try to paint a perfect picture for her, because it will lead to disappointment down the road. I would actually advise against surprising her. I wonder why you are so adamant about this part of it? I'm not sure that you understand that surprises like that for a child who is in a situation like the one you are in are usually not the best thing. Kids at that age like knowing what is going to happen. Continuing to spring things on her like this will eventually lead to anxiety issues. What she needs right now is consistency from you and structure. I think it would be a ton more fun for your DD AND for you if you include her in your vacation plans. SHE is your family now. She SHOULD be included in plans for vacations, so that she can feel that she has some control and input in the situation. Continuing to surprise her with these things will do the opposite for her.

 

[Hannathy]

Now THAT is BRILLIANT! Thank you. I will hang in until the new year and make sure he gets at least six months or so notice and then put it to him. Still open to any other suggestions and opinions.

Yes, like the second poster said, I will make every effort for them to be together. There is no gain for anyone from being selfish or opinionated. He is a great dad - he just doesn't seem to have had the opportunities to show her what he can do! Thanks guys.

If you are going to tell him, Why not tell him as soon as possible. It is almost passive aggressive to wait until the last possible "But I'm doing the good thing by telling you" time. If you want him to know tell him now so he has ample time to plan, not when it is just long enough so you can pat yourself on the back for giving him the chance. Either tell him now or don't. I do like the putting the "breaking her heart" on his shoulders tho.

 

[brergnat]

I do like the putting the "breaking her heart" on his shoulders tho.

See, I find this technique to be EXTREMELY manipulative... I don't see how so many here are encouraging this type of behavior? Seriously???

 

[Hannathy]

See, I find this technique to be EXTREMELY manipulative... I don't see how so many here are encouraging this type of behavior? Seriously???

I am only advocating it as far as using it to relate to him just how serious the OP is in keeping it a secret. I don't really believe that it would break her heart UNLESS HE promises he will be there and then reneges on that.

I don't like surprise trips myself because I think the anticipation can often be sweeter than the actual trip but it is the OP's right to feel differently and to express this to the father in terms that show how much it means to her.

 

[2Tiggies]

I am only advocating it as far as using it to relate to him just how serious the OP is in keeping it a secret. I don't really believe that it would break her heart UNLESS HE promises he will be there and then reneges on that.

I don't like surprise trips myself because I think the anticipation can often be sweeter than the actual trip but it is the OP's right to feel differently and to express this to the father in terms that show how much it means to her.

You are quite right, it won't upset her if she doesn't know he is coming. Look, if it turns out that the surprise element is spoilt for whatever reason, it will not take anything away from the vacation. I decided not to involve DD in the planning this time as she finds the wait agonizing. I do get her "involved" in the planning by taking note when she mentions things she would like to try next time and discussing things with her. I keep it very general as in "when we go again". She thinks we aren't going next year but only the following year. The wanting to surpise her is just something I really want to do because my parents did it for us as kids and we loved it. They were really good at it too and somehow we never managed to find out.

If he promises to be there the idea is that it is a surpise that she sees him, unless he wishes otherwise. BUT the WDW aspect is to remain a secret so we will have to agree on where we are going to tell her that we are meeting him if he wants her to know ahead of time. However, he is not allowed to tell her anything about meeting up with her until he has booked and confirmed his plans. I am quite sure that if he is part of the surprise that he will keep the secret because by him being part of it, it will be in the forefront of his mind so he will be careful not to say anything to her. My concern is that if he is NOT part of it, he will let it slip without thinking as he is not consciously thinking about it the same way as I am. We certainly won't be spending an entire two weeks together as I do want DD and I to have some time together as well. I explained that very clearly at the outset when the conversation first came up quite some time back.

I am reading everyone's advice carefully though. I think it is great that everyone is really making such an effort to help. Thank you again.

 

[luvsJack]

Second post I have read by you today and second time you have made me cry. Good thing, by the way - you just made me feel good about myself. It also made me realize that this is more important to me than I thought. Thank you. I just need to do a constant check that my head and heart are each in the right place - easier said than done ....!

You are most welcome. And I do believe your head and heart to be in the right place.

From my own experience, if your ex chooses not to come around (whether on the trip or at all); your daughter will figure it all out on her own soon enough. She will know who was there for her and who was not, but maybe by your example she will not start to resent him or anything; but just be accepting of who he is and how he chooses to live his life.