Advice: Class punishments

[123SA]

Ugghh -- long rant ahead

What do you all do about punishments for the whole class? Does this happen in your schools? DD is in 3rd grade at a Catholic school. The art teacher is sort of a friend of mine -- my younger kids and hers are the same age, we live near each other, attend the same events, have friends in common, but we are not really friends outside of that. She is not a teacher by training. She has had trouble with this class since Kindergarten. She has stated her dislike of them -- the boys especially. So today DD tells me that kid A and kid B wouldn't stop talking, so they all have look up some artist that begins with a P and write an essay or report on him (she doesn't know the name of the artist) and print out some pictures of his work. DD said the teacher said, if one of you gets punished, then you all do and if it is not turned in you'll get a zero on your report card. I have no written information. In addition, I overheard my godson who is in 8th grade, ask DD what was going on in art class today -- why was the teacher "freaking out" I asked him what he meant and he said that she was screaming at them so loudly that the kids in the cafeteria all got quiet. I talked to 3 other parents whose children gave basically the same story.

Now I know the easy thing to do would be to find out the artist's name and just do it myself. But I really don't want to. Everyone, including the teacher, knew who was causing the problems. Why should I have to spend a hour or so doing this? She told the kids to just "google it" -- who lets their 3rd grader google things on their own? Therefore, this is now a punishment for me.

So I wrote her note. I said that my DD will not do the punishment. I don't have the info and she is not allowed on the internet by herself. I said 3rd grade already has assignments to be completed on each of the next 3 weekends. I asked her to call me to set up a meeting if her behavior is an issue and then if a punishment is warranted we'll deal with it after the other assignments. In addition to just not wanting to do this, I honestly don't have the time.

I know my child is not perfect. But I also know that if she was being difficult in class, this woman would have no problem telling me -- as loudly and publicly as possible. I've seen her embarrass other parents that way. Based on that, I'm pretty sure DD was not part of the problem.

I really dislike group punishments, the screaming has to got to stop and telling the kids to use the internet on their own is inappropriate. If I didn't know her, I'd just stop by the principal's office and ask her to figure out what is going on.

Maybe in the morning I'll feel less irritated about this.

 

[MomOf2DisneyKids]

ooh, that's a tricky situation, since you are kind of friends with her.
But, I agree, that punishment was not fair to give to the whole class and yes, the screaming does have to stop!! No real advice here, just good luck that it works out, and please keep us posted!!

 

[DisneyIsTerrific]

That's definitely not appropriate behavior on the part of the teacher. Screaming at the kids should just not be done. On the group punishment, I think you handled it appropriately with the note. Only the 2 kids who were involved should have to do the punishment and it especially should not affect the grades of the entire class!!! If your note doesn't do the trick, though, you should go to the principal even if the teacher is somewhat of a friend.

 

[Lisa]

I agree, I would call the school too to talk to the principal to find out what heinous things (i am being sarcastic here) your daughter's art class is doing that warrants the teacher to scream so loud that children in the cafeteria can hear it. The principal needs to be aware that the art teacher is not in a postition to work with the class in a professional manner.

 

[123SA]

Thanks. I think I will call this morning.

 

[PrincessNancy96]

Susan:

I would definitely be sitting up a meeting.. friends or not friends that is no way for a teacher to behave.. They are role models and example setters. KWIM?

I'm also one that would have written a note...and requested a meeting and DD would NOT have done that homework. Especially if we know who the instigators are. They should have been dealt w/ directly.

If you don't feel you are getting anywhere with the teacher; take the next step.

I know we are dealing w/ a teacher know who really does NOT have a passion nor desire to teach...and she is teaching ALGEBRA.. WE spend more time reteaching the class every night than we should..but one thing is.. our kids are understanding it... since we have been reteaching the class...

ETA: and the threat for the grade of a "O" for not completing the assignment.. so would NOT fly here...

 

[Kim1964]

I agree with everyone else....call the principal. Besides reporting the teacher's behavior, the principal should be aware that there will be a battle if your child gets a 0 on her report card for not completing the inappropriate punishment.

 

[Raenstoirm]

As someone who has worked in education, screaming at all is unacceptable, however group punishment works wonders. For example, kid A and B are misbehaving (something small the teacher has not noticed yet). The other kids in the class will put pressure on those kids to stop so they don't have to be punished also, a sort of group policing. At that age peer pressure is very strong. Most of the time the troublemaker is just trying to get attention from the teacher or other students and this type of large negative atttention is not what he/she had in mind. They usually think they are being funny. If you are dealing with a truly "bad kid" (I have only met 2 in my career and both came from troubled homes) then the teacher should notice this and deal with him/her differently.

As for Google, most 8 year olds do have rather unrestricted access at this point, so the teacher thought nothing of that. If the Internet is good at that age is another story.

 

[ddavis860]

Both mine and my DsS are from Catholic schools, so I do have some knowledge of this. We always had good luck when the principal was made aware, and became involved, when there was a teacher issue. It made for accountability on the teacher's part...and I'm sure you won't be the only parent that calls. We used to talk in the parking lot about the teachers, and there were always other parents calling in when there was in issue.

As for the whole class punishments, those were usually done during class...like sitting 10 min in quiet, or a pop quiz, or no recess...those were immediate punishments, and the other kids suffered IN FRONT of the troublemakers, and it was always very effective. I had no problem with those, as there has to be discipline.

Not sure what to say about the google thing, as I was always very permissive with my kids, but there wasn't any internet in my house when they were that age...so I'm no help there... but the extra homework thing just seems pointless to me at that age. Just MHO.

 

[123SA]

Well, I can see your point and this is not meant as argumentative. From the parent's point of view, this is a punishment for me. I can't reprimand my child for something she didn't do and I can't ask her to put pressure on another child. An in class punishment in my opinion would be better -- perhaps they have to write in class instead of participating in a fun art project.

As for google, here is a funny story that illustrates why I don't let my 8 yr old you use it unattended. In college, my sister's favorite group was the Barenaked Ladies -- she googled it. What do you think popped up? Even the most innocent of searches can result in not so innocent results!

 

[PrincessNancy96]

AMEN w/ google...

I don't let me kids google either.. I google what they tell me too and than weed out the CRAP!!! My teenagers I still watch...but I"m sure they have googled w/o me knowing...good thing we have a tracer on our system so we know where our kids have gone!!!

 

[ddavis860]

In college, my sister's favorite group was the Barenaked Ladies -- she googled it. What do you think popped up? Even the most innocent of searches can result in not so innocent results!

OH!! That is just too funny!!!

I guess the google thing is a mine field when you think about it! My mom used to say that she was glad she didn't "have to raise kids now-a-days", and I'm thinking I feel the same for you mommies of young kids!

 

[vanyel]

Well, I can see your point and this is not meant as argumentative. From the parent's point of view, this is a punishment for me. I can't reprimand my child for something she didn't do and I can't ask her to put pressure on another child. An in class punishment in my opinion would be better -- perhaps they have to write in class instead of participating in a fun art project.

As for google, here is a funny story that illustrates why I don't let my 8 yr old you use it unattended. In college, my sister's favorite group was the Barenaked Ladies -- she googled it. What do you think popped up? Even the most innocent of searches can result in not so innocent results!

OT in a way - I googled Dantes Exams once - and if you notice that the last s in Dantes and the ex in exams - guess what came up, and this was at work!

Though my kids are now older - I would have been upset too.

 

[dzorn]

As someone who has worked in education, screaming at all is unacceptable, however group punishment works wonders. For example, kid A and B are misbehaving (something small the teacher has not noticed yet). The other kids in the class will put pressure on those kids to stop so they don't have to be punished also, a sort of group policing. At that age peer pressure is very strong. Most of the time the troublemaker is just trying to get attention from the teacher or other students and this type of large negative atttention is not what he/she had in mind. They usually think they are being funny. If you are dealing with a truly "bad kid" (I have only met 2 in my career and both came from troubled homes) then the teacher should notice this and deal with him/her differently.

As for Google, most 8 year olds do have rather unrestricted access at this point, so the teacher thought nothing of that. If the Internet is good at that age is another story.

Well I teach my children not to cave to peer pressure I don't think encouraging it is a great thing. Last week DD came home upset because she could not handle the pressure. She was very dramatic with her announcement of it. Other kids were writing on themselves with marker and she would not because she knew it was wrong. We let her know how proud of her we were for doing the right thing and not listening to her peers.

Denise in MI

 

[tiggermei]

Can't speak on the class punishment but as the parent of a third grader, I completely sympathize (heck, even empathize) with you on the fact that it's punishing YOU! I'm so tired of third grade I could scream!!!!

I agree 100% on the Google thing. My DD got on complete restriction for doing just that - and she only got to a You Tube video of "What's That?" from Nightmare Before Christmas. She is out of the room when I Google things. All too often, XXX rated stuff shows up on accident. She's also not allowed in the room when I go on Facebook or other sites that I don't know are family friendly. I also look up new websites for her first time. If you mistype or type .com instead of .org (etc.) you can end up all kinds of places (my mom did a look up for the President's home with a dot com instead of gov sometime and saw WAY more than she wanted to see) - and all she wanted to do was send a note of complaint for some policy decision . At eight, I'm not ready for quite THAT talk. We're still on how bodies change.

Good luck. I hope this works out. I'm sure it will. Zero on a report card for refusing to be punished for something you didn't do wouldn't fly for me.

 

[rlovew]

As a former 3rd grade teacher I think the extra work is harsh. I again concur that screaming at a class won't help the problem. I think having the class do a research project in class (go to the library and make them use books if needed) is a great way to continue art while making it less fun for the kids. I also know that sometimes no matter who started things almost everyone got involved if i didn't have a handle on it right away (and without having a teaching degree that can be harder to do).

I did have my students regularly use the internet to search at school but we had a very high filter and used a kid friendly search site (yahooligans is one of them).

 

[Raenstoirm]

(my mom did a look up for the President's home with a dot com instead of gov sometime and saw WAY more than she wanted to see) - and all she wanted to do was send a note of complaint for some policy decision . At eight, I'm not ready for quite THAT talk. We're still on how bodies change.

I have done this myself before! I think almost every teen has come across this "issue" researching for a project.