Adobe CS5

[MarkBarbieri]

It's out. I put in a pre-order. It won't ship until the 29th.

From a photography standpoint, it doesn't look revolutionary to me. It's got a cool looking feature for removing elements from pictures (probably really handy for anyone recently divorced). As in CS4, Lightroom has been left out of the suites. They've improved HDR, but will it be as good as Photomatix (or at least close enough)? It has a weird Puppet Morph feature that allows you to morph the shape of objects in your picture. They finally have a 64-bit version for the Mac. It does lens corrections.

I think the upgrade to Premiere is a bigger deal. They've got a new rendering engine that, matched with a supported video card, can finally handle AVCHD well without transcoding.

Audition is also still left out of the suites. They're sticking with Soundbooth. The latter is generally panned in all of the audio stuff I've read because it is extremely dumbed down. Personally, I get so lost in all of the options in Audition that I find Soundbooth a better fit. So I guess their plan to have it be a sound package for people that don't know sound works relatively well.

 

[Gdad]

I skipped CS4 but it looks like I can upgrade straight from CS3 to CS5 for $199 so I probably will go ahead and jump onboard before too long. Good HDR processing would be nice- I have a bunch of bracketed shots I could go revisit.

 

[ssanders79]

Here is a good video from Terry White's blog showing some of the new features.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfkjHnsAsvg&feature=player_embedded

I am excited to play with the noise reduction component of ACR.

 

[GrillMouster]

For those with CS3 (or lower) looking to upgrade to CS5, you might want to see if Adobe is doing the "Post Announcement Upgrade" like they've done with all the past releases.

The way it would work is that if you buy CS4 during after Adobe announces CS5 (but before CS5 is actually released), you will get a free upgrade to CS5. All you have to do is call Adobe and fax them proof of purchase and pay something like $5 for shipping.

I took advantage of this promotion when I upgraded to CS3 and it saved me a lot of money, because I was able to buy a a very cheap CS2 upgrade on Amazon right before CS3 was released. I think I was even able to get an additional refund from Amazon when they dropped their price on CS2 30 days after my purchase (but Amazon no longer offers that price guarantee).

 

[disneyboy2003]

Sounds like you can purchase the "upgrade" version of CS5 if you have CS2, CS3 or CS4. If you've got an older version of Photoshop (ex. Photoshop CS or earlier), then you can't "upgrade". Instead, you'll have to shell out the big bucks to buy the full version.

There are a whole bunch of features in CS5 that I'm really excited about. Sounds like HDR is tons better in CS5 compared to earlier versions. It's apparently comparable or better than Photomatix Pro for HDR processing!

Content Aware Fill is HUGE! For the first time, you can select an area in your photo, and Photoshop will *automatically* remove the unwanted object(s) in that photo and fill it in automatically.

Noise Reduction in also significantly improved in Camera RAW (which is part of Photoshop). Because Camera RAW uses the same processing engine as the upcoming Lightroom 3, you may have already read all the glowing reviews of its new noise reduction algorithm. Apparently, it's so good that you might not need any other noise reduction software (like Noise Ninja, Neat Image, etc).

Selections are supposed to be better and more accurate, too, with the new Refine Edge tool. This should help with all those difficult selections, like strands of hair.

The Lens Correction feature now includes a whole bunch of lens profiles, which is basically combinations of different cameras + different lenses. This should help optimize distortion correction, chromatic aberration, and vignetting for any particular photo.

I don't have 64-bit or a quad-core processor, but Photoshop CS5 can now take advantage of these for a faster and more powerful work experience.

Just a few things to look forward to in CS5.

 

[Code]

Noise Reduction in also significantly improved in Camera RAW (which is part of Photoshop). Because Camera RAW uses the same processing engine as the upcoming Lightroom 3, you may have already read all the glowing reviews of its new noise reduction algorithm. Apparently, it's so good that you might not need any other noise reduction software (like Noise Ninja, Neat Image, etc).

Yep, it's that good. I've stopped using Noise Ninja because of LR3b2's much improved NR.

 

[WDWFigment]

After watching a couple videos, I'm a little concerned about the Content Aware Fill and other tools. It just seems like they might too easily allow for the manufacturing of a "great" picture, and blur the line between photography and graphic design even further. I think the tools will also enhance Photoshop's crutch-factor, making people shrug off actually learning the fundamentals of photography because they can fix it after the fact with PS.

I know Photoshop has allowed substantive alteration of photos for years with the clone stamp tool, etc., but this seems to take it more than just a step further.

These features will be great used judiciously, and I know that's how most people will use the tools, but the problem is that there will be plenty others who will abuse them, and those folks will draw scrutiny to other photographers, with more people in the general public wondering if the photo is "real" or "photoshopped".

 

[Gdad]

Yep, it's that good. I've stopped using Noise Ninja because of LR3b2's much improved NR.

Really? Wow- not to derail this thread but I would love to see a side-by-side comparrison if it is really that good.

 

[WDWFigment]

Really? Wow- not to derail this thread but I would love to see a side-by-side comparrison if it is really that good.

I know he's pretty busy with the whole "triplets" thing, so if he can't get anything posted by tonight, I will. Overall, I am really impressed by LR3 Beta 2, but I still doubt I'll buy it. Just isn't one of those things in the budget right now.

 

[Gdad]

I know he's pretty busy with the whole "triplets" thing, so if he can't get anything posted by tonight, I will. Overall, I am really impressed by LR3 Beta 2, but I still doubt I'll buy it. Just isn't one of those things in the budget right now.

Thanks-

Did you ever use Lightroom 2? I've been wondering if it's a big improvement over that.

 

[photo_chick]

After watching a couple videos, I'm a little concerned about the Content Aware Fill and other tools. It just seems like they might too easily allow for the manufacturing of a "great" picture, and blur the line between photography and graphic design even further. I think the tools will also enhance Photoshop's crutch-factor, making people shrug off actually learning the fundamentals of photography because they can fix it after the fact with PS.

People already think they can be professional photographers simply because they own a DSLR and can use it on auto. Many don't bother to learn anything about the technical aspects of photography. Then they blame when they get bad images on the camera.

I don't think the content fill tool will change that or add to it. Hubbie showed it to me a few weeks ago and I was impressed. I can see the practical applications. And I don't think it will be used to manufacture images any more than photoshop already has been. And in the end it takes some skill to use those tools effectively and that in and of it's self is something to consider.

There is a line between the purists and those who embrace the editing, so to speak. And I think there is a place for both.

I'm not overly excited about CS5, but it's more because I fall into the purist camp and really don't do a lot of heavy editing to my images. Though my husband, who is my design guru, is very excited about it.

And I'm still not sold on LR3's noise reduction. Yes, it's way better than LR2, but it's not quite good enough to get me to dump Noise Ninja.

 

[WDWFigment]

Thanks-

Did you ever use Lightroom 2? I've been wondering if it's a big improvement over that.

No, I never used LR2. The only reason I'm using this is because it's in Beta until the end of June, and I figure why not try it for free now to see if it'd be something I'm really interested in purchasing. While it does have a lot of great features, I keep find myself going back to Bridge, just because that is what I'm used to. I open up almost every single image I post online in Photoshop, anyway, so having all of the fine tuned controls in LR might be a bit superfluous for me. Now, if I were doing weddings or some other sort of commercial work where batch processing were really necessary, I'd buy LR in a heartbeat.

Also, I don't think it was mentioned here, but for educators/students, CS5 is $199.

Okay, on with the comparison shots. Not the greatest shots in the world, but I thought they could benefit from noise reduction the most. First is Noise Ninja:

Lightroom 3:

 

[GoofyontheHiSeas]

Thanks-

Did you ever use Lightroom 2? I've been wondering if it's a big improvement over that.

Since Tom compared Noise Ninja, I will show you the differences between LR2 and LR3b2. Like Tom, this is not a great shot just trying to illustrate the differences. (P.S. don't tell my DSIL that I am using this picture).

100% crop out of the camera ISO 6400

The best I could do with LR 2 noise reduction.

LR3 beta 2

 

[Bstanley]

Also, I don't think it was mentioned here, but for educators/students, CS5 is $199.

!

Now I'm getting interested - at $500 it's beyond my reach (upgrade price for those of us with PSE).

I wonder if Junior High Counselors (my wife) are considered educators by Adobe? I guess I'll need to go look


Added: Yes they are! From the Adobe Education store FAQ:

Teacher and staff employed by an accredited primary or secondary school, or public or private university or college.

It's true, reading posts on the Photography Board is an expensive habit...

 

[MarkBarbieri]

The student discount is great. When CS4 came out, my 2nd grader took a surprisng interest in the CS4 Master Collection. Fortunately for me, he wanted it on my computer because it performs better. You wouldn't think that they'd sell the master edition to 2nd graders, but they did. Maybe it was because he had all As on the report card that I sent as proof of studentness.

As for NR, I'm thrilled that it has improved. It was nearly useless in LR2. You'll still want addtional NR capability though. Like sharpening, NR is best if you apply it differentially in your picture. You might be really agressive with it in the sky, more moderate on faces, and very light on patterned fabrics. That's easy to do with layers in PS and not possible (unless they added an NR brush) in LR.

After watching a couple videos, I'm a little concerned about the Content Aware Fill and other tools. It just seems like they might too easily allow for the manufacturing of a "great" picture, and blur the line between photography and graphic design even further. I think the tools will also enhance Photoshop's crutch-factor, making people shrug off actually learning the fundamentals of photography because they can fix it after the fact with PS.

Maybe I'll feel differently after I've used it, but I don't see the content aware stuff as that big. I think It just simplifies the use of the cloning tool. I don't think it will cause a sea change in "manufactured" pictures. I've heard that concern raised just about every time photo tools change and the reality is never really that dramatic.

There have been great philosophical debates as to what you should or shouldn't do with pictures. I'm of the school that nothing is "pure", so don't get too fussy about "untouched" pictures. Is cloning out a piece of litter "cheating"? More so than just picking it up before you shoot? Or composing around it?

 

[WDWFigment]

As for NR, I'm thrilled that it has improved. It was nearly useless in LR2. You'll still want addtional NR capability though. Like sharpening, NR is best if you apply it differentially in your picture. You might be really agressive with it in the sky, more moderate on faces, and very light on patterned fabrics. That's easy to do with layers in PS and not possible (unless they added an NR brush) in LR.

Maybe I'll feel differently after I've used it, but I don't see the content aware stuff as that big. I think It just simplifies the use of the cloning tool. I don't think it will cause a sea change in "manufactured" pictures. I've heard that concern raised just about every time photo tools change and the reality is never really that dramatic.

There have been great philosophical debates as to what you should or shouldn't do with pictures. I'm of the school that nothing is "pure", so don't get too fussy about "untouched" pictures. Is cloning out a piece of litter "cheating"? More so than just picking it up before you shoot? Or composing around it?

With regard to noise reduction, that's why I like my noise ninja plugin in photoshop. I can create multiple layers, masking so that portions of the image are sharpened while other portions have NR applied.

In response to the philosophical debate, I guess the jury will be out until I actually use it myself. When I saw those videos, it looked to me like it went way beyond the clone tool (at least my abilities with it!), but then again, I wouldn't be surprised if Adobe carefully chose the pictures it used to make it seem like the abilities of the tool would be really powerful.

I am not a purist who wants totally undoctored pictures, and I am fine with every tool in CS3, so I wouldn't be surprised if my initial reaction is wrong. It just seems like a lot right now. In the long term, you're probably right.

 

[GrillMouster]

With regard to noise reduction (NR), I agree that with what I've seen in Lightroom 3 beta 2 (LR3b2), there's no need for a third-party NR plug-in. The NR from LR3b2 is in Photoshop CS5 (PS CS5). You can import the image as a Smart Object on two layer, applying the new & improved NR in ACR to one layer and a layer mask to selectively paint in NR. Heck, as long as you've got LR3 you don't even need PS CS5 to do this; just apply NR in LR3, export that as a layer into any version of PS and use a layer mask to paint in the NR.

As for content aware fill, the original demos that Adobe released looked so amazing because the images they used were relatively simple. In other online videos I've seen since the CS5 announcement from other (non-adobe) professionals, the results are not perfect. Ray Prevost, a photographer who does workshops on photo retouching, showed a series of exclusive videos on another forum, using real-world examples. He was generally enthusiastic about it, especially its speed, but often times the results were not ideal the first time around. There was very noticeable repetition, artifacts, etc that still needed to be corrected. So, it's not a panacea.