ADHD & a 504 plan???

[quentina]

I hate to make this suggestion...but I'm going there anyway.

If you do not feel that the school is honoring the 504 plan - get a lawyer.

Flame away. I don't care.

A lawyer will be able to represent YOU. The school is supposed to do what is right. Unfortunately, the school will push to do what is convenient for them. You need an advocate for you and your daughter.

I personally do not need experience in this type of situation, but my sister/nephew benefitted greated from the intervention of a lawyer, in an ADHD-related matter.

Once the attorney was involved...THEN (and only then) did the school district take my sister's concerns seriously related to her 504 concerns.

Good Luck!!!!!

I agree....my kinds had child advocacy lawyers assigned to them as they were adopted through foster care. My daughter has serious delays and they would not let me have her repeat a grade (due to no child left behind). I got the lawyer to write a letter.....all of a sudden, that law no longer mattered. I would not hesitate to use the lawyer again (after I tried to be successful on my own).

 

[JoiseyMom]

I paraphrased your update. I am so glad to hear that you've got someone in your corner who is knowledgable on this topic, as it relates to the laws. (In which case - I retract my "lawyer up" comment" from an earlier post.

Which leads me right into - the school wants to do what is easiest for them...Sad but true, in many school districts.

You are so right! DD bff parents had to get an attorney to get their DD into a program that would meet her needs. The school district said she could learn fine mainstream (she couldn't). She made it until midd le school, and there was no way she would be able to handle that.

The lawyer forced them to bring in another doctor who was able to get her DD into a school that is meeting her needs.

OP - my DD was on meds until middle school, when they stopped working. She has a 504, but thankfully we haven't had too many issues. DD just started HS and the child study team there is very different, and I don't want to get bashed, but the teachers seem not to give a carp!

DD texted me last week after an English midterm, saying she had 3 questions left, and told her teacher she wasn't finished (her 504 states extra testing time when needed) and her teacher took her paper anyway. As a side note, the class time wasn't over yet, so it wasn't like DD had to go to another class.

I emailed her guidance counselor, and the next day DD got to finish the test. IT took her 3 mintues, and her teacher was annoyed at DD!! She was annoyed that DD told her mother and not her. She told the teacher she wasn't finished! It is not up to my DD to tell her teacher that she has a 504 in a classroom with other students listening. DD felt it was no ones business but hers. It is obvious the teacher got a reprimand for violating DD 504.

It can be very frustrating. Good Luck OP!!!

 

[Liberty Belle]

My son has ADHD, SID, and Anxiety and has a 504 for it. Fat lot of good it does.

His reading group was switched to a different teacher on Monday. They said they told him on Friday, but he doesn't remember. He has a hard time with changes and transitions, so of course he had a meltdown on Monday. Didn't do so well on Tuesday, either. My husband asked the teacher if she read and implemented his 504...she didn't even know he had one.

It's pretty much a joke. Barely anything is followed in it. I don't want to be seen as a pain in the butt mother, but I'm getting really tired of it.

 

[Liberty Belle]

[QUOTE="Got Disney";39859910]Is she in therapy?




WOW!!!! that is extreme! Have you tryed Vyvanse as a medicine yet???? is works great for my son. How old is she? Your daughter has a chemical imbalance but seems that they want to treat her as if she is a criminal.

Sounds to me that you need to go to the superintendent of the school district. Does this school not have a special education dept within it...and does she have an IEP? sounds like that may be what you need.....also are you sure she has ADHD and not Bipolar...they mimic each other a great deal and many kids are misdiagnosed with ADHD when it is really Bipolar......if she is Bipolar than the treatment will be different. I would check that out if you have not yet and that may be where your problem lies. Still treatable but with a whole different kind of meds.

I would not put her in that school. Again how old is she?[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately that is not uncommon. I'm a para (who is currently out of work) and I've heard so many teachers claim they don't believe a child really has ADHD - he's just "bad" or a product of bad parenting. It's sad.

 

[JoiseyMom]

Unfortunately that is not uncommon. I'm a para (who is currently out of work) and I've heard so many teachers claim they don't believe a child really has ADHD - he's just "bad" or a product of bad parenting. It's sad.

You are so right. We have known our DS9 has had ADHD since he was a toddler. His nursery teacher pulled me aside and gave me a heads up (he was 3 at the time) and said to be careful with him in regular school, that they are going to want to label him as a behavior problem. We started medicating him when he was 5 1/2 (mid way through private kindergarten).

When I registered him for 1st grade, I went to the school to make sure that he was placed correctly. They observed him in his private school, and he was placed in an awesome class for first grade. He was evaluated by the child study team and currently has an IEP in place. He is currently in 4th grade and our only blip was 2nd grade. OMG what a nightmare, the teacher was not equipped for a special needs child and niether was the resource room teacher. Even the child study team turned on us. Thankfully he was redistricted and the new school has a much better team!

There is something wrong with a teacher who writes on a childs report card that he would do so much better if he could only behave! Umm...did you read his IEP? DO you know what ADHD means??

Every new school year, we hold our breathe until we find out aobut the new teacher. 3rd and 4th grades were/are awesome. So I keep on being hopeful!

 

[Liberty Belle]

You are so right. We have known our DS9 has had ADHD since he was a toddler. His nursery teacher pulled me aside and gave me a heads up (he was 3 at the time) and said to be careful with him in regular school, that they are going to want to label him as a behavior problem. We started medicating him when he was 5 1/2 (mid way through private kindergarten).

When I registered him for 1st grade, I went to the school to make sure that he was placed correctly. They observed him in his private school, and he was placed in an awesome class for first grade. He was evaluated by the child study team and currently has an IEP in place. He is currently in 4th grade and our only blip was 2nd grade. OMG what a nightmare, the teacher was not equipped for a special needs child and niether was the resource room teacher. Even the child study team turned on us. Thankfully he was redistricted and the new school has a much better team!

There is something wrong with a teacher who writes on a childs report card that he would do so much better if he could only behave! Umm...did you read his IEP? DO you know what ADHD means??

Every new school year, we hold our breathe until we find out aobut the new teacher. 3rd and 4th grades were/are awesome. So I keep on being hopeful!

I'd like to ask most of them that. I am so sick and tired of hearing that he/we are using ADHD to excuse his behaviors. I suppose if he had uncontrollable coughing due to pneumonia, we'd be using the pneumonia as an excuse as well.

Besides we and he do not use it as an excuse, but as an explanation. He knows he stills has to work at controlling the behaviors, but give the kid some slack. It's funny how in the 504 meeting they did not object to any of our recommendations on how he should be accommodated (according to his therapist), yet outside of the meeting they do not give him these accommodations and then act like he's a horrible child because he's not behaving like a typical child without ADHD (and SID).

 

[Queen2PrincessG]

With puberty comes med changes. If she has a 504 or IEP it is on the teachers to accommodate her. maybe the setting is the only one they have for her but it's not appropriate for her. If she isn't a behavioral issues she should not be placed in an unsafe project.

Does her IEP or 504 allow for frequent breaks? Can you get her an aide?
ADHD can go either way but I think a IEP would help more than a 504. Good Luck and yes, know your rights. You can reject the setting it is within your right and they can't just place her in a separate setting without permission fro you.

 

[Piglets Mommy]

OP, Good luck to you! I agree with others, don't let them place her in an alternative school! What you are describing doesn't even qualify to me as a behavior problem even in a child without ADHD. Hitting, bullying, threatening students/staff and vandalism would be behavior problems....coming unprepared for class??? Not so much. If there isn't a 504 plan in place for her, definately get one. Did she have one in Elementary, but it didn't carry over to middle school?

Unfortunately that is not uncommon. I'm a para (who is currently out of work) and I've heard so many teachers claim they don't believe a child really has ADHD - he's just "bad" or a product of bad parenting. It's sad.

That frustrates me to no end. I have 2 kids...DS 11 is ADHD and VERY unorganized, forgetful, struggles to sit still, struggles in school, etc. DD7 is completely the opposite...EXTREMELY organized, LOVES school, long attention span, etc. If this was a "parenting issue" as I have heard from so many people, then I doubt this would be that case...and I have seen similar stituations in many families.

On another note it is interesting to read about puberty affecting the meds. DS 11 is on Strattera and has been since 2nd grade.....was doing great until about Nov. of this year, and I am seeing more of the old behaviors coming back. He IS definately in a growth spurt, sstarting to get a tiny bit of facial hair, etc. I wonder if this is part of why he seems to not be doing as well? He needs a non-stimulant medication, as there is a genetic heart condition in DH's family.

 

[wvjules]

I'm confused. If she doesn't have a 504 plan then how can the school get in trouble for not following one?

You said she hasn't been evaluated since she started middle school. Have you requested an evaluation?

If there is no 504 plan and no evaluation done I think the school is treating her like she is a troubled/bad kid. Get the evaluation and go from there. I don't see how the school is in the wrong with this...yet. If they have ignored a 504 or refused an evaluation I can see an issue but from what I've read neither of those have happened.

 

[leight]

Not to steal the thread but I have dd10's first appt with a pediatric neurologist scheduled later this month. She's drifted thru the school system because she's generally not a behavior problem but now in 5th grade she's falling so far behind and getting so discouraged because she continously gets 'behavior indicators' for forgetting to get something signed, bringing the right papers to another class, forgetting hw. I've tried working with the teachers to provide prompts and reminders but I keep hearing how she has to be responsible. The past 3 yrs since we entered this school I've asked for her to be tested. She was tested the prior year and I was told in 3rd and 4th grade that it has to be more than 18months between testing. This year I ask again only to find out that she was never tested- just screened! No one bothered to check her file. And frankly, I didn't know the difference. So I thought ok, now test her. Except that now they no longer test. THey try interventions. So she is on her 2nd 9wk period of doing online computer learning-which takes her away from other classwork and is another problem in the mix. So I scheduled a ADHD evaluation since the school will not do anything else. She is probably ADD- the questionnaires we completed lean that way. What should I expect from the appt w/ the neurologist? How else can I help her?

 

[Liberty Belle]

ARRGGGG!

I am beyond frustrated right now. Just what the hell do these teachers think ADHD and SID mean?!

I posted on the disAbilities board about it: http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?p=39918984#post39918984

 

[ksjayhawks]

OP--I have a feeling that there is more going on. If she is disrupting the classes on a daily basis with her inattention, not turning in work or bringing supplies, she may need more help than can be provided in the normal classroom setting and that is why they are looking at the alternative setting. It sounds like she may need to be at a place for children with behavioral problems, so that they can help her to get back on track. These placements are not always permanent.

These places are not all bad. I teach in a building that is half alternative high school (my side) and half behavioral disorders. The BD side does wonders with kids, the numbers are smaller so they can work more with each student, they have less teachers to deal with on a daily basis, they have a behaviorial plan in place for each individual student with appropriate consequences, they work very hard to try and transistion the student back into the "normal" school setting.


Work you way up the channels. I would go meet with the principal and ask to see any SIT notes--any notes that show interventions that they have tried so far--as well as any referral notes and forms. Ask what help she can be given at this school. If possible, ask that a school psychologist and a special education representative be there as well. I would request an evaluation and push to get a 504 plan in place.

I have several friends who are going through a similar scenario with their children right now. The decision to move schools is not made lightly and on a whim. There is usually a lot of documentation with the decision made in what is best for the child. It just may be, even with a 504 in place, that the alternative placement is the best setting for her at this point in her life.

 

[rie'smom]

OP--I have a feeling that there is more going on. If she is disrupting the classes on a daily basis with her inattention, not turning in work or bringing supplies, she may need more help than can be provided in the normal classroom setting and that is why they are looking at the alternative setting. It sounds like she may need to be at a place for children with behavioral problems, so that they can help her to get back on track. These placements are not always permanent.

These places are not all bad. I teach in a building that is half alternative high school (my side) and half behavioral disorders. The BD side does wonders with kids, the numbers are smaller so they can work more with each student, they have less teachers to deal with on a daily basis, they have a behaviorial plan in place for each individual student with appropriate consequences, they work very hard to try and transistion the student back into the "normal" school setting.


Work you way up the channels. I would go meet with the principal and ask to see any SIT notes--any notes that show interventions that they have tried so far--as well as any referral notes and forms. Ask what help she can be given at this school. If possible, ask that a school psychologist and a special education representative be there as well. I would request an evaluation and push to get a 504 plan in place.

I have several friends who are going through a similar scenario with their children right now. The decision to move schools is not made lightly and on a whim. There is usually a lot of documentation with the decision made in what is best for the child. It just may be, even with a 504 in place, that the alternative placement is the best setting for her at this point in her life.

That may be true but it sure as heck is noted and can be an automatic black mark against her if and when she goes back to regular school. I went through a time in grade school when I forgot my things and guess what? It was hormonal because after I started my period, forgetting things stopped. I am not happy with the turn schools are taking. A child being sent to an alternative school because they forget things? Bull hookey
The schools complain because parents are pulling their kids out left and right and this is a prime example of why this is happening. Not all kids are perfect A+ students but it seems that these are the only kinds of kids schools want.

 

[MrsPete]

We're missing quite a few details here, and without them we can't have opinions on this topic:

First, why does she have a 504 instead of an IEP? The IEP is for students with serious documented learning problems -- and it sounds like your daughter fits into this category. THe 504 is a less -- I want to say less binding, but that's not right -- less stringent, maybe? document. That's still not the right word; 504 instructions are not optional, but they are for students whose learning issues are more temporary in nature -- they might be written for a student whose parents are going through a divorce, and he's having a tough time this year but will probably be fine by next year. 504s are written for students who need to be seated at the front of the class, but who don't need extra time or other typical special help. 504s are for students who can't see well and need to have a special large-print textbook and large-print tests, but who don't need other help. In short, 504s are for small issues, while IEPs are for big problems. Students with IEPs also have a case worker in the Special Ed department, while those with 504s do not.

Next, what details does the 504 plan include? For example, given the things you've mentioned, I'd think that it might include permission to keep her materials in a spot in the teacher's classroom, it might include extra time, it might allow for testing in a separate setting or preferential seating. It might allow her to bring her bookbag to class so that forgetting things isn't a problem, or it might provide a check-list for her to use each evening as she packs her things for the next day. Given what you've said about her, a good 504 idea would be to have her sit in a "side seat" so that when she feels the need to talk or move around, she can quietly stretch and stand by her desk for a few minutes (without disrupting the rest of the class).

That brings us to the most important question: Have these specifics been followed? The teachers have to do what's on the 504 (or IEP) -- nothing else beyond what's provided for the other students.

No 504 will give the student permission to essentially behave badly in class. Talking in class is going to be disruptive -- if she really cannot be quiet for an hour in class, she may need the greater services available in an alternative setting. The details on the 504 should be designed to help the student "make it" in the mainstream classroom -- not to allow a lower standard of behavior in that classroom.

Finally, what is the alternative setting? What can they provide that the mainstream classroom cannot? I wouldn't discount the option without knowing what it can do for her, especially since you're saying that she isn't fitting into middle school well -- why keep her in a place that isn't working? Also, an alternative setting for middle school doesn't mean that she's going to need to stay there for high school too.

More details, please!

 

[Anne MN]

If a district is NOT following a 504 plan- MAKE SURE to do all correspondance in writing! things like asking why this is not being followed, why is this being done? and cc the principal.
here is something I didn't know till I had to do it, a 504 falls under a different catagory for enforcement than an IEP
If you have the documentation and feel that they are totally not following the 504 make a complaint
it is a lengthly process- and here is the kicker
when you make a complaint on the district for a 504 plan, you are filing a civil rights lawsuit.
I did this- I didn't know that all complaints for 504's go thru the office of civil rights (unless things have changes- this was about 5yrs ago)
boy- about 2 weeks after doing all the paperwork and such the district suddenly wanted to follow her IEP (she had switched mid year) I asked when I filed about this- the nice lady said that this would happen, but what they were looking at is the time frame you are talking about- NOT what they are doing after the fact. the district finally did what they were supose to be doing, BUT they still got hit with a huge fine and 2 weeks of DISTRICT wide re-training!
I didn't care about backlash- we were leaving the district- but that is something that could be an issue. I was doing it because there were many more parents who were asking me what to do, how to make the district follow the "rules" after all was done- I had talked to a few parents and things were 1000% better- even 3 yrs later, so it does help

 

[IDoDis]

The OP has already stated that her DD DOES NOT have a 504 plan or an IEP. Quite frankly, I think there are many other pieces to the puzzle missing here. A child is not moved to an alternative school without documentation. In my state, that doesn't happen unless there's an IEP AND an FBA/BIP (behavior intervention plan) in place that has not been successful AND the student is interrupting not only their learning, but the learning of others in an extreme way. PLUS, the child would first be placed in a behavior CLASS perhaps at a different school that houses a BIP pogram prior to being moved to some type of military school (which doesn't even exist here), but it takes moving mountains to get this done including psych evaluations and lots of data.

A child must be diagnosed as being ED (emotionally disturbed) with an IEP before being placed in this kind of setting. The lower least restrictive environment settings with proper interventions are always tried first. Sounds like nothing of that nature has been done as of yet, so I don't see the logic where the OP says they want to move her DD to some kind of high-security school for juvenile delinquents when the girl's problem is not being able to sit still, or she's forgetting to bring her supplies to class, and does not have a 504 NOR an IEP in place. Something does not add up here with the info the OP has given!

The child would have to be at a state of throwing temper tantrums, throwing chairs, hurting other kids/teachers before such a move would even be considered here, and even with that, a documentation paper trail of dates and interventions MUST be in place with an ongoing IEP, and a behavior intervention plan.

 

[MM27]

I'm confused. If she doesn't have a 504 plan then how can the school get in trouble for not following one?

You said she hasn't been evaluated since she started middle school. Have you requested an evaluation?

If there is no 504 plan and no evaluation done I think the school is treating her like she is a troubled/bad kid. Get the evaluation and go from there. I don't see how the school is in the wrong with this...yet. If they have ignored a 504 or refused an evaluation I can see an issue but from what I've read neither of those have happened.

I had to reread the original post because I thought I missed something. It sounds to me like there isn't a 504 or an IEP. If that's the case, then no modifications need to be made at all right now.

 

[ksjayhawks]

Any update? How did the meeting go? What did you find out?