ACLU And Finger Scans

[Nuchi15697]

I heard a clip on the radio that the ACLU was giving WDW a hard time about the finger scans. Anyone else hear anything about this?

 

[Brian Noble]

As a card-carrying member of the ACLU, even I think this one is a tempest in a teapot.

I've seen the quote from the ACLU spokesman. The ACLU (incorrectly) believes that hand geometry is an identifying characteristic. It is not "unique" enough to positively identify someone (at least given current sensing technology)---two different people have a non-trivial chance of having the same readings. On top of that, the vast majority of people never shared their old parkhoppers, and most parkhoppers were bought directly from disney---enabling Disney to tie use of a ticket to identifying information. So, this new technology (a) doesn't do what the ACLU thinks it does and (b) doesn't give Disney any new abilities it didn't already have.

 

[Arniebuteft]

From a recent news article:
Spalding, of the ACLU, said several people brought Disney's system to the group's attention, but so far no one has complained.

"If you're that offended, you don't have to associate with Disney," Spalding said.

That about says it all. Besides, the finger scan is not a reliable biometric, like a fingerprint or iris scan, and Disney doesn't keep the data after the ticket expires.

 

[Christopher Robin]

My enemies' enemy is my friend. Go Disney.

 

[disnut8]

Um... Then the ACLU better go and check out a certain payroll vendor who has time clocks that require finger scanning now. Same thing as at Disney World. You have to have a valid finger scan or you aren't on the clock and earning your wages. My husband is flying all over the country teaching the workers just how to do the scan properly. But he does have the experience of many, many finger scanning opportunities at Disney World.

 

[jjarman]

DB is already grumbling about this and they aren’t planning a trip until 2008! He is a total libertarian and I told him it is not fingerprints. I mean, he will gladly give his DNA to a doctor or hospital (when giving blood) but not scan the shape of his fingers! If I go with him I will have to have a stern big sister/little brother talk with him.

 

[AJKMOM]

It's too bad that any of this is even necessary. I do think it's unfair that a ticket I bought for one kid won't be able to be used for another kid on a later trip. Sometimes we all go, sometimes the college kid stays home. If he has an extra day, other family members can't use it on a different trip, (unless I missed something).

 

[Synonymous]

Why jump all over the ACLU? The quote from their representative just says "if you don't like it, don't go." How is that giving Disney a hard time?

 

[bicker]

Here is another quote:

“I think it’s a step in the wrong direction,” Civil Liberties Union spokesman George Crossley said. “I think it is a step toward collection of personal information on people regardless of what Disney says.”

“The collecting of this fingertip information and how it is to be used and what the source of that information is as it relates to what it will show — I don’t like it and we will look into it,” Crossley said.

From my perspective, just like with any aspect of any product or service offered for sale, if you don't like it, don't enter the parks. If you're concerned enough about personal privacy to make that decision, you should have gotten assurances that your personal privacy, as you see it, would be respected, before you purchased your vacation.

 

[goofy4tink]

It's too bad that any of this is even necessary. I do think it's unfair that a ticket I bought for one kid won't be able to be used for another kid on a later trip. Sometimes we all go, sometimes the college kid stays home. If he has an extra day, other family members can't use it on a different trip, (unless I missed something).

I'm sorry if this comes off as a critisism, but..this is one big reason Disney is doing the biometrics. Many people were buying the multi-day passes and then handing the unused days off to other people. Yes, I guess you can use the rational that 'well, the days are paid for..what difference does it make who uses it' but it does say on the pass that it is for the person who bought it. Have I handed off a pass with unused days on it? Yep, I gave my 7 day PHP pass from '01 that had one day left on it to my dad last Nov. We had APs and my dad and step mom were visiting from southern Fl when we celebrated Thanksgiving in WDW. Since we wanted to have some 'magical memories' with them, we finished up those PHP passes.

I guess there has been a ton of misuse of the passes and now with the longer stay passes being so cheap it seems Disney is trying to stop the abuse. I have no issue whatsoever with the finger scans...no big deal. Sometimes I think we are getting a little carried away with the whole personnal freedom thing. The gov't already has plenty of my DNA if it chooses to look for it. It doesn't need my finger scan from the turnstyles at Epcot!!!

 

[Gooofy-Blade]

Ahhhhhhhhhhh, the ACLU, ready to jump in on anything. Where I work they prove their title.......American Criminal Lovers Union! Now, I'm sure I'll get a lecture!zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[hugsquared]

My enemies' enemy is my friend. Go Disney.

Amen brother!!!

 

[shellybaxter]

While I understand the need for the biometric scanners, I feel they could be an invasion of my privacy. Disney is requiring me to give them some of my personal information. I'm glad that the ACLU is looking into whether that violates my rights. I too am a "card carrying" member of the ACLU. I don't agree with everything they choose to champion, but I'm awfully glad they are there. In order to appropriately stand for you and me, sometimes they also have to stand for those we despise. That's the way freedom works, everyone has the same rights. From the quote above it sounds to me like they are not too worried about Disney’s way of identifying me. And they feel it is my choice to go to Disney and have my information taken. So that’s good enough for me. I feel good that they "checked it out" and looked at the legalities. However, if they had decided they thought it was a violation of rights and chose to sue Disney, trying to change the process, I'd be okay with that too.

 

[Synonymous]

However, if they had decided they thought it was a violation of rights and chose to sue Disney, trying to change the process, I'd be okay with that too.

Amen, sister!

It's too bad people in this country don't believe in civil rights anymore. Some day they'll be gone, and we'll wish we had an ACLU to keep the government honest.

 

[tarmand]

There are so many other places that do more invasive things. For instance, at the credit union service center where I live you must provide your fingerprint when depositing a check larger than $500. I do it, but I think it is absurd. I'm more annoyed that they make you stick your thumb on an ink pad and then don't provide a tissue to wipe the black ink off!

 

[CarolA]

Isn't there something imporatant they could worry about?????

If this is the biggest injustice out there then they just need to go out of business LOL!

 

[Synonymous]

You've got a very good point, tarmand- most of us casually give out our social security numbers on an almost daily basis. They're used by so many businesses as a sort of "P.I.N." If anyone ever got hold of your number (and it would be absurdly easy to do so) and had bad intentions, you'd have some problems.

Finger scans don't seem like much of a threat, compared to that.

 

[Chuck S]

But isn't there another alternative? If your tickets have your name printed on them, you could show a valid photo ID. While I personally don;t mind the finger scans, Mom & I often show DLs instead, because she is in a wheelchair for the parks and I'm the designated "driver". Of course, there are occasions when the CM require us to scan...but because of the design/location of the scanners, it is very inconvenient. If Disney Imagineers could simply have some sort of movable scanner that could be conveniently by those in wheelchairs, it wouldn't be a problem at all.

There are so many more serious "privacy" issues today...for insttance, buy a new car in TX...your name, dealers name, salesmans name, VIN, date of purchase is all on your temporary plate. Order a copy of your birth certificate, the return envelope is sent through regular mail, not tracked or signature required. Companies using SS#s for PINs. All of them more serious, and more identifiable than those finger scans.

 

[KimWDW]

I would have a big problem with it if they kept it, but since the data is gone once the ticket expires, I'm cool with it. I'm thankful for the ACLU, however. I may not agree with everything they do, but they are always looking out for govt or businesses who go too far with our personal information and restricting our freedom. I think if Disney kept our fingerprints in a database after the ticket expired (or if they forwarded our fingerprints to someone else, shared it in any way) the ACLU would have found out. That's why I'm thankful for that organization.

But this particular issue seems to be a non-issue for me personally. I'm still glad they looked into it because I'm happy to know that Disney doesn't keep the info after expiration.

 

[Chuck S]

But they aren't using your fingerprints. It is a "bio scan" of your bone structure, in other words, "Knuckle A" lines up with "Point B" in the scanner, and the thinnest part of your finger lines up with "Point C", etc. There are enough points checked that the system is fairly, but not 100% accurate, and unless someone had an identical system, the info would be worthless.

I think the ACLU provides a valuable service, I just think they need to pick their battles better.