Accountant Question - Why use points for Fri / Sat Night?

[Martinvols]

I have looked at every resort and have a question regarding Friday and Saturday nights. Friday and Saturday nights obviously eat up a lot of points. If I typically vacation in the summer months (June / July), I think I would be better off financially to pay cash for every Friday and Saturday night. Then, sell my excess points at $10/point to pay for the Friday and Saturday nights. Here are a couple of examples --- Disney 2BR Hilton Head in June goes for 56 points for Fri and 84 points for Sat. Why would I pay $560 for Friday night and $840 for Saturday night? Given that I can sell 56 points for $560 and 84 points for $840. And, more importantly, the rack rate for Disney 2BR Hilton Head is only $410. Couple this, with the fact that I may be able to get a 25% DVC cash discount and the numbers get really ridiculous. The cash option (with hotel taxes) amounts to about $700 for Friday and Saturday nights combined whereas the opportunity cost of using points equals $1,400 ---a whopping $700 savings by paying cash. The same exact scenario applies for the Beach Club and Old Key West. I can't seem to find any DVC resorts where I would use points for Friday and Saturday nights. Obviously, Disney did not think this through when setting up their point system. Or, maybe they did think it through and knew some individuals would not spend the time to sell their points. And, they would also benefit from some positive cash flow. What am I missing here --- even if I get shut out of the 25% DVC discount --- using points for Friday / Saturday nights is an incompetent move for an Accountant. Another note is that most DVC members have annual passes and the annual pass discount is another option for the Friday / Saturday nights if getting shut out of the 25% DVC cash discount. Thoughts from experienced DVC members on maximizing value of DVC membership?

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

The one thing you aren't considering is the risks you are taking when renting points. It isn't really an accounting question but a risk versus reward question.


Otherwise I agree its a logical thing to do.

 

[JimC]

The premium for Fri and Sat nights makes it less likely that local members will take weekend visits and effectively block others from a full week stay. It seems rational to me.

We look at the weekly points as to what the villa costs. The program works fine for us on that basis.

Many don't want the hassle of renting and the risk that goes along with it.

The cost of our points is substantially below the supposed market rental rate so the savings in our view is not all that great.

HH, I believe has premiums on Fri, Sat and Sun. I am not sure why they are different. Maybe the vacationing patterns on the island are different. Dean or some others could speak to that.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

I'll have more to add later when I have more time, but off the cuff I see you are valuing your points at $10 each. That's fine if you will indeed rent them if you don't use them.
You must also factor in some risk for damages, and the inability to rent ect...

Pertsonally I value my points around $6.25 each, as that is what they actually COST me to use.

MG

 

[Candace]

"The premium for Fri and Sat nights makes it less likely that local members will take weekend visits and effectively block others from a full week stay."

I remember my guide telling me that this was the reason it was done this way (I bought in '94). Hilton Head's Sat. nite points are higher than Friday night - it is the only resort to have it this way. I don't know why they make a difference between the Fri and Sat. nites, but I know when I go there, I have never stayed a Sat. night on points!

 

[NE14DisneyWorld?]

I too am an accountant and totally agree with you. When we purchased our contract, I crunched the numbers, ran them in excel and every way I could see, weekends should be paid for with cash - FOR US. After figuring that out, we just purchased less points and knew we would pay cash for the Friday and Saturday night stays.

 

[lllovell]

"The premium for Fri and Sat nights makes it less likely that local members will take weekend visits and effectively block others from a full week stay."

I remember my guide telling me that this was the reason it was done this way (I bought in '94). Hilton Head's Sat. nite points are higher than Friday night - it is the only resort to have it this way. I don't know why they make a difference between the Fri and Sat. nites, but I know when I go there, I have never stayed a Sat. night on points!

We are going to stay for a long weekend at HHI in January, but only because the points are so low then. I would not find any value in staying over a weekend any other way.

I have always liked the advice often said here when it comes to WDW properties that you could stay at Universal and enjoy FOTL or stay in a value/moderate for the weekend and then check into you DVC resort (doing it the other way would probably seem like torture!).

After the other recent thread here about room charges being owed by the "owner" of the points if there is a problem, I dont think I will ever rent to people I don't already know.

Laura

 

[MdmMim]

When I make a ressie, I look at the number of points needed for a week , not a day. I don't concern myself with weekend points, as I purchased the points to use them--and to not spend any more $ on hotels.

 

[CarolMN]

I use points for weekends most stays. As others have already said, when you look at the cost of a week, it doesn't seem so bad. Plus, we bought and already paid for the number of points we need to go 7 - 9 nights per year. Can't get away to go more than that, so it makes sense to me to use the points that are already paid for -

That said, if we plan to visit off site attactions, I will arrange our schedule to do them over a weekend and stay near by. I am paying cash for a Friday night (AP rate at a at a mod) on my next trip because I couldn't get in to the BWV on points for that night (poor planning on my part) and refuse to pay the rack rate for a 1 bedroom. No Member discount or Ap rates available for my date.


I do not agree that you are better off financially to rent your points and pay cash - that's true only if you don't value your time very highly. Renting points is not a 60-second proposition. Nor is it risk free. The whole process sounds as exciting to me as a trip to the dentist. Only under duress, LOL!

Best wishes -

 

[Muushka]

I am not an Accountant, but I do crunch the numbers. I agree with your assessment of Fri/Sat point usage and we have never used our points for weekends (for the most part). We always got a 1 BR, and weekend points are very $$.

However, we are using points for a studio at BCV in December. It will cost 22 points a night for the studio on a Fri and Sat stay (44 total). I also value our points at $10, so that is $220 a night. If I rented the room from CRO, with the 25% discount, it would cost me $244 a night (including tax). No brainer there.

And, I don't have to go through the hassle of renting points.
And we don't have to move.

 

[Dean]

You have to decide if it's worth it or not. Look at the number of points and cost for cash nights and compare. The best way to do it is to decide up front before buying and simply buy less points.

 

[drakethib]

I have looked at every resort and have a question regarding Friday and Saturday nights. Friday and Saturday nights obviously eat up a lot of points. If I typically vacation in the summer months (June / July), I think I would be better off financially to pay cash for every Friday and Saturday night. Then, sell my excess points at $10/point to pay for the Friday and Saturday nights. Here are a couple of examples --- Disney 2BR Hilton Head in June goes for 56 points for Fri and 84 points for Sat. Why would I pay $560 for Friday night and $840 for Saturday night? Given that I can sell 56 points for $560 and 84 points for $840. And, more importantly, the rack rate for Disney 2BR Hilton Head is only $410. Couple this, with the fact that I may be able to get a 25% DVC cash discount and the numbers get really ridiculous. The cash option (with hotel taxes) amounts to about $700 for Friday and Saturday nights combined whereas the opportunity cost of using points equals $1,400 ---a whopping $700 savings by paying cash. The same exact scenario applies for the Beach Club and Old Key West. I can't seem to find any DVC resorts where I would use points for Friday and Saturday nights. Obviously, Disney did not think this through when setting up their point system. Or, maybe they did think it through and knew some individuals would not spend the time to sell their points. And, they would also benefit from some positive cash flow. What am I missing here --- even if I get shut out of the 25% DVC discount --- using points for Friday / Saturday nights is an incompetent move for an Accountant. Another note is that most DVC members have annual passes and the annual pass discount is another option for the Friday / Saturday nights if getting shut out of the 25% DVC cash discount. Thoughts from experienced DVC members on maximizing value of DVC membership?

My 2 cents.

We have used points on weekends without giving it a thought. Once I realized that I had darn near burned more points on 2 days then I did on 5 I wanted to kick myself in the behind. It won't happen again.

On renting, I will only rent to a close family member and when I do it is about $5 bucks per point which pretty well covers the maint cost for points I won't use as our DVC is paid for.

For those who do not want to rent, I highly advise transferring to another DVC member. It is much less risky. I have done it from a DVC memebr and it went flawless.

Hope this helps.

 

[Laurabearz]

We normally cough up the extra points for weekend stays, but will pay cash for our summer Saturday night stay at HHI becasue a two bedroom is 99 points for a saturday night. We use the 25% off member discount. We dont rent points to cover it. We find other uses for them! LOL

 

[AFMom]

We used points on our first stay that included a weekend - but we had bought a resale with a huge number of points that needed to be used soon - so we figured we might as well enjoy them.
There is another way to look at this....
Why ever stay at any time other than Adventure (that's the value season) season? - Because look at the point difference between that and Premier Season! OKW Studio in 2005 Sun-Thurs nights would be 8 points per night in Adventure season, in Premier that goes up to 15 points per night. That's almost double!
The point here being - Yes - there are many ways you can use your points to get the most value out of them - and we'll probably plan most of our trips to include either none or only 1 weekend night just because we don't have that many points! And I am pro-renting as far as that goes - so renting and then paying cash for weekends wouldn't be a problem.
My issue would be - we bought these points to have pre-paid accomodations
at WDW, why would I want to deal with trying to get an AP rate or member rate, deal with tying the reservation together, etc?
I do have to say - I like the idea of doing Universal on the weekends..... stay there Fri and Sat, then move over to DVC on Sun.... Many ways to work it!
The main reason we'd want to stay put for our full stay is our full 1 bdrm kitchen! We really fill the place up!

 

[billyb1]

I usually plan my stays from Sat-Fri or Sun-Sat and only have one maxi point night per stay, allows me to strech a little bit without the hassle of renting.

On Renting and Cash reservations. I recently booked a weekend at SSR in a 1BR. It will cost 84 points for the Fri and Sat night. The cash price in $294 per night + 11.5% tax. This makes the $10 rental model only about $180 difference. To me, that was not worth the hassle of renting to cover, so I will use the 84 pts over the $660 in cash. I dunno, if that difference was more near $300, I would have went cash and saved the points. Its a personal preference on value.

Bill

 

[rinkwide]

...you could stay at Universal and enjoy FOTL...and then check into your DVC resort...

That's our newly adopted strategy too. We find it works well on a lot of levels:

First, you get to avoid the high point-per-night rate on weekends

Second, you get to "cut" ride lines (FOTL) on busy weekend days

Third, you get to check into your DVC resort earlier in the day (especially nice for us West Coast members)

Finally, and most importantly, more days of vacation fun.

Of course, if enough people use this strategy the points for weekends would eventually come down (but the points for weekdays would go up ).

 

[dianeschlicht]

We also have always looked at it as what a week costs rather than what a weekend night costs. We usually stay about 10 nights with the weekend in the middle, so we feel we get more "bang for our buck" point wise that way.

 

[Disney Doll]

We don't usually use points for a weekend night either, because we do like to conserve them as much as possible. We have done it on occasion, but I like to stay in the different WDW resorts, so it works well for us to arrive on a Friday, stay in a regular resort Friday, Saturday and sometimes Sunday nights, and then move to the DVC property.

I don't even consider renting points because I don't want the hassle of dealing with making arrangements for someone else's vacation, I don't want the liability of someone else staying there on my points should something happen, I don't want to worry that the renter is going to cancel inside of the acceptable timeframe and then I am going be stuck with points in holding that have to be used or lost.

Plus, I usually don't have enough points left to rent!!!!!

 

[ClarabelleCow]

I wouldn't normally worry abuot weekend nights, unless it works for us, last february, we were down for the Daytona 500, I had enough Starwood Points from my AMEX to book 2 nights at the Dolphin/Swan, not sure which one we were at, we were hardly there, arrived Saturday, left in the wee hours on Sunday for the race, got home in the wee hours, and then checked into SSR on Monday, it worked, we had the car, so no problems. But this coming trip to VWL for New Years, we booked 5 nights in a 2 bedroom, weekend points included, I figured it as a cost of the vacation, wasn't gonna worry about the points, because isn't that why I bougth them? Plus DH would freak out if we had to move!

 

[TnRobin]

As an accountant, I look at things from two sides. Value and Cost. Yes the value of my points is between $10 - 12 on the rental market. Yes I have about $5.50 invested in each point.

But the senerio you mentioned about summer weekend at HH is a supply and demand issue. Demand for a villa at HH in the summer is extremely high. Availability at the 7 month mark for points is very limited. I believe that the cash availability is even more limited. Will there be a 2BR available on the weekend for cash? The instances where I have tried for a cash ressie of any sort in the summer has been met with disappointment.