Academics vs. extracurriculars

[golfgal]

I like how you think OP. Academics are important but if your son has found his groove and is doing well with a fair amount of work then why push? I don't. My children are all in the top tracks with straight A's and I fail to see how pushing them harder will result in happier adults. They are not in honors because I don't want them there, I did it and it didn't improve my life one bit, it's prestigious I guess but after that what? No payoff in happiness.

Until they get rejected from their college of choice because they did not take a rigorous high school schedule How are your kids in the top track without being in honors classes???

 

[LuvOrlando]

Until they get rejected from their college of choice because they did not take a rigorous high school schedule How are your kids in the top track without being in honors classes???

They are not in accelerated classes so they are not taking classes ahead of their years. Well, that's not quite true, my son is in an accelerated math class but there seem to be 2 accelerated tracks due to some weirdness. they didn't do this with my daughter's grade. Since both kids are doing so well I suspect they may try to push this on them again, I'll talk it over with my DH and we'll decide as a couple how to best balance our kids as we move on.

See that's the thing isn't it, what you said about the colleges and all? People equate getting into a particular school with success. I reject that notion pretty much entirely. If my kids get into those schools but are socially maladjusted neurotics who can't take criticism and who can't think outside of the box because inside the box is where you get all the accolades, did I really succeed? If my kid gets into, say, a second tier school but has an enormous network of allies and contacts, laughs easily and lets criticisms roll of his/her back, gets a good job, has a family and gets to enjoy every blessed second because I taught them how to live, well maybe that's my version of success.

Everyone sees a path for their kids, I just happen to think moderation and ease is the best way to achieve happy because contentment is what I perceive as the best final destination and to me, all else is a failure. Success is a state of being

 

[golfgal]

They are not in accelerated classes so they are not taking classes ahead of their years. Well, that's not quite true, my son is in an accelerated math class but there seem to be 2 accelerated tracks due to some weirdness. they didn't do this with my daughter's grade. Since both kids are doing so well I suspect they may try to push this on them again, I'll talk it over with my DH and we'll decide as a couple how to best balance our kids as we move on.

See that's the thing isn't it? People equate getting into a particular school with success. I reject that notion pretty much entirely. If my kids get into those schools but are socially maladjusted neurotics who can't take criticism and who can't think outside of the box because inside the box is where you get all the accolades, did I really succeed? If my kid gets into, say, a second tier school but has an enormous network of allies and contacts, laughs easily and lets criticisms roll of his/her back, gets a good job, has a family and gets to enjoy every blessed second because I taught them how to live, well maybe that's my version of success.

Everyone sees a path for their kids, I just happen to think moderation and ease is the best way to achieve happy because contentment is what I perceive as the best final destination and to me, all else is a failure. Success is a state of being

I said nothing about getting into "top" schools, only THEIR school of choice...

 

[LuvOrlando]

I said nothing about getting into "top" schools, only THEIR school of choice...

I think it was implied. Why would they be rejected from a school that wasn't top? No-one gets rejected from a community college and only the top ones necessitate all honors.

If you didn't mean a top school why would honors classes, or a lack thereof, be relevant? I genuinely don't understand

 

[golfgal]

I think it was implied. Why would they be rejected from a school that wasn't top? No-one gets rejected from a community college and only the top ones necessitate all honors.

If you didn't mean a top school why would honors classes, or a lack thereof, be relevant? I genuinely don't understand

Actually, kids DO get rejected from community college-or wait-listed and kids often get rejected from second and third tier schools as well. Unless the only schools your kids apply to guarantee admission-and I wouldn't want my kids going to a "college" like that, there is always the chance they won't get accepted. If they have the option of taking honors level courses in high school and only take general level course, there is a good chance they will get rejected from all but the easiest colleges, especially if there is an AP/Post-Secondary level on top of the honors program. Look at any college website and they all say they look at the strength of their schedule as an admission requirement, not just the top schools. Also, keep in mind that your kids will be competing for those college spots with kids that DID take the honors/AP+ route-thus the reason why they may get rejected even from easy schools.

 

[mhsjax]

Actually, kids DO get rejected from community college-or wait-listed and kids often get rejected from second and third tier schools as well. Unless the only schools your kids apply to guarantee admission-and I wouldn't want my kids going to a "college" like that, there is always the chance they won't get accepted. If they have the option of taking honors level courses in high school and only take general level course, there is a good chance they will get rejected from all but the easiest colleges, especially if there is an AP/Post-Secondary level on top of the honors program. Look at any college website and they all say they look at the strength of their schedule as an admission requirement, not just the top schools. Also, keep in mind that your kids will be competing for those college spots with kids that DID take the honors/AP+ route-thus the reason why they may get rejected even from easy schools.

Not every states works exactly like the great state of MN. I have never seen a kid rejected from a CC and in Florida, as long as you meet the graduation requirements you are accepted into a school in the FL state system. And although I am no lover of UF, it is a school that anyone could be proud of, academically. So yeah, I really don't think anyone would have a problem with that type of situation.

 

[design_mom]

OP -- I think I would make the decision you are making. Balance is important.

In middle school and high school I was in just about every honors and/or AP class that was offered. I did a few extracurriculars (mainly service projects) because it would look good on college applications. But I wasn't really well rounded. Academics were definitely the focus.

I got into every college I applied to, including several very prestigious ones. But I didn't get huge scholarships to those schools, and couldn't afford the tuition without going into major debt, so I picked a more reasonably priced school. I think I still got a good education. While at college, I took a huge course load and was academics-academics-academics. I graduated Magna Cum Laude but I was totally burnt out.

If I were doing it again, I would definitely do some things differently. If my child can handle extracurriculars that he really enjoys plus honors classes -- GREAT! If he needed to limit/cut extracurriculars to keep up with (regular) classes in school, then we would do that because academics *is* important. However, I don't think I'd recommend advanced classes (AP/honors) at the expense of extra-curriculars that he really enjoys.

(My son is currently in one accelerated class (math) and plays rec soccer and house league ice hockey... but we're not in middle school yet. One more year.)

 

[golfgal]

OP -- I think I would make the decision you are making. Balance is important.

In middle school and high school I was in just about every honors and/or AP class that was offered. I did a few extracurriculars (mainly service projects) because it would look good on college applications. But I wasn't really well rounded. Academics were definitely the focus.

I got into every college I applied to, including several very prestigious ones. But I didn't get huge scholarships to those schools, and couldn't afford the tuition without going into major debt, so I picked a more reasonably priced school. I think I still got a good education. While at college, I took a huge course load and was academics-academics-academics. I graduated Magna Cum Laude but I was totally burnt out.

If I were doing it again, I would definitely do some things differently. If my child can handle extracurriculars that he really enjoys plus honors classes -- GREAT! If he needed to limit/cut extracurriculars to keep up with (regular) classes in school, then we would do that because academics *is* important. However, I don't think I'd recommend advanced classes (AP/honors) at the expense of extra-curriculars that he really enjoys.

(My son is currently in one accelerated class (math) and plays rec soccer and house league ice hockey... but we're not in middle school yet. One more year.)

Last year's class valedictorian talked about this at the academic awards banquet last year. He said he was so focused on getting top grades that he "missed out" on being in high school. He was in all kinds of activities, mainly theater and choir but some sports too though. He said that when it came down to doing homework or going out with friends, he chose to do homework. He felt he needed to study that hard to get the grades he got. I think others would say differently but that doesn't really matter. There are plenty of kids that can easily manage taking AP/Post secondary classes and be involved in activities, etc. They certainly are not mutually exclusive. I think you will find that in most schools the top 10% of the classes are heavily involved in sports/music/community but still get top grades. I see the OP's dilemma as choosing one over the other vs figuring out a way to make them both work.

 

[golfgal]

Not every states works exactly like the great state of MN. I have never seen a kid rejected from a CC and in Florida, as long as you meet the graduation requirements you are accepted into a school in the FL state system. And although I am no lover of UF, it is a school that anyone could be proud of, academically. So yeah, I really don't think anyone would have a problem with that type of situation.

 

[mhsjax]

Meaning what?

 

[design_mom]

Last year's class valedictorian talked about this at the academic awards banquet last year. He said he was so focused on getting top grades that he "missed out" on being in high school. He was in all kinds of activities, mainly theater and choir but some sports too though. He said that when it came down to doing homework or going out with friends, he chose to do homework. He felt he needed to study that hard to get the grades he got. I think others would say differently but that doesn't really matter. There are plenty of kids that can easily manage taking AP/Post secondary classes and be involved in activities, etc. They certainly are not mutually exclusive. I think you will find that in most schools the top 10% of the classes are heavily involved in sports/music/community but still get top grades. I see the OP's dilemma as choosing one over the other vs figuring out a way to make them both work.

Well, I suppose if you list it all I out, I was in a lot of things -- but a lot of them became "commitments" rather than stuff that I really enjoyed doing.
-- flag corps in the marching band
-- crew managers for the school play/musical
-- latin club
-- volunteered 1000+ hours at the science museum
-- volunteered in the nursery at church
-- had a job junior and senior year of high school

I was in the top 10% of my class (top 3% actually of a college prep school) but I was "going" 24 hours a day all the time.

I kept up that pace throughout college. And if you'd asked me at the time, I was on top of it all and was happy... but it's exhausting. (I was studying Latin on my lunch breaks at work, and had to rush away right after practice to get to the next thing rather than hanging out with friends, etc.) I still have trouble "stopping to smell the roses."

I don't think the OP is asking if she should let her son totally slack off at school. In that case, I'd say "no." But if he has activities that he really enjoys and is doing well in school, I don't recommend burying him in honors academics to the point that he can't enjoy his extracurriculars anymore. She thinks he can handle 2 honors classes plus his extracurriculars. That's great. I don't think it's worth it to pile on a 3rd honors class at the expense of something he really enjoys.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

Actually, kids DO get rejected from community college-or wait-listed and kids often get rejected from second and third tier schools as well. Unless the only schools your kids apply to guarantee admission-and I wouldn't want my kids going to a "college" like that, there is always the chance they won't get accepted. If they have the option of taking honors level courses in high school and only take general level course, there is a good chance they will get rejected from all but the easiest colleges, especially if there is an AP/Post-Secondary level on top of the honors program. Look at any college website and they all say they look at the strength of their schedule as an admission requirement, not just the top schools. Also, keep in mind that your kids will be competing for those college spots with kids that DID take the honors/AP+ route-thus the reason why they may get rejected even from easy schools.

I should clarify, that at our high school "on level" is college track. They send 95% of kids to college, with average SAT scores that are about 230 points above national average.

Kids in our middle school who are "on level" graduate 8th with 3 high school credits (Algebra, Earth Science, and one in French or Spanish). They are on track to take AP Calc, and AP foreign language (or IB, the school offers both). The school is also "IB" certified so the kids in this track are all on course for an IB diploma if they choose one.

The only other track is called "gifted" in middle school, and "honors" in high school (I called it honors here, because gifted makes it sound like it's a test in program, which it isn't). These classes vary. In math there are no "gifted" classes, kids simply study a year to three years above their level. In foreign language the class goes twice as fast, they also have the option of choosing Chinese instead of French of Spanish, and of starting foreign langauge in 6th instead of 7th. In English, Science, and Social Studies the classes are supposed to include about 30% more content/work.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

There are plenty of kids that can easily manage taking AP/Post secondary classes and be involved in activities, etc. They certainly are not mutually exclusive.

I agree that this is true. I know kids like this.

Right now, with my particular kid and his particular strengths and weaknesses, and our particular school (top middle school/high school in the state, reputation as a pressure cooker), he's not capable of being that kid.

He might be able to do several activities, high level classes across the board (including taking a full year high school course in Chinese, as a 7th grader), and decent grades but it would require one of two things:

1) More "help" from me than I think is appropriate, if the real goal is to prepare him to perform independently at a high level in high school.

OR

2) A non-sustainable workload, leaving no time for friends, family, sleep, and simply being a 12 year old child.

I'm not willing to do either of those.