absentee Dad

[katz99]

Ok all I need your help on this one. There was a thread a while back about when you and your Ex have joint custody and how you need a letter of permission from the other parent to take them out of the country. My childrens father decided in December, that after 9 years of every other weekend he no longer wants to see the kids because they disrupt his time. Needless to say we have this cruise paid for, but the letter needs to be dated no more than 60 days before sailing. I have no clue where he is as we have had no contact since December. Will Disney deny us our vacation of a lifetime because of that SOB? He is fully aware of the cruise plans and at the time had no problem with it. HELP!

 

[vicnmickey]

Not being in contact with him or knowing were he is. I am in kinda of the same situation with my son. My sons father has never seen him a day in his life. So how would I get a letter signed right. But his name is not on his birth certificate either so that makes it easier. My thoughts on this would be not to worry about it and go without the letter. Don't say anything to DCL and they will probably not say anything to you. If the subject comes up, explain your situation. I would take your divorce papers just in case. I hope you find a solution and have a wonderful cruise.

 

[Buckaroo's Dad]

My thoughts on this would be not to worry about it and go without the letter.

I agree. It's only an issue if you make it one.

Should this not "sit well" with you, I'd imagine you could request an emergency family-court hearing in order to secure a formal decree from the court... (Can they "decree" that someone is an arshole?...

 

[floridaminnie]

I've been on two cruises so far and DCL has never asked to see any letter. My name is the only name on the birth certificate (his is not) and she has the same last name as me (not him).

 

[AnnMorin]

Thankfully I am happilly married to DS's dad so I never had to worry about this but I did think that the letter was only if you were the non-custodial parent. I thought the person that has physical custody of the child could take them whereever they please.

 

[tmli]

Even though I am married by dh never travels with us. I've always been told to have a notarized letter from our attorney giving me permission to bring my son out of country.

That being said, I've always gotten the letter and never been asked for it. For us it's usually customs who would ask as we cross the border or at the airport. It doesn't seem like dcl asks for it that often either.

 

[AnnMorin]

Tmli... that is very interesting! I never would have thought twice about leaving the country with my son without my husband in tow. I would figure that since we were married why would I need a note from him?

 

[mrsltg]

Things are becoming more and more strict, Ann. I posted awhile back that both my husband and I had to be at the passport office in person to get our daughter a passport.

Katz99-- Wow! What a charming guy! Do you have an attorney you could speak with before your cruise? I always lean toward the "better safe than sorry" side of things. I'd say that you should at least call DCL and see what they say. You don't want to end up being unable to board, or worse, unable to get back through customs.

Good luck and enjoy your cruise with your son!

Erin

 

[ducklite]

Originally posted by Buckaroo's Dad
I agree. It's only an issue if you make it one.

Should this not "sit well" with you, I'd imagine you could request an emergency family-court hearing in order to secure a formal decree from the court... (Can they "decree" that someone is an arshole?...

Regretfully it's not that easy.

In order to file a petition for a termination of parental rights, which is what you are talking about, there is a long process and series of conditions which must be met.

First, you have to prove that he is either an unfit parent, or that he has abandoned the children.

If he's still paying child support and hasn't been accused of abuse or arrented for dealing crack or something like that, you don't have a chance in heck.

If he's not paying support, then you have a better chance, but the courts generally want to see a documented history that you have made attempts to arrange for visitation and he has either declined or not shown up for over a year.

Now you can files a motion with the court for a hearing and request a TPA. Depending on the jurisdiction you may have to actually go before the judge and present your case before they will give a hearing date, in other jurisdictions you just get a date. Its generally two-three months, and they generally won't do a TPR hearing an an emergent basis, unless there is a truly compelling reason, and sorry to say a vacation will not be considered truly compelling.

At that point you have to publish the summons and complaint for predetermined by law period in a local paper (and if suspect he is living in another area, a local paper there as well). Generally it is three or four publications over a two to four week period. This is called Service by Publication. You also have to make reasonable effort to ascertain his whereabouts and serve him directly. An attorney or private investigator can get a current address from his employer, MVS/DMV, or in some cases there are other ways (that are gray areas legally).

If he doesn't show, the judge will usually NOT TPR on the first try (unless you can prove just cause--like he was a child abuser and crack addict who killed his neighbors and owns four attack dogs). Generally the court will send the case to mediation to try and work something out. Courts DO NOT like to sign involuntary TPR orders without a long history of just cause.

The only other way is to get him to voluntarily surrender his rights, which probably won't happen.

I'd hire an attorney and have them track him down and ask him to sign the papers.

I used to work for the county dept of social services, my job was to write petitions for TPR to free children in the foster care system for adoption. It is NOT a fast an easy process. You wouldn't believe the whoel thing. I recall one case where the father was serving a life sentence for murder and the mother was a crack addicted prostitute, whereabouts unknown, and the judge wouldn't sign an involuntary TPR because it violated the fathers rights, even though he had never seen the kid!

By the way, this should not be construed as legal advice. Please consult an attorney licensed to practice law in your state or province. I am not a lawyer, I do not play one on tv, and I didn't sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Anne

 

[kajohn]

I wouldn't worry about it. Yes, when getting a passport you need both parents, because you can take them any where in the world, and many places, such as the middle eastern countries, do not honor women's rights to bring them back etc.

However, DCL or any cruise, isn't a likely place people would go to run off with kids and not bring them back.

If you read the documents carefully you will notice that the only time you have to have something signed and notorized is when a child is sailing without any parent.

We travel with my stepson all the time. This was the first time we took him out of the country. I called DCL to ask if I need that form signed by his mother (who has physical custody) they said no.

We went with no documentation from her, and there was no problem at all. In fact I was the one who checked him in, and brought his birth certificate with us, that had his mother's name. They never said a word.

If you have different last names I would bring the divorce decree just in case. This has been asked several times on this board, and I have never heard of any problems, or DCL requiring a letter.

 

[katz99]

Lots of Great info here. Thanks everyone. And Anne you answered more questions for me than you will ever realize THANK YOU

 

[mkauffman]

I cruised last February with my son and I never got a letter from his dad. We cruised as a family with my husband and youngest son, but my oldest son has a different last name and no one ever questioned us. I had his birth certificate and our divorce decree with us (TA told me to take this just to be safe). We're cruising again this November and I'll do the same. The divorce decree has my son's name on it, so if there's ever a question about him belonging to me, at least the names match on the divorce decree. Like I said, no one ever asked (and this was post 9-11) for me to even verify that he's mine. It was never an issue.

And, on a side note, I just have to say.....what a sc*mbag. As a mom I could never imagine not having my kids in my life. How horrible for your children. When they're older they may realize that he's not worth it, but as children all they know is that "dad doesn't want us". It's very sad and I'm sorry that you have to deal with this.

Michelle

 

[mcnuss]

Even though I am married by dh never travels with us. I've always been told to have a notarized letter from our attorney giving me permission to bring my son out of country.

but the letter needs to be dated no more than 60 days before sailing

First question: who told the both of you that you need this letter? If it is part of a custody order, then you'll need it. If you are going to a country that requires it, sometimes cruise ship passengers are exempted. If you are very worried, call DCL, they deal with single parents all the time and will be able to provide guidance as to the countries you will be visiting.

Things are becoming more and more strict, Ann. I posted awhile back that both my husband and I had to be at the passport office in person to get our daughter a passport.

This regulation was put into effect in July, 2001 and was intended to stop parental kidnapping. As we all know, the majority of the kidnappings in this country are perpetrated by non-custodial parents. Congress intended to make it more difficult for the non-custodial parent to get a passport and hoped this would prevent them from taking children out of the US and into countries which do not give full faith & credit to orders of our courts. Unwittingly, they also made it really hard for us traveling, working parents to get their kids' passports, but there are exceptions to both parents being physically present laid out in the regulation. (NB: We had to print out the regulations and DH had to take them with him on a second trip bc the idiot at the PO decided that "unavailable parent" meant dead and not much else. Traveling on business mom was not good enough for him - he concluded that I was not making my child a priority. I kid you not, he said this to DH and then to me on the phone.)

In order to file a petition for a termination of parental rights, which is what you are talking about, there is a long process and series of conditions which must be met.

Thank heavens! I used to work on these too, and I was always glad that the courts make it hard to terminate parental rights. Yes, there are parents who should have their kids taken away, but I, for one, don't want to make it too easy on the State.

Having said this, if the OP is not comfortable leaving the US without a document of some kind, then she can go into court and request a hearing to modify her original custody arrangement to obtain sole custody or could try to get an ex parte hearing and have the judge (or here in my state, the master), give you some kind of authorizing document. She does not need to go thru a TPR to do this.

I honestly believe that you do not need such a document, I too have left the country with my DD w/o DH. My last name is not the same as theirs, and it has never been an issue. Remember that on the cruise, you will never see the Immigration authorities in the countries you will visit. You'll show your passports or BCs at Embarkation, and then they should stay in your stateroom safe until you get back to the US.

I hope this helps.

 

[AnnMorin]

Just curious here... if both parents have to be present for the child to be issued a passport (implying consent for the child to leave the country) then why if that child then has the passport would you need a note from the other parent?
DH is a work right now but I can't wait until he gets home to ask him about all this- he is an attorney.. I find this so interesting as I really never gave it a second thought!

 

[tmli]

We don't have a passport, because being Canadian we don't need it when we travel to the states. As a former TA we had a number of clients refused access at the border or airport who didn't have a letter from other parent.

The reason, from what I understand, is to stop parental kidnappings. Our lawyer offers this service free of charge and says he does 500-700 a year for his clients, while I don't know the legalese behind the actual laws etc. this has something that's always been in effect.

 

[mcnuss]

if both parents have to be present for the child to be issued a passport (implying consent for the child to leave the country) then why if that child then has the passport would you need a note from the other parent?

My first thought was "bc this is our gov't in action"! LOL

The reason is bc there are countries where you can enter w/o the passport.


TMLI - was access denied to Canadians with children w/o passports at the US border or some other? What if the children had their passports?

 

[AnnMorin]

What would they do at the border if the other parent was dead? Would one have to bring the death certificate with them? Or what if the child was born out of wedlock and the father was unknown? Or adopted by a single parent? This is so interesting to me as I had really never given it any thought!

 

[AnnMorin]

And to take it one ponderence further, how would the border gaurds know the letter was authentic? Couldn't they have a letter typed up and signed by someone (there are crooked noteries out there or uninformed ones ) other than the father. For instance my husband is a Jr. If I was in kahoots with his dad I could have him sign a noterized letter that Mr. X Morin gives permission for Ann Morin to take said child out of the country,. same name different person. (if the Jr. or Sr. was omitted from the letter)

 

[mcnuss]

This is why I have always thought this issue was a non-issue, but there are people out there who have had trouble, and I can't figure out why. As I've said before, DD & I travel together all the time, in & out of the US, and never once has this been an problem, and my last name is not the same as hers. BUT, then again, I would not even go to Canada without her passport. To me, it is the gold standard of travel docs.

ps: I am a lawyer, and so is DH. These are the kinds of things that make us nutty - your DH too I suspect. DH does divorce/custody only as his practice, and never once has he done one of these letters for any client, and only once did he have a joint custody situation where the ct. decreed that the parents could not leave the jurisdiction w/o consent from the other. And that was a bad situation and really unique. The cts will (and should!) hesitate to limit a parent's ability to travel with a child, since any of us who are not divorced would not be so limited.

 

[AnnMorin]

McNuss my Dh does not practice law any more as he is a magistrate now but I can not wait until he gets home to ask him about all this-it really is news to me..Maybe I should have him add an addendum to his will that I can take DS out of the country if DH dies you can't be too carefull