Abramoff accepts plea agreement.

[LoraJ]

So you have to parse it to that level to maintain your faith in your party? I hope you don't fall over from all the "spinning" 'cause I am sure getting dizzy just from watching you.

I'm confused by your position. you only want democrats to do down or all of those guilty?

 

[JCJRSmith]

So you have to parse it to that level to maintain your faith in your party? I hope you don't fall over from all the "spinning" 'cause I am sure getting dizzy just from watching you.

Sounds to me like the Fox News bit and the Tribune story were worded in such a way as to deliberately make one think that recieving money from those Abramoff swindled is as bad as getting money from Abramoff. Iron-clad innuendo. The Federal Election Commision database shows no money from Abramoff to and Democrats - only to Republican candidates and Republican-backed PAC's.

This one is going to come down hard on the Republican party, but, as we all know, there is slime on both sides of the aisle. There probably won't be any left-leaning slime involved in this one, but I have faith that, eventually, some of them will do something equally as stupid as the slime on the right who got involved with Abramoff.

 

[Tigger_Magic]

I'm confused by your position. you only want democrats to do down or all of those guilty?

I hate all politicans separately, but equally.

If the investigation reveals that any politican or any of their staff in any branch of government (legislative, judicial or executive) is guilty of taking what amounts to bribes, I don't care if they are Republican, Democrat, Independent, Liberterian, whatever: they should be indicted and tried in a court. If convicted, they should resign and go to jail.

If this includes the president or vice-president, they should be impeached.

Hopefully, this clarifies my position.

 

[JCJRSmith]

I hate all politicans separately, but equally.

 

[escape]

For yeartolate: This is a scene I would like to see.....

from Cagle's Cartoon Index

 

[yeartolate]

I hate all politicans separately, but equally.

If the investigation reveals that any politican or any of their staff in any branch of government (legislative, judicial or executive) is guilty of taking what amounts to bribes, I don't care if they are Republican, Democrat, Independent, Liberterian, whatever: they should be indicted and tried in a court. If convicted, they should resign and go to jail.

If this includes the president or vice-president, they should be impeached.

Hopefully, this clarifies my position.

Pretty much sums up my position.

We need him to name names on whatever side of the aisle --- I refuse to accept that bribery is "just politics".

 

[JudicialTyranny]

Abramhoff has never donated to democrats.

Uh, you need to get informed:

Abramoff Lobbying & Political Contributions to Democrats, per FEC Records

Democratic Senatorial Campaign Cmte $423,480
Democratic Congressional Campaign Cmte $354,700
Democratic National Cmte $65,720

* Senator Harry Reid (D-NV) Received At Least – $68,941
* Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY) Received At Least – $12,950
* Senator John Kerry (D-MA) Received At Least – $98,550
* Senator Chuck Schumer (D-NY) Received At Least – $29,550
* Representative Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif) $3,000
* Representative Henry A. Waxman (D-Calif) $2,500
* Representative Patrick J. Kennedy (D-RI) $42,500
* Senator Max Baucus (D-MT) Received At Least – $22,500
* Senator Evan Bayh (D-IN) Received At Least – $6,500
* Senator Joseph Biden (D-DE) Received At Least – $1,250
* Senator Jeff Bingaman (D-NM) Received At Least – $2,000
* Senator Barbara Boxer (D-CA) Received At Least – $20,250
* Senator Maria Cantwell (D-WA) Received At Least – $21,765
* Senator Tom Carper (D-DE) Received At Least – $7,500
* Senator Kent Conrad (D-ND) Received At Least – $8,000
* Senator Jon Corzine (D-NJ) Received At Least – $7,500
* Senator Chris Dodd (D-CT) Received At Least – $14,792
* Senator Byron Dorgan (D-ND) Received At Least – $79,300
* Senator Dick Durbin (D-IL) Received At Least – $14,000
* Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) Received At Least – $2,000
* Senator Russ Feingold (D-WI) Received At Least – $1,250
* Senator Tom Harkin (D-IA) Received At Least – $45,750
* Senator Daniel Inouye (D-HI) Received At Least – $9,000
* Senator Jim Jeffords (I-VT) Received At Least – $2,000
* Senator Tim Johnson (D-SD) Received At Least – $14,250
* Senator Ted Kennedy (D-MA) Received At Least – $3,300
* Senator Mary Landrieu (D-LA) Received At Least – $28,000
* Senator Pat Leahy (D-VT) Received At Least – $4,000
* Senator Carl Levin (D-MI) Received At Least – $6,000
* Senator Joe Lieberman (D-CT) Received At Least – $29,830
* Senator Blanche Lincoln (D-AR) Received At Least – $14,891
* Senator Barbara Mikulski (D-MD) Received At Least – $10,550
* Senator Patty Murray (D-WA) Received At Least – $78,991
* Senator Bill Nelson (D-FL) Received At Least – $20,168
* Senator Ben Nelson (D-NE) Received At Least – $5,200
* Senator Barack Obama (D-IL) Received At Least – $7,500
* Senator Mark Pryor (D-AR) Received At Least – $2,300
* Senator Jack Reed (D-RI) Received At Least – $3,500
* Senator John Rockefeller (D-WV) Received At Least – $4,000
* Senator Ken Salazar (D-CO) Received At Least – $4,500
* Senator Paul Sarbanes (D-MD) Received At Least – $4,300
* Senator Debbie Stabenow (D-MI) Received At Least – $6,250
* Senator Ron Wyden (D-OR) Received At Least – $6,250
* Representative David E. Bonior (D-Mich) $5,000
* Representative Charles B. Rangel (D-NY) $36,000
* Representative Brad R. Carson (D-Okla) $20,600
* Representative Dale E. Kildee (D-Mich) $19,000
* Representative Steny H. Hoyer (D-Md) $17,500
* Representative Chris John (D-La) $15,000
* Representative Frank Pallone, Jr (D-NJ) $13,600
* Representative Richard A. Gephardt (D-Mo) $12,000
* Representative Barney Frank (D-Mass) $11,100
* Several others of $1,000 and $500
* Democratic Party of Michigan $23,000
* Democratic Party of Oklahoma $15,000
* Democratic Party of North Dakota $10,000
* Democratic Party of South Dakota $9,500
* Democratic Party of Minnesota $9,000
* Democratic Party of New Mexico $6,250
* Democratic Party of Montana $5,000

Grand Total Abramoff Donations to Democrats: $1,541,673

 

[JudicialTyranny]

The Federal Election Commision database shows no money from Abramoff to and Democrats - only to Republican candidates and Republican-backed PAC's.

I don't know what kind of query you are doing, but it is wrong. Even the left leaning Washington Post points out the Democrats have received donations:

Democrats Also Got Tribal Donations

Tribe: Abramoff Arranged Dorgan Donation

"New evidence is emerging that the top Democrat on the Senate committee currently investigating Jack Abramoff got political money arranged by the lobbyist back in 2002 shortly after the lawmaker took action favorable to Abramoff's tribal clients. "

RANGEL'S WAMPUM LINKED TO SCANDAL

"Rep. Charlie Rangel has taken more donations from American Indian tribes tied to sleazy lobbyist Jack Abramoff than almost any other Democrat in the House, finance reports show."

 

[Tigger_Magic]

Pretty much sums up my position.

We need him to name names on whatever side of the aisle --- I refuse to accept that bribery is "just politics".

I can't recall who said it, but the quote is "Money is the mother's milk of politics." There is nothing that will more easily or quickly corrupt a politician than money and sadly, money and politics are so intertwined as to be inseperable. That said, there is absolutely no justification for any politician taking a bribe for any reason.

As jaded/cynical as I am, I doubt that the bright light of justice will do much more than drive out a handful of the most corrupt, but least connected, political hacks and cronies. As history repeatedly proves, corruption will inevitably return until the next big scandal breaks. SSDD

 

[JCJRSmith]

I don't know what kind of query you are doing, but it is wrong. Even the left leaning Washington Post points out the Democrats have received donations:

Democrats Also Got Tribal Donations

Try this page - mined from the FEC. It breaks down Abramoff-associated donations by Donor and Recipient (actually a nice piece of work). If you look at Jack Abramoff and his Wife, no Democrats recieved direct donations from them. If you look at the Tribes Jack swindled, then LOTS of Dems show up. Now, whether those donations were directed by Abramoff or not remains to be seen. Personally, I believe the direct donations from an admitted criminal paint a much darker picture and, unfortunately for the Republican party, most of that paint is being splashed on them.
http://www.capitaleye.org/abramoff_donor.asp

 

[Geoff_M]

Not all politicians who received Abramoff connected funds have rushed to purge the monies. You've just got to love the "have your cake and eat it too" logic exhibited by Sen. Reid:

Senator Harry Reid of Nevada, the Democratic leader, is keeping the $30,500 donated to him and his political action committees by tribes represented by Mr. Abramoff. "He feels that Abramoff was a Republican operative and this is a Republican scandal," said Mr. Reid's spokesman, Jim Manley. "He's done nothing improper."

NYT Link

All I could say after reading that was "Wow".

 

[bsnyder]

There's also this:

WASHINGTON - Rep. Patrick Kennedy (news, bio, voting record), citing his support for American Indian causes, says he has no plans to return any of the $42,500 he took from tribes represented by GOP lobbyist Jack Abramoff.

"He's proud to have their support," Kennedy chief of staff Sean Richardson said Wednesday. "He's got direct personal relationships with tribes. ... He looks at it as a human and civil rights issue, the fact that they're still not treated with the dignity and respect they deserve."

Kennedy, D-R.I., was the top congressional Democratic recipient of Abramoff-linked funds, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, a campaign watchdog group that analyzed contributions from 1999 to 2005. He was eighth overall among members of Congress.

Abramoff, who has admitted he defrauded some Indian tribes, is at the heart of a burgeoning Capitol Hill corruption scandal.

Kennedy was never lobbied by Abramoff or any of his associates and he did not receive any checks from Abramoff, Richardson said.

While President Bush and other top Republicans scrambled to give away contributions from tribes linked to Abramoff, Kennedy aides said the congressman's family, beginning with his late uncle Robert F. Kennedy in the 1960s, has championed American Indian causes.

The congressman co-founded the Native American Caucus in the House in 1997. He also raised money from several tribes for his party as the head of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee during 1999 and 2000.

The congressman has received contributions from 110 tribes and visited about a dozen reservations, Richardson said. Kennedy has accepted donations from Indian gambling interests since he first came to Congress a decade ago.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060105/ap_on_go_co/lobbyist_fraud_kennedy

I'm having trouble following the logic.

The direct Abramoff contributions to politicians amounts to influence-buying, but the tribal donations to politicians are something altogether different?

 

[yeartolate]

For yeartolate: This is a scene I would like to see.....

from Cagle's Cartoon Index

Dang, delay looks buff....he will have new lobbying firm after him (make that firm lobbyists)

 

[JennaTX]

Uh, you need to get informed:

Abramoff Lobbying & Political Contributions to Democrats, per FEC Records

Democratic Senatorial Campaign Cmte $423,480
Democratic Congressional Campaign Cmte $354,700
Democratic National Cmte $65,720

* Senator Harry Reid (D-NV) Received At Least – $68,941
* Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY) Received At Least – $12,950
* Senator John Kerry (D-MA) Received At Least – $98,550
* Senator Chuck Schumer (D-NY) Received At Least – $29,550
* Representative Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif) $3,000
* Representative Henry A. Waxman (D-Calif) $2,500
* Representative Patrick J. Kennedy (D-RI) $42,500
* Senator Max Baucus (D-MT) Received At Least – $22,500
* Senator Evan Bayh (D-IN) Received At Least – $6,500
* Senator Joseph Biden (D-DE) Received At Least – $1,250
* Senator Jeff Bingaman (D-NM) Received At Least – $2,000
* Senator Barbara Boxer (D-CA) Received At Least – $20,250
* Senator Maria Cantwell (D-WA) Received At Least – $21,765
* Senator Tom Carper (D-DE) Received At Least – $7,500
* Senator Kent Conrad (D-ND) Received At Least – $8,000
* Senator Jon Corzine (D-NJ) Received At Least – $7,500
* Senator Chris Dodd (D-CT) Received At Least – $14,792
* Senator Byron Dorgan (D-ND) Received At Least – $79,300
* Senator Dick Durbin (D-IL) Received At Least – $14,000
* Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) Received At Least – $2,000
* Senator Russ Feingold (D-WI) Received At Least – $1,250
* Senator Tom Harkin (D-IA) Received At Least – $45,750
* Senator Daniel Inouye (D-HI) Received At Least – $9,000
* Senator Jim Jeffords (I-VT) Received At Least – $2,000
* Senator Tim Johnson (D-SD) Received At Least – $14,250
* Senator Ted Kennedy (D-MA) Received At Least – $3,300
* Senator Mary Landrieu (D-LA) Received At Least – $28,000
* Senator Pat Leahy (D-VT) Received At Least – $4,000
* Senator Carl Levin (D-MI) Received At Least – $6,000
* Senator Joe Lieberman (D-CT) Received At Least – $29,830
* Senator Blanche Lincoln (D-AR) Received At Least – $14,891
* Senator Barbara Mikulski (D-MD) Received At Least – $10,550
* Senator Patty Murray (D-WA) Received At Least – $78,991
* Senator Bill Nelson (D-FL) Received At Least – $20,168
* Senator Ben Nelson (D-NE) Received At Least – $5,200
* Senator Barack Obama (D-IL) Received At Least – $7,500
* Senator Mark Pryor (D-AR) Received At Least – $2,300
* Senator Jack Reed (D-RI) Received At Least – $3,500
* Senator John Rockefeller (D-WV) Received At Least – $4,000
* Senator Ken Salazar (D-CO) Received At Least – $4,500
* Senator Paul Sarbanes (D-MD) Received At Least – $4,300
* Senator Debbie Stabenow (D-MI) Received At Least – $6,250
* Senator Ron Wyden (D-OR) Received At Least – $6,250
* Representative David E. Bonior (D-Mich) $5,000
* Representative Charles B. Rangel (D-NY) $36,000
* Representative Brad R. Carson (D-Okla) $20,600
* Representative Dale E. Kildee (D-Mich) $19,000
* Representative Steny H. Hoyer (D-Md) $17,500
* Representative Chris John (D-La) $15,000
* Representative Frank Pallone, Jr (D-NJ) $13,600
* Representative Richard A. Gephardt (D-Mo) $12,000
* Representative Barney Frank (D-Mass) $11,100
* Several others of $1,000 and $500
* Democratic Party of Michigan $23,000
* Democratic Party of Oklahoma $15,000
* Democratic Party of North Dakota $10,000
* Democratic Party of South Dakota $9,500
* Democratic Party of Minnesota $9,000
* Democratic Party of New Mexico $6,250
* Democratic Party of Montana $5,000

Grand Total Abramoff Donations to Democrats: $1,541,673

Can you please post the link where you got this information? So we can then get the Grand Total Abramoff Donations to Republicans?

I am sure that both sides are corrupt, but at least post the full picture, not just one sided figures!

 

[Judge Smails]

Associated Press
Update 8: A Look at Abramoff-Related Donations
By ELIZABETH WHITE , 01.05.2006, 05:56 PM


President Bush and many lawmakers have announced they are refunding or giving to charity some or all of the donations they or their political action committees received from once-powerful lobbyist Jack Abramoff, his associates or clients.

Abramoff pleaded guilty Tuesday to three federal charges as part of an agreement with prosecutors requiring him to cooperate in a broad corruption investigation into members of Congress.

This week:

_President Bush, $6,000 from Abramoff, his wife and the Saginaw Chippewa Indian Tribe of Michigan for the Bush-Cheney 2004 re-election campaign is being donated to the American Heart Association. Abramoff raised at least $100,000 for the campaign.

_House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Ill. A spokesman would not say how much money Hastert received or planned to donate.

_House Majority Leader Roy Blunt, R-Mo., $8,500 to charity.

_Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, $15,000 to local charities in suburban Houston.

_Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., $2,000 to be returned to the Michigan Saginaw Chippewa Indian Tribe.

_Senate Minority Whip Dick Durbin, D-Ill., $11,000 to the American Indian Center of Chicago and the American Indian Health Service of Chicago.

_Republican Maryland Gov. Robert L. Ehrlich Jr., $16,000.

Other Senate Republicans:

_Christopher Bond, R-Mo., $12,500 to the Salvation Army.

_Jim Bunning, R-Ky., $1,000 to the St. Elizabeth Medical Center inpatient hospice program.

_Saxby Chambliss, R-Ga., $1,000 to the Georgia National Guard Family Support Foundation.

_Thad Cochran, R-Miss., $8,000 to the Mississippi Hurricane Recovery Fund.

_Norm Coleman, R-Minn., $3,000 to be refunded or for charity.

_Elizabeth Dole, R-N.C., $1,000 to charity.

_Mike Enzi, R-Wyo., $1,000 to charity.

_Judd Gregg, R-N.H., $12,000 to Marguerites Place.

_Johnny Isakson, R-Ga., $5,000 refunded. Isakson also donated $4,000 to the Salvation Army in December.

_Jon Kyl, R-Ariz., refunding $4,000 to three Indian tribes.

_Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., $18,500 to the Wayside Christian Mission.

_Rick Santorum, R-Pa., $2,000 to charity.

_Gordon Smith, R-Ore., $8,500 to be refunded or for charity.

_Ted Stevens, R-Alaska, $16,500 to charity. Stevens also donated $1,000 to the Alaska chapter of the Red Cross in December.

_John Sununu, R-N.H., $3,000 to charity.

_Jim Talent, R-Mo., $2,000 to be refunded. Talent also refunded $3,000 in August 2005.

_Craig Thomas, R-Wyo., $8,000 to victims of the 2005 tornado in Wright, Wyo.

_John Thune, R-S.D., $2,000 to White Buffalo Calf Woman Society.

_John W. Warner, R-Va., $1,000 to charity.

Senate Democrats:

_Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., $2,000 to charity.

_Tim Johnson, D-S.D., $8,250 to Billy Mills Running Strong for American Indian Youth.

_Barbara Mikulski, D-Md., $5,000 to the American Indian College Fund.

House Republicans:

_Rodney Alexander, R-La., $2,000 to charity.

_Dan Burton, R-Ind., $19,000 to charity.

_Dave Camp, R-Mich., $500 to charity.

_Chris Cannon, R-Utah, $2,000.

_Eric Cantor, R-Va., about $10,000 to the William Byrd Community House.

_Barbara Cubin, R-Wyo., $250 to charity.

_Thomas M. Davis III, R-Va., amount uncertain.

_Kay Granger, R-Texas, $2,000 to Boys and Girls Club of Greater Fort Worth.

_J. Randy Forbes, R-Va., $1,000 to charity.

_Melissa Hart, R-Pa., $2,000 to two women's shelters.

_J.D. Hayworth, R-Ariz., $2,250 to the Salvation Army Katrina Disaster Fund.

_Sam Johnson, R-Texas, $2,000 to the Dallas-Fort Worth USO.

_Walter Jones, R-N.C., $1,000 to the Salvation Army.

_Donald Manzullo, R-Ill., $2,000 to be returned to the Mississippi band of the Choctaw Indian Tribe.

_Jim McCrery, R-La., $35,000 to the Salvation Army.

_Marilyn Musgrave, R-Colo., $1,000 to Crossroads Safehouse.

_Bob Ney, R-Ohio, $9,000 to charity.

_Tom Petri, R-Wis., $11,000 to charity.

_Chip Pickering, R-Miss., at least $2,500 to the Mississippi Hurricane Recovery Fund.

_Deborah Pryce, R-Ohio, $8,000 to charity.

_Hal Rogers, R-Ky., $32,000 to the UNITE Foundation.

_Paul Ryan, R-Wis., $949 to USO Operation Phone Home.

_Jim Saxton, R-N.J., $7,000 total refunded in 2004, 2005 and 2006.

_Bill Shuster, R-Pa., $1,000 to charity.

_John Sweeney, R-N.Y., $2,000 to St. Jude Children's Research Hospital.

_Curt Weldon, R-Pa., $2,000 to charity.

_Jerry Weller, R-Ill., at least $500 to charity.

_Roger Wicker, R-Miss., $250 to Mississippi Hurricane Recovery Fund.

_Heather Wilson, R-N.M., $1,000 to the Great Southwest Council of the Boy Scouts of America.

House Democrats:

_Henry Cuellar, D-Texas, $500 to be returned to the Tigua Tribe of El Paso.

_Peter DeFazio, D-Ore., $1,500 total to be returned to the Agua Caliente Band of Cahuilla Indians in California and the Michigan Saginaw Chippewa Indian Tribe.

_Eliot Engel, D-N.Y., $1,000 to be returned to the Saginaw Chippewa Tribe.

_Lane Evans, D-Ill., $2,000 to Community Caring Conference.

_Tim Holden, D-Pa., $1,000 to an animal shelter.

_Nita Lowey, D-N.Y., $2,000 to be refunded.

_Earl Pomeroy, D-N.D., $6,950 to be refunded.

_Charles Rangel, D-N.Y., $2,000 to charity.



December 2005:

_Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., $18,892 to seven tribal colleges.

_Sen. Sam Brownback, R-Kan., $42,000 to charity.

_Sen. Conrad Burns, R-Mont., about $150,000 donated to Native American charities and refunded.

_Sen. Kent Conrad, D-N.D., $3,750 to North Dakota's tribal colleges.

_Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D., $67,000 refunded.

_Rep. Mike Ferguson, R-N.J., $1,000 to the Center for Hope Hospice. Ferguson also donated $1,000 to the Children's Specialized Hospital Foundation in August 2005.

_Rep. Ernest Istook, R-Okla., $6,000 to the Oklahoma Medical Research Foundation.

_Rep. Denny Rehberg, R-Mont., $19,900 refunded and given to charity.



August-November 2005

_Rep. Frank LoBiondo, R-N.J., returned $1,000.

_Rep. Ralph Regula, R-Ohio, $1,000 to the American Indian College Fund.

_Rep. Rob Simmons, R-Conn., $1,250 to the Bush-Clinton Katrina Fund.



February 2002

_Sen. David Vitter, R-La., $6,000 refunded.



FOR THOSE INTERESTED IN KEEPING SCORE THATS 64 REPUBLICANS AND 15 DEMOCRATS AS PER FORBES MAGAZINE.

 

[Tigger_Magic]

Not all politicians who received Abramoff connected funds have rushed to purge the monies. You've just got to love the "have your cake and eat it too" logic exhibited by Sen. Reid:All I could say after reading that was "Wow".

Well, you gotta admit that Sen. Reid has chutzpah if sadly lacking in political savvy.

Maybe I am too jaded or cynical, but I wondered which was worse: (a) announcing you plan to keep the money or (b) announcing that you are giving the money away to charity. (A) is pretty bad, but (B) seems somewhat self-serving at best. I suppose for politicians that received Abamoff-tainted money it's a Catch-22.

 

[Tigger_Magic]

Thanks, Judge Smails, for that list. What is interesting is that Sen. Reid was so quick to label this solely a Republican scandal, yet he received nearly $69,000 and he doesn't appear anywhere on the list of those who refunded or contributed the tainted money to charity. Neither does Sen. Kerry, Schumer, Landrieu or Rep. Pelosi (other big recipients). What's up with that?

 

[yeartolate]

I keep seeing the lists of those who accepted money. Are folks trying to insinuate that all of the contributions are criminal?

Does the simple acceptance of contribution indicate a crime? My guess is that many Republicans and Democrats on those lists did not accept money as a bribe.

One of the aspects of the plea agreement was to show how some of the contributions were specifically bribes. (money taken = bought votes kind of thing). Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Tigger_Magic]

I keep seeing the lists of those who accepted money. Are folks trying to insinuate that all of the contributions are criminal?

Does the simple acceptance of contribution indicate a crime? My guess is that many Republicans and Democrats on those lists did not accept money as a bribe.

One of the aspects of the plea agreement was to show how some of the contributions were specifically bribes. (money taken = bought votes kind of thing). Please correct me if I am wrong.

That is an excellent point. I seriously doubt that every single contribution was a bribe per se, however, contributions like this are intended to purchase influence. There is often a very fine line there and it may take a long time for investigators to accurately determine if and when that line was crossed.

However, at this point, as with most political scandals, guilt by association is a very powerful thing. Why else would so many in Congress be ready to either refund or donate some or all of the money to charity? Of course, let's not discount the fun of playing the speculation game either. There are probably many people who have fantasies about seeing their "favorite" politician doing the "perp walk" or appearing in escape's "photo".

 

[yeartolate]

There are probably many people who have fantasies about seeing their "favorite" politician doing the "perp walk" or appearing in escape's "photo".

I have felt Delay was dirtier than most for years now. So I will admit to trying to figure out who will be cast as DeLay when Oliver Stone takes on the scandal in cinematic form.