Abortion thread

[totalia]

So, a fetus that is born prematurely at 25 weeks who cannot live on it's own outside the womb, but can live with medical assistance until his/her organs are more developed, should still be considered a parasite and therefore okay to abort? I have seen many a spontaneous abortion while working in an ER, and believe me, they are not blobs, they have ten fingers and toes, ears, eyes, nose, mouth, etc. These are very early miscarriages.

I am definitely anti-abortion in every circumstance. The only circumstance where I could even begin to understand someone else choosing to go that route would be if the mother's life were at stake. I just hate when people use the reasoning that the embryo/fetus is a parasite who can't live unless they are in utero. That just isn't true anymore. Fetus' are living outside the womb at earlier and earlier gestational ages due to the advances in medicine.

So if you are pro-choice, that is your right, but please don't rationalize it with the parasite example.

Ahh. So my friend should have allowed both her and the baby to die because abortion is wrong? Gee now who's talking murder.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

And whats your point? Just because something MAY live doesn't mean that it should or will.

A fetus is NOT an infant. It is not a child.

This baby was born at 23 weeks. She does have developmental issues...so does that mean she shouldn't have been allowed to live?
http://fourcrooks.home.att.net/

What about all the children born with various birth defects that were undetected? How are they different from her?

 

[auntpolly]

The fact is that different religious beliefs, for example, differ in opinion about when life begins. This is one reason that for me the separation of church and state is important, because we really have to try to keep religious beliefs from forming our laws. For some people, it's a baby at conception, and I respect their right to that opinion - but not their right to enforce their reiligious beliefs on me.

 

[totalia]

I beleive that in every case abortion is murder. However, other posters are right, it isn't black and white. I believe that by having sex the woman has made her choice. (Except of cases of rape or incest) She made the choice to have sex, she made the choice to take a chance of getting pregnant.

I know what I would do if faced with having to choose between my life and my childs, I would take the chance of my life ending to have the baby. But everyone has to make their own decision, and live with the consequences of that decision.

I feel that unless there is a medical reason, or a case of rape or incest abortion should not be an option. Just because someone went out and had sex and got pregnant should not be a good enough reason.

Like I said I believe that all abortion is murder. But I also believe that I have never walked in the shoes of a women who has to make that difficult choice. (Thankfully)

Again, so my friend should have chosen to let both of them die?

 

[chobie]

I am not tring to justify it being made illegal, can you point out where I have mentioned that?

I am trying to point out that we (as a society) use emotion to decide the worthiness of that same DNA that is you, me a toddler, an elderly person. It is all the same exact thing, only difference is the appearance, age and level of dependancy. So why do we not consider it perfectly legal to kill an infant, who has pretty much the same DNA and level of dependancy as a fetus?

The issue comes down to one person's body and what they can or can't do with it. A viable, born infant does not have the same level of dependency. You can take care of another person's baby, but you cannot gestate another person's fetus.

 

[totalia]

Please do us all a favor and stop insisting that every single case of abortion is an unwanted pregnancy.

 

[totalia]

The fact is that different religious beliefs, for example, differ in opinion about when life begins. This is one reason that for me the separation of church and state is important, because we really have to try to keep religious beliefs from forming our laws. For some people, it's a baby at conception, and I respect their right to that opinion - but not their right to enforce their reiligious beliefs on me.

I have to agree.

 

[TeresaNJ]

Actually, totalia, I have no idea where the "murder" issue came up. Nothing in my post remotely points to that. I feel very sorry that your friend was even in that circumstance to have to make the decision she did. As I said in my post, that is the only circumstance that I could understand making the decision to abort.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Please do us all a favor and stop insisting that every single case of abortion is an unwanted pregnancy.

Trying to keep up with the thread--but wanted to clarify that I am not saying that.

 

[totalia]

This baby was born at 23 weeks. She does have developmental issues...so does that mean she shouldn't have been allowed to live?
http://fourcrooks.home.att.net/

What about all the children born with various birth defects that were undetected? How are they different from her?

*sighs* And that means what? I'm not advocating late pregnancy abortions except in the cases that it threatens the mothers life.

I'm not saying that every single abortion is ok. I am saying that there are circumstances that it is ok.

Shall I repeat that for you?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

*sighs* And that means what? I'm not advocating late pregnancy abortions except in the cases that it threatens the mothers life.

I'm not saying that every single abortion is ok. I am saying that there are circumstances that it is ok.

Shall I repeat that for you?

No--I am reading your responses as covering all view points. Additionally reading your responding as people bring up points and addressing those particular points (and not necessarily their overall opinion). You made a statement, to which I counterpointed. I have read all of your responses and a rehash isn't necessary.

I do not know--nor care the details as it is too much for me--how 2nd trimester abortions take place--but at some point when it comes to the life of the mother--that the "baby" can just as easily be taken and survive and still save the mother's life...and that it's death at some point during gestation is unnecessary.

I emphathize with your friends situation.

 

[poohandwendy]

FWIW, I am pro life with respect for the current laws. I am not an advocate to change them because I believe the majority has spoken on this issue. And I don't think my moral beliefs should dicate the legality of the issue.

But, I also believe that the justifications are total BS. We can talk all we want about the shades of grey and hopeless cases (rape, medical nightmares, etc). And I agree, there are circumstances where it is the only option for a woman.

But the bottom line truth is that it is mostly being used as birth control and the very same women who abort because they merely didn't want that blob of cells 'at this time of her life' finds herself toting around a picture of an ultrasound, gushing about her unborn 'baby', a few years later.

Face it, we justify it for selfish reasons, for the most part. Noone wants to make anyone 'feel bad' for aborting for selfish reasons.

 

[Immelman]

I love this. if we're such a perfect species, why are one of the only mammals that can't survive birth without the intervention of our own?

 

[auntpolly]

This baby was born at 23 weeks. She does have developmental issues...so does that mean she shouldn't have been allowed to live?
http://fourcrooks.home.att.net/

What about all the children born with various birth defects that were undetected? How are they different from her?

Oh, this could open up another can of worms. There is a debate brewing about babies born that early and that small, and I don't mean to sound heartless, but whether or not they were "meant to be". When we go to such extreme lengths to keep an extremely underdeveloped baby alive - is that what God intended? I know there are miracle stories, but there are many more tragic cases.


And please don't start in on me - I've just read about this - not making a judgement about it.

 

[phillybeth]

I do not know--nor care the details as it is too much for me--how 2nd trimester abortions take place--but at some point when it comes to the life of the mother--that the "baby" can just as easily be taken and survive and still save the mother's life...and that it's death at some point during gestation is unnecessary.

And what if the baby has a serious, fatal condition? Should that baby's short life be spent in pain struggling for every breath?
Viable doesn't mean healthy. It's a RARE 23 or 24 weeker that ever gets to go home. And even rarer for that baby to be 'normal'. While I might welcome a severely handicapped child, not everyone would. What gives me the right to make that choice for someone else?

 

[chobie]

FWIW, I am pro life with respect for the current laws. I am not an advocate to change them because I believe the majority has spoken on this issue. And I don't think my moral beliefs should dicate the legality of the issue.

But, I also believe that the justifications are total BS. We can talk all we want about the shades of grey and hopeless cases (rape, medical nightmares, etc). And I agree, there are circumstances where it is the only option for a woman.

But the bottom line truth is that it is mostly being used as birth control and the very same women who abort because they merely didn't want that blob of cells 'at this time of her life' finds herself toting around a picture of an ultrasound, gushing about her unborn 'baby', a few years later.

Face it, we justify it for selfish reasons, for the most part.

Yes, I'm selfish for being pro-choice. I don't want to hear of any more women dying from illegal abortions.

 

[poohandwendy]

I love this. if we're such a perfect species, why are one of the only mammals that can't survive birth without the intervention of our own?

Who said we were a perfect species? And where is it written that we cannot survive birth without the intervention of our own? As a matter of fact, without interevention (ie abortion) we have a very good chance at survival.

 

[poohandwendy]

Yes, I'm selfish for being pro-choice. I don't want to hear of any more women dying from illegal abortions.

And neither do I.

 

[phillybeth]

I love this. if we're such a perfect species, why are one of the only mammals that can't survive birth without the intervention of our own?

We're not. Talk to a vet sometime.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Oh, this could open up another can of worms. There is a debate brewing about babies born that early and that small, and I don't mean to sound heartless, but whether or not they were "meant to be". When we go to such extreme lengths to keep an extremely underdeveloped baby alive - is that what God intended? I know there are miracle stories, but there are many more tragic cases.


And please don't start in on me - I've just read about this - not making a judgement about it.

Valid Point