Abandon Ship?

[jtntx34]

A year ago this week we were on the Wonder doing a Southern Caribbean cruise. I have the Timehop app and for days it's been showing me last year's vacation pictures and all I keep thinking is that I wish things could go back to normal. When I say normal, I mean being able to go on vacation, be in public and not need a mask, having my kids play in the sand, head to head with a stranger and not needing to give it a second thought. Being able to eat dinner inside a restaurant without fear. These are the things I miss and things I want to have back. Yes, Disney is expensive. And yes, many of us would jump through a lot of hoops to reclaim the magic we've lost. I look at these pictures and want to cry. I want these times back. I want normal back. And I can't conceive that these things I miss weren't supposed to be normal.

I understand your sentiments. I do not think you understood mine.

I hope you find many wonderful times with your family in the years to come.

 

[DCLMP]

I would say no to all of those restrictions. I might be willing to wear a mask indoors as long as everything else was normal. In the mean time I’ll keep planning my land trips.

 

[Lilsia]

I agree. But, there is an extremely high correlation between very high BMI and COVID complications. Also, I have been on quite a few scenic flights in which they weigh you before you get on. It is always confidential and only the tour operator can see your weight.

That's because there is a weight limit on the flights, it has nothing to do with your risk of getting sick. Everyone has the same risk of getting and transmitting Covid. Being overweight just affects how well YOU will do, not everyone else. The BMI thing is ridiculously stupid. Might as well test everyone's blood type too then while your at it. I am a bit overweight but type "O" blood, which is the "good blood", so am I still allowed to go on the cruise?

 

[jane01jp]

That's because there is a weight limit on the flights, it has nothing to do with your risk of getting sick. Everyone has the same risk of getting and transmitting Covid. Being overweight just affects how well YOU will do, not everyone else. The BMI thing is ridiculously stupid. Might as well test everyone's blood type too then while your at it. I am a bit overweight but type "O" blood, which is the "good blood", so am I still allowed to go on the cruise?

It was just an example. But, the medical facilities on the ships are very limited. Having people at high risk of complications could stretch those resources.

 

[jtntx34]

It was just an example. But, the medical facilities on the ships are very limited. Having people at high risk of complications could stretch those resources.

Part of the CDC framework for restart is that ships will need to have improved medical
facilities.

I am not quite sure why so many people in our nation have gotten ok with discrimination lately. Whatever the reasoning, the idea that a group of passengers should be treated differently because of a physical difference IS discriminatory. It is not suddenly ok because it is “for their own good” or “for the good of the community.”

I believe when sailing resumes, we should all be allowed sail even though there may be many restrictions some of us will decide are not personally worth it for us.

 

[CmdrThor]

Part of the CDC framework for restart is that ships will need to have improved medical
facilities.

I am not quite sure why so many people in our nation have gotten ok with discrimination lately. Whatever the reasoning, the idea that a group of passengers should be treated differently because of a physical difference IS discriminatory. It is not suddenly ok because it is “for their own good” or “for the good of the community.”

I believe when sailing resumes, we should all be allowed sail even though there may be many restrictions some of us will decide are not personally worth it for us.

Being overweight is not a protected class though so discrimination doesn't really have anything to do with it. There are plenty of rides at Walt Disney World that you cannot ride if you are a certain size or weight.

That's not to say I think it is reasonable to restrict overweight people from sailing, but it certainly isn't discrimination in the same way that people are discriminated against because of the color of their skin or their gender.

 

[brentm77]

Being overweight is not a protected class though so discrimination doesn't really have anything to do with it. There are plenty of rides at Walt Disney World that you cannot ride if you are a certain size or weight.

That's not to say I think it is reasonable to restrict overweight people from sailing, but it certainly isn't discrimination in the same way that people are discriminated against because of the color of their skin or their gender.

I'm hesitant to even jump in here, because it is getting a bit off track from cruising. But just one correction - being severely overweight can be a protected class under the Americans with Disabilities Act (depending on the cause), and it could be discriminatory under the ADA to single out individuals who are overweight due to a physiological condition*.

Rides not fitting certain guests is not usually considered discriminatory, because businesses are only obligated to provide "reasonable access," and modifying individual ride vehicles to fit every size would not usually fall within the reasonable standard.

I took a quick look, and it appears the ADA applies to cruise ships leaving from the U.S., even if they are foreign flagged, per the Supreme Court. The case is somewhat limited in scope, but can be fairly read to mean the non-discriminatory portion of the ADA applies to cruise ships leaving the U.S.

*Again - I don't want to get off track, but I think courts will slowly erode this physiological cause requirement for severe obesity to qualify for ADA protection. It's a silly standard given severe life-limiting obesity would likely have a physiological cause in most cases (ADA already covers mental impairments, even if that is the cause), and the standard doesn't align with how other disabilities are treated under the ADA.

 

[Lilsia]

It was just an example. But, the medical facilities on the ships are very limited. Having people at high risk of complications could stretch those resources.

If you ban everyone that is "high risk", you will have a very empty ship consisting of mostly children. Being overweight is not the only high risk factor. Many people have some kind of medical issues, especially as you age, that has nothing to do with their weight. In fact, many gain the weight because of their issues.

 

[jane01jp]

If you ban everyone that is "high risk", you will have a very empty ship consisting of mostly children. Being overweight is not the only high risk factor. Many people have some kind of medical issues, especially as you age, that has nothing to do with their weight. In fact, many gain the weight because of their issues.

It was just an example, This board seems to be filled with people who are extremely health conscious, which is why I chose that example.

 

[jtntx34]

Being overweight is not a protected class though so discrimination doesn't really have anything to do with it. There are plenty of rides at Walt Disney World that you cannot ride if you are a certain size or weight.

That's not to say I think it is reasonable to restrict overweight people from sailing, but it certainly isn't discrimination in the same way that people are discriminated against because of the color of their skin or their gender.

I did not say it was the same. I said it was a discriminatory practice which it would be if instituted.

I feel the same way about Disney World’s definitions regarding masks not being the neck gaiter types and not allowing for any medical exceptions. My niece is hearing impaired and cannot use masks that loop around her ears due to them interfering with her hearing aids. So, because of the corporate decision to “protect the public,” she is not welcomed there at this time (unless they have reversed that policy since I last heard). My niece actually would fit your definition of protected class, but the discriminatory policy was still allowed “for the good of the public.”

 

[Chemist]

D cthe

I did not say it was the same. I said it was a discriminatory practice which it would be if instituted.

I feel the same way about Disney World’s definitions regarding masks not being the neck gaiter types and not allowing for any medical exceptions. My niece is hearing impaired and cannot use masks that loop around her ears due to them interfering with her hearing aids. So, because of the corporate decision to “protect the public,” she is not welcomed there at this time (unless they have reversed that policy since I last heard). My niece actually would fit your definition of protected class, but the discriminatory policy was still allowed “for the good of the public.”

Can she wear masks that tie around the back of her head? That’s what I do? Or use an ear saver that holds the loops back so they aren’t around her ears?

 

[PrincessShmoo]

cannot use masks that loop around her ears

There are masks that attach around the head, not the ears. That's what I use.

.

 

[CmdrThor]

I did not say it was the same. I said it was a discriminatory practice which it would be if instituted.

I feel the same way about Disney World’s definitions regarding masks not being the neck gaiter types and not allowing for any medical exceptions. My niece is hearing impaired and cannot use masks that loop around her ears due to them interfering with her hearing aids. So, because of the corporate decision to “protect the public,” she is not welcomed there at this time (unless they have reversed that policy since I last heard). My niece actually would fit your definition of protected class, but the discriminatory policy was still allowed “for the good of the public.”

There are exceptions for protections for disabilities. The business must consider reasonable accommodations, but they can decline to provide accommodations if they present a direct threat to other guests. In the case of neck gaiter masks that is definitely the case since those are typically single layer and also usually do not fit snuggly enough to provide any protection. Our school allows kids to wear them and I see kids walking in holding them over their nose then they fall off after they drop their hand. You can use masks that tie around the back of the head so there is nothing stopping from your niece using a mask like that.

If there were a BMI limit for cruising it would have to be based on the same direct threat logic. I don't believe their increased risk of becoming severely ill with COVID would necessarily constitute a direct threat to other guests other than the limited medical facilities on board. The whole point though is if there is a valid reason to exclude such guests, it can be legal. That is not the case with protected classes.

 

[Chemist]

I would assume an audiologists office would have all sorts of masks that work with hearing aids.

 

[gismo1554]

So this has been an interesting one for me and I was thinking about this not just in terms of a Disney cruise but in general.

1. One way halls/stairs on the ships -> absolutely fine as long as I know how to get to my room

2. Designated hours that you can use your balcony (to prevent people on their balconies on either side of you, above or below you) -> I don't see how this would be enforceable so no comment

3. Mandatory vitamin D/zinc supplements -> absolutely fine already take and one less thing to pack

4. BMI limits -> again unenforceable. You can't ask someone for weight and height and people could just lie and then turn up. You just wouldn't be able to deal with the amount of negative implications including discrimination (Discrimination by the way is the unfair or prejudicial treatment of people and groups based on characteristics such as race, gender, age or sexual orientation these are just examples and therefore this would still be a form of discrimination - just because we currently don't think of weight/bmi as one doesn't mean legally it isn't). I can certainly see them saying you must be vaccinated but just can't see them saying anything relating to weight etc as it would open a whole can of worms and lawsuits.

5. Elevator use by exception only, with sign up times, etc. -> again how would they enforce this and also this is disability impacting so therefore you would end up again with a load of issues there. I think they might try and restrict elevators to those who require it for medical reasons and I completely understand that but again they wouldn't be able to enforce as how would you prove you needed it?

6. Quarantine times before and after embarkation -> absolutely fine but no idea how they would actually enforce. After you leave the ship they have no control over you so unless they insist you book flights with them and pre-post hotels then they couldn't control this. Also a lot of countries have their own quarantine rules so they could end up enforcing double quarantine and then would get complaints.

7. No daily cabin cleaning/turn down service -> depends on length of cruise but I could deal with this as long as you can request new towels etc just in case. I wouldn't mind on a short cruise (4-7 nights) but anything longer I feel would need something.

8. Sign-up times for shuffleboard, miniature golf, ping pong, or basketballs -> absolutely fine

9. No one on upper decks during breezy conditions, since germs could carry further, faster -> absolutely fine but not sure its required

10. Confinement to quarters during certain times of day -> so this really depends on the purpose. If for example they say no one around until after 7am or something due to increase cleaning protocol I could live with it. If it was everyone back to their cabins between 2-3pm or something like that I'm not sure

11. No childrens' clubs -> not an issue for me as no kids

12. Two meals per day, to accommodate more distanced dining with an option for an additional charge room service for a third meal -> Why would you be charged for the third meal? Room service is free so I feel this would never be added. They could say 2 meals and then room service for the third but I don't see how they could charge. You've paid for three meals. That said I wouldn't like this restriction but I could live with it if room service had no charge.

13. Lottery system for shows and movies with a guarantee of one show per passenger -> One show per cruise? I think this would make me rethink a Disney ship. Other cheaper cruise lines then I wouldn't mind so much but part of the extra cost of Disney is for the shows I feel

I don't have an issue with the mask wearing around the ship and don't have an issue with booking times for things like the pools etc in advance or even having to sign up to activities in advance.

 

[18sprint]

1. One way halls/stairs on the ships

I wouldn’t have a problem if the tried but I don’t think people would follow it, (like grocery stores)

2. Designated hours that you can use your balcony (to prevent people on their balconies on either side of you, above or below you

Nope. If I paid for a balcony room, I would want to use it whenever the mood struck.

3. Mandatory vitamin D/zinc supplements

Sure. I take a ton of vitamins anyways

4. BMI limits

I wouldn’t have a problem with it but let’s face it that the Us is ver pro fat and the vast majority of Americans are considered obese

5. Elevator use by exception only, with sign up times, etc.

Not a deal breaker for me.

6. Quarantine times before and after embarkation

Nope. I can’t take off an extra week vacation to quarantine near port before and after the cruise.

7. No daily cabin cleaning/turn down service

Nope. Unless the price reflects the fact that my room isn’t being serviced.

8. Sign-up times for shuffleboard, miniature golf, ping pong, or basketballs

Nope. We like to be spontaneous and experience different activities when we are in the mood.

9. No one on upper decks during breezy conditions, since germs could carry further, faster

Nope. More crowded everywhere else

10. Confinement to quarters during certain times of day

Absolutely not

11. No childrens' clubs
I dint have small kids but I would guess that people who do would have a big problem with this.

12. Two meals per day, to accommodate more distanced dining with an option for an additional charge room service for a third meal

2 meals a day would be fine with me but we are not huge eaters. I would assume that snack cart/quick food would still be available in this scenario.

13. Lottery system for shows and movies with a guarantee of one show per passenger

Nope. If I am paying to be entertained, the the cruise ship would need to figure out a way to accommodate everyone that they allowed to book.

I realize these are hypotheticals but If your list is any kind of indication of what cruising will look like in the near future, I will take a hard pass.

I agree with you on all your points. If these 'rules' were put in place, I would certainly opt out. I am not paying the overpriced amounts that Disney charges for anything on this list. Sounds like we would be escorted to our cabin, locked in and only released when its our turn....Ok people, it's time for your recreation period.

 

[davidher]

BMI Index Limits.... LOL that exclude 75% of us Americans.

 

[AquaDame]

Reminder that this forum is not the place for mask debates. We will continue to remove them.

 

[gismo1554]

I know this is Carnival but I would assume the rules are likely to be very similar (https://www.travelpulse.com/news/cr...-URCMO5DaaqPODkI09_9MIh1CJd7fD2ixTWeEqWIEEaOI) I don't think there is anything in here that would be a complete "no way" for me. Yes somethings like the COVID test would require more planning and probably restrict the type of cruise I could do i.e. possibly having to do the cruise at the start of a holiday rather than the end so I don't have to find somewhere in a foreign country to do the test, but I don't see issues with the other things.

 

[mevelandry]

I know this is Carnival but I would assume the rules are likely to be very similar (https://www.travelpulse.com/news/cr...-URCMO5DaaqPODkI09_9MIh1CJd7fD2ixTWeEqWIEEaOI) I don't think there is anything in here that would be a complete "no way" for me. Yes somethings like the COVID test would require more planning and probably restrict the type of cruise I could do i.e. possibly having to do the cruise at the start of a holiday rather than the end so I don't have to find somewhere in a foreign country to do the test, but I don't see issues with the other things.

They left out the part where they said that you might not be able to get back on the ship from an excursion if they think you have COVID/if you test positive and then you´re on your own and you have to organize and pay to return home after quarantining in a foreign country.

Anyway guys, if I was you, I would make sure to have a passport from now on, just in case.