A simple DVC question that Ive gotten 3 different answers too

[disneydiehard2011]

Hi All,
Just back from a vaca at WDW- stayed at SSR using points from a friend ($4 per point for a weeks stay in a 1 bedroom villa for $800- )
So we loved the DVC and are in serious discussions to buy in. Sorry for the buildup to the question, but what we thought was an easy one got us 3 different answers and not one really made sense. So here is it:

If I buy 150 points TODAY will this cover me for the life of the contract to get the same room rate. In other words, will SSR- which cost me 197 points for a sat-sat visit this past week still cost me 197 points in say 2025? Am I locked in at the point rate of today for the lenth of the contract?

We only ask because it looks like the point "costs" go up each year. So 3 years ago it cost 170pts for a week at SSR in a one bedroom villa. If points go up say 3 points a nite per year, by the end of my 50 year contract then my 150 points will only get me 3 days.

HOpefully this post make sense. We were told the following 3 things (by 3 different people)-

1- that we were locking in the "price" of the room at say $300 per night at todays rates and that a calculation of our points would "convert" them to that cost going forward. IE, we would always pay $300 per night for the next 50 years.

2- that we were locked in at the points per night when we buy. So if its 12pts a night for SSR on the day we buy, thats what we pay.

3- we went to the preview center at SSR for a tour and talked to a sales person. Her take was that the points for a unit never changed but that the cost per season may change. But it had to balance out on an average that never changed. So if the points for SSR went from 12 to 14 per night during the vaule season, then they would be a corresponding drop in another season (say a drop from 20 to 18 per night in the high season). this one made the least sense to me and was the most confusing but this was also the certified sales person.

So, can someone tell me how it all works? If I buy 150 points today will they get me the same amount of nights in 30 years? THanks in advance for any help.

 

[BSil]

If I understand your question correctly it is: "Will it cost exactly the same number of points to stay where I just stayed 30 or 50 years from now?" My understanding is that it can and does change. However, if Disney changes the cost on the room type that you are talking about then some other room type will see a decrease in point cost. The total number of points to stay at a resort must be the same total number, but Disney can reallocate point costs, as long as the total number is the same. For instance say there is a total point allocation of 100 points (this is totally made up). A studio costs 20, a 1BR is 30 and a 2BR is 50. Now Disney decides they want to change the cost of the 1BR to 40, then they need to make adjustments to other room types to keep the total at 100. So, they could essentially lower the cost of the 2BR, and the studio to offset the increase to the 1BR, but the total number of points must still total 100. I hope this makes at least a little sense. This is my understanding of how it works, but I'm sure one of the older DVC experts has a much more specific answer to this question. I guess the long and short of it is:
1. Your exact point cost to stay in a room like you just stayed in can change.
2. If the point cost changes then something else must be changed so the total number of points is consistent.

 

[wen-tom]

I have always been led to believe option 3 on your list and that was what our guide told us when we signed up years ago.

I havent worked it out over the years but I have always thought that to be correct. The points per night may rise at some point but there would always be a drop to balance it.

Not sure if that helps

 

[HtomSirveaux]

They can change the points per night assigned to specific days of the week and/or seasons, but when all is said and done the total for the year cannot change (in other words if you did the math and added together the points needed to stay in that room every night for a year, that total cannot change)

 

[mjc2003]

Hi All,
Just back from a vaca at WDW- stayed at SSR using points from a friend ($4 per point for a weeks stay in a 1 bedroom villa for $800- )
So we loved the DVC and are in serious discussions to buy in. Sorry for the buildup to the question, but what we thought was an easy one got us 3 different answers and not one really made sense. So here is it:

If I buy 150 points TODAY will this cover me for the life of the contract to get the same room rate. In other words, will SSR- which cost me 197 points for a sat-sat visit this past week still cost me 197 points in say 2025? Am I locked in at the point rate of today for the lenth of the contract?

We only ask because it looks like the point "costs" go up each year. So 3 years ago it cost 170pts for a week at SSR in a one bedroom villa. If points go up say 3 points a nite per year, by the end of my 50 year contract then my 150 points will only get me 3 days.

HOpefully this post make sense. We were told the following 3 things (by 3 different people)-

1- that we were locking in the "price" of the room at say $300 per night at todays rates and that a calculation of our points would "convert" them to that cost going forward. IE, we would always pay $300 per night for the next 50 years.

2- that we were locked in at the points per night when we buy. So if its 12pts a night for SSR on the day we buy, thats what we pay.

3- we went to the preview center at SSR for a tour and talked to a sales person. Her take was that the points for a unit never changed but that the cost per season may change. But it had to balance out on an average that never changed. So if the points for SSR went from 12 to 14 per night during the vaule season, then they would be a corresponding drop in another season (say a drop from 20 to 18 per night in the high season). this one made the least sense to me and was the most confusing but this was also the certified sales person.

So, can someone tell me how it all works? If I buy 150 points today will they get me the same amount of nights in 30 years? THanks in advance for any help.

#3 is the correct answer. The number of points for a room for the year will not change. However, they can change from season to season. Here is an example: Let's say that a 1 BR at SSR costs 10,000 points, just for example sake, for the year (to rent it every night). That 10,000 points will not change. However, if the points are too high at one time of year, or on a weekday vs a weekend, and the resort is packed at certain times and empty during other times, DVD will adjust the point allocations so that the occupancy balances out.
So to answer your question, there is no way to know if the 197 points will change but they will not go up without another week/time of year going down. Who knows, it could go down. The only thing that WILL go up is your MF's, which increase a small % every year.

To further explain, there used to be a bigger points disparity between weekend and weekday stays, so everybody was staying Sun-Thurs and the resort occupancy was way down on the weekend. So they lowered the weekend points and raised the weekdays. It still adds up to the same amount of ponts. It's all done to balance occupancy.

The 197 points for the week you went will only increase if another week decreases.

This might not be the best description, but this is how I explained it to somebody else: Think of points as dollars. So if it costs $10,000 to rent a 1 BR for 365 days at SSR, that $10,000 for the year CANNOT increase. DVC can only charge $10,000 for the year, so the total they are charging for the 52 weeks can only equal $10,000 (by law). So if your $197 weekly rental goes up, another week must come down.

 

[crisi]

Here is the deal.

On a yearly basis, some weeks will move from season to season - namely Easter. So if you always go "the second week in April" that will be in Magic Season most years and premier season some years.

On an occasional basis, Disney has the right to "rebalance" points. They have done this three times in fifteen years. This means that they've decided that - for instance - early December is too cheap and they make that cost more points. But in order to do that, they must lower the points somewhere else. The last two moves were really one move over two years that lowered the cost on weekends, but made weekdays more expensive. So those that stayed for a full week were usually points neutral, those that stayed for long weekends came out ahead, but a lot of DISers "saved" points by coming in on Sunday and leaving Friday - and they ended up short points.

 

[Chuck S]

There is a fixed number of points at each resort. The point charts needed for any night or season can change, but there must be a corresponding change to another night or season so that the number of points required to book the entire resort for one year do not change.

Assuming you received a POS (Public Offering Statement) at the time that you toured with the DVC Guide, somewhere in that book there should be a maximum reallocation point chart, showing what the number of point would be IF every night cost the same number of points every day of the year for that unit type.

Point eallocations, historically, have been pretty rare within DVC. The first was in 1996, then there were two recently. I think we'll see them stay stable for a while, with the only changes being seasonal changes beause of Thanksgiving and Easter dates.

 

[LisaS]

1- that we were locking in the "price" of the room at say $300 per night at todays rates and that a calculation of our points would "convert" them to that cost going forward. IE, we would always pay $300 per night for the next 50 years.

Your annual dues will increase on average 3%-3.5% per year. Over the life of your contract, you will pay much more in dues than you pay for your initial purchase so be sure to factor that into your cost calculations.

 

[Disneycouple99]

The short answer is maybe. The total amount of points for a resort shall never change unless they build more rooms to the resort. The number of points for a single night can change if there is a change somewhere else. There has been 3 such changes over the history of DVC with the 2 most recent in last couple of years. What has happen recently is that the weekend points were almost double the week points and everybody were only staying sunday to thursday and checking out to stay on cash for the weekend. This is a problem for timeshares in that the want 100% full all the time.
Disney has move the points from the weekend and spread them out over the week. This caused people who brought just enought point for a sun. to thur. stay to be short on points. So it might have cost 12 points for the week and 24 for the weekend now in cost 15 for the week and 18 for the weekend. What alot of people say to buy a 10% buffer on the points, so if you need 150 buy 165 to be safe.

 

[disneynutz]

Buy extra points because depending on the changes that Disney makes you may be a little short or you may need to borrow every year.

Bill

 

[crisi]

Buy extra points because depending on the changes that Disney makes you may be a little short or you may need to borrow every year.

Bill

I disagree.

Buy the points you need. If you have to borrow each year, borrow. Chances are pretty good that by the time you have "the year without points," a break from Disney for a year will not be the worst idea. And if it is, you can rent points, transfer points in from someone else, buy a few points from Disney, take a vacation on cash.

 

[DebbieB]

#3 is the correct answer. The number of points for a room for the year will not change. However, they can change from season to season. Here is an example: Let's say that a 1 BR at SSR costs 10,000 points, just for example sake, for the year (to rent it every night). That 10,000 points will not change. However, if the points are too high at one time of year, or on a weekday vs a weekend, and the resort is packed at certain times and empty during other times, DVD will adjust the point allocations so that the occupancy balances out.
So to answer your question, there is no way to know if the 197 points will change but they will not go up without another week/time of year going down. Who knows, it could go down. The only thing that WILL go up is your MF's, which increase a small % every year.

To further explain, there used to be a bigger points disparity between weekend and weekday stays, so everybody was staying Sun-Thurs and the resort occupancy was way down on the weekend. So they lowered the weekend points and raised the weekdays. It still adds up to the same amount of ponts. It's all done to balance occupancy.

The 197 points for the week you went will only increase if another week decreases.

This might not be the best description, but this is how I explained it to somebody else: Think of points as dollars. So if it costs $10,000 to rent a 1 BR for 365 days at SSR, that $10,000 for the year CANNOT increase. DVC can only charge $10,000 for the year, so the total they are charging for the 52 weeks can only equal $10,000 (by law). So if your $197 weekly rental goes up, another week must come down.

This isn't correct. The total points for the entire resort cannot change but it can change from room type to room type. In other words, grand villas could go down and studios & 1 bedrooms up. Which is what happened when they rebalanced the point charts in 2010 & 2011.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

And just to confirm - #1 & #2 were not correct. Dues increase and if you have a specific time you always go the points required might change. How that can happen has been explained above.

 

[disneydiehard2011]

Thanks all. So i guess the biggie is making sure i have enough points.

Oh, we originally were thinking of doing a dvc resale but have heard that Disney clamped down on these and that they have limited what you can use the points for (ie, cant use for disney cruise line, rci, etc). is that the case? Obviously want to get the most for the points.

thanks again all.

 

[disneynutz]

Thanks all. So i guess the biggie is making sure i have enough points.

Oh, we originally were thinking of doing a dvc resale but have heard that Disney clamped down on these and that they have limited what you can use the points for (ie, cant use for disney cruise line, rci, etc). is that the case? Obviously want to get the most for the points.

thanks again all.

You have a lot of learning to do.

The resale limitations that Disney imposed is designed to make the uneducated buyer spend more money buying direct. Most, if not all of the non DVC offerings which can and have changed by the way, are not a good value compared to their cash equivalent and their availability is usually limited.

Bill

 

[Chuck S]

You have a lot of learning to do.

The resale limitations that Disney imposed is designed to make the uneducated buyer spend more money buying direct. Most, if not all of the non DVC offerings which can and have changed by the way, are not a good value compared to their cash equivalent and their availability is usually limited.

Bill

True, while it may not be the best financial value for the use of your points, many members do indeed trade their points for cruises and other venues. The "value" of those trades are in opinion of each individual owner. Some members may see a real value in using points for a cruise, as the points are pre-paid and require little "out-of-pocket" cash. So in that respect, it would be better for some people to consider direct purchase over resale.

If your primary reason for DVC is only for use at a DVC resort, then resale would be the most economical way to go.

 

[disneynutz]

True, while it may not be the best financial value for the use of your points, many members do indeed trade their points for cruises and other venues. The "value" of those trades are in opinion of each individual owner. Some members may see a real value in using points for a cruise, as the points are pre-paid and require little "out-of-pocket" cash. So in that respect, it would be better for some people to consider direct purchase over resale.

If your primary reason for DVC is only for use at a DVC resort, then resale would be the most economical way to go.

Many people do things for convenience and/or they don't want to take the time to get the best value or maybe saving money isn't important to them.

Most of the non DVC offerings are there as a marketing tool. If Disney really wanted to offer something substantial they would offer all of the RCI locations, not just a select number and they would offer DCL with less restrictions. The small print that reads "subject to availability" on the DVD advertising can really make a difference if you don't read it or understand the impact when you become a member.

Bill

 

[dvc_john]

This isn't correct. The total points for the entire resort cannot change but it can change from room type to room type. In other words, grand villas could go down and studios & 1 bedrooms up. Which is what happened when they rebalanced the point charts in 2010 & 2011.

I disagree with this statement (the part about reallocating by room type in 2010/2011).
While there may have been a very slight shift in points for a room type, by far the greatest change was weekday vs weekend.
For example, at OKW, the biggest point change for a week in any season in a studio or 1-br was 4 points for the whole week.
But for a single weekday the increase for a studio or 1-br was an increase of 2 to 10 points, and a single weekend day was a decrease of 7 to 23 points.

 

[Sandisw]

Thanks all. So i guess the biggie is making sure i have enough points.

Oh, we originally were thinking of doing a dvc resale but have heard that Disney clamped down on these and that they have limited what you can use the points for (ie, cant use for disney cruise line, rci, etc). is that the case? Obviously want to get the most for the points.

thanks again all.

My suggestion would be to look to see what your room would cost in one of the higher seasons and use that as a guide as they can put different time periods in different seasons.

We currently travel in the summer, Magic Season, one of the highest so we knew going in that when we were retired and could more regularly travel during the fall and winter, when points were less, we would have more than enough.

Of course, we also knew that they could readjust and those times might not stay that way but by going with the higher of the charts, we felt we were covered, on average, for how things would play out over the next 20 to 30 years.

Good luck!

 

[Chuck S]

Many people do things for convenience and/or they don't want to take the time to get the best value or maybe saving money isn't important to them.

Convenience is a value to many people. Consider the DDP, which really saves little, if any, money over the course of a 7 to 10 day WDW stay. It is a convenience package that many, many people purchase. I may not see any value in it for myself, just as I don't see the value in trading outside the DVC system, but others do perceive a value. For those that do see a value in trading, they would need to purchase direct.