A sad choice for my friend

[tlbwriter]

While it's painful and humiliating to think of being the one who is mentally impaired to that point, it's also painful to think of my DH trying to forge ahead on his own - trying to be both mom and dad to our kids, not having a helpmate and confidante to come to for help, advice, solace, and all the million and one other things we get from a SO. And it's even more painful to think of my kids - especially my 8yo DD - spending the rest of their lives without a mom. A little girl being raised by a dad and a much-older brother isn't the end of the world and, in our case, there would be plenty of love. But I wouldn't want my condition to deprive my daughter of someone to guide her through all the "girl things" in life. And if it were my husband who became incapacitated, I don't think he would want either of our kids to live the rest of their lives without the benefit of having a dad and all the things that encompasses.

Thanks for writing this - it helped me decide how I feel. At first, I pictured myself in the wife's shoes and I thought "Of course I would stay by my husband's side! In sickness and in health - that was my promise!" But now I think about being in the husband's shoes, and having my husband and daughter sentenced to a life without a wife/mother figure, and no, I do not want that for them.

 

[disneydreamersx4]

Quote:
Originally Posted by crusoe2 View Post
While it's painful and humiliating to think of being the one who is mentally impaired to that point, it's also painful to think of my DH trying to forge ahead on his own - trying to be both mom and dad to our kids, not having a helpmate and confidante to come to for help, advice, solace, and all the million and one other things we get from a SO. And it's even more painful to think of my kids - especially my 8yo DD - spending the rest of their lives without a mom. A little girl being raised by a dad and a much-older brother isn't the end of the world and, in our case, there would be plenty of love. But I wouldn't want my condition to deprive my daughter of someone to guide her through all the "girl things" in life. And if it were my husband who became incapacitated, I don't think he would want either of our kids to live the rest of their lives without the benefit of having a dad and all the things that encompasses.

quote: tlbwriter
Thanks for writing this - it helped me decide how I feel. At first, I pictured myself in the wife's shoes and I thought "Of course I would stay by my husband's side! In sickness and in health - that was my promise!" But now I think about being in the husband's shoes, and having my husband and daughter sentenced to a life without a wife/mother figure, and no, I do not want that for them.

both of you pp, thank you for saying what we feel. We agree with you.
__________________

 

[Kathi OD]

I know I'm coming late to the party....but wanted to comment.

I'm really curious if he can do all the things you say he can do why is he still in the nursing home? and who is paying for that?

I thought he was more of a paralyzed person incapable of doing anything for himself but he sounds pretty capable.

I think a big question is why is she keeping him in the nursing home and not at home? I know people who have cared for folks worse at home. It may make her feel more married if he was at home.


I know this isn't part of the OP but it is curious. Sounds like she has already made a big part of the decision.

My guess is that he can't be left alone and she has to work to support the remainder of the family.

A very good friend is living the same story. Twelve years ago, his wife had an AVM and stroked on the operating table, leaving her with the cognitive abilities of maybe a 7 year old. She knows she is married, but doesn't understand what that means. She looks at him like he is a big brother.

She lives at home and receives various therapeutic services on a daily basis, some of it paid for by insurance, some paid for by government agencies. She is not alone during the day while he is at work. In the evening he is the one responsible for her care.

He has repeatedly said he will never put her in a nursing home. I'm not so sure that this is the best decision for him. He under an unbelievable amount of stress as a result of her illness and caring for her. He never, ever has a break (neither of them are from this area).

@Agri - I don't know how he would react if she were to stop visiting (which she has told me she would never do). When she and their daughters visit, he always recognizes them. She has told me that his reaction is like a happy surprise - like 'oh, hi guys!', like friends visiting him.

Something to think about. If she divorces him, she may no longer be welcome to visit him, especially since his family is so set against the divorce. They will be making the rules as regards his care. They may allow the children to come, but not her.

I honestly don't know what I would do in her situation. DH and I have discussed this type of scenario frequently over the years. Both of us have said that we wouldn't expect the other to remain married. After over 30 years though, I suspect that neither of us would leave the marriage.

 

[livie1205]

I would only leave if I felt my life, or the life of my children were in danger. As in an abusive situation. I would hope that he would/could seek help for his situation. I coudl not move on with another man knowing my DH was still on this earth. I know I would not leave in the case of infidelity. You are right, it is hard to say what you would do unless you have been there. This might be TMI but I had a severe issue with depression a few years back. Severe as in, could not get out of bed. Verbally abusive to my DH. He stuck with me until we got the issue resolved. At that time, I was effectively not the same person he married but he still stuck with me. He had to do everything for our DD and the home as I couldn't even get out of bed. At the time, he didn't know if there was an end in sight. I don't know how much would have been too much but I do know that he stuck with me.

It is very sad that you would show your dd that someone should stay with a man (even stayed married) that hits you...its sad that if your dh had many affairs or did drugs you would stay married, you may think you are showing her that you need to honor vows but if that was the case she could end up married to someone who she would let do those things to her!There is NO good reason to stay married to a MAN LIKE THAT NOT EVEN VOWS..now those things may never occur but its sad that this day and time someone would put up with ANYTHING someone does for the sake of vows...I love my dh BUT if he ever hurt me or the kids I would divorce him so fast he wouldnt know what hit him!also by saying you wouldnt leave him for cheating...you do relize that could kill YOU? How are you HONORING your vows if you leave him and just not divorce?THAT is not how the bible looks at marriage...you cant just pick and choose which parts make you feel better about yourself.

 

[Scurvy]

It is very sad that you would show your dd that someone should stay with a man (even stayed married) that hits you...its sad that if your dh had many affairs or did drugs you would stay married, you may think you are showing her that you need to honor vows but if that was the case she could end up married to someone who she would let do those things to her!There is NO good reason to stay married to a MAN LIKE THAT NOT EVEN VOWS..now those things may never occur but its sad that this day and time someone would put up with ANYTHING someone does for the sake of vows...I love my dh BUT if he ever hurt me or the kids I would divorce him so fast he wouldnt know what hit him!also by saying you wouldnt leave him for cheating...you do relize that could kill YOU? How are you HONORING your vows if you leave him and just not divorce?THAT is not how the bible looks at marriage...you cant just pick and choose which parts make you feel better about yourself.

I debated whether to say anything about this but posts like this really rub me the wrong way. The person you are responding to seems to have tried very hard to explain what she believes and what she would do without trying to convince anyone else that their beliefs are incorrect, and without debating religion (which is of course not allowed on this board). Who are you to tell her that her beliefs are wrong? Just because they aren't right for you and don't fit with your beliefs doesn't mean that they are wrong for her.

 

[ccgirl]

It is very sad that you would show your dd that someone should stay with a man (even stayed married) that hits you...its sad that if your dh had many affairs or did drugs you would stay married, you may think you are showing her that you need to honor vows but if that was the case she could end up married to someone who she would let do those things to her!There is NO good reason to stay married to a MAN LIKE THAT NOT EVEN VOWS..now those things may never occur but its sad that this day and time someone would put up with ANYTHING someone does for the sake of vows...I love my dh BUT if he ever hurt me or the kids I would divorce him so fast he wouldnt know what hit him!also by saying you wouldnt leave him for cheating...you do relize that could kill YOU? How are you HONORING your vows if you leave him and just not divorce?THAT is not how the bible looks at marriage...you cant just pick and choose which parts make you feel better about yourself.

And it's very sad you are teaching your children to judge others. Judge not. I understand others would make other choices than me but I do not judge them. And I can pick and choose what ever parts I want just like everyone else. After all, it is MY life.

 

[GoldieSaysMeep]

When I made my vows they were until death do us part.

 

[GoldieSaysMeep]

I would only leave if I felt my life, or the life of my children were in danger.

This.

 

[ccgirl]

I debated whether to say anything about this but posts like this really rub me the wrong way. The person you are responding to seems to have tried very hard to explain what she believes and what she would do without trying to convince anyone else that their beliefs are incorrect, and without debating religion (which is of course not allowed on this board). Who are you to tell her that her beliefs are wrong? Just because they aren't right for you and don't fit with your beliefs doesn't mean that they are wrong for her.

Thank you. We were posting at the same time. I was really trying very hard not to judge anyone else or say anyone was right/wrong for their choices so I am glad you took that from my posts.

To each their own. Again, to the OP, it is great that you are there to support your friend and not judge her for whatever decision she makes. I am sure it is a VERY difficult position your friend and her entire family is in. I hope she finds peace.

 

[Rendahlia]

Long time lurker with almost no posts here....

This thread has turned a little ugly. I have but one hope for everyone who read this thread. PLEASE discuss this with your significant other. Have it tonight and figure out how each other feels about the subject.

If you ever get into a situation like this, at least you will know how your partner feels and can weigh their input before you make a decision.

 

[JessicaR]

I have enjoyed reading this thread. I don't for a second think that anyone is going to change their opinion. We feel how we feel.

I feel terrible for this woman and ultimately hope that she makes a choice that she can live with. Not a choice that others make for her.

I stated how I felt early on and that hasnt changed. Should I ever find myself in her shoes I will be able to say what I would/did do.

One thing is for certain I could never judge another for their decision.

 

[ccgirl]

Long time lurker with almost no posts here....

This thread has turned a little ugly. I have but one hope for everyone who read this thread. PLEASE discuss this with your significant other. Have it tonight and figure out how each other feels about the subject.

If you ever get into a situation like this, at least you will know how your partner feels and can weigh their input before you make a decision.

Great suggestion That way the SO knows exactly how the SO feels and perhaps won't be so torn???? Such a touch situation to be in.

 

[NikitaZee]

This has been interesting for me too. Everyone is right - it's so hard to say what you'd do in these circumstances. I have been speaking to my husband a lot about these issues, and even we don't agree wholeheartedly. He said he would stand by me, and although he told me I should do what feels right for me, I feel in my heart that he would want me to stay with him as well. That knowledge would weigh heavy on my mind if I ever found myself in a spot like this one. I could imagine wanting to move on at some point, like my friend. Until this happened, we had discussed end of life issues, life support, etc., but not taking into consideration a situation quite like this one. I am looking more closely into long term care insurance, but right now it seems too expensive an option due to my husband's line of work. I think my friend will eventually file for divorce, she just needs time to make peace with her decision. I will definitely be there to help her. Thanks to everyone!

 

[snowywhite89]

I am not sure where I left off reading so I just skipped to the last page.

This has been interesting for me too. Everyone is right - it's so hard to say what you'd do in these circumstances. I have been speaking to my husband a lot about these issues, and even we don't agree wholeheartedly. He said he would stand by me, and although he told me I should do what feels right for me, I feel in my heart that he would want me to stay with him as well. That knowledge would weigh heavy on my mind if I ever found myself in a spot like this one. I could imagine wanting to move on at some point, like my friend. Until this happened, we had discussed end of life issues, life support, etc., but not taking into consideration a situation quite like this one. I am looking more closely into long term care insurance, but right now it seems too expensive an option due to my husband's line of work. I think my friend will eventually file for divorce, she just needs time to make peace with her decision. I will definitely be there to help her. Thanks to everyone!

Do you think this conversation made it easier or harder to make this decision in the future?

I am glad to see my bringing up LTC and LTD insurance has started you thinking about LTC insurance.

 

[nathalee81]

Talk about judging. Just because someone has a different point of view does not mean they are judging. I would not judge this woman for one moment if she would make a different decision than I would. I was not put in this earth to judge other people.

I am not judging those that choose to divorce their spouses. I have said before I have many friends and family members divorced and I do not love them any less or think differently of them. I have no idea why people feel the need to judge me for choosing not to divorce mine.

Opinions were asked for and I gave mine. There are always two sides to every opinion.

I am very sorry, but you are judging, as is everyone who said they wouldn't leave on account of their vows.

Most people's vows include "until death do you part" in some way. So by saying "well it is in my vows" and that is why I wouldn't leave, is implying those that disagree with you don't place the same importance on their vows.
Which is untrue and judgemental.

My husband and I said our vows with all the honesty and faith in our hearts. I respect them and have held true to them, as has he. The vows we said are no less important than those you all have exchanged with your significant others, so please don't belittle them because I don't believe my husband should be chained to me should I have the mental capacity of a child and not be able to be a wife to him.

 

[NikitaZee]

I am not sure where I left off reading so I just skipped to the last page.






Do you think this conversation made it easier or harder to make this decision in the future?

I am glad to see my bringing up LTC and LTD insurance has started you thinking about LTC insurance.

At this very moment, I'd have to say harder. I wouldn't have a clear conscience if I wanted to move on with my life, because I would feel in my heart I was letting him down and not honoring him the way he would honor me. NOT that I think I would be dishonoring him, but I would definitely be swayed by guilt. So many complicated emotions involved.

 

[jeepgirl30]

OP, I truly feel for your friend.

I did not read every response but read the first 9-10 pages! One thing I kept thinking is how does he feel about being married and a dad? If his mental state is preteen he may not understand what that means or how it happend. I don't mean the physical part but can he imagine himself being a true father? I would think the confusion he feels trying to understand being married is hard on him, maybe that pressure is a source of some of the outbursts?

What about the kids? What if they want someone to play ball with them or what if they want a man's advise? Growing up I always went to my dad, very rarely my mom for advise. These kids may end up resenting their father figure as someone "younger". I am sure they love their father but he is no longer able to be a father.

I am very thankful I am not facing this woman's challenges and decisions. I'm also thankful I am not the one waking up as a preteen to find out i have a marriage and children.

 

[Scurvy]

I am very sorry, but you are judging, as is everyone who said they wouldn't leave on account of their vows.

Most people's vows include "until death do you part" in some way. So by saying "well it is in my vows" and that is why I wouldn't leave, is implying those that disagree with you don't place the same importance on their vows.
Which is untrue and judgemental.

My husband and I said our vows with all the honesty and faith in our hearts. I respect them and have held true to them, as has he. The vows we said are no less important than those you all have exchanged with your significant others, so please don't belittle them because I don't believe my husband should be chained to me should I have the mental capacity of a child and not be able to be a wife to him.

You are taking this personally when that isn't how it was intended or how it was stated. In fact, several of us were careful to say that we were not applying our feelings or beliefs to anyone but ourselves. Those of us who say we wouldn't leave because of our vows meant just what we said. We wouldn't leave because of our vows. That has nothing to do with your vows. Your vows may mean completely different things to you than ours do to us, and there's nothing wrong with that at all. There's no reason to take it personally just because someone meant their vows differently than you meant yours. It doesn't mean yours are any less valid to you than ours are to us, it just means you interpret yours differently than we do. There's no judgement there, it's just a matter of people having different beliefs than you do.

 

[nathalee81]

You are taking this personally when that isn't how it was intended or how it was stated. In fact, several of us were careful to say that we were not applying our feelings or beliefs to anyone but ourselves. Those of us who say we wouldn't leave because of our vows meant just what we said. We wouldn't leave because of our vows. That has nothing to do with your vows. Your vows may mean completely different things to you than ours do to us, and there's nothing wrong with that at all. There's no reason to take it personally just because someone meant their vows differently than you meant yours. It doesn't mean yours are any less valid to you than ours are to us, it just means you interpret yours differently than we do. There's no judgement there, it's just a matter of people having different beliefs than you do.

I'm really sorry, but that just doesn't fly.

You can SAY you aren't judging all you want, but it really boils down to that.

Sorry, it just rubs me the wrong way when people get on their moral high horses (I MEANT my vows), and than try to soften it with "but I am not judging".

ETA: Sorry for the "moral high horses" comment, I believe it was out of line. I apologize. I still think people are judging, but I shouldn't have used that term. Sorry.

 

[Scurvy]

I'm really sorry, but that just doesn't fly.

You can SAY you aren't judging all you want, but it really boils down to that.

Sorry, it just rubs me the wrong way when people get on their moral high horses (I MEANT my vows), and than try to soften it with "but I am not judging".

It's unfortunate that you choose to take it that way, but frankly that says more about you than anyone else. It was not intended that way. I don't care what vows anyone else says. I don't care how they interpret their own vows. I care about my own vows, and about what I feel they mean in regards to my marriage. I don't judge anyone else about their vows because I have no idea what they vowed or how they meant the things that they vowed. I choose not to paint everyone with the same brush, because I know when it comes to things like vows and beliefs and feelings, there is no one answer that applies to everyone. It's a shame you can't do the same.