A "is this a good college" thread for all college searchers...

[MrsPete]

What I have been saying all along is that it should go without saying that merely TAKING the exam does not get you the credit, that you have to PASS the exam to get the credit, and that you only will get the credit IF the college that is your target accepts that test for credit with the score that you made. . . . However, I know a little something about what it is like to live in an underprivileged area and have your friends and family (and yes, sometimes even your teachers and guidance counselors), continually tell you that that means that you cannot go where the middle-class kids can go because you don't have access to their advantages while you're still in high school.

Ah, I see I shouldv'e read the post twice -- I wasn't answering the right question.

I am also from a very, very rural and underpriviledged area . . . yet no one ever told me that I couldn't do this or that for college. I didn't really grasp what a po-dunk country high school experience I had 'til I got to college and realized that everyone else was far ahead of me. Obviously, I stepped up my game and made it through, but that first semester was tough.

In defense of my high school, they were providing an education appropriate for the majority of the kids. It was farming country, and their agriculture classes were second to none. They also offered other excellent vocational classes, but so few kids were heading to college that college-prep classes were not high on the list of priorities. That's why although I'd love to still live in that area and although I intend to retire there, I live in a different area now -- I live in the school system where I want my kids to be.

Whether a student ever needs to print something depends on their field. My son still has some, but it's not stuff he can print on his printer.

What kind of stuff won't print on a typical home printer? I'm guessing blue prints or extra-large items? My husband does have a special printer at work for things like this, and I can imagine a college having something similar in a computer lab.

I'm surprised to see that printing isn't so common. Still, I don't think I'd dare send my daughter away without a printer of her own -- or one to share between roommates. I'd hate to think she'd have to make a special trip across campus to the library or a computer lab to print something, especially if it were late at night.

As we've been touring colleges, I have seen printers in some dorm lobbies, and that looks handy, though the only one I looked at in detail was broken (that was at UNC-Chapel Hill).

 

[golfgal]

[sigh]

What I have been saying all along is that it should go without saying that merely TAKING the exam does not get you the credit, that you have to PASS the exam to get the credit, and that you only will get the credit IF the college that is your target accepts that test for credit with the score that you made. Not once did I ever imply that there was ANY college credit to be gained from any kind of AP class alone, or by taking the AP or CLEP exams but not passing them.

Yes, taking a prep class is good if you have that option available; I never said that it wasn't good. However, it is possible to pass the exam even if you don't choose to take such a class or do not have such a class available to you (which is not uncommon in rural America.) You can still embark upon a personal course of study to cover the material and do it on your own. Yes, it takes initiative and dedication, but it is do-able.

I started this part of the discussion because IME, families in rural, working-class schools (and in poor urban schools, too) often do not know that it is possible to take exams for advance college credit and save money in that way, even if your school didn't offer "AP classes". Kids whose schools have such classes tend to know about the exam options only for that reason; they hear about the tests because people who they know take AP classes and then take the tests.

I know that MrsPete knows what she's talking about as a teacher. However, I know a little something about what it is like to live in an underprivileged area and have your friends and family (and yes, sometimes even your teachers and guidance counselors), continually tell you that that means that you cannot go where the middle-class kids can go because you don't have access to their advantages while you're still in high school. Yes, it's very difficult, and it sometimes means that you have to swim hard against the tide of conventional wisdom, but it is NOT impossible.

PS: Just FTR, CLEP doesn't use the 1-5 scoring scale. CLEP exams (other than the Composition exams) are scored on a scale between 20-80. Most schools that accept CLEP exams for credit require you to score at least 50 to get that credit, though of course, some will set the bar higher than that. (And sometimes the required minimum score varies depending on the course.)

You implied in your post that you had to take an AP class to take the test. I replied that anyone can take the test, passing the test was assumed that people understood that.

 

[mdsoccermom]

Go to the Rutgers website, they do a great job of explaining the different campuses in New Brunswick. In a nut shell there are 5 different campuses at Rutgers
Cook, Douglas, Busch, College Ave and Livingston. They are close together in both New Brunswich and Piscataway NJ. But each campus is very big and yes, they use plenty of buses.
My girls Dr. is in Highland Park and we see the buses all the time going between the New Brunswick and Piscataway. I am not sure how often a student would have a class on a different campus, but as I said, my girls have grown up seeing the buses so that is why she had the *fear* of getting around by bus.
Do to our involvement in 4-H we are at the Cook Campus (in New Brunswick) a lot. I know from going to Ag field day you can walk from Cook to Douglas. She spent the afternoon at the Busch Piscataway campus. I passed Livington getting to Busch...that too is in Piscataway.

Woo-hoo for Highland Park! (I grew up there.)

Carry on.

 

[bballmom56]

AP credits ~ my kids' college has a lot of conditions for AP credit in different subjects. For example, if you are a biology or bio-math major or are a candidate for the PT program, they will not accept AP credit for biology. DD was going in as a chem. major, so she was able to use her 5 in AP bio. for credit. Although her HS did not offer AP Chem. she did well enough on placement exams for chemistry to put her into the second semester level course. I think she wishes she had taken the first semester level course instead.

So you really have to review the policies of the colleges you may be interested in attending to find out if they will grant AP credit for the courses the student has taken for the major to which they are applying. Students should take AP courses to take the most rigorous classes they can, but they have to realize they may not receive college credit for them.

BTW, in our HS, if you took an AP course, you were REQUIRED to take the exam (and pay for it).

 

[golfgal]

AP credits ~ my kids' college has a lot of conditions for AP credit in different subjects. For example, if you are a biology or bio-math major or are a candidate for the PT program, they will not accept AP credit for biology. DD was going in as a chem. major, so she was able to use her 5 in AP bio. for credit. Although her HS did not offer AP Chem. she did well enough on placement exams for chemistry to put her into the second semester level course. I think she wishes she had taken the first semester level course instead.

So you really have to review the policies of the colleges you may be interested in attending to find out if they will grant AP credit for the courses the student has taken for the major to which they are applying. Students should take AP courses to take the most rigorous classes they can, but they have to realize they may not receive college credit for them.

BTW, in our HS, if you took an AP course, you were REQUIRED to take the exam (and pay for it).

That is so the school can show up on that Newsweek top 100 "ranking" of the "best" high schools in the nation (which is based solely on the number of kids that TAKE and AP test-not even on how many PASS the tests). If they are going to require you to take the test, they should pay for the test . If our twins take AP tests in all of the classes they will most likely take AP, that will be about 13-15 AP tests each and at what $70+/test, that is over $1000. I don't see them taking all of the AP tests. They will take some this spring and maybe some next spring but senior year, who knows-by then they will know which schools they are attending and if they don't accept AP credits, they won't take the tests.

 

[allison443]

BTW, in our HS, if you took an AP course, you were REQUIRED to take the exam (and pay for it).

My kids' high school is the same. If the kid is in the AP class, they must take the test. We actually pay for the test at the beginning of the year. (It is not a public school though.) I think that's because the class is weighted more heavily, and they don't want kids taking it just for the weighted benefit.

 

[kbeverina]

Our high school requires the students to take the test as well, but it has nothing to do with rankings. They have to pay deposits for each test at the beginning of the year. They don't have the money to eat the deposit if the student decides not to take the test.

 

[golfgal]

Our high school requires the students to take the test as well, but it has nothing to do with rankings. They have to pay deposits for each test at the beginning of the year. They don't have the money to eat the deposit if the student decides not to take the test.

Do you have to pay for the test or does the school?

 

[kbeverina]

My kids' high school is the same. If the kid is in the AP class, they must take the test. We actually pay for the test at the beginning of the year. (It is not a public school though.) I think that's because the class is weighted more heavily, and they don't want kids taking it just for the weighted benefit.

I do think the weighting comes into play also. Our school weights for purposes of class rank, but sends the unweighted gpa on the transcript to colleges.

We pay for the AP test ourselves as well, but if you qualify for federal free/reduced lunch, the school picks up the tab for the tests to ensure that these kids have the same opportunities. They just can't afford to pay for tests that students have no intention of taking.

 

[NCRedding]

BTW, in our HS, if you took an AP course, you were REQUIRED to take the exam (and pay for it).

My kids' high school is the same. If the kid is in the AP class, they must take the test. We actually pay for the test at the beginning of the year. (It is not a public school though.) I think that's because the class is weighted more heavily, and they don't want kids taking it just for the weighted benefit.

Our district requires students to take the test, but the district pays for it, not the student. We do it so that the student has the full range of the AP experience, not just the advantage of the weighted benefit.

Unfortunately, this makes our percentage of passing grade very low. DD had the experience of taking many AP tests with students who slept through the exam because they knew they couldn't pass it.

Our district also has a policy of limiting the number of AP classes a student can take. Only juniors and seniors can take AP classes.

 

[allison443]

Can I ask about college visits?
My DD is a junior and we will be trying to set up some college visits and interviews for June and July. How much time do you normally allow for each visit and how far in advance did you contact the school? For instance, we'll have 3 to 4 to visit in both the DC area and in Pennsylvania - can we do one in the morning and another in the afternoon or could you do 3 in one day, if they are close enough together? Also, her guidance counselor has suggested we schedule individual visits over the Open Houses because she believes you get much more personal attention and suggests Open Houses if it's a school the students aren't sure about and aren't ready to actually interview there. Does that sound right to those of you who've been through this? All of this is giving me a headache!

We actually didn't go to that many official Open Houses. I agree with your guidance counselor. For most of the schools we visited, we would arrange a tour through the admissions office, often there was an information session first at the admissions office, then a campus tour with a student guide. After that we would normally go to the cafeteria to get a feel for the campus. We would look at the school newspaper, check out the flyers posted on bulletin boards (for activities, etc.).
Most of our visits were weekdays, and we always tried to go when the college was in session. We wanted to see how the campus/atmosphere was when the students were there, kwim?

I know it can be difficult to arrange with kids' schedules, sports, etc. We tried to schedule something in spring of junior year whenever the high school had a day off. Also the high school had Easter break which some colleges don't, so we would go then.

You definitely need to check the schools' websites. The admissions section usually has all the info you need. Some give tours every day, some only on certain days. Some have calendars showing their availability-high school spring break does tend to get booked up!

As for your question about two in one day, we did look at two Philly schools in one day, but our first tour was early (I think 9:00), then we had lunch there and went to the other one for an afternoon session.

 

[bballmom56]

That is so the school can show up on that Newsweek top 100 "ranking" of the "best" high schools in the nation (which is based solely on the number of kids that TAKE and AP test-not even on how many PASS the tests). If they are going to require you to take the test, they should pay for the test .

ummmm, nope. Not gonna be on the top 100 high schools in the nation any time soon. A student can get an excellent education there if they choose, but our district only sends about 40% of its graduating class to 4 yr. colleges and about 40% to community colleges.

Yeah, it would be nice if they paid the fees, but the student must pay the entire amount.

The handbook now says if the student does not take the AP exam, they will lose the AP designation and weighting and will be referred to the principal for disciplinary action. I have no idea what the disciplinary action would be, but this started back when my DS was a senior and he had a friend who refused to take the Comp. Sci. exam because he felt he was not prepared from the class (DS had the same teacher for a different course, so we were not surprised the friend felt that way). That student was punished by not being allowed to attend senior week activities which I thought was entirely unfair. The policy about taking the AP test was not even in the handbook at that time - it is there now because of that situation.

 

[allison443]

At my kids' high school, some of the AP classes are also eligible for credit through a local university. So at the beginning of the year, if you are in for example AP US History, you have to pay the fee for the AP test. You must take the test. You also have the option of paying $200 (I think) to receive 3 college credits for the class through that university. So you can kind of "hedge your bets" if you are concerned about passing the AP test, or if the college you end up going to doesn't give AP credit. I think you have to get a B or better for college credit.

 

[golfgal]

I do think the weighting comes into play also. Our school weights for purposes of class rank, but sends the unweighted gpa on the transcript to colleges.

We pay for the AP test ourselves as well, but if you qualify for federal free/reduced lunch, the school picks up the tab for the tests to ensure that these kids have the same opportunities. They just can't afford to pay for tests that students have no intention of taking.

Our high school doesn't weight grades but they have two class rankings, overall and honors and they send the honor's class ranking to the colleges. They have a formula that that use that takes into consideration the number of honors/AP/CIS classes that you take and your grades in those classes and ranks them accordingly. If you go through our high school never having taken an honors class, you can't rank in the top about half of the class--even if you have a 4.0. I think this system is more representative of where you place in a class and most colleges look more strongly at class rank vs GPA anyway.

 

[allison443]

That is so the school can show up on that Newsweek top 100 "ranking" of the "best" high schools in the nation (which is based solely on the number of kids that TAKE and AP test-not even on how many PASS the tests). If they are going to require you to take the test, they should pay for the test . If our twins take AP tests in all of the classes they will most likely take AP, that will be about 13-15 AP tests each and at what $70+/test, that is over $1000. I don't see them taking all of the AP tests. They will take some this spring and maybe some next spring but senior year, who knows-by then they will know which schools they are attending and if they don't accept AP credits, they won't take the tests.

Our school requires the kids to take the AP test, but it has nothing to do with the Newsweek list. That list only includes public schools, and my kids' school is not a public school. So that is not the reason the requirement is there.

 

[golfgal]

We actually didn't go to that many official Open Houses. I agree with your guidance counselor. For most of the schools we visited, we would arrange a tour through the admissions office, often there was an information session first at the admissions office, then a campus tour with a student guide. After that we would normally go to the cafeteria to get a feel for the campus. We would look at the school newspaper, check out the flyers posted on bulletin boards (for activities, etc.).
Most of our visits were weekdays, and we always tried to go when the college was in session. We wanted to see how the campus/atmosphere was when the students were there, kwim?

I know it can be difficult to arrange with kids' schedules, sports, etc. We tried to schedule something in spring of junior year whenever the high school had a day off. Also the high school had Easter break which some colleges don't, so we would go then.

You definitely need to check the schools' websites. The admissions section usually has all the info you need. Some give tours every day, some only on certain days. Some have calendars showing their availability-high school spring break does tend to get booked up!

As for your question about two in one day, we did look at two Philly schools in one day, but our first tour was early (I think 9:00), then we had lunch there and went to the other one for an afternoon session.

From our DS18's experience, I am going to make sure the kids visit schools on a weekend as well. We asked about weekend life when we toured and our tour guide said that lots of kids stay on campus and there was a lot to do. We didn't take into consideration that she was a senior and we were looking for information about freshmen. DS's dorm turns into a ghost town every weekend and he is probably not going back there next year because of that. Most of his friends are not going back either.

Our school requires the kids to take the AP test, but it has nothing to do with the Newsweek list. That list only includes public schools, and my kids' school is not a public school. So that is not the reason the requirement is there.

But they probably use it in their advertising for the school-"86% of our students take 5 AP tests", or whatever.

 

[allison443]

But they probably use it in their advertising for the school-"86% of our students take 5 AP tests", or whatever.

No, like I said, it has to do with the weighting of grades for class rank. It's not used in "advertising".

 

[allison443]

From our DS18's experience, I am going to make sure the kids visit schools on a weekend as well. We asked about weekend life when we toured and our tour guide said that lots of kids stay on campus and there was a lot to do. We didn't take into consideration that she was a senior and we were looking for information about freshmen. DS's dorm turns into a ghost town every weekend and he is probably not going back there next year because of that. Most of his friends are not going back either.

Oh, sorry to hear that. I know my kids were adamant about not going to a "suitcase school" where a lot of people go home on the weekends. That seems to be the case especially with a few of our state schools. I guess because a lot of kids are local. We looked at one school on a weekday, and similar to your experience, the guide said most people stay around, etc. Of course they are going by their own experience, and when we visited on a weekend it was a different story.
Hope everything works out for your son.

 

[bballmom56]

At my kids' high school, some of the AP classes are also eligible for credit through a local university. So at the beginning of the year, if you are in for example AP US History, you have to pay the fee for the AP test. You must take the test. You also have the option of paying $200 (I think) to receive 3 college credits for the class through that university. So you can kind of "hedge your bets" if you are concerned about passing the AP test, or if the college you end up going to doesn't give AP credit. I think you have to get a B or better for college credit.

Just be careful there, too. Our local CC had an agreement with our HS for "concurrent" courses. Basically, it was certain honors or AP courses taught at our HS by the regular HS teachers (it was just the regular class) would receive CC credit as well for a fee which I think then was $100/course. Lots of kids were doing it and I saw lots of money being tossed around. We chose not to do it, even though DS could have done it. Turns out, his university would not accept "concurrent" courses for college credit even though we were assured by the VPAA from the CC that all colleges will accept it and he had never had a college decline it. Well ours did and I am glad I saved the money. DS had classmates that went to the same university that he did, and they had enrolled in this and wasted their money.

 

[suzannen]

I love this thread!
Thank you - to all who've answered my questions about college visits. It's given me some important things to think about. We meet with DD's guidance counselor next week to give her a list of schools DD is interested in and then the counselor will also add a few others for us to consider. Once we have that, we're going narrow down the list. Because I know there's no way I can take off 16 days from work to look at 16 schools in 5 states!!

And, please do keep on giving other tips is you have them (like what a school is like on the weekend), because they really are so helpful!