A "is this a good college" thread for all college searchers...

[a1tinkfans]

we're starting the search now and my child wants Emory or UNC...Me...I am feeling rather overwhelmed...the mailbox is filled everyday from places (some we know little about). He was contacted by Emory for a summer program and we're closing in on the deadline...so its decision time , would like to see if he thinks it is a good fit, and figure that is a good opportunity...and maybe a better chance to get him later??..
All I know is.......I really do not want to go into debt for a childs education and would rather not see him in a BIG hole...so realistically, the decision will likely be a financial one...heres hoping that he gets some $$....from what we hear thru guidance he should get some "good offers" based on his stats....we shall see......

Anyone by chance have a child that attended Emory or UNC@Chappell Hill...The Emory Summer Program?? TIA

 

[tar heel]

golfgal -- BTW, that's what Duke's central campus looks like -- lots of gothic buildings.

 

[cruisnfamily]

So DD, who's a senior this year, is all set to go to FGCU next year. She's my average student with average SATs. No career goals/plans, doesn't know what she wants to major in.

But it's DS15 who I will need to really help in his choices. He's the very bright student who will score very high on tests and have a gpa over 4.0. He's interested in some type of computer major, not sure what...video games would be his choice but not really a practical major. He can't do the game art/animation as he is no good at drawing, just wishes he could major in the computer end of it. BUt, here's the interesting kicker. His high school has a major in GIS and he's very interested. But if he continues on this path, there don't appear to be any schools in FL and only one in the south (UNCW) which offer a program in this. And we'd give up bright futures(which will pay 100% tuition if he goes public in-state) if he leaves FL.

So, help me out...schools with a choice of computer majors and also a GIS certification? Tell me what you know or have heard.

 

[MrsPete]

. . . It isn't all that bright to take out $100,000 in student loans for a job that pays $30,000 . . .

But here's the catch: The article girl wouldn't have believed that SHE was going to end up making $30,000 a year. She was certain that she'd graduate from THE school, get THE job, and live her dream life -- in short order, thank you very much. 20-year old her wouldn't have believed that 26-year old her would be in this situation. Those things happen to other people!

I suspect few students take out loans knowing they'll be overwhelmed later in life, but many discover too late the difference between entry-level and dream job. Or worse, they can't find a career-oriented job at all and find themselves making loan payments while waiting tables.

I disagree with the idea that student loans are not evil.

I understand about student loans and am fine with taking them out. I have done math with my cousin who owes 100 grand and we figured out that if you make 45k (his salary) you can have your loans payed off by the time your 30. I do not think that's bad. Now, I do know that I may not make 45k right off the bat but still, I am fine with paying student loans. And I know you are going to try to convince me otherwise because I am young and all but you are not changing my mind! I already know where I really want to go (all of the other schools are just backups) and I will pay whatever to go there because that is how much I loved it.

Let's assume he's bringing home 80% of his salary, which for a just-out-of-college worker would be rather amazing (I assume he doesn't have dependants or significant deductions); he'd have $3000 a month, and his loan payments would be almost $1300/month. That's best case scenerio -- the reality would be worse.

Really, I believe no one's going to convince you, but at least read the article about the girl who went to American University. You sound like you're following in her footsteps, assuming everything's going to be manageable.

Schools aren't divided into THE ONE SCHOOL THAT I WILL LOVE and a bunch of other places that I'll hate. Look into lots of them and find one that's BOTH affordable AND well-suited to you. I'll give you an example: My daughter has two "favorite schools" right now -- and they aren't the two I would've predicted when we started talking about college, but they became favorites as we visited, talked to people, and researched. She absolutely loves the college-town feel of School A, loves that they're football-crazy in the fall, loves everything about the school . . . EXCEPT that it's in the mountains, and she doesn't like the cold. If it wasn't for the certainty of snow for several months of the year, she'd be begging me to send in a housing deposit NOW. The other favorite is also a great fit for her . . . EXCEPT that it has no football team, and she really does want the school spirit that comes with that. So which one's THE SCHOOL for her? Both have everything she wants academically, and both have one big drawback. She's probably going to attend one of these two schools; either choice will make her happy, and either choice will be missing something she wants. You're not going to find a school with every single detail perfect for you.

Tuition and fees at the UNC branches are roughly half as much as UVa's. Both of the flagships are in the top 10 in the list just sited. It's really hard to find a private school of similar caliber that can meet the fee -- there's plenty of lesser ones, of course.

I really think our NC schools are something unusual: Our average state school is much better than our average private school. I'm not encouraging my girls towards private at all.

I commend your cousin for living so frugally and planning to do so for the next ten years. A person making $45,000 will probably clear about $32,000 a year after taxes and insurance premiums/copays. That's approximately $2,700 a month clear. When you take $100,000, compound 6% interest annually, you would need to pay $1,500 a month to pay it off in ten years. I don't know many people who can live on $1,200 a month with rent, food, car, commuting costs... I guess no vacations, no boyfriend/girlfriend no kids, no house for the next ten years. Now, if you make $35,000 a year with that same debt load, you can expect to clear no more than $2,100 a month. Minus $1,500 for loan payments and that leaves you with $600 a month to live on for ten years. Good luck.

Real math is not nearly so much fun as fantasy math! Real math makes student loans look like . . . real sacrafice for many years!

I completely agree.

I think what MrsPete says, and I have seen over the years to be true as well, is that in general here the average kid doesn't get the huge scholarships to the privates that are better than the state schools. Most kids don't get into Harvard. Most kids don't get a full-ride to W&L.

In general, the state schools around here are so good that most kids would not get into a private that is better and would give them so much merit aid that it would be less expensive than the state school. Even with hefty merit aid that would put the private in the price-range of the public, there aren't many privates that are comparably ranked. I hope that makes sense. Obviously, it's not all about ranking or even mostly about ranking. But when the subject is discussed, that is the angle from which it's usually being discussed.

Yes, that's what I've seen in teaching high school seniors for 19 years.

 

[pixie dust 112]

Of course I am not a parent but I can say as a teen what is important right now. My parents give me suggestions and all but are not effection my decisions at all.

Loaction is big because I do want to be semi-close to home, like not too close (2 hours is starting distance) but not too far, 4 hours would be great but I am willing to do up to 6 if the school is AMAZING. I also want to be close to a bigger city where a lot is going on. I feel like having a city right there helps with getting jobs when your done too because your close to a lot of job oppertunities.

Tuition makes no difference, Ive discussed this with my parents and we've agreed that happiness comes first then figuring out how to pay. Loans may be necessary but we are expecting a good amount of aid.

Size has become VERY important. I want a smaller school, no more then 8000 kids. I like the community feel of smaller schools, it makes you feel more protected which I like.

Reputation is important. I want to attend somewhere that does have a good reputation because I think it helps getting jobs in the end.

I want to go for political science so a lot of schools have it so that's not a big one. Pretty much any school I look at has it so it ends up making no difference.

I also want a more competative school because I have worked hard in high school to get into a good college.

Vassar, Smith, Bard, Marist?

 

[golfgal]

Our average state school is much better than our average private school. I'm not encouraging my girls towards private at all. .

You have been saying this for years so curiosity finally got the better of me. I looked up on the college boards website the "average" student that gets accepted at the NC State Universities and quite honestly, their numbers are awful. Most of the state U's there accept kids with under 20's on their ACT's, the ok schools accept kids with under 24 and your "best" school has a high end of 27. I don't think that is even close to good, sorry. Most private schools won't even look at you if you don't have AT LEAST a 24 on your ACT and many that number is over 30. From what you are saying and the number of kids that don't make it into your schools REALLY have me wondering... . Now, it very well may be that the private schools in NC are even worse (I only looked at a couple of those and their numbers weren't any better) but your state schools don't compare to the private schools in most of the rest of the country. SAT scores you see the same results.

 

[christineann]

As always, your posts are very informative, Mrs. Pete.

FWIW, my daughter, from the beach in South Carolina, is a student at School A and loves it

 

[DVCLiz]

You have been saying this for years so curiosity finally got the better of me. I looked up on the college boards website the "average" student that gets accepted at the NC State Universities and quite honestly, their numbers are awful. Most of the state U's there accept kids with under 20's on their ACT's, the ok schools accept kids with under 24 and your "best" school has a high end of 27. I don't think that is even close to good, sorry. Most private schools won't even look at you if you don't have AT LEAST a 24 on your ACT and many that number is over 30. From what you are saying and the number of kids that don't make it into your schools REALLY have me wondering... . Now, it very well may be that the private schools in NC are even worse (I only looked at a couple of those and their numbers weren't any better) but your state schools don't compare to the private schools in most of the rest of the country. SAT scores you see the same results.

It's a shame this thread is going to turn into something ugly but neither of you are very objective or willing to bend on your opinions and I see this in thread after thread.

For the record, none of these opinions are true.

UNC-Chapel Hill is a highly ranked public university and one of the best schools in the country. There is no way you would be accepted at Chapel Hill with a 27 ACT.

State is probably the next best public school.

UNC-G and NCA&T are both large public universities - both excellent in their own ways and both offering many unique and excellent programs.

Asheville, Charlotte, Wilmington, Appalachian, Eastern Carolina and Western Carolina are mid-level public universities and colleges in the public system. All reasonably good, all offering many excellent specialty programs - none considered "top" schools.

The rest of the schools in the public NC system are either specialty arts, historically black or niche. Again, all good options for the right student - none difficult to get into.

There are three excellent private schools in NC - Duke, Wake Forest and Davidson. All top-rated, all extremely competitive and very difficult to get into.

There are several mid-level private schools in NC - again, all with good programs but none terribly renowned. Although I would probably not put Elon into that category - it's becoming more well known and is increasingly improving its program and its student body profile.

 

[kbeverina]

You have been saying this for years so curiosity finally got the better of me. I looked up on the college boards website the "average" student that gets accepted at the NC State Universities and quite honestly, their numbers are awful. Most of the state U's there accept kids with under 20's on their ACT's, the ok schools accept kids with under 24 and your "best" school has a high end of 27. I don't think that is even close to good, sorry. Most private schools won't even look at you if you don't have AT LEAST a 24 on your ACT and many that number is over 30. From what you are saying and the number of kids that don't make it into your schools REALLY have me wondering... . Now, it very well may be that the private schools in NC are even worse (I only looked at a couple of those and their numbers weren't any better) but your state schools don't compare to the private schools in most of the rest of the country. SAT scores you see the same results.

Wondering what?

This is exactly the same thing you tried to say about the quality of public schools in Virginia because our state schools are very difficult to get into. It is not that our public high schools are so poor. It's that our public universities are so good and so inexpensive.

You have seriously misinformed yourself about NC universities. The state flagship has an average of nearly 1400s SATs and 29 ACT (which is much less common to submit).

Just browsing a college confidential thread as acceptances/rejections/deferrals are starting to come in:

SAT 2190
ACT 33
UW GPA 3.9
rank top 5%
Deferred

SAT 1420/2100
ACT 31
UW GPA 3.75
Rejected

SAT 2050
ACT 32
W GPA 4.3
Deferred

SAT 1310/1990
UW GPA 4.0
Rejected

SAT 1450/2250
ACT 32
W GPA 4.2
Deferred

ACT 33
rank 1st
Rejected

SAT 1520/2230
UW GPA 3.95
Deferred

Let's look at some from last year:

SAT 2150
ACT 31
Deferred

SAT 1490/2280
UW GPA 3.9
Deferred

ACT 30
UW GPA 3.65
Rejected

ACT 33
UW GPA 3.85
Rejected

ACT 31
UW GPA 3.9
Deferred

SAT 1430/2130
UW GPA 3.7
Deferred

SAT 2280
ACT 32
UW GPA 3.9
Rejected

SAT 1450/2130
UW GPA 3.8
Deferred

SAT 1360/2040
ACT 33
UW GPA 4.0
Rejected

SAT 1420
Rejected

ACT 33
UW GPA 3.83
Waitlisted

SAT 1500/2280
UW 3.93
Waitlisted

SAT 1580/2310
ACT 35
UW GPA 4.0
Rejected

You can check it out for yourself. You'll find UNC Chapel Hill in the "CC Top Universities" section.

 

[tar heel]

golfgal -- You never cease to amaze me.

 

[allison443]

You have been saying this for years so curiosity finally got the better of me. I looked up on the college boards website the "average" student that gets accepted at the NC State Universities and quite honestly, their numbers are awful. Most of the state U's there accept kids with under 20's on their ACT's, the ok schools accept kids with under 24 and your "best" school has a high end of 27. I don't think that is even close to good, sorry. Most private schools won't even look at you if you don't have AT LEAST a 24 on your ACT and many that number is over 30. From what you are saying and the number of kids that don't make it into your schools REALLY have me wondering... . Now, it very well may be that the private schools in NC are even worse (I only looked at a couple of those and their numbers weren't any better) but your state schools don't compare to the private schools in most of the rest of the country. SAT scores you see the same results.

I really don't understand you lumping "private schools" in one group and "public schools" in another group. That really makes no sense, as there are highly selective privates and highly selective publics, as well as publics where pretty much everyone can get in, and privates where pretty much everyone can get in.

If you look at the top 50 colleges in the US, the list contains both private and public schools.

Your categorization of academic quality between schools solely on the basis of whether they are "private" or "public" is extremely flawed. Why do you do that? Is your kid at a private school? Are the public universities in MN not considered good and that's what you're familiar with?

Your oldest child goes to school in Minnesota, right? It sounds like you are expanding your search beyond Minnesota for your next two kids. I'm sure you will learn a lot! Believe me there is a lot to learn! I have one more kid coming up to college, and it seems things change every few years! That's why I'm on this thread, trying to stay current....

 

[allison443]

It's a shame this thread is going to turn into something ugly but neither of you are very objective or willing to bend on your opinions and I see this in thread after thread.

For the record, none of these opinions are true.

UNC-Chapel Hill is a highly ranked public university and one of the best schools in the country. There is no way you would be accepted at Chapel Hill with a 27 ACT.

State is probably the next best public school.

UNC-G and NCA&T are both large public universities - both excellent in their own ways and both offering many unique and excellent programs.

Asheville, Charlotte, Wilmington, Appalachian, Eastern Carolina and Western Carolina are mid-level public universities and colleges in the public system. All reasonably good, all offering many excellent specialty programs - none considered "top" schools.

The rest of the schools in the public NC system are either specialty arts, historically black or niche. Again, all good options for the right student - none difficult to get into.

There are three excellent private schools in NC - Duke, Wake Forest and Davidson. All top-rated, all extremely competitive and very difficult to get into.

There are several mid-level private schools in NC - again, all with good programs but none terribly renowned. Although I would probably not put Elon into that category - it's becoming more well known and is increasingly improving its program and its student body profile.

Nice try, DVC Liz!! However, I fear it may be futile...

 

[kbeverina]

golfgal -- You never cease to amaze me.

I really don't get it. All MrsPete has said in prior threads is that, in her experience working with students all these years, the cases where students get enough merit money at private schools comparable to the publics, to make the private school less expensive than the public, those cases are the exceptions, not the norm. Duke, for example, is not known for tremendous amounts of merit aid. And Chapel Hill is something like $6,000/year tuition.

In our state, I believe that tends to be true as well. I think we have 4 publics in the top 100 of all publics/privates. At $10,000/year tuition, it's hard for any private without a huge endowment (and, let's face it, most kids don't have a shot at those schools) to beat that in merit aid. Chances are, that private won't be comparably ranked.

That's all that's being said. I don't know why it's such a bone of contention for golfgal.

 

[DVCLiz]

Nice try, DVC Liz!! However, I fear it may be futile...

I hope you think my assessment - which after all is just my personal opinion - is somewhat accurate.

I think really the basic idea is that NC, on average, has a pretty strong and comprehensive public university system. No, there aren't many that would be competitive against a really good good private school, but there are several good options that most average NC high school graduates could reasonably expect to be admitted to and find success at (I know I'm ending that with a preposition, sorry).

And the costs are fairly reasonable, too.

All things being equal, if I had a talented student and she could get into ANY school in NC, we would pick:

Davidson
Duke (this pains me to admit, as a Tar Heel grad)
Wake Forest/Chapel Hill (tie)
Elon
State

I did want to mention another nice small private school - Guilford College in Greensboro. It has an excellent reputation - a Quaker background so it has a certain vibe - but for the right student it's a great fit and has some wonderful things going for it.

 

[kbeverina]

I really don't understand you lumping "private schools" in one group and "public schools" in another group. That really makes no sense, as there are highly selective privates and highly selected publics, as well as publics where pretty much everyone can get in, and privates where pretty much everyone can get in.

If you look at the top 50 colleges in the US, the list contains both private and public schools.

Your categorization of academic quality between schools solely on the basis of whether they are "private" or "public" is extremely flawed. Why do you do that? Is your kid at a private school? Are the public universities in MN not considered good and that's what your familiar with?

Your oldest child goes to school in Minnesota, right? It sounds like you are expanding your search beyond Minnesota for your next two kids. I'm sure you will learn a lot! Believe me there is a lot to learn! I have one more kid coming up to college, and it seems things change every few years! That's why I'm on this thread, trying to stay current....

I think she just keeps trying to remind people that the cost of attendance at a private may actually end up being less than the cost of attendance at a state school. And this is true. I don't think anyone disputes that or has a problem with that.

She just seems to have a problem with the other side of the coin. Some states have very highly ranked public universities where the cost of attendance is generally going to be less than most privates, even with hefty merit aid offered by the privates. There aren't many privates ranked higher than UVA or William and Mary or Chapel Hill that would offer cost of attendance lower if you're in-state. I would certainly pay more for Harvard than for UVA.

Both of the above can be true at the same time. I don't understand why she tries so hard to prove it's not.

 

[allison443]

I think she just keeps trying to remind people that the cost of attendance at a private may actually end up being less than the cost of attendance at a state school. And this is true. I don't think anyone disputes that or has a problem with that.

She just seems to have a problem with the other side of the coin. Some states have very highly ranked public universities where the cost of attendance is generally going to be less than most privates, even with hefty merit aid offered by the privates. There aren't many privates ranked higher than UVA or William and Mary or Chapel Hill that would offer cost of attendance lower if you're in-state. I would certainly pay more for Harvard than for UVA.

Both of the above can be true at the same time. I don't understand why she tries so hard to prove it's not.

I also want to point out that many of the top privates only give need-based financial aid. Around here, many families we know don't qualify for financial aid. So it comes down to paying out of pocket for a good private (that doesn't give you aid) at 50K, a state school at around 25K (in NJ), or an out of state state school, at around 35-38K, which is still cheaper than the full-cost private school. Yes, kids can get merit scholarships, but to get a big merit award you usually need to be at the top of the applicant pool, and that may not be the right fit, kwim?

I know Golfgal has said she knows people at the top schools, and they are all paying less than half, so I guess they're all getting need-based financial aid. Great! But some people don't qualify for financial aid. Plenty of posters here on the dis are in that situation.

Some posters just don't seem to understand that you may be better off going to a well known state school than a private.

 

[kbeverina]

I know Golfgal has said she knows people at the top schools, and they are all paying less than half, so I guess they're all getting need-based financial aid. Great! But some people don't qualify for financial aid. Plenty of posters here on the dis are in that situation.

And less than half is still more than I'd pay in-state. I did do research into the private schools that offered the programs my son was looking at. There really was no case where the private had a better program and/or offered substantial money to bring the costs down to what I'd pay in-state for a better-ranked program. Sometimes it works out that way and sometimes it doesn't.

But if you think that UNC Chapel Hill is not "even close to good" or that Davidson, Duke and Wake Forest "weren't any better", then, honestly, you are stunningly ill-informed.

 

[dejr_8]

For some this may be a new term but Duke is referred to as the University of New Jersey at Durham because of the higher number of (elite?) Northerners who attend.

While I am not a Duke basketball fan (PUKE!), the school itself has a outstanding academic reputation.

UNC Chapel Hill also has outstanding academic reputation.

Now to be honest, NC State is a notch (or two) below and I would put it the same class as WVU. It certainly is not in the same State School class as a Penn State (a top university public or private).

I moved to NC from Boston and while no two schools are going to match MIT and Harvard, I think the overall quality of the Colleges and Universities in the extended Triangle area of NC are just as good as Boston.

 

[BuzznBelle'smom]

My friend's son is a freshman at Carnegie Mellon. He is an English major. He LOVES it and is doing very well there. He got a very good financial package, and they are paying less than they would at a state university. He plays bag pipes for them as well, so that might have something to do with his acceptance.

This is really interesting--DS13 also plays the bagpipes. He just got his Highland Pipes for Christmas. It's one of the few things he takes very seriously right now--smart kid, grades are currently in the toilet, what can I say? We're hoping he turns himself around--it's an "effort" thing, kid will probably ace his SAT's while simultaneously flunking chemistry.

Anyway, I'm curious if you know of schools that might be of particular interest to a bagpiper. It's an angle I'd never considered for him until I read your post. He's kind of a homebody kid, so would likely stay in New England. If you wouldn't mind asking yoru friend for a few potential school recommendations, I'd be eternally grateful.

P.S. My son's only in 8th grade, plenty of time for him to turn the grade thing around...or not.

 

[clarabelle]

You have been saying this for years so curiosity finally got the better of me. I looked up on the college boards website the "average" student that gets accepted at the NC State Universities and quite honestly, their numbers are awful. Most of the state U's there accept kids with under 20's on their ACT's, the ok schools accept kids with under 24 and your "best" school has a high end of 27. I don't think that is even close to good, sorry. Most private schools won't even look at you if you don't have AT LEAST a 24 on your ACT and many that number is over 30. From what you are saying and the number of kids that don't make it into your schools REALLY have me wondering... . Now, it very well may be that the private schools in NC are even worse (I only looked at a couple of those and their numbers weren't any better) but your state schools don't compare to the private schools in most of the rest of the country. SAT scores you see the same results.

Do you have Naviance?
For my daughter who is in a local prep school here in GA we can look up schools and see what GPA the students from our school had to get in to colleges.
So I can look up schools and see what the AVERAGE GPA and ACT or SAT was from just our students that got into schools and also how many applied and were turned down

For UNC Chapel Hill it was a 32 ACT and a 97 GPA
For UNC Asheville it was a 26 ACT and a 89 GPA
For Duke it was a 32 ACT and a 97.5 GPA
For Wake Forest it was a 29 and a 92 GPA

I think the numbers for the easier UNC schools are pulling down the numbers you are looking at for the average

We would be delighted if our daughter got into UNC Chapel Hill.
It may be a bit big for her though
She is also interested in William and Mary and maybe UVA -all of these state schools would be reaches.
She is also interested in going further North -but finances might prohibit that
We will not qualify for aid.