A GVWR Question

[MouseMadness]

Hi all!

Awhile back I asked about putting a golf cart in the back of our 1500 Ram (Quad Cab 04) while pulling our TT. Because of the weight of our TT (and the wonderful disers on this board) we figured out it would be a stupid mistake to do so.

Moving forward...our TT was recently totaled out (due to water damage) and we are in the market for a new one. We think we'll go with something a little smaller and definitely lighter so we could possibly have the golf cart for our camping trips as well.

So, as far as GVWR goes, is this the total amout the truck can haul if we add together the weight of the TT, golf cart (500-700 lbs?), misc. in the trailer (1000#) and passengers??? We never haul any water in the tanks, so I guess that would not be any weight issue.

So, will we be ok if we stay at or below the GVWR with all this added up? Or, do we need to be a few hundred/or a thousand under that weight?

I've done some digging for older threads, but haven't found one with this answer yet. Also, I am hesitant to ask a dealer (truck or RV) because they ALWAYS seem to want to push the weight to the max limit. We also don't want to upgrade the truck now, either, because we love the one we have

I have pulled up threads about the cart in the back, itself, and FYI, we have airbags installed to help with that issue. DH has also done other upgrades to the truck as well.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

 

[Cousin Ed C]

GVWR is the weight of the truck loaded with fuel, passengers, cargo and the tongue weight of the trailer. An electric golf cart is about 900#. Two adults are 300+#. A 1500# load is pretty high for a half ton PU. GCWR is all of the above plus the weight of the trailer. You should really check with Dodge to see what you can carry and tow.

 

[I'mDownWithDisney]

A quick Google search shows a 6,400/6,660lbs gvwr (4x2/x4x4) with a payload capacity of 1,610/1,476lbs. Assuming a cart weighs 900lbs as Ed referenced that leaves very little left over for passengers, fuel, tools, tongue weight of camper, etc. I can't see a way that you could haul a cart and not be over the gcwr.

Sounds like if you really want to carry the cart you may need to start looking for a 2500. I have towed with a half ton over its ratings, and it was not fun. I made a 10 hr white knuckle trip in a 1500, and immediately traded for a F250 diesel the following week.

 

[Tnbob]

Not to mention the braking distance with a 1500 compared to a 2500. You may look at the setup with the airbags and say it looks level and driveable but it still has 1500 brakes and bearings. Putting 900 to 1000 lbs in then fuel, tounge weight and passingers puts a load on the axel bearings and stopping would be a nighmare. Go for a 2500 or rent a GC to be safe and have peace of mind for yourself and the oncomming family in the other lane. Just my opinion.

 

[Disney Bunny]

Okay, I am going to chime in here with our personal "horror" story on this subject. Coming back from Darlington race Labor Day weekend 6 years ago I totaled our F150 and TT. We had always thought that we were okay on weight ratios with being several hundred pounds under what our total numbers indicated was our max. Dry road, no wind, and no trafffic on either side of us (Thank God). Did a 180 and ended upside down in a ditch facing south on I-95 when we had been headed north. Grace of God and an F-150. Worst injury was a cut to my arm and a piece of glass lodged in it when the driver side window exploded. And yes, I was as experienced as my DH driving the rig.....maybe more so......and not the first TT we had ever owned either. Our next mission in life was to buy an F250 diesel truck and a 5th wheel (more stability). Even with that rig, I was still very uncomfortable riding as the wheelbases of the truck and camper just never seemed to work well in tandem (sometimes felt as though the camper was trying to push the truck off the road......fixed problem some by adding air bags to the truck). When Ford came out with the integrated tow package on their next models, we traded even though truck was only 3 years old. Huge difference. I can actually read a book and go to sleep now when DH is towing.

Moral of the story: I don't care what the salesperson tells you, do your home work. Figure out what your truck can safely tow and stop and always get as far under those max numbers as you possibly can. Don't tempt fate.

 

[ftwildernessguy]

Okay, I am going to chime in here with our personal "horror" story on this subject. Coming back from Darlington race Labor Day weekend 6 years ago I totaled our F150 and TT. We had always thought that we were okay on weight ratios with being several hundred pounds under what our total numbers indicated was our max. Dry road, no wind, and no trafffic on either side of us (Thank God). Did a 180 and ended upside down in a ditch facing south on I-95 when we had been headed north. Grace of God and an F-150. Worst injury was a cut to my arm and a piece of glass lodged in it when the driver side window exploded. And yes, I was as experienced as my DH driving the rig.....maybe more so......and not the first TT we had ever owned either. Our next mission in life was to buy an F250 diesel truck and a 5th wheel (more stability). Even with that rig, I was still very uncomfortable riding as the wheelbases of the truck and camper just never seemed to work well in tandem (sometimes felt as though the camper was trying to push the truck off the road......fixed problem some by adding air bags to the truck). When Ford came out with the integrated tow package on their next models, we traded even though truck was only 3 years old. Huge difference. I can actually read a book and go to sleep now when DH is towing.

Moral of the story: I don't care what the salesperson tells you, do your home work. Figure out what your truck can safely tow and stop and always get as far under those max numbers as you possibly can. Don't tempt fate.

I'm not being a wise guy, but how could you flip like this on a dry road with no wind and no traffic even if your trailer was too heavy? Tire blow out? I just can't picture suddenly losing control for no reason other than towing too much.

 

[caveat lector]

I don't think that's a "wise guy" question. I too like to know cause/effect, so I can mitigate as much of the "cause" as possible.

 

[ftwildernessguy]

I don't think that's a "wise guy" question. I too like to know cause/effect, so I can mitigate as much of the "cause" as possible.

I have to say that because I tend to be a wise guy and I wanted to be taken seriously.

 

[kc5grw]

I have to say that because I tend to be a wise guy and I wanted to be taken seriously.

A proč by to dělat někdo brát vážně?

 

[ftwildernessguy]

And why would that make anybody take you seriously?

It's another of my disclaimers.

 

[I'mDownWithDisney]

I saw a LWB F150 pulling a 25-ish TT do a 180 and flip (several times) going down a dry level interstate. A little wind push from a passing car and improper driver reaction caused it to start whipping side to side. I was directly behind it, and it wasn't pretty. On the first complete roll the camper shell peeled off and flung a dog out. That joker hit the ground running and never looked back. We never did find him. The people were ok...just really shaken up.

 

[LONE-STAR]

I would look for a light weight toy hauler that will fit your golf cart and stay within your towing specs(when fully loaded). That way with the trailer loaded correctly you will get some of the weight off of the truck.

 

[Disney Bunny]

I'm not being a wise guy, but how could you flip like this on a dry road with no wind and no traffic even if your trailer was too heavy? Tire blow out? I just can't picture suddenly losing control for no reason other than towing too much.

Sorry......I just can't agree with your statement. I hope it's okay to post links to articles. Take a look at this one:


http://www.funroads.com/rv-travel/safety/overloaded/

My whole point was that it is better to err on the side of safety and caution instead of pushing the limits.

 

[ftwildernessguy]

Sorry......I just can't agree with your statement. I hope it's okay to post links to articles. Take a look at this one:


http://www.funroads.com/rv-travel/safety/overloaded/

My whole point was that it is better to err on the side of safety and caution instead of pushing the limits.

There isn't anything to agree or disagree with, and the article doesn't change my question - I just asked how you managed to flip a trailer and TV on a dry road with no wind and no other traffic.

 

[Disney Bunny]

There isn't anything to agree or disagree with, and the article doesn't change my question - I just asked how you managed to flip a trailer and TV on a dry road with no wind and no other traffic.

Trailer got "squirelly" on me.....lots of swaying. Tried gently increasing speed, slowing down, and adjusting steering all to no avail. Camper just finally took over and swung completely around and flipped. The end result after trying to look at all the facts that might have contributed to it was the possibility of "too much camper for the tow vehicle". It was a 27 foot Dutchmen camper with one slideout. Maybe we didn't have the weight evenly distributed or something although I can't think of anything we might have changed around prior to starting out that would have been any different from any other trip we had taken in it. Maybe something on the camper broke although nothing really stood out in looking at it afterwards. Camper was just 2 years old at the time and even the insurance adjuster commented on the fact that he could tell, even with the damage, that the camper had been in great shape prior to the accident.

Again, the whole point of my post was with all the things that can go wrong with anything mechanical, why tempt the fates and push the weight limits. Just because you "can" (and you see people doing it every day), doesn't mean you should.

 

[I'mDownWithDisney]

Trailer got "squirelly" on me.....lots of swaying. Tried gently increasing speed, slowing down, and adjusting steering all to no avail. Camper just finally took over and swung completely around and flipped. The end result after trying to look at all the facts that might have contributed to it was the possibility of "too much camper for the tow vehicle". It was a 27 foot Dutchmen camper with one slideout. Maybe we didn't have the weight evenly distributed or something although I can't think of anything we might have changed around prior to starting out that would have been any different from any other trip we had taken in it. Maybe something on the camper broke although nothing really stood out in looking at it afterwards. Camper was just 2 years old at the time and even the insurance adjuster commented on the fact that he could tell, even with the damage, that the camper had been in great shape prior to the accident.

Again, the whole point of my post was with all the things that can go wrong with anything mechanical, why tempt the fates and push the weight limits. Just because you "can" (and you see people doing it every day), doesn't mean you should.

Just curious...did you try to activate only the trailer brakes using the manual control? This will usually settle a swaying trailer fairly quickly.

 

[Disney Bunny]

Just curious...did you try to activate only the trailer brakes using the manual control? This will usually settle a swaying trailer fairly quickly.

Yes, but I don't think I probably reacted quickly enough and we were just too far into the situation to correct it.

 

[disney4dan]

Also because I would rather hear direct from someone with experience rather than those who provide Monday morning quarterback advice, did you encounter this sway when getting up to around 40 mph or more for the first time on the highway that day?

My reason for asking is based on other similar stories where people ultimately found the trailer load was too far behind the axle. A co-worker of mine found this out when picking up a trailer used for environmental testing. It was a replacement trailer with new equipment similar in shape to a travel trailer but designed for on-site environmental testing. They hit nearly uncontrollable trailer sway at around 45 mph on the highway after picking it up. Found that the percent of the weight on the trailer ball was less than 9% of the overall weight. This seems to be the same argument used by the folks that developed the Sherline portable scale to determine the trailer tongue weight.

I have one and found that when we packed to leave the Fort in August 2008 I had less than 600 pounds on my trailer hitch. Just had to move a few items to the front storage compartment and it corrected to where I need to be at around 700 to 750 pounds.

 

[disney4dan]

I was also wondering if you had weight distribution and sway control on your hitch when towing?

When we were kids, my father had replaced a travel trailer with a new bunkhouse style travel trailer. There was a chance to go to Atlanta for an unexpected trip and he did not take the time to install the weight distribution part of the hitch to the new trailer before leaving, was not overly concerned because he was driving a 3/4 ton with extra suspension that I think was called a camper special package or something (designed for more payload in the bed with extra leaf spring capacity). The truck drove terrible due to the amount of "squat" on the rear axle, and one of the front shocks had come loose by the time we reached Atlanta due to the uneven weight distribution. Braking and handling were terrible despite being well within the vehicle weight limits.

 

[ftwildernessguy]

That's what I'm thinking. There had to have been more than just a heavy trailer to cause that much loss of control. I was leaning toward improperly adjusted sway control. There is no way the trailer should have swung that much with sway control set right, a properly adjusted weight distribution hitch and properly adjusted brakes. Generally, an overweight trailer will tear up the drive train of the tow vehicle with time.