A few DCA Rumors....

[roymccoy]

Superstar Limo....

I heard from a higher-up over at TDA that Superstar Limo and Hollywood and Dine
are being re-themed and slated to reopen when the Tower of Terror opens in
2003 or 2004. She said that she bets Tower doesn't get open until Spring of
2004. She said that they are basically going to "re-commemorate" The Hollywood
Backlot area....media blitz, ABC stars, TV special, the whole works. Also, they're
in talks for another Broadway show to come to the Hyperion to coincide with this.
Until this happens, she says, the Backlot is basically going to be a little weak. It's
going to continue to open late and close early and there are no plans that she
knew of to replace Millionaire with anything right away. Hollywood and Dine and
the Backlot area COULD still be used for corporate parties and things like that,
though. She said that DCA is being more and more thought of as a big failure
even among those (including her) that were involved in it's design and
construction. I guess she hadn't heard the one about "the old parking lot
generated more revenue than DCA does" and when I told her, she really thought
about it awhile and said that it was probably true.

No offense to her, but she and her kind are exactly what is wrong with Disney
right now. She was a designer of products for a major healthcare company and
was hired away by Disney to help plan DCA. She really knows nothing about
Disney history and doesn't even go into the parks that much. She's a nice lady,
but she really doesn't understand the Disney magic at all. She might as well be
designing a new Mitsubishi SUV or a new kind of soda pop.

Anyway, that's my report.

Roy

P.S. She did get us in Club 33, though....I guess she ain't all THAT bad!

 

[Planogirl]

So that explains why the Backlot was so empty at night! And reasonably too IMO. Thanks.

Now if someone could just explain the emptiness of most of the rest of the park...

 

[Jeff in BigD]

What, you don't love the carnies at Paradise Pier? Or watching the wonderful world of tortillas? Or looking at farm land? Or getting to see Whoopi in not one, but two attractions? And all for the meager price of $45 (plus tax)...Geez, I guess there's no pleasing some people!

 

[Peter Pirate]

So is EVERYTHING bad at DCA? Lets look a little closer. How many great attractions does DCA have? Answer = 1, Soarin' Over California. How many very good attractions? Answer = 4, Grizzly Rapids, Screamin, ITTBAB, Muppets. How many acceptable lower tier attractions? Answer = 3 , Sun Wheel, Maliboomer, Carousel. So IMO thats a start of 8 attactions worth building around. Also, as to the comment about the carnies at PP...I must say that I never saw a "carnie" at PP, not a single one!!! I saw many very good Castmembers acting as faux-carnies, but they were Castmembers all the way...

Now the claim of $45.00 per person to enter DCA doesn't seem quite right. Maybe that is the published single day admission but who buys it? We were there for four days and bought a 4 day hopper that broke down to 27.50 per day for hopping privelages. From this perspective DCA hardly seems like a negative to me.

On to the Hollywood section. I'm with Planogirl this time. It was very odd having this very lonely area that wasn't even open all that long...But, with the Animation Building, Muppets, the upcoming Aladdin Show, a reopening (and hopefully redo of) Superstar Limo & ToT, this area will be very good indeed.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Disney's big mistake in the way they formulated and implemented DCA...It stinks of "settling" and a one sided cost management philosophy. Further, it is sad that any Disney Management would ever pursue such an incomplete and poorly planned (for the area) project. But still there are some things redeemabe about DCA and it does have a future. Will it ever be Disneyland? No way. But neither is Epcot, MGM or AK...And for that matter, neither is the MK.

 

[larworth]

With all the purging they have done at WDI, why would they need to hire from outside to fill out the DCA planning team? Had to be plenty of experienced “now ex-Disney” people they could have chosen. We’ve heard many stories how Paul and WDI don’t get along. Sounds like a case of cutting off your nose (I can think of other parts) to spite…

This from the most recent Lutz report.

A very detailed model and some drawings have been the talk of WDI's offices recently. The model is interesting because it has part of the Paradise Pier section completely ripped out and made over as an all-new area. The proposal that is being seriously considered by both Team Disney Anaheim (TDA) and Burbank executives believe it or not, scraps the entire "Route 66" area of Paradise Pier.

article

While probably one of many ideas being tossed about I would find it encouraging if true. It would at least show they recognize one of their most egregious errors and are willing to talk about it. I don’t know what step that would put them on, but it would at least show progress.

Interestingly, this idea is not too different than my recent DCA report comment. Keep a small footprint of PP attractions (screamin, sunwheel, maliboomer). Remove everything else. Overlay a Warf theme to what remains. Opens up enough space for several NEW, DISNEY quality attractions. Do this make-over, complete the planned HW projects (new SSL and ToT) and DCA might be moved to “stable condition”, allwoing them to concentrate on the other parks for awhile.

 

[Bob O]

If big portions of the park are closed/empty they should reduce the price of admission accordingly!!! 8 attractions(worth seeing) in the park at a cost of $45.00 listed admission price??? This park is making SF look good in comparison if they are going to have a section open late and close early. Even Sf parks will open some rides late but not whole sections of the park, and then having nothing put in till late 2003 is sad if the rumor is true. Talk about a incomplete park, at least the guests in CA arent going in big numbers and sending a message they wont frequent a substandard park.

 

[doombuggy]

I agree with Peter Pirate. I liked DCA and rode all the wonderful rides there. I have spoken to many people who like it as well. Granted, it is not like the other parks, but i found it nostalgic - the PP section reminds me of the trips i made to the Jersey shore as a child & teen. I really enjoyed the day we spent there - and so did the two teens that were with me. With the addition of the bug's life section and the slated changes to the backlot, this park is going to get improvements! REMEMBER: it took awhile for EuroDisney to reach the black!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[doombuggy]

I agree with Peter Pirate. I liked DCA and rode all the wonderful rides there. I have spoken to many people who like it as well. Granted, it is not like the other parks, but i found it nostalgic - the PP section reminds me of the trips i made to the Jersey shore as a child & teen. I really enjoyed the day we spent there - and so did the two teens that were with me. With the addition of the bug's life section and the slated changes to the backlot, this park is going to get improvements! REMEMBER: it took awhile for EuroDisney to reach the black!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DisOrBust]

Now I know why my industry, healthcare, is such a mess! It must be where all the disenchanted imagineers go!!

 

[Another Voice]

“So is EVERYTHING bad at DCA?”

For the vast majority of people, the answer is “YES!”. Very, very, very few people make the fine one-good, three-okay kind of distinctions about amusement parks before they plop down their $50. It’s a very clear cut go/don't go decision. Even Disney got it when they hacked the price of California Adventure. Still, most people do not find the place "don't go" at $35.00, $27.50 or even free for kids. Bad is bad no matter what the price.

The entire California Adventure project is going to a great book one of these days. It’s no wonder that most of the people involved with the project are backing away from it as quickly as they can*. If I get some time I’ll dig up the L.A. Times article from before the park’s opening where Eisner took credit for everything from the theme to the bathrooms to the parking garage. It’s typical of him to deny involvement in a failed project (anyone ever hear about the Disney Institute) and you can almost hear the cries of “how come no one told me about the California place while I was busy on DisneySea!!!!” coming from Burbank right now*. It’s not really a surprise that others are following his lead.

As for the plans and such – don’t expect anything major. The whole point of backing away from the project is to make it someone else’s problem. WDI (kept out of California Adventure for the most part) has had some things dropped in its lap, but it still lacks the funding or the respect to get anything major accomplished. And they wanted to keep their focus on the ever dwindling plans for Disneyland’s 50th Anniversary (which will mostly be at WDW anyway).

As was stated in the rumor, the basic plan right now is to let everything simply bake in the sun until the sample-size version of ‘Tower of Terror’ opens in a couple years. By then the parks will mostly likely be someone else’s problem, but the ‘Tower’ fix seems like a proactive solution to people right now. Until then costs will continued to be lowered to meet the ever falling attendance. The holiday show has been cancelled and almost all of the upscale restaurants and the bar will go to weekend only operations. Most of the fast food places will continue to be closed or operate for only four hours.

And one last bit of interesting soap opera stuff. There was a blurb in this morning’s Orange County Register that the map maker who owns rights the name ‘California Adventure’ is now suing Disney. Disney’s response is to counter sue the map maker (who used ‘California Adventure’ on a line of tourist maps) for putting Disneyland on its maps. The online version of the article can be found at http://ocregister.com/business/trademark00903cci2.shtml .



* - By the way, expect another major round of DisneySea-bashing coming out through the Disney “controlled” fan sites soon. It seems some people in Burbank were able to find some concerns about attendance in Tokyo which the Americans will use to bolster their “stupid” Japanese line. It’s nothing but an attempt to make California Adventure look “financial responsible” even it’s a creative and business failure. Corporate politics get fun when it’s played out in the open.

Oh and Euro Disney – the park was never the problem with the project. The financial disaster was caused by overbuilding the hotels. The park’s been pretty much paying its own way since the beginning – the exact opposite of the situation at California Adventure.

 

[Mop]

"We believe we have been harmed by the plaintiff's use of the Disney logo and trademark.''

Uhm... howso? What a joke.

Raul/Mop

 

[Peter Pirate]

Most people don't like Soarin' Over California? That's rich.

Also Voice, you above most people know darn well that the 50.00 daily entry fee to DCA means little if anything. The people who are going to DCA are either AP'ers, hopper purchaser's or discount coupon buyers, so whose losing here? I would have bought my 4 day hoppers to DL even had DCA not been there (that's still just 27.75 a day vs. the 50.00 daily fee you like to throw around) so can you say that for me or virtually anyone like us that we got less for our money because we got to go to DCA??? That makes no sense whatsoever...

 

[DisneyFanGuy]

I payed nine bucks extra (using my friends Southern CA discount) last spring to visit DCA and DL in the same day. I thought I got my money's worth, but I couldn't imagine paying full price. I think many many folks are like me and go for one or two days, vs. 4 like at WDW, so it really is a different animal.

Soarin' is as good as anything Disney has built, IMHO. It was far too cold to do the rapids ride, but we did see Millionaire, ITTBAG, Muppets, Screaming, and the Whoopie Movie. I also saw Blast!, which was (for me) worth the nine bucks alone. I really enjoyed the day.

But......here is the kicker. I would go to DL again in a heartbeat, but have no real desire to return to DCA unless I had (as Mr. Pirate suggested) 3-4 days on property. Why? Because I had the same feeling that others describe of it not really being very special. It felt kind of like visiting Camp Snoopy in the Mall of America in MN. Lots of places asking for my money, but just not a lot that is really "special" to do. Soarin' is really the exception, and everyone that I know of who has been on it loves it, but it's just not enough.

If I have three days, then I might go if it's convenient. If I have to choose for one or two days....it's Disneyland all the way. I mean why choose a peanut butter sandwich over a steak dinner? If you only get one meal, then take the better one.

And that's why I think most people dislike DCA. It's because the very best theme park in the world is standing next door. If you have to choose, then you had better choose wisely and MOST people that I know spend one or two days at the resort, while they spend at least 3-5 at WDW.

So if they have one day, what are they going to choose? A place with 15-20 wonderful attractions that they can't see anywhere else, or a park that has Soarin'?

It is very much a quality issue, not because they are terrible, but because they are being compared every day with something far better.

The ONLY way to fix it, is to develop a vision of a park that compares to DL, and then to spend the cash to do it well. Nothing else will do it. They need at least 3 more mind blowing e- tickets that people talk about around water coolers. They need to spend an additional 400 million dollars, not for a new theme, but for high quality experiences that wow their audience. Until then, attendance will continue to dwindle until the place just dies.

That's why, in my mind, TDS is doing well. It really does compete, right from opening day, with TD. And the stuff that they are changing is fine tuning stuff to respond to their guest surveys. From what I have seen, all of their E-Tickets are stunning. People have favorites and things that they don't like, just as people do in every great Disney Park. Even smaller attractions like the Aquatopia are unusual enough, and well enough done to generate time on a Discovery Channel special. Now that's a place that I want to check out!

I haven't seen a Discovery Channel special on DCA that evokes the same emotions.

Also when I was actually at DCA, I kept thinking about when I could get across the way and catch a couple of DL classics.

So that sums it up for me. I did like DCA, but not enough to give up my time at DL. Good luck to Disney, because building a park that will favorably compete with a legend requires more money and vision then they can currently provide. They just don't have the guts to do it well anymore.

 

[Another Voice]

“The people who are going to DCA are either AP'ers, hopper purchaser's or discount coupon buyers, so whose losing here?”

Disney is.

While AP’ers and parkhopping tourists make up DCA’s current attendance, the market for the park are the millions and millions of non-AP single day visiting locals. The same local market that has made Disneyland so tremendously successful for half a century (and continues to do so even today).

And yes, I know darn well that very few people pay full price for DCA. That’s another problem. After two solid summers of “Get In Cheap!!!!” ads, people in Southern California still see no reason to visit the place. To rephrase, the $50.00 entry fee means nothings. As does the $47.00 fee, the $35.00 fee, a $27.50 average for tourists and the $0.00 fee for kids. People do not like DCA no matter what price they charge for it.

THAT ought to tell you something right there. There are fundamental problems with the appeal of the park (as DisneyFanGuy has explained). Individuals may be love with absolutely every square inch of the park, BUT Disney is trying to appeal to over seven million people a year, not just dedicated Disney fans (where even they have to get in at a discount).

Don't discount (pardon the pun) the tremendous financial drain this park is having even way out there on the east coast. More than a few budgets for WDW projects have been cancelled or diverted to Disneyland's parking lot.

 

[Peter Pirate]

Well now you're talking 'big picture' again and certainly I understand that and I agree wth everything you say. But it gets a little frustrating hearing that every single part of DCA sucks from so many posts (trying to be cute or generalize).

My argument on this thread is that DCA has redeeming qualities for those visitors to DL with hoppers, etc. I will repeat, was my trip worse off because of DCA? No, of course not. Was it better? Yes it was. Not a great deal, but we did spend 25% of our time at DCA and enjoyed what we did immensely. It did add to our experience even while beng able to see that it is just a shadow of what it could have been (or could still be).

Is Disney the loser in this? Yes they are, but all DL visitors are not.

 

[DizVilnTT]

Well, don't worry guys. The DCA people know that nobody in their right mind will pay full price for the park, so they will be thinking of new and exciting ways to lure us to DCA (at least until the bare-bones version of TOT comes along). Also, I think that now they have kids get in free.

Anyway, I also agree that DCA isn't a total loss. Annual passholders have a blast at the park. They repeatedly go to Millionaire, Screamin', Soarin', etc. They sometimes go for dinner and hang around Paradise Pier (Which, I think, isn't as bad as people say, it is superbly detailed, even though the rides may be off-the-shelf), or they'll just go to MK and then hotfoot over to DCA for the Electrical Parade (and yes, it does look weird at DCA).
The point of all my ramblings is that a good time can be had at DCA, you just need to know where and when to look.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Mr. Pirate and My-Lord-Liege:

How does this fit into the mix? I “borrowed” it from Mouseplanet. For the whole thing click HERE. The salient point is below:

"A very detailed model and some drawings have been the talk of WDI's offices recently. The model is interesting because it has part of the Paradise Pier section completely ripped out and made over as an all-new area. The proposal that is being seriously considered by both Team Disney Anaheim (TDA) and Burbank executives believe it or not, scraps the entire "Route 66" area of Paradise Pier.

That section of DCA currently is home to the tacky roadside carnival area that features the problematic Golden Zephyr spinner ride, the ugly Mullholland Madness roller coaster, the Jumpin' Jellyfish kiddy ride, as well as the McDonalds and the giant pink dinosaur souvenir shop.

That half of Paradise Pier from the Golden Dreams building all the way to the Orange Stinger swing ride would be replaced with a more lushly themed extension of the San Francisco area. A cable car family dark ride, as well as San Francisco themed stores and restaurants, would be included.

The WDI folks would like to make this new San Francisco section DCA's version of New Orleans Square, the lushly detailed facades hiding all new stores and unique attractions that would celebrate California's city by the bay. It would cost a heck of a lot more than the simple carnival rides and McDonalds that currently occupy that space. But it's hoped that this change to DCA would boost the Park's struggling image, and fix the embarrassing oversight of having San Francisco almost completely absent from the DCA themed experience."

So? What’d think?




Peter a special (PS) for you.

But it gets a little frustrating hearing that every single part of DCA sucks from so many posts (trying to be cute or generalize).

Peter, it’s like having a ball team. And every single player deserve to be playing double “A” if not high school ball. Except two, who are definitely headed to the Hall of Fame. Yeah those players sure are good!! Isn’t it wonderful!! Aren’t they great to watch!! BUT THE TEAM HASN’T WON A GAME FOR TEN YEARS!!! In other words, the team sucks even though they have a star or two. Same as DCA sucks even though they have Soarin’. In either case, not many people want to buy a ticket!!!!

Not a great deal, but we did spend 25% of our time at DCA and enjoyed what we did immensely.

I totally understand your point. BUT! Don’t you see that for Disney to build a park that can capture only 25% of one of the most biased Disney nuts in the world, well, to put it plainly, the place just ain’t cutting it! Can you imagine what would have happened if EPCOT could garner ONLY 25% support of ONLY it’s most ardent fans? Nah! DCA is a loser. Plain and simple. And I take it personally!! Cause it’s cutting into MY HOURS!!!!!

 

[Peter Pirate]

Jeff, like I said I whole heartedly agree...I was only speaking 'small picture' here. There are some good things to be had even though the Park should be an embarrasment to those who green-lighted it or maybe more justly to those who approved (or forced) the budget.

With regard to that idea that you posted, look back at my post CA. trip postings and you'll see that I suggested a removal of that exact area and specified a SF 'trolley' type dark ride(although I called for it in a different area)...Maybe they are listening...

 

[YoHo]

Hey Landbaron, that new remake might intrigue me if the REAL City By the Bay weren't so frickin close by. DCA's entire concept is questionable obviously. I don't see how a Dark ride about an existing city would be interesting. Unless it involved some sort of historicalness. or an Earthquake type thing.

 

[King Triton]

Where's the magic with DCA? Superstar Limo is a disaster. Painted on board pictures??? Come on, Disney quality is using life like moving robots. (Superstar Limo was built cheap and no way Walt would have approved that!) Disney is the king of dark rides and we're seeing blown opportunities to make DCA unique and great! Who in the heck wants to see how tortillas are made? Or another Whoopi movie (Disney thinks sticking in more movies attractions is a lot cheaper than building a high quality ride). We don't go to Disney to see movies - we want the Disney magic dark rides!!! Hello!!!!!

I love Disney and I know they can do better than that! When I go back to Disneyland this December, I have no plans to go back to DCA. I'm staying the entire time at Disneyland. Hey, I go to Disney for the magic. The people who designed DCA need to study how DisneySea was built - now that's how you do a new park! (Don't give us the excuse DisneySea has more sponsors - get more sponsors if you have to HERE!!!! Do whatever it takes, but just do it!) Why is it Japanese people care more about quality and Americans will settle for anything over here? Disney spent very little for DCA and now it's backfiring with a low turn out. You get what you pay for Mr. Eisner. We know what the problem is.

Tower of Terror is a cool ride, but we already have that at Disney/MGM Studios in Florida. DCA needs something BIG and NEW! Something like a Journey Into the Center of the Earth ride. How many of us will actually go over to Japan any time soon? Bring over some of their unique rides over here.

I'm a Disney fan for life! But come on guys...you imagineers can do better than that for DCA! Take out the cheap rides and movies and surprise us with something BIG! Until then, I'll pass on DCA for now.

If Walt were alive today and someone gave him the plans for DCA - here's what Walt would have said, "Son, tear up these plans and start all over. Haven't I taught you better about what the Disney magic quality is all about?"

King Triton