a family of eight who hates forced 18% tip

[luckytobeme88]

I didn't have the time to read over every posts (there are so many for a new thread) I could understand what both sides are trying to prove. We went to DC two yrs ago, and ate lunch at a non-fancy restaurant near Chinatown. There were 4 of us and they added 15% tip to the bill. The service was beyond bad (too long to rant) The bill w/tips came close to $30. We left $26.00 cash on the table then walked out. As far as WDW restaurants, we never have any problem with the service. Even DDP where tips were included, DH has always gave extra $$ at the end of our meals. Absolutely nothing can trump my DC experience.

 

[missypie]

I don't recall if we've heard from anyone in restaurant management. The way they manage can really set the tone, and possibly cause servers some tips.

Last week we had a late dinner at a local pizza place. About a quarter of the tables were filled, yet there was food ALL over the floor. There were a bunch of employees just standing around doing nothing. Where was management, telling folks to clean up (since they obviously weren't self-motivated)? When you walk in to a mseey place, it can't help but color your opinion of how you're going to be treated.

Another example: Last night we ate at a rib place. They always have an employee walking around passing out fresh rolls. The restraurant wasn't very full. The roll girl didn't have much to do, so she got a rag and started wiping down tables that had been cleared but that were still dirty. The manager came over and told her to stop because they had bus boys to do that. So, there was a 16 year old who just had a bit of "it's not my job" attitude planted into her by management.

 

[seven dwarfs]

Since a few people on this thread feel the need to make the comment about me probably not tipping well anyway.....

I want to re-explain my concern. I am not saying my family should not pay 18%-20% tip. I am not saying my bill may be a little bit smaller from kids meals which are not so cheep anymore. (We paid last night $8.00 for kids meals x 6 = not cheep.) My complaint is, servers seem to treat us unfairly and the ones who do automatically add the tip. At the places we go with outstanding service the tip is not added. And we always tip well. I appreciate not only not being told how much to tip but the fact we were treated in a way that is the servers job.

I also would like to add that I am not petty. I do not get upset for silly things like the eight drinks coming out taking longer then it would for just two drinks. I do get upset when I ask for refills and never get them. When the server never comes and checks to see if we need anything. I do think there are servers who need to find another job. It is hard work and takes a special person who can multi task. Then there are servers who are good at there job who treat us unfair because they know the money will be decided at the end of the meal so who cares. And I won't leave out the few servers who are excellent who bust their but, treat us wonderful and we compensate then well.

If you have a large family you know what I am saying because chances are you have experienced this. A smaller family may not have had these experiences. I bet if it became an automatic tip added no matter what size your party is, there would be a ton more people who would understand where I am coming from.


And I will close with, we recently went to a restaurant (can't remember where) that did not charge us the automatic tip. And at the bottom of our receipt the tip was figured at 15%, 18% and 20%. I thought this was a great thing to do. I did not have to think and it also shows people a choice.

 

[luckytobeme88]

So it is not about the tips anymore? or it is really about the "bad" service?

 

[missypie]

So it is not about the tips anymore? or it is really about the "bad" service?

When you put "bad" in quotes, are you implying that none of us ever actually receives bad service? Like I said before, there are good servers and bad servers, just like there are good and bad teachers, doctors and WalMart employees.

 

[tloft]

Another example: Last night we ate at a rib place. They always have an employee walking around passing out fresh rolls. The restraurant wasn't very full. The roll girl didn't have much to do, so she got a rag and started wiping down tables that had been cleared but that were still dirty. The manager came over and told her to stop because they had bus boys to do that. So, there was a 16 year old who just had a bit of "it's not my job" attitude planted into her by management.

Some restaurants managers do not want someone that handles food to handle dirty dish rags. This is one of the problems in restaurant management. You cannot make everyone happy. Where you saw an ineffective manager someone else would have been disgusted if they saw the girl with rolls wiping down dirty tables. Obviously I do not know if this is the case in your instance, but I would not want servers, bartenders, or hostesses handling garbage in front of customers.

 

[missypie]

Some restaurants managers do not want someone that handles food to handle dirty dish rags. This is one of the problems in restaurant management. You cannot make everyone happy. Where you saw an ineffective manager someone else would have been disgusted if they saw the girl with rolls wiping down dirty tables. Obviously I do not know if this is the case in your instance, but I would not want servers, bartenders, or hostesses handling garbage in front of customers.

You are probably correct about the policy. But we were at the restaurant for about 20 minutes after she was told not to wipe down the table, and a busboy never came to finish cleaning up. (And like I said, the place was pretty empty.)

That has really become a pet peeve for me lately....on several recent occasions, I've had to wipe up or ask someone to wipe up my seat so I don't sit in food/sticky, etc. I've stopped going to one of my favorite places because of late, the floor is always "movie theatre sticky" and that just grosses me out. (No, it's not Chucky Cheeses-it's allegedly upscale Mexican.)

I think this is squarely a managment issue. I have a 16 year old son. I know that if he was a busboy, he would not be feeling the chairs to see if they were sitcky, wiping the table down completely, etc. UNLESS a manager was on his tail at first telling him it was required.

 

[missypie]

tloft, I was just thinking more about your answer. The roll girl was obviously new and it was a slow night. It would have been a perfect opportunity for the manager to tell the girl WHY a food handler shouldn't wipe up tables, rather than just saying it's the busboy's job. Managers of causal restaurants work with a lot of young people...probably a lot where it's their very first job. They could do so much to either make or break the future work force.

 

[luckytobeme88]

I am totally confused now. What does everything else have to do with the tips now?

 

[tloft]

tloft, I was just thinking more about your answer. The roll girl was obviously new and it was a slow night. It would have been a perfect opportunity for the manager to tell the girl WHY a food handler shouldn't wipe up tables, rather than just saying it's the busboy's job. Managers of causal restaurants work with a lot of young people...probably a lot where it's their very first job. They could do so much to either make or break the future work force.

I certainly didn't know the particulars of your situation. Unfortunately bad management is prevalent everywhere, not just restaurants. My point was only that people often overlook the other side of issues. A dirty restaurant does not deserve to be frequented and I would see this as a management issue more than a server issue.

The original point of this thread was whether or not people had a problem with the 18% gratuity being automatically added. It seems to me that a lot of the people against the auto-gratuity object because they have had bad experiences where they didn't want to tip this much and are afraid of those being repeated. When I dine out with my extended family (which we do fairly frequently) there will be 6 children under 7 at the table and usually another 7 or 8 adults. So we often end up using at least 2, sometimes 3 tables in a servers section. If I am not mistaken the OP indicated that she feels like the servers see this many kids and automatically give poor service. I always make a point to say something like "take your time - I know this many kids can be a handful" or "I bet you were hoping to wait on this many kids tonight." This lets the server know right off the bat without being heavy handed that you are on their side and understand the job they have ahead of them. We almost never have a problem. When we do have a problem I leave a 15% tip and do not go back to that restaurant. If I had a particular attachment to the restaurant I might speak to the owner or manager; however, I expect as high a standard from my childrens' behavior as I do from the restaurant. It is not reasonable for me to expect the kids to stay quite, still, and well mannered in a slow restaurant. I simply don't go back.

Also, do people really think the servers really notice the differences between 12, 15, and 18% tips. I kind of doubt it. Especially since most customers tip after tax when it is perfectly acceptable to tip on the pre-tax totals. If you're tip 18% pretax its about the same as 15% after tax. I think servers notice good tips (> 20%). I don't think anyone really says "That customer only left me 14% - I think I need to offer a little better service." Doesn't happen.

My final point would be find restaurants that you genuinely enjoy dining at and you'll be surprised how quickly you will not care about an auto gratuity. The quality of service over time is a direct reflection of management and policies and should remain consistent.

 

[Disneytwinz]

You live in New Jersey and leave a 15% tip for exceptional service? Or is 15% your normal tip?

I live in NJ and I normally tip between 15%-20%, sometimes it works out to be more than that. I believe that is fair.

 

[missypie]

My final point would be find restaurants that you genuinely enjoy dining at and you'll be surprised how quickly you will not care about an auto gratuity. The quality of service over time is a direct reflection of management and policies and should remain consistent.

That is why I am so disappointed in our local upscale Mexican place that has devolved into a sticky floor place. When it first opened, the food was very good and the service was fantastic. Then, it slid to "normal" service...now, the food is still of the same quality, but the floor is sticky and the waiters are very unattentive. I really don't know what happened.

 

[tloft]

That is why I am so disappointed in our local upscale Mexican place that has devolved into a sticky floor place. When it first opened, the food was very good and the service was fantastic. Then, it slid to "normal" service...now, the food is still of the same quality, but the floor is sticky and the waiters are very unattentive. I really don't know what happened.

I know we are veering off topic, but if I had to guess the original owners are probably no longer as involved in the day to day operations and the decline in quality has yet to show up on the bottom line. If the people who originally ran it so well are still involved at all there may be some hope. If they sold it to someone and that is when the decline began it will probably not improve.

 

[missypie]

I know we are vearing off topic, but if I had to guess the original owners are probably no longer as involved in the day to day operations and the decline in quality has yet to show up on the bottom line. If the people who originally ran it so well are still involved at all there may be some hope. If they sold it to someone and that is when the decline began it will probably not improve.

I do know that for a while they opened a second restaurant nearby, more seafood oriented. I think it closed because it was in one of those "cursed" locations where every restaurant seems to fail. They probably did turn their attention to their new place, but I don't think that's an excuse anymore. But you're probably right....as long as the money keeps rolling in, they won't see a need to get more involved.

 

[vickyBaby]

We leave a larger tip like many have said as well, for exceptional service. It's 15% where I live. The tip at Disney is expected to be 18%...that is in excess of what the national average for a tip.

15%? for New Jersey? Most people I know tip 20%. 15% is not an "Exceptional" tip.

What's the National Average and please supply a link to your source.

 

[byoung]

I agree tip should be up to you, and the service you received.

 

[Disneytwinz]

15%? for New Jersey? Most people I know tip 20%. 15% is not an "Exceptional" tip.

What's the National Average and please supply a link to your source.
~~~~
You could read it that way, however what I meant was We leave a larger tip like many have said as well, for exceptional service.
It's 15% where I live (minimum). ...
I didn't mean we leave an exceptional tip of 15%. Sorry for the wording in my sentence.
We also don't live in north NJ, we're in South NJ- big difference if you ask me being nearer NY.
Anyhow, yes most tips range between 15%-20% 15% being what an national average service would recieve.http://msms.essortment.com/propertippinge_rmuv.htm

http://www.fodors.com/features/nfdisplay1.cfm?name=stt/010124_stt_tg_usa.cfm

http://www.bremercommunications.com/Tipping.htm

http://www.preferredconsumer.com/food_drink/articles/tipping_basics.html

http://ezinearticles.com/?Tipping-and-Etiquette-in-the-United-States&id=505658
(I put my money where my mouth is.)
Tipping is most often associated with dining out and for most people, it's something that's done without much thought. It has long been customary to leave a tip of 15%-20% of the total bill, with higher amounts reserved from exceptional service. What many people don't realize, however, is that tips should be calculated before any adjustments are made for coupons and other discounts. You should also consider leaving a larger tip if your party consists of 8 people or more.

There are two notable exceptions to the 15%-20% guideline. The first is when you are dining at a buffet. In this case, the service is typically limited to providing drinks and clearing away dirty dishes and so 10% is typically acceptable. The second is for room service. Again, 10%-15% is generally considered to be acceptable in this case - just be sure that a gratuity hasn't already been added to your bill.

 

[DisneyClay]

I once went to a christmas party and they added the tip to the the bill. I saw the waiter may be one time. I was so mad.

 

[ExPirateShopGirl]

Serving the public can often be a thankless task. If you don't think so, spend a week as a waiter, a cashier or any kind of customer service rep.

That being said, and human nature being what it is... I would bet that even if a waiter or waitress provided EXCELLENT service all the time, he or she would average less than 15%. Of course, no one on this board tips under 20% but (gasp) there are people that do.

With that in mind, I like to approach each dining experience with a positive attitude. First and foremost, our family is enjoying a meal together. That in and of itself is the most important aspect of the event. Secondly, we're either returning to a favorite restaurant or trying some place new. We're either expecting the same great food we know, or hoping to to try new food that may become a favorite. Lastly, we have someone serving us who may or may not be swamped, and who may or may not be new, and who may or may not be attentive. As diners, we have no control over the first two aspects of the waiter or waitress' circumstances. We do, however, have control over his or her attentiveness. If my kids are on the thirsty side, dadgumit, I will respectfully make sure my waiter or waitress knows this, and allow him or her to alter how he or she serves a table to suit us. It's really that simple.

I don't really care if 18% is added to my bill. It saves me the trouble of figuring it myself. I know how hard it is to please the public. I'm glad I'm not the one waitressing. Overtippers and perfect children are not the norm, despite DIS statistics heavily skewed the other direction.

YMMV

 

[It's A Happy Day]

Someone posted this on another thread and I really like the idea! It was suggested (and I think it could be applied to all, not just parties over 6) that when the receipt prints, the consumer/patron, gets a multiple choice feature. 10%, 15%, 20% or some sort of % so that the person leaving the tip will be able to determine how "good" or "bad" their experience was AND the amount is already figured out so noone has to sit their and try to think I do think it is the restaurants responsibility to pay their staff, not the consumer but that is a whole 'nother arguement