a family of eight who hates forced 18% tip

[Disneytwinz]

Imo, I think what they should have considered is stating mandatory 18% on parties of 8 or more.

 

[Kami]

When I go anywhere that has this policy and I have a group with me, I tell them up front, "I tip very well for good service, if you put the mandatory tip on my check, that's all you're getting"

After I tell them that, they never include the tip in my bill.

If I was your waitress and you said that to me, I would absolutely put the gratuity on! That is pretty rude and insulting! Keep your extra 5 or 10%, I wouldn't be desperate enough to want it.

 

[meandtheguys2]

If I was your waitress and you said that to me, I would absolutely put the gratuity on! That is pretty rude and insulting! Keep your extra 5 or 10%, I wouldn't be desperate enough to want it.

I don't think that is rude at all. It is just saying that if you legislate the tip, that is all you will receive. I don't like being told what I have to do. A tip is a payment of gratitude for good service. It shouldn't be regulated by the establishment.

 

[Kami]

I think it helps. Behaviors have natural and logical consequences. Last week, the server took our orders (just the two of us), brought our food, and charged us for an item we didn't order, no refills, and we had to wait 10 minutes for her to appear after we finally got someone else to tell her our bill was wrong. She was far too nonchalant about her mistake, and I knew she had done the same sort of thing to the family behind us. I left a 10% tip, because the order was correct and left her a quick note. I also called the manager the next day about a couple of other non-server issues that had occured while there, and stated the service was just barely adequate.

On the flip-side, though, I will leave a big tip for great service. At a diner, I will sometimes leave 100%. Especially if I see them stiffed at another table. I never felt the folks who work the expensive places warranted so much more than those who could only find jobs in the family establishments.

Mistakes happen! I can't believe that you would go to the manager just because you were accidentally charged an extra drink! I know many restaurants where the waitstaff has to add the bill. When they are extremely busy (or maybe they just added wrong), they may have totaled the bill wrong. Look over your bill! It's not a big deal to say to them, excuse me you accidentally charged me for a coke. Wow! This is definitely a job in which people are judging your every move and some seem to be looking for flaws. I can't imagine "telling the manager" on someone in any field unless they were rude or mean. Most are doing it to provide for family, and to possibly make them look bad for a mistake is pretty mean. Not all of us are perfect, mistakes happen!

 

[Kami]

If you don't like the 18% policy, write a letter(s) to the restaurant and don't go if they keep the policy. Don't take it out on the waitstaff. When we went to Disney with the DDP we were automatically charged 18% for any extras. It all works out the same. We were fortunate to have had the DDP for that price, with the tip included. I didn't believe it before, but maybe Disney did take away the included tip in the DDP because people complained that their server didn't deserve it.

 

[lilsweetpea]

I have worked in the restaurant business for years, and I want to let you know that while a gratuity may be "suggested" on your big parties, you DO NOT have to pay it. The restaurant cannot make you pay the gratuity if you do not feel it is appropriate.

 

[dqpowell]

Karl was most likely there for an hour or two setting up the restaurant before it opened, and/or staying well after he finished waiting tables doing things like rolling silverware, filling salt shakers or any other basic cleaning/sidework chores. Not to mention only having one or two tables while it's slow, or any number of scenarios. It's not like they get to come in, bust out some cash during the dinner rush, and go straight home.

Yes, I know. That's why I specified "during that 90 minute period." And despite all that, on a typical night, even if nobody at any of Karl's tables orders wine, and even including the slow times when Karl has only a table or two, by the end of the night he is walking out of the restaurant with reasonable income for his work. You can't honestly say that at most restaurants (especially Disney restaurants) that Karl is barely scraping together minimum wage. I recall (in a previous discussion here) somebody saying that a typical Disney restaurant server grosses something like $60,000 per year. Somebody being paid minimum wage and working 40 hours per week would gross about $10,000 a year.

Checkout alone takes up 20 minutes at my restaurant.

Your restaurant needs a more efficient checkout procedure, but that's neither here nor there.

All at a whopping $2.13/hr. So you have to average that $40 hour in with all the other hours Carl works, before you can claim to know how much he makes.

That $40 per hour statement was not a claim to know how much Karl makes overall. It was to point out that even if he handles four tables in 90 minutes and none of those tables orders wine or expensive entrees, he's still making over $40 per hour on the diners with inexpensive tastes. I know you can't assume he's making the same amount per hour when he's refilling salt shakers, etc. If he always made $40 per hour, he'd gross over $83,000 per year.

Not saying Karl and I DON'T make more money than your degreed colleagues, we probably do.

And so your point was... what, exactly? I was pointing out that even if a server gets tables of "cheap" diners who order inexpensive entrees and abstain from wine, Karl is still making money, probably more during that 90 minute period than some of my colleagues make in the same amount of time. You wrote to take issue with what I wrote, but then confirmed my statement.

And there is far more to it than you know or see.

Um, no. There isn't. I didn't bring up every last detail of a server's job or day at work because it wasn't relevant to the discussion. I have not worked as a server myself, but I have family members who have and I have heard it all from them before. My sister would complain all the time about various problems at work, difficult customers, etc. I asked her one time, "then why don't you quit and get a job at a bookstore?" Because despite all the gripes, she was making enough money working three evenings per week in the restaurant to pay for her master's degree program.

Once again, I'm being pushed into a position that makes it seem like I'm "anti-server." I'm not. I appreciate the work they do and I'm more than willing to tip well when that work is done well. But I don't like being told what I'm required to tip, just because I'm in a group of 6 or 8 people. I don't buy the claims that servers are taxed on money they didn't earn. And I don't believe that most servers, who work very hard on any given evening, would do so if they could barely eke out minimum wage doing it.

I could regale everybody here with the trials and tribulations of being an engineer and technical writer, the annoyances in my typical work day, gripes about pay, etc. Nobody would be interested. This thread was not started by a server. It was started by a diner who dislikes being told what she must tip just because her family is a large group. I happen to agree with her.

David

 

[halld6479]

I am having a problem understanding the tip thing if you are a family of 8 and all are on the ddp plan in fact is the waiter not making a ton of tips if each ddp card is charged 18% for a tip? same with a party of two on DDp isn't the waiter actually making 36% tip of tips?

 

[mom2my3kids]

I don't think that is rude at all. It is just saying that if you legislate the tip, that is all you will receive. I don't like being told what I have to do. A tip is a payment of gratitude for good service. It shouldn't be regulated by the establishment.

It may already be in the computer system when you enter in how many guests also, Unfortunately my IHOP does not add gratuity to any checks. Its simple if you get good service you tip 15-20 percent of the bill. It does not matter if you order a 5.00 cheeseburger or a 20.00 steak you tip 15-20 percent of the bill. NOW if you get horrible service then you tip accordingly or don't tip at all its up to you. I don't expect someone to tip if they have gotten horrible service. For example, Took forever to bring drinks 15-20 minutes, never got one refill the whole time and seen Jenny over talking to a table of guys, Was out right rude when you asked for a refill, Never brought your check when she did it took 20 minutes to get your change...These are some examples I find should never happen and could see why someone would not tip..But Please don't go in looking for a reason because I am sure you would find one..

 

[mom2my3kids]

Ask yourself this, when you say well if you don't like your job just quit..Well if all of us servers said "take this job and shove it", who would wait on you when you went out to eat..


THANK YOU!!!!

 

[dqpowell]

Ask yourself this, when you say well if you don't like your job just quit..Well if all of us servers said "take this job and shove it", who would wait on you when you went out to eat.

Those people that like their jobs as servers, or like the pay enough to continue doing it despite the annoyances.

David

 

[mom2my3kids]

Those people that like their jobs as servers, or like the pay enough to continue doing it despite the annoyances.

David

Your a funny man David..

 

[LadyTrampScamp&Angel]

I'll admit to not having read this entire thread - so many pages.

Just yesterday I was looking at something, I think it was the Luau? that said 18% tip included. My first reaction was indignation, a little, at being made to pay a certain percentage tip, but then I thought well, that's about what we leave anyway so it's not a big issue. Maybe we're lucky but we rarely experience truly bad service in any restaurant, in all our trips only one time in a Disney restaurant (and that one is gone now, yay!). I think if I had a big problem with the service, then I might express displeasure to a manager over a mandatory tip. On a normal day, it is about what we would leave anyway (yes, really), and an extra $3 per $100 mandatory tip isn't enough to be worth my time to fuss about (assuming a standard 15% tip would be left anyway). For excellent service they get more like 20%.

We've had excellent service at some Disney restaurants, at least very good at most all, I could tell ya stories . . . I actually had a server at Mama Melrose refuse to take any more money from me when I offered it, she had done something I felt was extrememly nice.

Luckily I've never waited tables, thankfully because I think it would be worse than retail stores - which I've done and swear I will never do again!

 

[meandtheguys2]

Mistakes happen! I can't believe that you would go to the manager just because you were accidentally charged an extra drink! I know many restaurants where the waitstaff has to add the bill. When they are extremely busy (or maybe they just added wrong), they may have totaled the bill wrong. Look over your bill! It's not a big deal to say to them, excuse me you accidentally charged me for a coke. Wow! This is definitely a job in which people are judging your every move and some seem to be looking for flaws. I can't imagine "telling the manager" on someone in any field unless they were rude or mean. Most are doing it to provide for family, and to possibly make them look bad for a mistake is pretty mean. Not all of us are perfect, mistakes happen!

It was an empty sports bar (maybe 10 customers total, Sunday evening) with a dozen staff hanging around complaining about management. Loudly. There were unbussed tables, liquid on the tile floor, and they lost 2 sets of customers because the hostess was busy arguing with someone on her cell phone. So, as I stated in my post I called the restaurant for a variety of reasons. I worked my way through college in restaurants. Amongst other jobs. I know people make mistakes. Our cracker barrel server who wrote my order down incorrectly the week previous was give a very nice tip, because of her attitude, and helpfulness.

mom2, I always try to look for the positive with retail, servers, and daycares! I spent too many years in those fields, and know the difficulties.

 

[Jubilee]

After two years of lurking on this forum I finally have to respond to the person that said restaurants have kept pace with inflation. As a restaurant owner and someone who has worked in the restaurant business their entire adult life, this is a patently untrue statement. Overwhelming growth and competition in the restaurant industry has kept the growth of menu prices extremely stagnant. The emergence of high end restaurants have caused more people to see new "high" prices for the first time mistaking them for inflation. This is comparing apples to oranges. I believe I have created a decent apples to apples comparison using menu prices from a TGI Fridays using a menu from a location in 1982 and a current menu. I have used the Bureau of Labor Consumer Price Index calculator to determine the proper inflated price. Since portion sizes have only increased in the past 20 years this should only heighten the disparity. Here is what I found:

1982 Price CPI Adjustment for 2007 2007 Actual
Mozz Sticks 3.45 7.45 5.99
Nachos 5.45 11.77 7.59
Pot Skins 5.6 12.09 6.99
Cobb Salad 5.45 11.77 7.79
Chix Walnut Salad 5.65 12.2 8.99 (sub Pecan Crusted Chix Salad)
Hamburger Plate 5.75 12.41 5.99
Kids Hot Dog 1.95 4.21 3.95
Kuds Burger 2.75 5.94 3.95
Totals 36.05 77.84 51.24

Difference from Consumer Price Index $26.6
% Less Than Consumer Price Index 34.17%


This is the reason tip percentages have increased. A rise of 15% to 20% over the last ten years still does not compensate for the lag most restaurants have behind inflation. The vast majority of waiting/waitressing jobs in this country are in chain restaurants that would follow this same pattern.

I have never been tempted to enter the fray about how to or what to tip. Bad tippers will be bad tippers no matter what. But if someone is still tipping 10 or 15% on the assumption that restaurants are keeping pace with inflation could use a little proof to the contrary.

Thank you -- and congrats on post 1. You made it a good one.

 

[Jubilee]

Luckily I've never waited tables, thankfully because I think it would be worse than retail stores - which I've done and swear I will never do again!

I worked retail management and waiting tables and I think it's a bit of a toss up. I was probably blatantly treated worse for no reason in retail, but I also wasn't relying on tips either.

 

[mom2my3kids]

When I was 16 I worked the Layaway department at my local Hills Department Store (Now out of business), can you imagine Christmas and lost layaways..

 

[LadyTrampScamp&Angel]

That's a good point Jubilee, waiting tables might be better because of the tips (well, then we're back to this discussion)!

 

[robinb]

We leave a larger tip like many have said as well, for exceptional service. It's 15% where I live. The tip at Disney is expected to be 18%...that is in excess of what the national average for a tip.

You live in New Jersey and leave a 15% tip for exceptional service? Or is 15% your normal tip?

 

[DiszyDeanette]

If I was your waitress and you said that to me, I would absolutely put the gratuity on! That is pretty rude and insulting! Keep your extra 5 or 10%, I wouldn't be desperate enough to want it.

Amen. Anybody who wants to tip more is free to do so. Those that SAY they will are all talk 99% of the time. No way I'm risking that over somebody's ego. I like big parties. MOST of my big parties DO throw in extra and I do very well with them. But anybody 'warning' me not to add it? They get a smile, and "sorry, it's automatic".