A different perspective on D23

[LudwigVB]

After completely agreeing with Pete that D23 was not what we had hoped for, I am interested in the opinions of others regarding what D23 is. Having grown up in central Florida, the theme parks were my childhood playground. I took them for granted and began to enjoy them much, much more as I grew older.

For me, my passion for the Disney Company grew largely from two other products - The Disney Channel and Disney News/Magazine. As a child of the 80s, my parents were alarmed by television content of the time and only allowed my siblings and I to watch TDC. And, since my father worked for the state government, we had a free membership to the Magic Kingdom Club and received Disney News.

Therefore, my upbringing formed me into a fan of Disney history, animation, films, and nostalgia (a very real and tangible product of the Disney Company, part of Walt's genius). So, after calming down from my initial disappointment over the $75 price for what is perceived to be very little, I spent yesterday pouring over everything on the D23 website and watching Wednesday's The View segments with Iger and Lasseter. I only wanted to see what was offered, and I ended up reading every article on the site! Needless to say, I was hooked! It seems that after years of frustration that Disney was prostituting its heritage for the quick buck with its current incarnation of The Disney Channel and the last few advertisement-laden issues of Disney Magazine before shutting it down, there are a few people in the Company that "get it" and at least want to offer "it" again.

While I want everything the podcast crew wants in a customer-reward program (especially as a passholder), I am at least grateful for the content that has been given, keeping in mind that all of that content is free!

 

[tmli]

I have avoided responding to all threads on this subject because I think many are over the top!!

We joined, and we are the dumb canadians that even paid an extra $50 for shipping on top of the membership fee! I didn't have really high expectations for what the whole thing would be, therefore probably don't feel as disappointed as some. Do I wish it was a loyalty progran, sure I do. Would I have done things differently if I was in charge -- possibly.

What I am pretty sure about is that Disney didn't set out to anger and annoy its loyal fans. I think they tried, missed the mark a little perhaps, but at least they are thinking of us.

Much of the outrage and venom I have seen spewed here over the last couple days is unbelieveable to me. I truly agree with much of what Pete said in his thoughts on the subject.

If you don't want to join don't, however I assure you those of us who did join are not stupid morons for doing so!!

 

[Commando2319]

Much of the outrage and venom I have seen spewed here over the last couple days is unbelieveable to me. I truly agree with much of what Pete said in his thoughts on the subject.

I think most of the outrage from people is not at the program itself. But the completely botched roll out.

The marketing campaign built up hype without giving any clues as to what it was. So people 1. got excited and 2. let their imagination run wild on what is was. Naturally, we all thought up much better ideas that what is actually turned out to be.

And the counter that went to negative numbers without telling you anything. And the lack of emails sent just made people angry.

If they had instead, just turned on the D23 site one day and started selling it. Most people would react with a "oh, what's this." or "eh" reaction. Few people would be angry.

Disney cause this reaction through their horrible marketing.

 

[WaltD4Me]

After giving it alot of thought, I find I agree with alot of what Ludwig said.

I think 3 years ago when D23 was concieved it was never intended to be a loyalty program....and yes, I most definitely agree that Disney should have a loyalty program for Disney travelers and while I most DEFINITELY agree 110% with everything Pete said on the podcast about how Disney needs a loyalty plan and it's shameful that they don't....D23 was never supposed to be that.

Not the best analogy by any means, but it reminds me a little, on a much smaller scale, of a book I bought once for a vacation. I like light beach book reading for vacations, something frivilous and fun, I somehow, I bought a book that was SO not that. I said it was a horrible book, but went back and read it again like 2 years later and decided it wasn't horrible, it was a good book, it just wasn't what I wanting or or expecting at the time and my disappointment colored my perception of the book.

If I seperate D23 from thinking of it as a loyalty program, with discounts and points, I'm still not thrilled with it, but am not as disappointed either. I think Disney REALLY botched the roll out of D23.
The "mystery" around what D23 was going to be was a BIG mistake. Allowing fans to speculate for months about what it was only encouraged the loyalty program idea and made it much worse when we found it that wasn't what it is at all. I also think the $75 membership fee is very out of touch. 3 years ago I suspect there would have been much less outrage, but now? Disney should have taken a look at the economy and made adjustments.

I think the CONCEPT of D23 is great. I am a park fan AND a Disney history fan. Like John, I would gladly hand over $75, probably more, to get into that Disney warehouse of treasures, I would travel to just about anywhere Disney might build a really good Disney museum and I'm talking Disney Smithsonean here and I even wondering if there is any possible way I could manage to go the Expo, but I also think D23 could and should offer so much more. Maybe it will, but in 3 years of planning it should have come out offering more.

I wonder how people would feel about D23 if there was already a decent loyalty program in place. I think there still would have been anger at the $75 membership fee, but no where NEAR to the degree that there is now.

Disney definitely botched this, but I have to stick up for Marty Sklar a little bit here and say that in the beginning, the idea and concept was a good one and may have done well or at least better, if we hadn't been allowed to imagine that it was going to be completely something else. The silver lining may be though that Disney may just HEAR it's fans now and actually come out with a loyalty program...not as part of D23, but seperate from it...wouldn't that be nice? And about darn time!

 

[WebmasterJohn]

If you don't want to join don't, however I assure you those of us who did join are not stupid morons for doing so!!

I certainly don't feel that anyone who joins is stupid and I'm sorry if that's what you got from the back-and-forth on this subject or the podcast.

There will be people who will think this great and who will sign-up for it - that is awesome. There are some who will sign-up out of curiosity in the hopes it will improve - again, good for them.

As far as those not signing up for it I think that is just a personal choice and in no way intended to make those who do sign-up for it feel less intelligent.

I realize the debates got heated but keep in mind it is all opinion and at the end of the day it's your own opinion that matters because it's your life and your money.

My interpretation is that people who do not like the program were hoping for something else. I think Disney created hype that they couldn't deliver on and that resulted in great discussion. And I do mean great - it was lively, it was intelligent and it allowed people a chance to discuss their points of view.

Now I have to go set-up the the J65 website............(J=John, 65=year I was born...let the rumors begin!!)

 

[wilde_oscar]

hm, I guess I am missing it... would anyone who has joined d23 chime in on the community? is there a posting board for fans to connect?

 

[LudwigVB]

Now I have to go set-up the the J65 website............(J=John, 65=year I was born...let the rumors begin!!)

Coming from the co-owner of a company that DOES get its clientele and hits homeruns every opportunity it has to thank its customers, I do not need to wait to say

I AM J65!

 

[jeanigor]

Now I have to go set-up the the J65 website............(J=John, 65=year I was born...let the rumors begin!!)

I AM J65!

Binjo!

 

[bellaDisneydncr]

I have avoided responding to all threads on this subject because I think many are over the top!!

What I am pretty sure about is that Disney didn't set out to anger and annoy its loyal fans. I think they tried, missed the mark a little perhaps, but at least they are thinking of us.

Much of the outrage and venom I have seen spewed here over the last couple days is unbelieveable to me.

I think the CONCEPT of D23 is great. I am a park fan AND a Disney history fan. Like John, I would gladly hand over $75, probably more, to get into that Disney warehouse of treasures, I would travel to just about anywhere Disney might build a really good Disney museum and I'm talking Disney Smithsonean here and I even wondering if there is any possible way I could manage to go the Expo, but I also think D23 could and should offer so much more. Maybe it will, but in 3 years of planning it should have come out offering more.

I am so glad to finally see this different opinion on here. I - like tmli - avoided the podcast page for a couple days because I got so upset and annoyed at the negativity on here. I joined the first day. I was very excited about this and couldn't wait to join. Yes- I believe $75 is a lot. But I had planned on buying all the magazines which are $15 a piece (x4) that makes $60. Why not pay a little more and get some extras.

And like WaltD4Me- I think that they needed to come out with more. Now none of us know whether or not they will come out with more- so I'm going to wait and see. I'm a D23 Charter Member and I'm proud of it!

If you don't want to join don't, however I assure you those of us who did join are not stupid morons for doing so!!

I do agree, however, with what Pete said about overlooking the people who go back time after time to the parks. We need more recognition.

 

[aspen37]

I think most of the outrage from people is not at the program itself. But the completely botched roll out.

The marketing campaign built up hype without giving any clues as to what it was. So people 1. got excited and 2. let their imagination run wild on what is was. Naturally, we all thought up much better ideas that what is actually turned out to be.

And the counter that went to negative numbers without telling you anything. And the lack of emails sent just made people angry.

If they had instead, just turned on the D23 site one day and started selling it. Most people would react with a "oh, what's this." or "eh" reaction. Few people would be angry.

Disney cause this reaction through their horrible marketing.

Well said!

 

[doconeill]

I agree that D23 is not a "loyalty program". It would be great if it was, but its not.

Iger says it's a way for the hard core fans to stay connected to Disney behind the scenes. Sure, there are ways to get that information through other channels.

But in reality, right now, it is a FAN CLUB. And its not much different than any other fan club where you pay a membership fee. In this case, the fee is higher than most (but not by much), and the "magazine" (which may be a disservice to call it that from reports) is much higher quality than a photocopied newsletter that most put out. But all the earmarks of a fan club are there - a membership fee, for which you receive a quarterly publication, a membership card, a "gift", and the rights to spend more money on semi-exclusive merch. And occasional special features like a fan gathering (expo), etc.

That's what it is at the moment at least.

And as I've said in other threads, I've signed up. But I'm placing a bet. The bet is that Disney WILL come through at some level. If I'm wrong, I lost $75 and will not renew. If I'm right - well, I'm still out $75, but I'll feel better about it.

 

[GIR-Prototype]

I'm glad it's NOT a loyalty program.

Let me explain why.

The level of Disney fan that you are is independent of how many times a year you go to a Disney property. Granted that the parks are an amazing experience, they are not all that Disney offers.

You have people who get to go once a year, people who haven't been since they were small children (and I'm one of those, a lucky one who got to go to WDW last year, and will go again this year), and people who dream of getting to go to a Disney park just ONCE in their lifetime.

Then you also have people whose blood should be DISboard green, and who are going to go any way they can, every chance they can get..

A loyalty program based on visits is only going to benefit a very small portion of overall park attendees. And if you base it on how much you spend on and/or at Disney, then you skew the system a different way, in the sense that the program would only be of benefit to people who either have money to burn, or a willingness to credit card themselves into massive debt. Those are people who are going to spend money anyway, not caring about getting something back.

And you're still not offering much benefit to any great portion of the millions upon millions of people who pass through Disney park gates around the world.

Which leads to the most important point; all that considered, why should Disney realistically offer a loyalty program...what is it going to do for them in return if it only benefits a small portion of their park attendees?

I think D23 is exactly what it needs to be.

 

[DisneyKevin]

A loyalty program based on visits is only going to benefit a very small portion of overall park attendees.

This is the very definition of a loyalty program.

If you fly a certain airline repeatedly, they reward you with a free flight.

If you buy six ice cream comes at Baskin Robbins, they give you your seventh one for free.

If you gamble in Las Vegas and return to the same casino, you earn loyalty points for free nights, free shows and free meals.

If you shop at Casual Male Big and Tall and spend $250, they send you a gift card for $10.

If you buy vitamins at Vitamin World, once you reach a certain amount spent, you pay the lower discount price.

It's a way of showing appreciation to your most loyal (or highest affinity) group.

 

[doconeill]

This is the very definition of a loyalty program.

If you fly a certain airline repeatedly, they reward you with a free flight.

If you buy six ice cream comes at Baskin Robbins, they give you your seventh one for free.

If you gamble in Las Vegas and return to the same casino, you earn loyalty points for free nights, free shows and free meals.

If you shop at Casual Male Big and Tall and spend $250, they send you a gift card for $10.

If you buy vitamins at Vitamin World, once you reach a certain amount spent, you pay the lower discount price.

It's a way of showing appreciation to your most loyal (or highest affinity) group.

But my argument is this is NOT a loyalty program nor is it meant to be - it is a FAN program (i.e. Fan Club). I can be a hard-core fan but NOT be able to attend each and every event that goes on. I'm lucky to get two trips a year (mainly because we purchased DVC), but after June it will be over a year before the next trip. Trust me, I'd LOVE to be able go down just any time. But I'm not one of those people who can afford that.

Should I not be allowed to take part then?

I think a loyalty program would be great, whether it benefits me or not. This ain't it, so I think that complaining that it is a horrible loyalty program is like complaining that a Hummer isn't a green car.

 

[DisneyKevin]

Should I not be allowed to take part then?

I wasnt suggesting that D23 is a loyalty program. I was explaining that loyalty programs are usually for the people that have loyalty to a certain product / service etc.

You are welcome to take part in any loyalty program in which you wish to participate or from which you you feel you would derive benefit.

But this begs the question....should there not be a frequent flier program because some folks wont / cant fly?

 

[cchev]

Disney has done a great job with giving people breaks in this economy....ex paying for 4 nights and getting 7 nights. They give money back for dining. They upped their contribution to the military. They offer a reasonable seasonal pass. Dining has become a lot more affordable with the dining plan. Not to mention magical express.

This is obviously not a "loyalty" program so don't look it as such. They have done a lot to help people in this economy while continuing their charity works, including Give Kids the World.

I don't understand what I see as almost a hate against Disney for this. People have been saying "I'm glad I'm not going this year" and even Kevin I believe you said something disparaging about the people who you see wearing the D23 shirts. I don't mind if people don't like it but Disney is good in helping people afford vacations. Just because one program they're doing doesn't have a goal of saving you money doesn't change that.

 

[cchev]

I wasnt suggesting that D23 is a loyalty program. I was explaining that loyalty programs are usually for the people that have loyalty to a certain product / service etc.

You are welcome to take part in any loyalty program in which you wish to participate or from which you you feel you would derive benefit.

But this begs the question....should there not be a frequent flier program because some folks wont / cant fly?

It's a different business model though. I still argue that the seasonal pass IS a loyalty program itself. The more you go the more you save...both you AND Disney benefit. This is similar to the free coffee program but in reverse...
And trust me if airlines had a loyalty program where I could fly for as many times a year if I want for the cost of 2 flights I would jump at that MUCH quicker than their current programs....but they don't offer it.

 

[doconeill]

But this begs the question....should there not be a frequent flier program because some folks wont / cant fly?

I DID say that a loyalty program would be great, whether I could participate or not. But not solely catering to one class of people is great too.

I just feel that D23 got more heat than it deserved because it wasn't want people thought they were getting. Perhaps Disney built up far too much expectation with the campaign (and then blew the unveiling big time...I never got an email). And sure, they could do more. But D23 is basically what they said it is.

 

[DisneyKevin]

Disney has done a great job with giving people breaks in this economy....ex paying for 4 nights and getting 7 nights. They give money back for dining. They upped their contribution to the military. They offer a reasonable seasonal pass. Dining has become a lot more affordable with the dining plan.

This is obviously not a "loyalty" program so don't look it as such. They have done a lot to help people in this economy while continuing their charity works, including Give Kids the World.

I don't understand what I see as almost a hate against Disney for this. People have been saying "I'm glad I'm not going this year" and ever Kevin I believe you said something disparaging about the people who you see wearing the D23 shirts. I don't mind if people don't like it but Disney is good in helping people afford vacations. Just because one program they're doing doesn't have a goal of saving you money doesn't change that.

Disney is running the promotions you list because they are hurting...not out of the goodness of their hearts.

The buy 4 get 3 free promo is not some humanitarian effort. It's a way to fill empty hotels.

As for giving money back by offering the dining plan....well....the dining plan keeps people on Disney property and not spending money elsewhere, so again, I'm sorry but I dont view it the same way you do.

As for the military and GKTW.....thats awesome. Disney is a very charitable organization, but thats beside the point and not germain to this discussion at all.

You do not need to campaign for me to love Disney. I moved 1200 miles to be closer to Disney. My job revolves around Disney. I live 15 miles away from Disney. I'm an annual passholder. We own DVC. Trust me....I love Disney.

It's THIS particular "fan club" that I think is an enormous and disappointing failure.

And as for Disney being good at helping people afford vacations....that is their job. They sell vacations They are one of the top vacation destinations in the world. They NEED to help people take vacations or this limb of the business withers.

 

[wilde_oscar]

a couple things i have missed, or in some cases chose to not understand...

What is the debate about a loyalty program, and where is that coming from? I realize that Disney doesn't have one, and probably should... but D23 seems more like a marketing gimmik for exclusive goods. The website in and of itself seems to be completely accessible with or with out a membership (cept for the shopping). As with all things, if you don't think it is worth it, don;t buy it. I don't think it is worth it. But I don't think it is evil. I also don't think it will get better, I remember an entertainment card that disney put out with a magazine, but you got travel discounts with it. that was kinda worth it. then they discontinued it with no fan fare, just never let any one renew.

does there really need to be a heated debate on this?