$95 fee and MS comments

[Donna]

Your exact comment, which was quoted in my reply was:

"well then maybe the dvc guides/salespeople should not have pushed this as a flexible option to prospective new members, only to pull the rug out from under them. "

Sounds to me like you are holding the salespeople responsible on some level.

I only ask that you do not put words in my mouth. where did i say they (meaning guides) MADE the policy? they were selling what they were told to sell, which made it SEEM dvc was flexible for all disney resorts. I bought DVC over 10 years ago, i've seen benefits come and go; maybe you are a more recent member and this isn't what you were told?

 

[tjkraz]

I only ask that you do not put words in my mouth. where did i say they (meaning guides) MADE the policy? they were selling what they were told to sell, which made it SEEM dvc was flexible for all disney resorts.

The words are your own. You specifically stated that the Guides "should not have pushed this as a flexible option" and later "pull[ed] the rug out from under them."

Those statements clearly assign blame to the front-line salespeople for what is a DVC policy decision.

You appear to be back-peddling on your original position now, which is fine. Perhaps it was simply a poorly-worded comment.

I bought DVC over 10 years ago, i've seen benefits come and go; maybe ou are a more recent member and this isn't what you were told?

Don't really see what that has to do with anything. Nowhere in my posts did I even comment on the appropriateness of the move.

 

[CarolAnnC]

Ok, enough fighting. Please take personal back and forth arguing to email or PM as it is not allowed on the boards here.

This has been an interesting thread and I would hate to see it locked down. Let's get back to discussing the $95 fee and please please please refrain from arguing.

Thank you very much.

 

[psu4glory]

this has been a good thread w/lots of good points on both sides of the 'argument'....but i have to say that i'm personally falling on the side of not liking this move. i understand that DVC never guaranteed the right to reserve non-DVC disney resorts @ no cost - and i did not buy in with the expectations of ever doing so. i have not made a reservation for a non-DVC resort to this point, and have no plans to (especially now ) but here's what's rubbing me the wrong way...

the best arguments in defense of this new policy is that it helps to contribute to DVC's bottom line - or at least helps to offset the cost of new and improved infrastructure (?). i guess i don't have a problem with that. but - as with the most recent changes to the DDP that set off an explosion of negative vibes (and i know that decisions regarding the DDP have nothing to do with DVC - i'm simply lumping all disney management and recent major policy changes into one bucket for purposes of discussion) - this doesn't seem like it was thoroughly thought out before it was announced. for instance - even many who are defending this move by DVC on the DIS boards have offered up that $95/transaction seems steep for what DVC is claiming they need the money for (the cost of the additional phone calls / overhead to make the exchange). why $95? why not $25? $50? something a little less offensive and more readily accepted than nearly $100? this is similar to disney's decision to adjust the dining plan...why not provide the customer the OPTION to choose EITHER an appetizer or a dessert w/their meal? the result would be the same (or similar enough), while the change would be less abrasive to the paying public.

'perception is reality'...and the perception is that disney is considering the guest less and less these days. i know the point has been made that those that post on the DIS boards make up a small % of total DVC ownership - yet alone disney guests...but do we really think that we're the only ones noticing these changes? others are taking note as well - how can you not with the annual ticket price and CRO room rate increases? not only is the perception (among some) that the value of DVC is going down - but on a larger scale, that the value of a family vacation at WDW is decreasing. people may continue to pay for the magic...but if disney keeps pushing the envelope to widen its profit margin - they risk it coming back to bite them somewhere down the road...

 

[PinkTink63]

this has been a good thread w/lots of good points on both sides of the 'argument'....but i have to say that i'm personally falling on the side of not liking this move. i understand that DVC never guaranteed the right to reserve non-DVC disney resorts @ no cost - and i did not buy in with the expectations of ever doing so. i have not made a reservation for a non-DVC resort to this point, and have no plans to (especially now ) but here's what's rubbing me the wrong way...

the best arguments in defense of this new policy is that it helps to contribute to DVC's bottom line - or at least helps to offset the cost of new and improved infrastructure (?). i guess i don't have a problem with that. but - as with the most recent changes to the DDP that set off an explosion of negative vibes (and i know that decisions regarding the DDP have nothing to do with DVC - i'm simply lumping all disney management and recent major policy changes into one bucket for purposes of discussion) - this doesn't seem like it was thoroughly thought out before it was announced. for instance - even many who are defending this move by DVC on the DIS boards have offered up that $95/transaction seems steep for what DVC is claiming they need the money for (the cost of the additional phone calls / overhead to make the exchange). why $95? why not $25? $50? something a little less offensive and more readily accepted than nearly $100? this is similar to disney's decision to adjust the dining plan...why not provide the customer the OPTION to choose EITHER an appetizer or a dessert w/their meal? the result would be the same (or similar enough), while the change would be less abrasive to the paying public.

'perception is reality'...and the perception is that disney is considering the guest less and less these days. i know the point has been made that those that post on the DIS boards make up a small % of total DVC ownership - yet alone disney guests...but do we really think that we're the only ones noticing these changes? others are taking note as well - how can you not with the annual ticket price and CRO room rate increases? not only is the perception (among some) that the value of DVC is going down - but on a larger scale, that the value of a family vacation at WDW is decreasing. people may continue to pay for the magic...but if disney keeps pushing the envelope to widen its profit margin - they risk it coming back to bite them somewhere down the road...

I agree with you completely! As if Disney is not making enough profit without these fees and price increases! I didn't buy DVC planning to stay at non-DVC, but like others have mentioned, if I needed an extra day and DVC wasn't available, that makes it quite expensive!
I guess what bugs me the most and it is not only with Disney, is the cost of everything has gone up so much in the last five years, but my wages are not going up at the same rate! The little raise I did receive, has not off-set the cost of living increases!

 

[Anjelica]

While I don't like the idea of paying a fee (who does) I think I am less inclined to be upset over this particular issue ONLY because DVC will/is at AKL. That resort is my husbands favorite resort and although we bought DVC WL we liked the idea of the occasional visit to AKL on points. Now that DVC is at AKL we plan on purchasing points there so in all likelihood we won't ever (or very very seldom) stay at other resorts on points.

 

[Magix]

Interesting... I just went to a DVC presentation this past weekend at DLR and they only told us that there'd be a fee of $75 or $95 when booking certain non-Disney resorts (like Hotel del Coronado in San Diego). They never once mentioned that there was a fee for booking non-DVC Disney Resorts. Seems they'd want to be up-front about this sort of thing. Not the kind of sales pitch I would have expected from Disney.

 

[Donna]

this has been a good thread w/lots of good points on both sides of the 'argument'....but i have to say that i'm personally falling on the side of not liking this move. i understand that DVC never guaranteed the right to reserve non-DVC disney resorts @ no cost - and i did not buy in with the expectations of ever doing so. i have not made a reservation for a non-DVC resort to this point, and have no plans to (especially now ) but here's what's rubbing me the wrong way...

the best arguments in defense of this new policy is that it helps to contribute to DVC's bottom line - or at least helps to offset the cost of new and improved infrastructure (?). i guess i don't have a problem with that. but - as with the most recent changes to the DDP that set off an explosion of negative vibes (and i know that decisions regarding the DDP have nothing to do with DVC - i'm simply lumping all disney management and recent major policy changes into one bucket for purposes of discussion) - this doesn't seem like it was thoroughly thought out before it was announced. for instance - even many who are defending this move by DVC on the DIS boards have offered up that $95/transaction seems steep for what DVC is claiming they need the money for (the cost of the additional phone calls / overhead to make the exchange). why $95? why not $25? $50? something a little less offensive and more readily accepted than nearly $100? this is similar to disney's decision to adjust the dining plan...why not provide the customer the OPTION to choose EITHER an appetizer or a dessert w/their meal? the result would be the same (or similar enough), while the change would be less abrasive to the paying public.

'perception is reality'...and the perception is that disney is considering the guest less and less these days. i know the point has been made that those that post on the DIS boards make up a small % of total DVC ownership - yet alone disney guests...but do we really think that we're the only ones noticing these changes? others are taking note as well - how can you not with the annual ticket price and CRO room rate increases? not only is the perception (among some) that the value of DVC is going down - but on a larger scale, that the value of a family vacation at WDW is decreasing. people may continue to pay for the magic...but if disney keeps pushing the envelope to widen its profit margin - they risk it coming back to bite them somewhere down the road...

This post pretty much says it all. It seems like the old-time members have a handle on why the sudden fee-change/charge for disney-owned resorts is upsetting. I'm happy to see someone who understands the overall possible impact! I have a feeling it will come up in the meeting next month.

 

[byoung]

I know a lot of people read Jim Lewis' explanation of "simplification" with blood in their eye, but this change does simplify my planning a little.

Before, I would occasionally look at staying at the Poly or GF, but decide against it because of the exhorbitant points costs. Now, with high points costs plus $95, my life is greatly simplified -- the thought won't even cross my mind!

This change and the changes in DDP are actually going to work to my family's advantage. We'll eat almost all our meals offsite, and if we want to extend a trip beyond Sun-Thurs, we'll just get a place over by Universal. No problem.

Simplification -- it's a beautiful thing!

I agree, I use my AP discounts staying at the other resorts. Saves a lot more.

 

[SleepyatDVC]

I have only used DVC points to stay at the BC once in November 2001 (before the BCV was built). It was to use up DVC points that were going to expire 11/30/01.

We were going to stay at a DVC resort at the end of September 2001 but cancelled that trip when September 11th occurred. However, we still had to use up those points before the end of our use year of December. Thus, the last minute trip in November.

I can't remember WHY we booked a NON-DVC resort since I would imagine the DVC resorts probably had lots of vacancies. But since it was a long weekend and we wanted to be in walking distance to a park, I think it was because there was limited BWV availability so we chose to blow all those points at BC instead.

We don't really expect to use our points at non-DVC resorts since it is not the best use of points. So, in reality the $95 is not the end of the world and we might never have to pay it.

However, in cases of expiring points and points in holding and NO availabilty at any of the DVC resorts during the time period before expiration, it was really nice to have that option as a back up to be able to use up those points at a non-DVC resort with no additional OUT-OF-POCKET costs, just the higher points per night costs.

It was also gave us a "peace of mind" feeling to know that if we couldn't get that last night at a DVC resort, we could always use our points to stay on WDW property without paying anymore cash.

So, while we may never have to pay $95 to use our points in the future. It was really nice to have that no additional CASH cost to have that future option in case we ever had a sold out DVC resort scenerio and we had to use up the DVC points or to supplement a missing night.

It may work out better to let those few points expire now and pay cash for the non-DVC resort. But you know how expiring points make a DVC member feel!!!!!!!!!!

 

[RLCarmichael]

I called in to complain about the charge and send an email to the member services team.

Effective 1/1/08 they are planning on a $95 fee for all reservations and changes for anything other than a non-DVC resort, including the WDW hotels & resorts. It doesn't matter if it's a one day stay or a hundred days. Same $95 charge. Make a change outside DVC, an additional $95.

Strikes me as down right un-neighborly, and really kills a major perk of DVC - flexability to split your vaction up and stay different places. Plus, as often as not, I haven't been able to find the accomodations at DVC resorts on the days I have available. (I'm not one to plan 12 months ahead but then again it's all about flexability to me.)

Considering the $$$ we have spent to buy into DVC, with the promise of flexability, and all the money we spend above and beyond annual dues (passes, food, merchandise, etc.) this really stinks.

I have sent an email to member services to express my opinion, and suggest you do the same. If they hear from enough of us they many not change but they know we are watching what they do.

DVCmembersatisfactionteam@disneyvacationclub.com

Using a timeshare exchange service like CRI or II, you are paying a 3rd party to make the exchange. When you book outside Disney collection, that's what you are doing, and I don't have a problem with that. I DO have a problem within the Disney collection. We were sold on flexability, and they have made that option MUCH less desirable.

I may even sell my DVC. While it's a good deal if you stay at DVC resorts, it is much less so if you take short trips like I do and end up staying at non DVC resorts.

They way they tried to "sell" it to me was that II charges a transfer free. But II (and also RCI) are a third party making the exchange possible, and the fee covers a full week.

RCI also has a points based system and charges as little as $29. And keep in mind that they are a 3rd party company.

We are ALREADY paying a PREMIUM to stay non-DVC. If DVC is going to charge a transfer fee to stay in a hotel room, then the points per night should be about equal to the cost for a studio. I wouldn't mind so much if the points charge was equal with a small per night charge.

Disney is Disney. Yeah I know there are different companies within Disney and DVC is one of them but it's STILL just Disney.

 

[Mouseaholic!!!]

....by the way.....

ABC Castmembers do all their castmember-reservations online......quick and easy!

Disney can make it easy if they want to.

Perhaps they are beginning to nickle and dime DVC like they do non-DVC guests.

 

[fatcat04]

The fee according to MS is being implemented to "streamline backroom operations" which will shorten phone line wait times. She said when you call to make a reservation at a non-DVC place, MS castmembers have to go into 5 separate systems and make a minimum of 3 phone calls to make that reservation all while we're on hold, blocking phone lines. She stated that if they collect enough of $95 fees then they can upgrade their computer systems streamlining the process resulting in us seeing shorter hold times and better service.

DVC stated they've had a lot of complaints about this....I imagine they have!

I don't know about any of you, but that doesn't wash with me.

The proof is in the pudding. If they are telling the truth, then after the upgrades have taken place, the $95 fee should return to previous levels which I assume was little to nothing. Anyone started a betting pool for that possibility??

 

[dznymom1]

The proof is in the pudding. If they are telling the truth, then after the upgrades have taken place, the $95 fee should return to previous levels which I assume was little to nothing. Anyone started a betting pool for that possibility??

Well, since there is apparently going to be a huge selling of contracts according to this thread, as well as no one ever actually paying that 'exhorbitant' $95 fee, it looks like it will take quite some time!

For what it's worth, I am a long time member and I am perfectly fine with the fee. I much prefer that the people using the service pay for the service, and if and when I choose to trade out to a non-DVC Disney resort, the fee will factor in to my decision. It certainly will stop many people from booking the odd night at a moderate or on a cement slab, and that will free up Member Services for the rest of us. I definitely don't see this as de-valuing my membership.

 

[323sarg]

This is totally off the map from what we joined for. The whole purpose was to expand your options at WDW. Since we have joined we have been nickled and dimed at every corner and now this. Granted we in THEORY could only be allowed to stay at our home resorts but that would kill the DVC. Its gotten to the point (and I have crunched some numbers) financially you might make out better staying without DVC. (based on if you finance) I have also noticed the perks are not as nice or not as valuable as portrayed. If this $95 fee sticks, we are gone!!!

 

[Doctor P]

This is totally off the map from what we joined for. The whole purpose was to expand your options at WDW. Since we have joined we have been nickled and dimed at every corner and now this. Granted we in THEORY could only be allowed to stay at our home resorts but that would kill the DVC. Its gotten to the point (and I have crunched some numbers) financially you might make out better staying without DVC. (based on if you finance) I have also noticed the perks are not as nice or not as valuable as portrayed. If this $95 fee sticks, we are gone!!!

Wow. I am shocked at the number of people who apparently joined DVC to stay at non-DVC resorts. Without paying the $95 fee, one has six options at WDW plus two off-site options. That's not too bad in my book. In addition, the $95 fee is a fixed fee regardless of the number of nights reserved. I'm sorry you and the others are so disappointed.

 

[dvc-NE]

Wow. I am shocked at the number of people who apparently joined DVC to stay at non-DVC resorts. Without paying the $95 fee, one has six options at WDW plus two off-site options. That's not too bad in my book. In addition, the $95 fee is a fixed fee regardless of the number of nights reserved. I'm sorry you and the others are so disappointed.

I highly doubt that anybody joins DVC with the intent of using it to stay solely at non-DVC resorts. Most realize early on that it is not the best use of points, similar to buying into DVC only to use World Passport. But often enough, people change plans for various reasons. One time I booked The Sagamore (Concierge Collection) then afterwards my wife did not want to go there because it was 180 pts for 3 nights just for the room. She deemed that to be too expensive point wise, so let's go to WDW instead. Well, you can not use reservation points to book a DVC resort, so we opted for Yacht Club, since we like the Epcot Resort Area. Since I already lost $95 to book The Sagamore, I would have hated to pay that again to stay at Disney. Another time, we needed to add a night to a BCV stay, so we used the YC then as well. Booking a DVC resort is very difficult to book inside of 2 months, and impossible if trying to use reservation points. So, even if you want a DVC resort, it may not always be possible.

 

[angelmav]

Let me give a point of view from a prospective DVC'er, The literature, sales and promotional materials we have been given to peruse really play up the aspect of staying/trips to non-DVC resorts/destinations. This is an expensive, EXPENSIVE time share. We would never look at paying 20-25 grand for a regular timeshare, that would be insanity! So even though the good Dr. seems to think that idea is shocking, those looking to prepay for 50 years of vacations want to feel there is some flexibility to forking out that kind of money. Its certainly been presented to us that way.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Let me give a point of view from a prospective DVC'er, The literature, sales and promotional materials we have been given to peruse really play up the aspect of staying/trips to non-DVC resorts/destinations. This is an expensive, EXPENSIVE time share. We would never look at paying 20-25 grand for a regular timeshare, that would be insanity! So even though the good Dr. seems to think that idea is shocking, those looking to prepay for 50 years of vacations want to feel there is some flexibility to forking out that kind of money. Its certainly been presented to us that way.

I certainly agree with you. We went to the sales pitch at SSR and that was mentioned several times during the presentation. The flexibity of other resorts was a draw for us. I sure hope we will be able to continue to take advantage of that choice....I already have a Hawaii search in for 2009.

 

[323sarg]

From what I have read, a vast majority joined the DVCfor the flexability. To stay when and where you liked. By limiting where members can stay, they are infringing on that aspect. I think then maybe they should levelize the points. Just like it takes 160 points to book anything I beleive its the World Passport Collection (don't quoute me on that).