75 employees laid off at Pixar, including the director of Lightyear

[PolymerSkywalker]

You always harp on "the original creator" as some kind of bullet-proof thing. Suppose, the original creator, George Lucas, had been involved in the Star Wars sequels? Would fans have liked them? They sure didn't like the Prequels. That's the thing - it's NOT absolute and you are always speaking in absolutes.

100%, I do think the sequels would have been better received by the Star Wars fandom if George had given them his blessings. I also feel like Luke would not have been deconstructed like he was with Geoge guiding the films. What few interviews that have involved George in recent times, you can clearly see he didn't care for Disney's direction at all.

I think the movies likely would have made about the same amount of money, maybe a little more. But the divisiveness of episode 8 would have been dialed way back. George would have taken so much more care in the way he ended his legacy characters and passed the torch to the new generation. That is just my opinion, but that opinion is based on what I have heard both Mark Hamill and George Lucas say on the topic. I could certainly be wrong about this, and I guess we will never know.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Again, I say something and you respond with a completely dif thing. I'm not moving any goalposts. You seem to be intent on predicting doom for all. And then you get defensive when ppl disagree with your opinions.

So that's a no on taking the bet?

Yes, Disney has hit a pretty rough patch where hardly any of their movies in 2023 are making money. I wish the news was better, but Guardians may be their only profitable film of the year. Ant Man may have broken even, but just barely. The only thing I know in their pipeline that will for sure make money is Toy Story 5. I am sure Marvel will eventually have another hit, but I am not yet sure which one that will turn out to be. Deadpool 3 would be my guess.

I do think the new Pixar one about aliens has some potential, but I need to know a little more about that one to know for sure.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

duplicate

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

It will, but I think more apt comparisons will be to MCU movies that came out this year. CM was pre-pandemic and we know how that just messed everything up. Thing are recovering in the theater space, but it will still be hard to tell. I'd compare it to Guardians 3 and Ant-Man 3.

Why does the pandemic excuse work for some films, but others have incredible numbers? If the pandemic fundamentally changed all theaters for the worse, would there be any big hits in 2023. I guess I am struggling to understand how it can affect some films negatively, but other films can have really strong box office returns with great numbers for many weeks.

 

[BrianL]

Why does the pandemic excuse work for some films, but others have incredible numbers? If the pandemic fundamentally changed all theaters for the worse, would there be any big hits in 2023. I guess I am struggling to understand how it can affect some films negatively, but other films can have really strong box office returns with great numbers for many weeks.

Becasue different types of films operate differently. It's not all one bucket. Family movies are still a tougher sell due to the cost of bringing a family to the theaters. Certainly some movies have really popped, but the reasons for that are numerous. It's not just one thing - it's never just one thing. You want to oversimplify a very complex ecosystem. Timing is more than just pre or post pandemic - it can be the difference between being released in April vs. May.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

I never once said it was one thing dude. So your response is it's really complicated and only you are smart enough to understand it? You think I oversimplify things, and I certainly feel you overcomplicate things massively.

It is really simple for Disney to return to making profitable movies:
- Focus on the story first and foremost, telling a great story must return to to being the top priority
- Second after story, is get your darn production budgets under control!
- Listen to the fans with focus groups and such, give the fans what they want, and they have proven they will show up
- Stop delving into any form of intersectional dynamics, it is a losing game.......don't play it!
- Turn to some Nostalgia to have a few hits and give you room to breath for more creative endeavors
- Return as a company to being neutral politically, and make family friendly entertainment all families are comfortable with their children watching

So Mario an animated movie released this summer was not affected by the post pandemic box office, but Elemental was affected just a few weeks later. So is the nostalgia of Mario enough to break the pandemic curse?

 

[BrianL]

I never once said it was one thing dude. So your response is it's really complicated and only you are smart enough to understand it? You think I oversimplify things, and I certainly feel you overcomplicate things massively.

It is really simple for Disney to return to making profitable movies:
- Focus on the story first and foremost, telling a great story must return to to being the top priority
- Second after story, is get your darn production budgets under control!
- Listen to the fans with focus groups and such, give the fans what they want, and they have proven they will show up
- Stop delving into any form of intersectional dynamics, it is a losing game.......don't play it!
- Turn to some Nostalgia to have a few hits and give you room to breath for more creative endeavors
- Return as a company to being neutral politically, and make family friendly entertainment all families are comfortable with their children watching

You're the one that basically argues that since Top Gun was a mega-hit, so anything else could be - if only they were Top Gun. Top Gun is an abberation, not the other stuff. Exhibition is in the dumps, mostly because of the actions that studios have taken, but it's not jsut Disney. Lower returns are hitting all of the studios.

• A great story does not guarantee box-office success. Many movies with great stories fail, and many with lousy ones do very well - a great story is also subjective.
• Agreed on budgets - they are absolutely out of control!
• The "Fans" are a very small part of the puzzle. A movie needs more than just the fans to show up in order to make money. Focus groups are a thing and they are alwyas used.
• I don't believe that matters as much as some want to believe it does. I don't want to get into it, but art imitates life.
• Nostalgia is certainly what hits these days - then again, it's not a sure-thing either.
• Ehhh....

 

[starlite_]

So that's a no on taking the bet?

Yes, Disney has hit a pretty rough patch where hardly any of their movies in 2023 are making money. I wish the news was better, but Guardians may be their only profitable film of the year. Ant Man may have broken even, but just barely. The only thing I know in their pipeline that will for sure make money is Toy Story 5. I sure Marvel will eventually have another hit, but I am not yet sure which one that will turn out to be.

I do think the new Pixar one about aliens has some potential, but I need to know a little more about that one to know for sure.

Your argument keeps circling back to: movies that you, Mr Average Ideal Target Audience For Every Movie Ever, don't like for whatever reason are not profitable in a box office.

You keep bring up Top Gun and Mario like they are some original masterpieces which they aren't. Both are part of a franchise.

You keep insisting that a movie doing bad in opening week means it's a bad movie. Which is just dumb.

You keep saying things like "know this movie will make money". You don't, you don't know. You guess.

It is quite funny how at the end of the day you ended up saying the quiet part out loud tho. "Neutral political" Tells me all I need to know about your argument.

 

[BrianL]

Your argument keeps circling back to: movies that you, Mr Average Ideal Target Audience For Every Movie Ever, don't like for whatever reason are not profitable in a box office.

You keep bring up Top Gun and Mario like they are some original masterpieces which they aren't. Both are part of a franchise.

You keep insisting that a movie doing bad in opening week means it's a bad movie. Which is just dumb.

You keep saying things like "know this movie will make money". You don't, you don't know. You guess.

It is quite funny how at the end of the day you ended up saying the quiet part out loud tho. "Neutral political" Tells me all I need to know about your argument.

Yeah, it's getting pretty silly here.

 

[mdmost]

The top 10 of 2021, 2022, and through current 2023 are all sequels except one which is Free Guy in 2021 that came in 10th.

As far as original ideas and their place in the domestic box office and I'm excluding comic book movies:
2021- Free Guy #10th, Encanto- 15th
2022- Elvis- 12th, Uncharted-13th, Nope-14th, Smile-16th, The Lost City-17th, Bullet Train-18th, The Bad Guys-19th
2023-M3GAN-13th, Dungeons & Dragons-14th, Cocaine Bear-16th, A Man Called Otto-17th, Air-20th

So yes, we don't seem to really want original stories or studios just aren't making them because they know what is successful for them: sequels and nostaglia.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Your argument keeps circling back to: movies that you, Mr Average Ideal Target Audience For Every Movie Ever, don't like for whatever reason are not profitable in a box office.

You keep bring up Top Gun and Mario like they are some original masterpieces which they aren't. Both are part of a franchise.

You keep insisting that a movie doing bad in opening week means it's a bad movie. Which is just dumb.

You keep saying things like "know this movie will make money". You don't, you don't know. You guess.

It is quite funny how at the end of the day you ended up saying the quiet part out loud tho. "Neutral political" Tells me all I need to know about your argument.

I never one said I did not like Elemental. I said I did not think it had universal appeal enough to be a financial win at the box office. I actually kind of like the story and think it has some cool elements (no pun intended). However, I felt strongly it would never make back the massive production budget they spent on it.

I never once said Top Gun or Mario were original masterpieces. I said they gave the fans what they wanted, and they did. They also were massive commercial successes by the way.

Name one movie in the history of movies that did less than $30 million opening weekend, and went on to make the $600 million required for this film to make a profit at the box office? Just name one???

Yes, or course I guess based on all I read and understand about the movie and how it might do. My guesses have been pretty accurate so far, so I must guess pretty well.

And your comments tell me all I need to know about you as well. It is very obvious which way you lean politically, and this is only solidified by you loving every single thing your buddy Brian says. Politically neutral is smart for all companies imho, there is no reason to pick a fight with your potential customer.

So you still wont take my bet? You still dodging that question?

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

The top 10 of 2021, 2022, and through current 2023 are all sequels except one which is Free Guy in 2021 that came in 10th.

As far as original ideas and their place in the domestic box office and I'm excluding comic book movies:
2021- Free Guy #10th, Encanto- 15th
2022- Elvis- 12th, Uncharted-13th, Nope-14th, Smile-16th, The Lost City-17th, Bullet Train-18th, The Bad Guys-19th
2023-M3GAN-13th, Dungeons & Dragons-14th, Cocaine Bear-16th, A Man Called Otto-17th, Air-20th

So yes, we don't seem to really want original stories or studios just aren't making them because they know what is successful for them: sequels and nostaglia.

This crowd doesn't like facts, especially when facts don't align with their feelings.

Funny thing is facts don't care about anyone's feelings. The data simply is what the data is.

 

[mdmost]

This crowd doesn't like facts, especially when facts don't align with their feelings.

Funny thing is facts don't care about anyone's feelings. The data simply is what the data is.

You misunderstand my reason for posting that. It's more the sad state of where we are as moviegoers and why Disney will keep failing unless they put out sequels. We don't seem to want anything original any longer and that's a shame. I guess we have Apple+ and Netflix to fill that void now. So Pixar, the point of this thread, will also fail unless they just churn out sequels or have a massive overhaul in talent and storytelling that somehow breaks through.

 

[Scalemaster34]

Box Office has been tough on a number of films in the last year.... many of them Disney backed. But clearly based on some films (Avatar, Mario, Spiderman) people will go to the movies, when they want too.

But this thread started with Pixar laying off a number of folks... my guess is they will expand that now that Elemental is pretty much a flop as well.

Loved Inside Out, but not sure I want to go into the mind of a teenager....

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

You misunderstand my reason for posting that. It's more the sad state of where we are as moviegoers and why Disney will keep failing unless they put out sequels. We don't seem to want anything original any longer and that's a shame. I guess we have Apple+ and Netflix to fill that void now.

I am not 100% sure that is true, I still think the story is the most important thing. I do think a nostalgic hook seems to really help right now for some reason.

Did anyone even know we even wanted Stranger Things? It's has lots of 80s nostalgia, but it is a very unique and creative story line right?

What about Yellowstone, was anyone saying we need a new western series. Those haven't worked in a long time, but we have a hunch a western series is due to be a massive hit. No, the story was just great and captivated the audience.

Squid game with dubbed over english voices? What focus group was asking for that?

Ted Lasso, what a crazy idea that turned into a hit show.


Also in the case of Top Gun and Mario if the stories were crap and the visuals of the films were bad, would they still have killed it like they did in the box office? I don't think so, both had a good story line that audiences liked. Both films had fantastic word of mouth, with great legs at the box office due to great word of mouth. To further illustrate this Mario had a terrible movie several years ago that looked terrible and had a foolish story line, and it flopped hard. I think a compelling story is still the most important thing.

 

[mdmost]

I am not 100% sure that is true, I still think the story is the most important thing. I do think a nostalgic hook seems to really help right now for some reason.

Did anyone even know we even wanted Stranger Things? It's has lots of 80s nostalgia, but it is a very unique and creative story line right?

What about Yellowstone, was anyone saying we need a new western series. Those haven't worked in a long time, but we have a hunch a western series is due to be a massive hit. No, the story was just great and captivated the audience.

Squid game with dubbed over english voices? What focus group was asking for that?

Ted Lasso, what a crazy idea that turned into a hit show.

Those are all television shows which are always able to take more risks. We're talking movies here. Sadly TV seems to be the last holdout for original storytelling.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Those are all television shows which are always able to take more risks. We're talking movies here. Sadly TV seems to be the last holdout for original storytelling.

Yep, that's fair.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

I think Oppenheimer has some potential later this year as well as Killers of Flower Moon, don't know anything about budgets, but certainly the stories sound very interesting.

I also suspect The Hunger Games Prequel and Dune II will do well, but those are existing IPs. Both are based on incredible book series that are some of my favorite reads. Katnis is one of my favorite female hero's in modern literature, what a great and complex character.

 

[jade1]

We don't seem to want anything original any longer and that's a shame. I guess we have Apple+ and Netflix to fill that void now.

I agree with this.

Righteous Gemstones, Yellowstone, The Offer, Squid Game, Queens Gambit, Resident Alien, See, Game of Thrones, Ted Lasso, Mando, Stranger Things, Umbrella Academy, The Boys, Outer Banks The Last of Us. It just goes on.

Never had the "fill in" from streaming in between the next anticipated movie.

If they want Movie Theatre success-it needs to be pretty enticing.

 

[starlite_]

The top 10 of 2021, 2022, and through current 2023 are all sequels except one which is Free Guy in 2021 that came in 10th.

As far as original ideas and their place in the domestic box office and I'm excluding comic book movies:
2021- Free Guy #10th, Encanto- 15th
2022- Elvis- 12th, Uncharted-13th, Nope-14th, Smile-16th, The Lost City-17th, Bullet Train-18th, The Bad Guys-19th
2023-M3GAN-13th, Dungeons & Dragons-14th, Cocaine Bear-16th, A Man Called Otto-17th, Air-20th

So yes, we don't seem to really want original stories or studios just aren't making them because they know what is successful for them: sequels and nostaglia.

I'm not sure I would even count Uncharted or D&D tbh. Both are based on stablished franchises.