6th grader gets 0 for plagiarism rant long

[LukenDC]

This is way too harsh for sixth grade, especially if the teacher did not address the concept of plagiarism and teach proper citation methods. I doubt that elementary school children have a well-developed understanding of intellectual honesty/dishonesty.

I did not learn proper citation methods until 8 grade. Identifying what must be footnoted is a skill that takes practice and feedback to hone.

 

[gina2000]

I'm a bit confused so I'll ask a question.

Was this project supposed to be paraphrased using data provided by other sources?

If so, then cutting and pasting is clearly wrong. I don't think the teacher expected citations; he/she expected paraphrasing using data available from another source. What I've normally seen at this age is paraphrasing using other sources with bibliographies reflecting sources from which data was obtained, not citations. Since the teacher returned his paper looking for more information, I suspect he/she wanted more paraphrased information, not cut and pasted information.

I know that we discuss, emphasize and discuss again plagerism and our stance on it is firm. If we see plagerism, the student receives an F for the assignment.

If the situation is as I outlined, an F is warrented.

Just another random person's opinion on the subject.

 

[Piglets Mommy]

Next time, this kid just isn't going to even bother trying since he'll probably think he'll get a zero anyway. Why do a bunch of work and get a zero when you can do nothing and get a zero?

ITA.....While I think that simply cutting and pasting rather than paraphrasing may have been wrong, he did cite the source in his bibliography, even if it wasn't documented 100% properly....this IS 6th grade science, NOT HS english.

Also, he had previously handed in the paper, and the teacher asked for more...He did what he thought was right, in order to improve his grade. In the end, he wound up getting a zero. If he had simply said no, I'm leaving it as-is, he probably wouldn't have had an A, but he certainly wouldn't have had a Zero either.

I really think that in this situation, the teacher should have used it as an opportunity to teach about proper paraphrasing, citations, footnotes etc.

 

[Cool-Beans]

The zero is deserved. He cheated. If he didn't understand what plagiarism was before, he'll understand it now.

He gets a zero, he learns a lesson. Better he learn it now than in high school, when the grades start to matter.

It's 6th grade. It really isn't that big a deal.

 

[Lanshark]

Typically a teacher will give the benefit of the doubt to a straight A student.

Seems overboard

 

[Linzybrooke]

If he meant to plagarize and wanted to get away with it, then he wouldn't have included the source in his bibliography. However, he also should have asked for clarification from his teacher when told that he needed to add more information to that section of his project.

I don't think he deserves full credit, but I don't think he deserves a zero either.

 

[dimimi]

First, let us remember, that middle school grades don't matter for class rank/colleges, etc.

My kids have been taught since about 2nd grade, to paraphrase...NEVER to copy from a book. However,...

Our school uses rhubrics for almost every project. So, say there is a 100 point project. You can earn a 10 for example one. (You would earn 0 if you didn't have example 1) You can earn 10 for correct grammar. You earn 10 for correct information, etc.

This way, if you have poor spelling, you only can be penalized 10 points. The use of a rhubric keeps the student and the teacher focused on the purpose of the project.

In this situation, whatever the points are for the "background" information can earn a zero and the rest of the project graded on its own merit! Obviously your son didn't know he did anything wrong, if he did, he would NOT have been that source in his bibleography!

When our school does science fair projects, it's not graded and optional.

I think a fair thing could also be to have him redo his background information and learn how to do it with paraphrasing...after all...isn't that the purpose, TO TEACH THEM!!!

Good Luck!

 

[N.Bailey]

The zero is deserved. He cheated. If he didn't understand what plagiarism was before, he'll understand it now.

He gets a zero, he learns a lesson. Better he learn it now than in high school, when the grades start to matter.

It's 6th grade. It really isn't that big a deal.

Would you kindly inform the rest of us how this raises to the level of plagiarism if the boy stated where the information came from?

While I'm sure many people around here consider themselves to be highly educated, I think some of you might want to look this very basic word up on the dictionary.

 

[dimimi]

Also, he had previously handed in the paper, and the teacher asked for more...He did what he thought was right, in order to improve his grade. In the end, he wound up getting a zero. If he had simply said no, I'm leaving it as-is, he probably wouldn't have had an A, but he certainly wouldn't have had a Zero either.

QUOTE]


This is an excellent point!

 

[famofsix]

It is true the student failed to properly cite the material and put it in quotes. However, the rubric should have a place where this takes X points off not 100points off.

 

[Cool-Beans]

Would you kindly inform the rest of us how this raises to the level of plagiarism if the boy stated where the information came from?

While I'm sure many people around here consider themselves to be highly educated, I think some of you might want to look this very basic word up on the dictionary.

I know the meaning of the word. Even if he lists the source, it is still cheating.

If you think that listing the source means you can put their words, verbatim, into your paper (or project) then maybe you need to look into it.

ETA: I should probably say that if he quoted it and cited it correctly - worked it into his paper/project in an approved manner - then it wouldn't be considered cheating. But the way he did it, it was. So, he takes a zero. Big whup. It's 6th grade! It's the right time to learn the lesson. And there is nothing wrong with screwing up, getting penalized and learning a lesson in 6th grade. I don't know why so many people think it is a terrible thing.

 

[basas]

I know the meaning of the word. Even if he lists the source, it is still cheating.

If you think that listing the source means you can put their words, verbatim, into your paper (or project) then maybe you need to look into it.

Those who think you can copy and paste half the paper and still get 50% need to look into it too.

 

[N.Bailey]

I know the meaning of the word. Even if he lists the source, it is still cheating.

If you think that listing the source means you can put their words, verbatim, into your paper (or project) then maybe you need to look into it.

ETA: I should probably say that if he quoted it and cited it correctly - worked it into his paper/project in an approved manner - then it wouldn't be considered cheating. But the way he did it, it was. So, he takes a zero. Big whup. It's 6th grade! It's the right time to learn the lesson. And there is nothing wrong with screwing up, getting penalized and learning a lesson in 6th grade. I don't know why so many people think it is a terrible thing.

I didn't take exception when you said cheating, I took exception with the fact that you and others are dubbing it, plagiarism (as is the school). Remember them quoting their zero tolerance policy?

 

[N.Bailey]

Those who think you can copy and paste half the paper and still get 50% need to look into it too.

Maybe you could point me to the thread number of the post that says this boy copy and pasted half of his project? TIA

 

[Cool-Beans]

I didn't take exception when you said cheating, I took exception with the fact that you and others are dubbing it, plagiarism (as is the school). Remember them quoting their zero tolerance policy?

But it is plagiarism.

I don't think I understand you.

 

[Linzybrooke]

So, I've been thinking. This has nothing to do with cheating/plagarizing, etc., but is instead dealing with grading in general.

This is my first year teaching, and we are encouraged to use a rubric for as many assignments as possible so that if a parent or student has a question about their grade we can show them the rubric and go over the scoring with them. For the teacher not to show you the rubric there is something wrong. To me it says that either the teacher didn't use one, or that the rubric was unclear and open to the teachers personal feelings.

Also, I have to submit lesson plans to my principle online before the week begins. This is how my administrator keeps abreast of what I am teaching, and can hold me accountable for teaching the standards in my subject matter. But, because they are online, he can also print the in the instance that a parent inquires about a project. For the principle to tell you that he will just take the word of the teacher as fact and not check her lesson plans to ensure that she has actually taught the subject matter really raises a red flag for me.

 

[N.Bailey]

But it is plagiarism.

I don't think I understand you.

To be plagiarism, the boy would have to be trying to pass it off as his own. He did no such thing.

 

[basas]

Maybe you could point me to the thread number of the post that says this boy copy and pasted half of his project? TIA

I never said that this boy copied exactly half the project. I was talking about these:

Here's my suggestion for the new grade. Calculate the % of his paper that was "plagiarized". Subtract that right off the top pf the grade (say, 10% of the paper was supposed to be in quotes and it wasn't), then grade the paper from there. So maybe now, the max grade is only a 90% instead of 100, but at least the kid isn't getting a ZERO! The zero is WAY too harsh.

Our school uses rhubrics for almost every project. So, say there is a 100 point project. You can earn a 10 for example one. (You would earn 0 if you didn't have example 1) You can earn 10 for correct grammar. You earn 10 for correct information, etc.

This way, if you have poor spelling, you only can be penalized 10 points. The use of a rhubric keeps the student and the teacher focused on the purpose of the project.

The OP clearly states “Our school is K-12 and the school handbook states that there is a zero tolerance policy for plagiarism”. From what I understand, this means that you don’t get 10/10 (out of 100 total) on a rubric for “not plagiarizing”, and 0/10 (90/100) for plagiarizing. Similarly, if you only plagiarize one quarter of the paper you don’t start at a 75. Any plagiarism= automatic zero.

To be plagiarism, the boy would have to be trying to pass it off as his own. He did no such thing.

Yes he did. There were no quotes around whatever he wrote. In other words, he passed off material copy and pasted from a book as his own work (he is supposed to be writing the report so anything not quoted or footnoted is assumed to be his) Citing the source in the bibliography doesn’t cut it, for how is someone grading the assignment supposed to know what is your work, and what isn’t if all you have to do is throw it into the bibliography? Sources at the back only indicate that you’ve looked at a particular source for ideas and knowledge, and possibly taken direct quotations from it (which would be properly cited). Citing at the back does not mean you can copy large sections of the source without indicating this as either a direct quote or as paraphrasing.

 

[Grand Canyon]

I am sure I am just too close to this to think rationally, but I keep coming back to the thought that how can a zero tolerance policy for plagiarism be equally applied to all students K-12. I am sure this just a legal argument. If a law is applied selectively than it is deemed discriminatory and struck down due to the 14th amendment Equal Protection Clause. My point in all this is no one would give a 1st grader a zero for plagiarism. If the policy can not be equally applied as written how can it be enforced? It needs to be changed to reflect different levels of understanding that comes with age. Plagiarism is not as black and white as say Guns and Drugs at school.
Thank you all for your thoughts
I have got to get this out of my system, it's affecting my work

 

[mickeysgal]

I would LOVE for someone to explain to me how this even begins to rise to the level of plagiarism? The child cited his sources. The teacher used the sources cited to check the child's work. He did not try to pass it off as his own, he simply didn't add the quotations and footnotes (which he didn't even know existed).

Exactly!

What this boils down to is that citation rules weren't taught. Listing sources were taught and the child used them. How can anyone with any glimmer of common sense hold a child accountable for something that hasn't been taught?

Is it really reasonable to assume that a 6th grader...again, a 6th grader... will know citation rules perfectly even IF they were taught? Isn't that the point of learning? Usually a new skill like this, just like a math skill, or handwriting, needs repetition to get the skill down pat. Is there no room to LEARN anymore? Here it is, a perfect opportunity for the child to actually learn from and correct his mistake and the teacher pulled the zero trigger.

While he may now know how to cite because he'll never forget this experience, the problem is he now will also not forget the over-the-top negativity that came with it. It's just sad.

OP, this is one of those times that a fight worth fighting. Good luck. Keep us posted.