6th grader gets 0 for plagiarism rant long

[mom2cinderella]

but there is a big difference between a student who is struggling to make sense of complex rules about citation vs. a student who is intentionally trying to pass off someone else's work as their own.

In 6th grade, with nothing to indicate this was covered and practiced, your son is being "made an example of" rather than being educated.

Totally agree on both points. The punishment was way too harsh.

Michele

 

[Grand Canyon]

I know the student and who got first place for her project. Our families are friends. Her mother (who is a teacher at the school) made sure her daughter quoted and cited in her paper. The mother told my wife she checked the paper. We will be 'researching' with other students this weekend. And with their approval citing our sources.

 

[tiggersmom2]

I'm so sorry to hear about this. This is a battle worth fighting and I would fight it tooth and nail. Good luck OP, please keep us updated.

 

[1rockinmamato2]

I do agree that partial credit should have been given.

I did look up the writing standards for your child's grade level in AZ (I believe that's where you're from?). Paraphrasing is taught in 5th and listing sources is taught in 6th. If these standards are not being taught, this is something to take up with administration. I would approach the teacher with this first, however.

Grade 5:

http://www.ade.state.az.us/standards/language-arts/writing/grade5.pdf

Concept 6: Research

Research writing is a process in which the writer identifies a topic or question to be answered. The writer locates and evaluates information about the topic or question, and then organizes, summarizes, and synthesizes the information into a finished product.

[FONT=Arial,Arial]PO 1. Paraphrase information from a variety of sources (e.g., Internet, reference materials). [/FONT]​

Grade 6:

http://www.ade.state.az.us/standards/language-arts/writing/grade6.pdf

Concept 6: Research
[FONT=Arial,Arial]Research writing is a process in which the writer identifies a topic or question to be answered. The writer locates and evaluates information about the topic or question, and then organizes, summarizes, and synthesizes the information into a finished product. [/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial,Arial]PO 1. Write a summary of information from sources (e.g. encyclopedias, websites, experts) that includes: [/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial,Arial]a. paraphrasing to convey ideas and details from the source [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial]b. [/FONT]main idea[FONT=Arial,Arial](s) and relevant details [/FONT]

PO 2. Write an informational report that includes:
[FONT=Arial,Arial]a. a focused topic [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial]b. appropriate facts and relevant details [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial]c. a logical sequence [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial]d. a concluding statement [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Arial]e. a list of sources used [/FONT]

 

[Aidensmom]

Sorry - ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Zero is deserved.

If everyone else completed the assignment correctly, I would not pursue it. The teachers and school board have more important issues than this.

6th grade is what, 11 years old? Do you know anyone that age? Really now, do you? If so, do you EXPECT them to know EVERYTHING? Children go to school to LEARN things, but it sounds by your post that they are expected to already know everything. Not knowing something at 11 years old is not "ignorance", it is normal 11 year old development. If you knew all that, then kudos to you for being extremely, extraordinarily gifted.

I think what was done was really harsh, especially as they were expected to be quoting things to back up their papers.

 

[famofsix]

The teacher needs to embrace the idea of a "teachable moment" since citation is a skill your child will need throughout his educational career.

 

[Grand Canyon]

I do agree that partial credit should have been given.

I did look up the writing standards for your child's grade level in AZ (I believe that's where you're from?). Paraphrasing is taught in 5th and listing sources is taught in 6th.


[FONT=Arial,Arial]e. a list of sources used [/FONT]

He did list his source in the Bibliography - which is how his teacher looked up the information.

 

[Wishing on a star]

How can it be considered plagiarism if he did indeed list the source in the bibliography?

How awful for a teacher to do this to a 6th grade student who worked so hard....

 

[Sandy321]

The teacher needs to embrace the idea of a "teachable moment" since citation is a skill your child will need throughout his educational career.

I agree and I pulled this quote from the OP

He had originally turned in work completely in his own words but his teacher gave it back and said it wasn't enough. He did list his source in his bibliography

The teacher handed it back - that is when the teacher needed to explain cite your source - and when the student handed it back in logically a teacher that "edited" the paper in the first place should go directly to the questionable background, and at that time say "is this your own words" IF the student says yes, then you can somehow suggest the student plagerized then haul them off to "zero" and say nananana I caught you cheating!! (seriously I get the impression this teacher has it in for your child since the parents are so involved)

this was handled wrong, and its growing out of hand - you have to stand up for your child, but dont be surprised if the answer is no - you have to help your child through this - and taking it to the next level is a way of defending your child, to advocate for him!

(my son got an F in speech class in high school - he fainted in the middle of his speech - turns out he had a temp of 102 and mono - the teacher said there was nothing he could do, my son did a horrible job on that speech and refused to let my son take a make up!! I fought it, and lost, everyone said "their hands were tied" RIDICULOUS!)

so in the end, grades dont matter - does your sons teacher really want to lose the respect of your son, you as parents, and all the parents in the class that will also side with you?

somebody else made mention of how easy it is to make copyright infringement - esp in schools, esp in regards to teachers and the technology - music for instance, movies/dvd's shown in the classroom - that may have changed, but there was a time when our school told us we could not show anything unless it came from the school library!

 

[famofsix]

because your son has a biblio it shows he has some understanding of the process. When the teacher gave back his background knowledge paper and said it was not enough an extension should have been made to tell him what was missing. Perhaps if he had handed in the project with the original work that was rejected he would have received a sufficent grade.

A zero is harsh in my opinion but I think perhaps your son misunderstood what was expected when his own words were handed back to him and rejected.

 

[tiggersmom2]

How can it be considered plagiarism if he did indeed list the source in the bibliography?

How awful for a teacher to do this to a 6th grade student who worked so hard....

I don't call that a "teacher"...but rather a "control freak, let's bring this A student down and show him "everybody hurts" and I am in charge" kind of ***** woman.

 

[N.Bailey]

snip
[FONT=Arial,Arial]e. a list of sources used [/FONT]

The child did list the sources, but he didn't include quotation and footnotes.

 

[1rockinmamato2]

He did list his source in the Bibliography - which is how his teacher looked up the information.

Sorry, it's late, I just finished some grueling paperwork so my mind is mush and I misunderread (heehee) what you said. Then what's that teacher's problem?

 

[yeartolate]

My gut feeling is that it is way too harsh.

Without seeing the report it is difficult to say. If the bulk of the info was his, and it was truly just background, it seems partial credit is certainly due.

On the bright side. I will bet your child will no know how to formally cite his references. Some of my best academic successes stemed from having a few brutal teachers. My 13 year old son has one of the brutal ones now, HE may not have the best grades this go around, but he is learning to take hits and how to benefit from them.

 

[Grand Canyon]

My gut feeling is that it is way too harsh.

On the bright side. I will bet your child will no know how to formally cite his references. Some of my best academic successes stemed from having a few brutal teachers. My 13 year old son has one of the brutal ones now, HE may not have the best grades this go around, but he is learning to take hits and how to benefit from them.

So true. And what we are repeatedly telling our son - that it's better to learn this now than in high school or college.

To clarify: when he originally turned in his report, what the teacher wrote on it was that she wanted more background information - not more citing or quotations. That wasn't mentioned at all. Most of what he wrote at that time was his own general knowledge. (Science and math are his strong subjects). The material he cut and pasted then listed in his bibliography was not properly quotated and footnoted. That's where the charge of plagiarism came from.

 

[DemonLlama]

Then what's that teacher's problem?

Just listing a source in a bibliography without indicating which portions of that source were directly quoted (through the use of quotation marks around language/sentences not his own) is plagiarism.

But without repeated practice and opportunities to correct errors, especially in the 6th grade, it's a case of plagiarism that smacks of a witch hunt.

 

[Biscuitsmom31]

Your son is being used as an example. I wonder how many other kids did the exact same thing and the teacher didn't go hunting the internet in an effort to catch them.

If he copied a portion of his project then he should be counted off for that portion - not the entire project. I have an 11 year old son and I bet he has no clue about proper citing.

 

[ksjayhawks]

If your ds originally turned in work in his own words and the teacher handed it back saying it wasn't enough, why didn't he just add to what he had already done, but do it in his own words? Did he completely replace his words with the cut and paste or did he add it to what he already had?

If he just replaced his words with the cut and paste, then that is plagarism. If he added it to his own words, he might deserve a lowered grade but I would think it should not be a zero.

Kids in ds's elementary school were told from 4th grade on "not to just copy from the (book, encyclopedia, etc) but to read it and put it in their own words". I would imagine that is done in most elementary schools. Did you ask your son if he has heard this before?

Is this one project worth so many points that it will dramatically lower his grade or cause him to fail? What about all of the other work for the quarter? What would his quarter grade be? If he doesn't make the all A honor roll once, it will not be the end of the world. It will hurt for awhile, yes, but he will get over it.

Citation is taught before high school, at least in our school system. DS was taught a basic form of it in 5th and 6th grades for use in reports that they did, then in 7th grade they had handouts on citations to use with their work.

I am sorry that this happened to your son, but it could turn out to be a valuable lesson for him. Better to learn it in 6th grade than have it happen in high school or college.

I would suggest talking again with the teacher and principal together about this before you take it any higher. You need to be careful with this as you don't want the other kids teasing your son about "his daddy getting him a better grade". That would be worse for him than the lowered grade.

 

[shortbun]

My son is in 6th grade. He is working on his first long paper, 5-8 pages. He has been aware of paraphrasing and or using quotes since 3rd grade but until this assignment hasn't needed to use the quotations. This will be his first official bibliography although he's cited sources in the past. I would be livid if his teacher didn't use the opportunity to 'teach' in a similar situation by marking the paper with quotations, instructing the student to redo it with indentation or something similar. We must keep students moving forward rather than turning them off on education at this age. The teacher should reconsider their career, imho. Perhaps something in professional editing where no human contact is needed.
Sorry for your son. Assure him that he's doing fine and that he's a great kid and student.

 

[tiggersmom2]

My son is in 6th grade. He is working on his first long paper, 5-8 pages. He has been aware of paraphrasing and or using quotes since 3rd grade but until this assignment hasn't needed to use the quotations. This will be his first official bibliography although he's cited sources in the past. I would be livid if his teacher didn't use the opportunity to 'teach' in a similar situation by marking the paper with quotations, instructing the student to redo it with indentation or something similar. We must keep students moving forward rather than turning them off on education at this age. The teacher should reconsider their career, imho. Perhaps something in professional editing where no human contact is needed.
Sorry for your son. Assure him that he's doing fine and that he's a great kid and student.

I agree with you wholeheartedly!!! I can't imagine any rational person thinking it was "ok" to give this child a zero......