5 spending diaries - interesting article

[NotUrsula]

For those who don't know about the Upper East/West Side preschool admissions wars, this might shed some light: http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=1915973&page=1

Or this one, for a local perspective: http://www.nysun.com/article/39063

Or this profile of the 92nd St. Y preschool in an education press article: http://www.educationupdate.com/archives/2005/Dec/html/spot-92ndsty.htm

I once did some consulting work for the 92nd Street Y. It's not like any other YM-YWHA in the country. Among other things, there is a regular schedule of classical performances there that is only a tiny notch below what you would find at Lincoln Center. The preschool has a large staff, and while I'm not absolutely sure of it, I think that every teacher there has a master's in ECE.

 

[disneysteve]

Very interesting articles NotUrsula. Thanks for posting them.

 

[YachtClubWoman]

Manhattan could just as well be a foreign country for how different the culture is when compared to the vast majority of the rest of the US. Life is truly different there (for better or worse).
.

this was going to be my point - Manhattan and the midwest cannot be compared as "apples to apples"

 

[Hedy]

this was going to be my point - Manhattan and the midwest cannot be compared as "apples to apples"

Seriously, while I think a lot of activities can be viewed as universal (my coworkers think I come from some strange lunch-bringing planet), Manhattan is it's own brand of crazy.

 

[disneysteve]

Manhattan is it's own brand of crazy.

But we mean that lovingly to all you New Yorkers!

I love visiting New York but I don't think I could ever live there.

 

[Hedy]

But we mean that lovingly to all you New Yorkers!

I love visiting New York but I don't think I could ever live there.

Agreed. DM is from the city (Queens) but I could never live there, but I adore visiting.

 

[perdidobay]

What gets me is that the 1M couple have about 1K in monthly car costs, but they don't ever seem to use it based on all the cab fares. Is that typical for a New Yorker with a car???

I'm just glad I don't live in NYC (or anywhere else with that many people)

 

[disneysteve]

What gets me is that the 1M couple have about 1K in monthly car costs, but they don't ever seem to use it based on all the cab fares. Is that typical for a New Yorker with a car???

Yes. Very typical. One of my college roommates was from Queens. He had a car and rented a garage space for it (about 2 blocks from his house). He was paying something like $400/month for the space, and that was in the late 1980s. I'm sure the same space today is twice that. So just parking can be hundreds of dollars and that doesn't count gas, insurance, parking when you drive somewhere else, maintenance and car payments.

That's why so few New Yorkers own cars.

 

[ladysoleil]

Another interesting thing is which grocery stores which people chose to shop at. The "poorer" people went to the tonier ones. I don't think of Gristede's as a supermarket, it's really more a gourmet store, IMO. Groceries in general *are* more expensive in NYC, especially in Manhattan; the stores tend to carry only small sizes of most products, because people are carrying the groceries home on foot. (For example, I doubt very many Manhattan grocery stores actually stock 24-pks of soft drinks or 10-lb sacks of apples.) A lot of NY'ers I know rent/borrow a car once a month and drive out to the suburbs to stock up on staples -- which is only a workable system if they actually have space in their apt. to store the stuff.

I don't know about the foofy factor- it depends. Generally, due to the having to schlep things factor, you go to the closest store.

And when I was living in Manhattan, Gristedes were everywhere. They may be nicer stores uptown, but I wouldn't term it a "gourmet" store, I'd call it a filthy bodega at best, with a crappy selection and free vermin with your can of tuna, at least at the location I was stuck shopping at. (Not kidding. Went to buy a can of tuna there once and my hand landed on the glue trap on the shelf behind the tuna fish. The trap was...occupied.)

After that, I sucked it up and hauled my granny cart the 10 blocks to the Food Emporium by Union Square. Still obscenely overpriced, but at least not obviously vermin infested.

One of the other things people are curious about is the amount of eating out. I cooked a lot when I lived there, but I was considered a rather odd duck. Groceries are expensive and cheap takeout/interesting food is everywhere. Sometimes it actually was cheaper to eat a simple meal out than it was to round up the ingredients to cook it. Factor in the hassle of cooking in a kitchenette, and most people say "forget it".

I do keep a running jot down list of my spending, so for fun I may post mine at the end of this week.

 

[NotUrsula]

What gets me is that the 1M couple have about 1K in monthly car costs, but they don't ever seem to use it based on all the cab fares. Is that typical for a New Yorker with a car???

For that part of Manhattan, I'd say yes. Personal cars have a tendency to stay garaged except when driven out of the city on weekends. People who live in the other boroughs are more likely to drive personal cars fairly often, though seldom into Manhattan, because, again, parking in Manhattan is prohibitively expensive.

IME, most people who live in Manhattan rent cars when they need them, that is, if they have a license. (A fairly large number of native NY'ers don't know how to drive or don't have a valid DL.) It's generally just too expensive to pay to park a car long-term, not to mention the cost of insuring it.

 

[SleepyatDVC]

What gets me is that the 1M couple have about 1K in monthly car costs, but they don't ever seem to use it based on all the cab fares. Is that typical for a New Yorker with a car???

I'm just glad I don't live in NYC (or anywhere else with that many people)

Ahhhh... but the car is for trips OUTSIDE the city! MOST NYCers don't use their cars WITHIN the city at least on a day to day basis. Parking is a KILLER.

If one DOES drive into or in the city and chooses to look for free or metered parking, we have to add 30-45 minutes to our schedule. So, if the trip is 15 minutes by car, then we have to leave 45-60 minutes prior. Lol.

If you do decide to pay for parking, midtown parking is even crazier - around $15-$20 for 1/2 hour! Add an additional 20% penalty - ummm, I mean taxes to the parking tab. I do think think there is a maximum daily rate of around $48.

Subway or cab is DEFINITELY quickier and less expensive within the city. Even if you had $$ to blow for parking, it takes TIME for the attendent to get your car, then you drive in traffic, then you have to find a parking garage that isn't full, then you wait for the parking attendent to take your car and give you a ticket, THEN you still probably have to walk 3 blocks to your meeting because who in the world is ever lucky enough to find a garage so close by?

Monthly parking rates in the city RIVAL monthly housing rates in other parts of the country. It costs many Manhattanites about $550 to $900 just to PARK their cars in a garage. Not using a garage means you have to move your car every single day because of street cleaning. Many areas do not permit street parking during business hours so you might even have to move your car several zip codes! Lol!

We're up in Bronx so we are lucky that we only have to pay $170 per month to garage our car and it is worth every single penny. We use to park on the street and I shudder in memory of having to move it every day, trying to find parking after an evening out, getting covered in snow, and then totally snowed in when the street plows came through. Eeekkk.

 

[NotUrsula]

It's been a while since I lived in NYC, and I just checked up on Gristede's. You're right--they have apparently gone downhill since they expanded widely. In my day they were not all over town, and were very much an uptown status store. My bad for using an out-of-date judgement. (My friends and I don't discuss grocery store reputations often enough, I guess.)

I also agree about the eating out--when your entire kitchen fits inside a small closet, cooking in a serious way can be a tad difficult. (The development guy in the story did seem to be drinking a disproportionate number of his meals.)

 

[EthansMom]

Wow, the Grad Student's spending was outrageous! He spends more per month on cable and rent than the guy making $54k and more on his gym membership than the person making $150k... it must be nice having parents who are willing to pay the bills.

The guy who makes $54,000 a year looks like he's spending pretty much every dime he makes, but at least he's not doing it on Mommy and Daddy's back. He could be doing a lot better if he'd cut down on the alcoholic drinks and cigarrettes.

 

[SleepyatDVC]

Thanks for the link to the article Disneysteve. Very interesting. I was a bit disappointed over their spending habits but NOT surprised.

When DH was at his last job at a small company, he was the only one to brown bag lunch. He likes to work through lunch so he ate at his desk. It was usually a cold lunch because his big boss didn't like the "smell" of food heating up in the microwave - so there was NO microwave. Everyone else usually ate OUT of the office - probably at $7-$10 a pop.

At his new job, DH now has lots of co-workers more his age with similar interests. Most of his dept. comes in early and stays late and works hard. Their only break is lunch. A group of them usually have lunch out at least once a week and they take out the rest of the week. They also go out for drinks after work on Fridays about once every 6 weeks.

Let's just say that DH has been spending quite a LOT of cash on lunch and coffee since he started his new job about 8 months ago. EVERYONE in his office does. I have talked to him about it so that he can be more conscious of the $$ flowing out. But this new job came with a 30% salary increase over his old one and he just got an 8% raise after his review. So... I cut him some slack on his extra "latte factor." He does works extremely hard with extremely long hours most days so food has become an outlet.

He did decide to cut down on the lunches and maybe brown bag a few days but definitely wants to keep the lunch out once a week at around $15-$20 pp.

He has gotten quite close with some of his co-workers and they seem to talk about a lot of personal stuff. They talk about how much they pay in rent and other spending habits. It does seem that the folks that live IN Manhattan seem to spend a lot more in eating out and cab fare. Some live close enough to walk but still cab it in the morning to work, although, they do walk home in the evening.

Even among co-workers in the same company, there is a definite difference in life style between those that live IN the city and those that live in the suburbs.

I also read the other articles linked on the bottom. I found the article about the man who earned $676 bi-weekly very interesting. It really is really hard to live in NY and not earn enough money. I thought he blew a lot of his money (sleeping at a movie?) but understand that it becomes a vicious cycle after a while to some people where making a real change seems unattainable so they don't even try, they just survive from day to day, pay check to pay check.

He's NEVER gonna be able to rent an apartment on his own. Even if he scrapes up the $$ for the 1st month's rent and one month's security deposit, he not be able to afford rent of $700-$900 per month, Since he will probably never have such a large lump sum ($676 @ paycheck), the rent money will be gone before the 2nd check and the rent will go unpaid and he will eventually get evicted (maybe after 5-6 months of rent free living) and then he will never be eligible to rent an apartment in the city ever again. Most if not all landlords will check housing court records for eviction proceedings against prospective tenants and if there ever was one they won't touch that tenant with a 10 foot pole. Much worse than bad credit or bankruptcy (although those are bad too) Hard for someone who actually are really trying to turn things around financially.

 

[Genie600]

Let me explain. This is Manhattan. The children have to be in the right pre-school so they can get accepted into the right kindergarten so they can get into the right prep school so they can get into the right college. If they are not in the right pre-school, you may as well call them failures at 3yo.

The Good Lord knew what He was doing when he placed me square in the South. I'd never make it among that kind of foolishness. Hmmm. Maybe that's why so many New Yorkers come down here for college; they missed preschool.

 

[katerkat]

One of the other things people are curious about is the amount of eating out. I cooked a lot when I lived there, but I was considered a rather odd duck. Groceries are expensive and cheap takeout/interesting food is everywhere. Sometimes it actually was cheaper to eat a simple meal out than it was to round up the ingredients to cook it. Factor in the hassle of cooking in a kitchenette, and most people say "forget it".

No kidding! My husband went to training and lived in a room with a microwave. His "dining out" expenses were four times as much as when we're together. 17 meals in 35 days charged to the credit card, God only knows how many he paid in cash. (On the upside, the grocery bill was down. ) Luckily the Air Force is reimbursing us way more than he spent, otherwise...let's just say his credit cards wouldn't be going on the next training mission.

 

[ladysoleil]

It's been a while since I lived in NYC, and I just checked up on Gristede's. You're right--they have apparently gone downhill since they expanded widely. In my day they were not all over town, and were very much an uptown status store. My bad for using an out-of-date judgement. (My friends and I don't discuss grocery store reputations often enough, I guess.)

I also agree about the eating out--when your entire kitchen fits inside a small closet, cooking in a serious way can be a tad difficult. (The development guy in the story did seem to be drinking a disproportionate number of his meals.)

From what I'm told, Gristedes used to be rather nice, now they're more along the line of Key Food or C-Town or other urban "supermarkets". I'd raise an eyebrow at people doing their grocery shopping at Dean & DeLuca or Citerella, but the big G has indeed gone way downhill, and I would argue that D'Ag isn't high end anymore either.

I cooked like mad in my closet kitchen- it can be done, I managed Thanksgiving dinner for 8 in a microkitchen, but it was tough!

I was very broke and did what I needed to do to live there. For perspective, I was bringing home about $27K at the time, and was single, with roommates. I didn't have much to live on. I would bring back as many non-perishable groceries as I could carry when I went to visit my folks in Jersey, and I admit a few times when I was super broke and the Shoprite was doing triple coupons, my roommate and I would take the train over to Jersey City with a grocery cart (yay 24 hour supermarket!), do a massive coupon run, and painfully lug the spoils back to our downtown apartment. I think we made money on that trip, actually, I was a coupon fiend in the days. Those are things that truthfully, almost no one would bother to do.

The drinking- yeah, I have to say that I'm frugal and a light drinker and I even get hit with that, in my line of work, going out for drinks after work is common and something that you just are expected to do, on your own dime. Meeting friends for coffee/drinks adds up fast, too (remember- a lot of people don't have enough living space to entertain, so you're going out a lot). I probably spend $30 or so a week on that kind of thing, easily. Which sounds like an insane amount of money, but it's a *LOT* less than what other people I know spend, trust me.

I managed almost a year living in the city, and then I packed it in. I just couldn't afford to make ends meet without doing without both needs and wants, and realized I'd be able to live within my means if I could get somewhere with a lower cost of living. I was spending every dime I made and not even getting by. I don't regret doing it, living in NYC was a great experience and I loved it, but it was time to do other things. I still work here, so I get my fix daily anyway.

On the bright side, when I travel and people complain about how expensive food/drink/entertainment is, I usually just smile big because I'm getting a bargain!