4.5MPH ECVs -- Why?

[minnie mum]

With the adult obesity rate expected to hit 42% in just a decade we can all expect to see more ECVs crawling along....just think about the movie WALL-E.

Oh boy. This ought to take things to a whole new level.

 

[maxiesmom]

No, but as they are private property, they could. There are lots of ways that a basic safety rules "test" could be administered before someone is allowed to operate a motor vehicle inside a park; it would only take a few minutes and could be done online in advance, and/or with a kiosk system.

So are you really willing to pay even more for your trip to WDW so that they can hire, train, and put in place CMs to test guests on their ECV skills? With no real knowledge if it would even lower the accident rate, whatever that may be?

The hot coffee analogy is perfect. It goes to show how broken our legal system is, when you have to warn someone that hot coffee may be hot. Again, no personal responsibility, but the desire to blame someone else for their own stupidity.

 

[heyitsmejosh]

im gonna get one and make some mods to it, get that baby up to 7 or 8 miles an hour... btw 4.5 isnt that fast thats like a light jog/power walk

 

[mistysue]

I think I am learning from this thread that my tread mill is broken. I've been jogging/running 20 minutes a day to go one mile. I wonder how far I can really go? I might be closer to running the Disney princess marathon than I thought.

 

[Mama Who]

No, but as they are private property, they could. There are lots of ways that a basic safety rules "test" could be administered before someone is allowed to operate a motor vehicle inside a park; it would only take a few minutes and could be done online in advance, and/or with a kiosk system.

Disney would prefer NOT to get their hineys sued off for discrimination against the disabled which is what would happen the first time they told someone who needs an ECV that they had failed the "test" for their necessary mobility equipment.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Firstly my son did not run off, he was holding my hand both times when he was hit by an ECV from behind. Children walk slow, too slow for some ECV operators, with their 9 kph machines that they use as battering rams.

I think you meant to say, "...too slow for two (out of hundreds of) ECV operators, with their machines that could possibly have the potential to travel at 7.24 kph, that I'm admittedly exaggerating when I call battering rams because I care more about my child..."

 

[kaytieeldr]

When I saw the title, I honestly thought this was going to be a thread complaining about how slow that is. I believe this is Round 3 of the ECV Battle this week.

Could you PM me a link to Round One, please? I've got this thread, obviously, and I'm guessing Round Two is the thread where the title was changed from "Got Run Over..." to "Got Run Into..." . But I'm missing a dispute. ER, thread. Thanks!

 

[kaytieeldr]

So true, stupid people who don't watch where they're walking or where they are pushing their strollers or are so busy talking on their cell phones they run into others , including people on ECV's. Or are so drunk on the booze they've brought in that they miss the bush they are peeing in or they get into fights. Frankley, I've seen more stupid behavior by the able bodied than by those on ECV's or wheelchairs. But, we're an easy target.

Hey, at 4.5 mph, we can quickly get out of the way of the drunks missing the bush!!!

 

[kaytieeldr]

I blame the person who rented te ECV without learning how to use it, I blame the rental company who rented it to him without teaching him the simple basics and I blame wdw for knowingly allowing the ecvs to be dropped off at their hotel without the rental agency meeting the person renting it to make sure they understand how to use it.

Assuming you're correct and this person rented from one of the companies that drops off the ECVs at Bell Services instead of meeting the renter in person - what evidence would you have proving the person in question received the ECV at a WDW resort? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I really want to know.

 

[North of Mouse]

No, but as they are private property, they could. There are lots of ways that a basic safety rules "test" could be administered before someone is allowed to operate a motor vehicle inside a park; it would only take a few minutes and could be done online in advance, and/or with a kiosk system.

I don't want to deprive anyone of the use of an ECV if using one will enrich the person's park experience, but it *is* a heavy motor vehicle, and with the crowd levels that are just about always present in the parks these days, adding some safety procedures would seem prudent. IME, the folks who are most dangerous on an ECV are the same folks who would be dangerous behind the wheel of a car; folks who have vision and reaction-time issues that make it pretty unsafe for them to operate a motor vehicle of any kind. (And yes, I understand that the tiller of an ECV operates as a dead-man switch. That could make a difference in certain limited situations, I know, but situations like that are fairly few and far between.)

Wow, this would really make ECV riders happy - they were all up in arms a few weeks ago because Disney was handing out cautionary pamplets to ECV riders - thought every walker and stroller pusher should have gotten one also How much power and weight is behind a walker or stroller that bumps into a person? Not near the weight of most ECV's and riders for sure.

 

[deegack]

Assuming you're correct and this person rented from one of the companies that drops off the ECVs at Bell Services instead of meeting the renter in person - what evidence would you have proving the person in question received the ECV at a WDW resort? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I really want to know.

well it had advertisement from one of the companies that drop off from at the resorts and he said repeatedly that he didn't know how to use the damn thing (his words) and he didn't even want to use it. He also didn't know until I turned the speed down that it had a slow speed. Now since I was more concerned about my husband laying on the ground in pain and my daughter screaming crying because daddy was hurt, I didn't get to grill him about which resort he was staying at, but good chance it was a disney one.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Disney has rules and regulations about every thing. They can easily require the rental company to meet you or set the ECv to slow like they do for their in park rentals.

I'm relatively certain Disney can't control, mandate, demand, or require anything of an outside business.

If my dh has sustained a more severe injure or if my dd has hit (and she was inches away from being hit) you bet you butt I would be including both Disney and the rental company in the lawsuit as well as the driver of the ECv.

Interesting. On what grounds? I mean, I happen to know all about the tortoise/hare adjustment because I, well, saw it on the control panel and started turning it to see what effect it had. That scooter was dropped of at the hotel by the vendor. So can you sue companies because their clients aren't curious?

Never said someone had to have a test to use an ECv. Nope, simply said that the agency should be required to meet the person renting the ECv. Disney allows the agency to drop off and even store ECv on their property. At that point they become involved in the transaction.

Okay, so what about the guests who rent ECVs from outside companies but who aren't staying onsite? Or who started their trip offsite and move to a Disney resort? Or who borrow one from a service agency (KofC, Elks) or rent one near home?

Genuinely, I'm not asking to be difficult. I have the same questions for other posters who've offered suggestions.

No, but as they are private property, they could. There are lots of ways that a basic safety rules "test" could be administered before someone is allowed to operate a motor vehicle inside a park; it would only take a few minutes and could be done online in advance, and/or with a kiosk system.

Honestly? I could pass a test on almost anything (I'm tempted to take the GRE just to prove I'm right ), but that doesn't necessarily mean I'd succeed at the actual activity. Plus, I'm sure there's something in the ADA that prohibits "proving" one has the ability to operate any mobility assistance device.

And I'm not sure, since ECVs are (mostly) battery operated, they're considered motor vehicles.

 

[M-I-C-K-E-Y]

You do realize that at 4 1/2 miles per hour is a 13 min 33 second mile. That is not fast. The average walking speed is not 2 miles per hour it is 3.1 miles per hour so going 4 1/2 miles per our is a fast walk.

Have to disagree. 2MPH would be an "average" time, when you consider mixed ages, fitness and other factors. I don't believe that I stated 2MPH was the average for able bodied men and women, age 18-32. What about younger and older persons, who would also factor into the average. With any group, you're really only as fast as the slowest walker...hard to argue against that fact.

3MPH is a very good average pace, and only power walkers or joggers are clipping out at 4.5MPH. Don't see a great deal of that at WDW, certainly not within the parks!

I also read the following:

To complete a marathon in six hours requires an average speed over the entire 26.2 miles of 4.4 miles per hour. Typical runners complete the marathon in times between 3 and 5 hours, for speeds of 5.25 to 8.75 miles per hour.

I'm standing by my OP - the 4.5MPH maximum speed is about one-half that of your average marathon pace.

 

[ForAandA]

Who cares? Seriously? Has anyone ever been to Hershey Park? HILLS! And Dh needs that power to get up them. How about the BLVD. of death, aka: Queens Blvd? In NYC, 8 lanes of homocide waiting to happen! You bet your sweet pippy DH guns it then.

Once again, who cares?

 

[deegack]

I'm relatively certain Disney can't control, mandate, demand, or require anything of an outside business.
Interesting. On what grounds? I mean, I happen to know all about the tortoise/hare adjustment because I, well, saw it on the control panel and started turning it to see what effect it had. That scooter was dropped of at the hotel by the vendor. So can you sue companies because their clients aren't curious?


Okay, so what about the guests who rent ECVs from outside companies but who aren't staying onsite? Or who started their trip offsite and move to a Disney resort? Or who borrow one from a service agency (KofC, Elks) or rent one near home?

Genuinely, I'm not asking to be difficult. I have the same questions for other posters who've offered suggestions.

Honestly? I could pass a test on almost anything (I'm tempted to take the GRE just to prove I'm right ), but that doesn't necessarily mean I'd succeed at the actual activity. Plus, I'm sure there's something in the ADA that prohibits "proving" one has the ability to operate any mobility assistance device.

And I'm not sure, since ECVs are (mostly) battery operated, they're considered motor vehicles.

It has nothing to do with being curious but has to do with negligence. It would be fairly easy to show that by dropping off a motorized vehicle to a person who may not have any knowledge how to use it and who has the intent on using it in a crowded theme park almost immediately, is negligent. Disney is a willing participant by allowing the companies to use their storage rooms and bell services. You don't meet the person renting the item, you don't get to have the item stored. (It would be stored when the customer drops it off at bell services when they leave). Disney is a private business and can prevent other private businesses from using their facilities. Is it perfect no, but it will severely cut down on the number of people driving around not knowing how to do simple things like turn the speed down.
I never said to give anyone a test, I said simply meet the person so they can ask questions. You show a person how to start, slow and stop. Turn and backup. ten minutes. They ask questions and you go about your business. How many stories have we heard of people running into things, people, off curbs, etc etc. How many of these incidents could be avoided if people knew the basics on how to operate the machine. Like I said at least one company does require people to meet with them to get their ecv.
Since there are cars that are primarily operated by batteries I don't think that can be a determining factor in if its a motorized vehicle.

 

[ttintagel]

Maybe they should have someone meet parents and teach them how to keep their kids from running up and down wheelchair ramps and climbing on the railings. They should also have camera companies come into the park and tell people how not to blind others by taking flash pictures on dark rides.

 

[kaytieeldr]

It has nothing to do with being curious but has to do with negligence. It would be fairly easy to show that by dropping off a motorized vehicle to a person who may not have any knowledge how to use it and who has the intent on using it in a crowded theme park almost immediately, is negligent.

I swear, I'm not arguing with you . How do you prove the bolded? You can't force a company to change the way it does business based on an occasional accident, especially when most of the time such encounters aren't the fault of the ECV operator? All the person has to say is, "Yes, I know how to operate it".

Disney is a private business and can prevent other private businesses from using their facilities. Is it perfect no, but it will severely cut down on the number of people driving around not knowing how to do simple things like turn the speed down.

Couple of things with this. First, it presumes or implies that all or most renters don't know how to operate an ECV, likely because of your literally rough encounter who didn't and who didn't want it. Plus, if Disney were going to restrict private businesses from using its facilities for storage, that would need to include the other equipment these companies rent as well as baby/kid supplies, and advance packages ordered by guests from a third party.

I never said to give anyone a test

No, you didn't. That was somebody else, and I apologize that my quoting wasn't clear.

I said simply meet the person so they can ask questions. You show a person how to start, slow and stop. Turn and backup. ten minutes. They ask questions and you go about your business.

Okay, so that's more intensive than what NotUrsula was suggesting. It sounds like you want these companies to entirely change the way they operate their businesses? It's one thing to drop off a half dozen ECVs at OKW, ten at Pop, seven at Port Orleans Riverside, four at CBR... all by 9 AM. One truck, one delivery person.

Those guests arrive throughout the day. Now you have to add personnel, schedule meetings, reschedule when the customer's plane is late or they get lost, travel back and forth between appointments... Four and a half hours of actual time, not counting extra questions, schedule fluctuations, or travel time. I think it's likely the companies expect they're renting to reasonable adults (probably one of the reasons the renter needs to at least 18).

How many stories have we heard of people running into things very few - even fewer than:, people surprisingly few given the number of ECVs and even less when you subtract the one's caused by the person on foot, off curbs, based on personal experience there is ZERO correlation between ECV operating knowledge/experience, and running off curbs - it's just like when you're walking and you don't expect a curb you fall off, etc etc. How many of these incidents could be avoided if people knew the basics on how to operate the machine.

I know more than the basics. I already knew how to operate an ECV, but the second time I rented one in Orlando it was from 'the company that delivers it to you in person' - because they show you how to break it down. But I was in DisneyLand for the first time ever, it was after dark, and I expected that, like WDW, the Hub "curbing" was just for effect but that it was actually flat. Nope. Fell sideways onto the street. Did I mention experienced ecv user?

As a PP indicated, nobody ever posts, "I wasn't hit (run over, run into, made toeless) by any ECVs" - even though that's probably the experience 99.99% of WDW visitors have.

 

[cm8]

I think I am learning from this thread that my tread mill is broken. I've been jogging/running 20 minutes a day to go one mile. I wonder how far I can really go? I might be closer to running the Disney princess marathon than I thought.

Wow, this would really make ECV riders happy - they were all up in arms a few weeks ago because Disney was handing out cautionary pamplets to ECV riders - thought every walker and stroller pusher should have gotten one also How much power and weight is behind a walker or stroller that bumps into a person? Not near the weight of most ECV's and riders for sure.

If they want to hand out pamphlets, they can start with walkers and people in strollers.Do you know how many people don't pay attention to where they are walking or what they are doing. It's like they have no sense to not walk in front of people's ECV or strollers.

Maybe they should have someone meet parents and teach them how to keep their kids from running up and down wheelchair ramps and climbing on the railings. They should also have camera companies come into the park and tell people how not to blind others by taking flash pictures on dark rides.

, but should we draw the line there, maybe they should give a class on how to be courteous to others in the park, how to behave in lines and how to clean up after yourself while in the parks and restrooms

I'm relatively certain Disney can't control, mandate, demand, or require anything of an outside business.

 

[appleorchard]

With the adult obesity rate expected to hit 42% in just a decade we can all expect to see more ECVs crawling along....just think about the movie WALL-E.

And this is the problem in a nutshell. People like you who assume that everyone who's overweight and on an ECV is on it because they're lazy. I'm overweight and never used an ECV-- until I tore a tendon in my foot and broke a bone. I fought it like crazy, just because of stereotypes like yours.

 

[reiella]

I'm relatively certain Disney can't control, mandate, demand, or require anything of an outside business.
Interesting. On what grounds? I mean, I happen to know all about the tortoise/hare adjustment because I, well, saw it on the control panel and started turning it to see what effect it had. That scooter was dropped of at the hotel by the vendor. So can you sue companies because their clients aren't curious?

You can sue folks for whatever reason, you could prolly even add some government agencies to the lawsuit on the presumption that they weren't doing their job properly. Doesn't mean it has legs though. Such overbroad suits are generally intended to get a settlement as opposed to actually being resolved by a court.

Honestly? I could pass a test on almost anything (I'm tempted to take the GRE just to prove I'm right ), but that doesn't necessarily mean I'd succeed at the actual activity. Plus, I'm sure there's something in the ADA that prohibits "proving" one has the ability to operate any mobility assistance device.

Yep, ADA has protections from requiring disabled persons to have their papers ready. Ableism is somewhat insidious. :/

To complete a marathon in six hours requires an average speed over the entire 26.2 miles of 4.4 miles per hour. Typical runners complete the marathon in times between 3 and 5 hours, for speeds of 5.25 to 8.75 miles per hour.

I'm standing by my OP - the 4.5MPH maximum speed is about one-half that of your average marathon pace.

Just to point out, Marathon run speed is actually fairly slow contrasted to sprint speeds . The classic 4 minute mile [not really average, but well known] puts you have 15mph, and that's still middle-distance. Bolt [hardly average, but an easier number to work with ] at the 100m comes in around 22mph.