240 Gators Caught at Disney World Over Last 10 Years (link)

[romitaz]

Can you provide a link to said estimates? Thanks.

Sorry. The first ones free. I gave the paper that shows where the article got its number. Do yourself a favor and look up the rest yourself. More knowledge is always a great thing.

 

[Ego831]

But yet it's Disneys fault according to some people that alligators exist there. Honestly I thought that number would be a lot higher. Statistically that could mean alligators could maybe be seen twice a month

I know this has been debated back and forth here - but I had to chime in to say that I really don't understand why YOU don't understand that people who haven't been brought up or lived in Florida we just don't "know" that there are alligators in those lakes?!?!?

We don't get news reports or see them on a regular basis locally (New York City) and after going to Disney at least once a year for the last 10 years - I have never seen one either when I have stayed on property (Boardwalk - which has a beach accross from it) or near any of the rides (as some flume ride videos show)

Living in the City - it is just something that we are not exposed to - we do bring our "local habits" like locking our stroller - which local people don't do - but I certainly NEVER thought there would be alligators in those lakes - just simply didn't enter my mind (or others that are also not native to Florida) - so try to put yourself in our mindset....

I am POSITIVE that Disney will be hit with a multi-million dollar lawsuit by the family - deservedly so - or that they will offer the family tons of money proactively with an out of court settlement, so that this does not draw more attention to their BLATANT lack of responsibility.

How there have been soooo many alligators captured over the years as mentioned and that they have not done "SOMETHING" (and a sign that says No Swimming does not meet that threshold) is just amazing for a company like Disney - I just find it INCREDIBLE?!?!

Guests have been reporting this to staff it seems like for years and because people like you (the local staff) - don't think that there is anything wrong - this was never dealt with appropriately!

Someone like Joshua D'Amaro (Head of Resorts Operations) should resign over this - this is UNEXCUSABLE!

I am POSITIVE they will settle out of court for millions - but that will never assuage this family's grief!

 

[lockedoutlogic]

The 13 footer that was removed at the beginning of 2015 would have been interesting to know he came from.

Well...

When a mommy gator and a daddy gator really love each other...

 

[rteetz]

I know this has been debated back and forth here - but I had to chime in to say that I really don't understand why YOU don't understand that people who haven't been brought up or lived in Florida we just don't "know" that there are alligators in those lakes?!?!?

We don't get news reports or see them on a regular basis locally (New York City) and after going to Disney at least once a year for the last 10 years - I have never seen one either when I have stayed on property (Boardwalk - which has a beach accross from it) or near any of the rides (as some flume ride videos show)

Living in the City - it is just something that we are not exposed to - we do bring our "local habits" like locking our stroller - which local people don't do - but I certainly NEVER thought there would be alligators in those lakes - just simply didn't enter my mind (or others that are also not native to Florida) - so try to put yourself in our mindset....

I am POSITIVE that Disney will be hit with a multi-million dollar lawsuit by the family - deservedly so - or that they will offer the family tons of money proactively with an out of court settlement, so that this does not draw more attention to their BLATANT lack of responsibility.

How there have been soooo many alligators captured over the years as mentioned and that they have not done "SOMETHING" (and a sign that says No Swimming does not meet that threshold) is just amazing for a company like Disney - I just find it INCREDIBLE?!?!

Guests have been reporting this to staff it seems like for years and because people like you (the local staff) - don't think that there is anything wrong - this was never dealt with appropriately!

Someone like Joshua D'Amaro (Head of Resorts Operations) should resign over this - this is UNEXCUSABLE!

I am POSITIVE they will settle out of court for millions - but that will never assuage this family's grief!

I think we can all agree at this point that Disney should've had signs saying alligators could be in the water. However I think the posters point was some people think it's Disneys fault that alligators get on property or can exist on property. It's Florida you simply cannot prevent alligators from being on property it's going to happen whether anyone wants it to or not. Disney has been for years actively removing gators from WDW property. Alligator attacks are very rare and I don't think this is Jashua D'Amaro's fault because it goes up higher than him, and Disney has never had signs saying there are gators in their 45 years in Florida. Mr. D'Amaro has not been with the company that long so it's not his fault, it's the previous executives fault if you want to blame who should've put signs up. But then again I don't believe blame should be placed here. There was an attack in the 1980s and as far as I know no Disney executives resigned during that attack either...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Only 240? I would think it would be more like one every other week...so that would be 275 or so.

People can now allow the blood flow to return to their cerebrum...to "remove" is to kill...and Disney has taken pride for many years to be a friend of nature, rather than an enemy of it...

Right now there are hundreds - maybe a thousand gators of various sizes in reedy creek.

Some live and die without ever being seen...some stay clear of people...some move on...very few are taken out.

As it should be.

I'll tell you this: if anyone is caught on camera feeding them...they should be escorted to the edge of the property and kindly asked to never come back.

That includes DVC members. Call it a "stupidity tax"

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I know this has been debated back and forth here - but I had to chime in to say that I really don't understand why YOU don't understand that people who haven't been brought up or lived in Florida we just don't "know" that there are alligators in those lakes?!?!?

We don't get news reports or see them on a regular basis locally (New York City) and after going to Disney at least once a year for the last 10 years - I have never seen one either when I have stayed on property (Boardwalk - which has a beach accross from it) or near any of the rides (as some flume ride videos show)

Living in the City - it is just something that we are not exposed to - we do bring our "local habits" like locking our stroller - which local people don't do - but I certainly NEVER thought there would be alligators in those lakes - just simply didn't enter my mind (or others that are also not native to Florida) - so try to put yourself in our mindset....

I am POSITIVE that Disney will be hit with a multi-million dollar lawsuit by the family - deservedly so - or that they will offer the family tons of money proactively with an out of court settlement, so that this does not draw more attention to their BLATANT lack of responsibility.

How there have been soooo many alligators captured over the years as mentioned and that they have not done "SOMETHING" (and a sign that says No Swimming does not meet that threshold) is just amazing for a company like Disney - I just find it INCREDIBLE?!?!

Guests have been reporting this to staff it seems like for years and because people like you (the local staff) - don't think that there is anything wrong - this was never dealt with appropriately!

Someone like Joshua D'Amaro (Head of Resorts Operations) should resign over this - this is UNEXCUSABLE!

I am POSITIVE they will settle out of court for millions - but that will never assuage this family's grief!

It's been a week and I've had a chance to rethink my "ignorance is not an excuse" stance...

While I concede that some people are clueless to alligators in Florida (not debating whether they should be)...I think this particular incident was caused as much by human error and even moreso by a series of coincidences than the fault of Disney.

So I guess that's a double down?

Disney has taken a hit for this...they have and will pay. I don't feel bad for them as this is classic "strategic" negligence Inside the Vatican...

But again...I can't support blame Disney or blame nature more than an equal share with the people involved.

And none of us want to discuss that...so perhaps it should just end?

 

[LeeAndRobin]

Sorry. The first ones free. I gave the paper that shows where the article got its number. Do yourself a favor and look up the rest yourself. More knowledge is always a great thing.

Extensive googling of the subject "Florida Alligator nest counts and egg estimates", "Florida alligator population stability", "Florida alligator population growth", "Florida alligator population statistics", and many variations brings up general studies, most of which are over 10 years old. Nowhere can I find year-to-year data. The only thing I can find is a general statement by FWC that the Fl alligator population is "stable and healthy".

If you know where the actual DATA is, I'd appreciate you sharing where it can be found. I'm pretty good at finding references on the net, but I've struck out on this subject.

 

[ParkHoppers]

Interesting that the number peaked in 2011 at 31 and had been in decline until last year when only 16 were caught.

Yes it is. Was this on purpose because it had been so long without an attack. Seems Disney has been cutting in a lot of other areas so it is possible gator removal was cut as well.

 

[PuppyJonathan]

I think we can all agree at this point that Disney should've had signs saying alligators could be in the water. However I think the posters point was some people think it's Disneys fault that alligators get on property or can exist on property. It's Florida you simply cannot prevent alligators from being on property it's going to happen whether anyone wants it to or not. Disney has been for years actively removing gators from WDW property. Alligator attacks are very rare and I don't think this is Jashua D'Amaro's fault because it goes up higher than him, and Disney has never had signs saying there are gators in their 45 years in Florida. Mr. D'Amaro has not been with the company that long so it's not his fault, it's the previous executives fault if you want to blame who should've put signs up. But then again I don't believe blame should be placed here. There was an attack in the 1980s and as far as I know no Disney executives resigned during that attack either...

You just took the words out of my mouth. The original post was in response to me. I live nowhere near gators but I've been to Florida so much that I'm aware of them. Why else would there be a Gatorland a couple miles away anyway if elsewise?

 

[romitaz]

Extensive googling of the subject "Florida Alligator nest counts and egg estimates", "Florida alligator population stability", "Florida alligator population growth", "Florida alligator population statistics", and many variations brings up general studies, most of which are over 10 years old. Nowhere can I find year-to-year data. The only thing I can find is a general statement by FWC that the Fl alligator population is "stable and healthy".

If you know where the actual DATA is, I'd appreciate you sharing where it can be found. I'm pretty good at finding references on the net, but I've struck out on this subject.

 

[romitaz]

Extensive googling of the subject "Florida Alligator nest counts and egg estimates", "Florida alligator population stability", "Florida alligator population growth", "Florida alligator population statistics", and many variations brings up general studies, most of which are over 10 years old. Nowhere can I find year-to-year data. The only thing I can find is a general statement by FWC that the Fl alligator population is "stable and healthy".

If you know where the actual DATA is, I'd appreciate you sharing where it can be found. I'm pretty good at finding references on the net, but I've struck out on this subject.

http://www.wec.ufl.edu/coop/research.php

http://m.myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/managed/alligator/data/

There is a HUGE wealth of data there. Give it a try. I've led you straight to the water. Whether you drink from it is your choice.

 

[ParkHoppers]

You just took the words out of my mouth. The original post was in response to me. I live nowhere near gators but I've been to Florida so much that I'm aware of them. Why else would there be a Gatorland a couple miles away anyway if elsewise?

Because you have been to Florida so many times you are not much different than a local as far as being aware of gators. I think that can be a big difference from a family with parents of a young age that have never been to Florida and their Disney trip is the first visit to the state. They might only research all things Disney for this first trip. I,m sorry but I just can't expect someone like that to know that gators are inside the Disney parks.

 

[sarah4770]

Yes it is. Was this on purpose because it had been so long without an attack. Seems Disney has been cutting in a lot of other areas so it is possible gator removal was cut as well.

They are not allowed to just go around killing alligators. They have to nuisance gators AND an immediate threat. The trappers come and get the ones who are not an immediate threat, and that doesnt cost Disney anything.

 

[ParkHoppers]

They are not allowed to just go around killing alligators. They have to nuisance gators AND an immediate threat. The trappers come and get the ones who are not an immediate threat, and that doesnt cost Disney anything.

I understand what you are saying but with some CM's call the gators pets and frankly not taking the possible threat seriously maybe the reporting of gators for removal had gone down.

 

[Accident]

I think there is also something to be said that disney has been doing this for several decades. It's not like this is the first years doing it. I'm sure the numbers way back when were much much higher and this is just keeping the levels down.

There is also guidelines, they can't just remove every gator so if the juvenile population is thriving or they don't appear to be posing a risk, they are still there. Even this event they only stayed on the 2 lakes looking for the gator that attacked and stopped when identified. Theres a lot more waterways and lakes on property than those 2.

And then these are FWC numbers. Disney can take care of eminent threat on their own, they can also hire a licensed trapper instead of calling it in. I doubt they do as that's spending money but at the same time there is keeping workers that are doing environmental studies safe and they've been doing an awful lot of them lately.

 

[NYUBwayBaby]

And then these are FWC numbers. Disney can take care of eminent threat on their own, they can also hire a licensed trapper instead of calling it in. I doubt they do as that's spending money but at the same time there is keeping workers that are doing environmental studies safe and they've been doing an awful lot of them lately.

I don't think Disney has to pay anything for the FWC trappers to trap anything, either. They get $30/gator from the state, plus the meat and skin and whatnot. There's no reason not to call them.

 

[Accident]

I don't think Disney has to pay anything for the FWC trappers to trap anything, either. They get $30/gator from the state, plus the meat and skin and whatnot. There's no reason not to call them.

agree'd but disney also said in all this that they have full time staff monitoring for this so I can't think of a more qualified person to monitor it than a trapper.

 

[Liljo22]

I think we can all agree at this point that Disney should've had signs saying alligators could be in the water. However I think the posters point was some people think it's Disneys fault that alligators get on property or can exist on property. It's Florida you simply cannot prevent alligators from being on property it's going to happen whether anyone wants it to or not. Disney has been for years actively removing gators from WDW property. Alligator attacks are very rare and I don't think this is Jashua D'Amaro's fault because it goes up higher than him, and Disney has never had signs saying there are gators in their 45 years in Florida. Mr. D'Amaro has not been with the company that long so it's not his fault, it's the previous executives fault if you want to blame who should've put signs up. But then again I don't believe blame should be placed here. There was an attack in the 1980s and as far as I know no Disney executives resigned during that attack either...

I 100% agree with this. Disney should have had signs up saying gators are in the lake but there are some on this board that say gators should never be allowed on the property. That is impossible. They pulled six out of the Seven Seas and I guarantee at least 6 more are already back in the lake.

 

[Liljo22]

I think there is also something to be said that disney has been doing this for several decades. It's not like this is the first years doing it. I'm sure the numbers way back when were much much higher and this is just keeping the levels down.

There is also guidelines, they can't just remove every gator so if the juvenile population is thriving or they don't appear to be posing a risk, they are still there. Even this event they only stayed on the 2 lakes looking for the gator that attacked and stopped when identified. Theres a lot more waterways and lakes on property than those 2.

And then these are FWC numbers. Disney can take care of eminent threat on their own, they can also hire a licensed trapper instead of calling it in. I doubt they do as that's spending money but at the same time there is keeping workers that are doing environmental studies safe and they've been doing an awful lot of them lately.

There are no for hire licensed trappers. FWC regulates all trappers and pays them directly. I would guess that there is a couple of local trappers Disney calls directly to handle and they report to the state when they get out there.

 

[minnie mum]

Seems Disney has been cutting in a lot of other areas so it is possible gator removal was cut as well.

Um, no, it wasn't

Because you have been to Florida so many times you are not much different than a local as far as being aware of gators. I think that can be a big difference from a family with parents of a young age that have never been to Florida and their Disney trip is the first visit to the state. .

I find it an illuminating example of the American education system that the average non Floridian American would have no idea that alligators were endemic to the state. And yet, from other threads on this subject, "foreigners" seem to know all about it. But Disney now seems to have solved the problem of poorly educated guests by posting large warning signs just about anywhere a guest might encounter a body of water. So that excuse, such as it is, is gone.

I understand what you are saying but with some CM's call the gators pets and frankly not taking the possible threat seriously maybe the reporting of gators for removal had gone down.

. Have you any proof that the number of nuisance reports have decreased in the last couple of years, or is this just more conjecture? What a CM might say to a guest to keep them from freaking out does not mean that he didn't then report the incident to a supervisor for further investigation. And simply seeing a gator does not necessarily mean that gator is automatically a nuisance gator that requires immediate action.